"Anyone ever tell you yer bad luck?"
"Those were my mother's dying words.."
-VEGAS VACATION

:D

I have real good teachers.. :D I simply go by what Russ stated.. and continued to state even when I pointed out, WITH FACTS, how utterly whacked and bullshit his claims are...

Trump himself supplies all the information against Trump.

Really?? Trump has given ALL the leaks to WaPoop et al???

Even the leaks that COMEY confessed to!???

He exposes himself as a fraud with almost every breathless tweet.

If all ya'all's accusations were JUST based on Trump's tweets, you would have a valid point..

You know the rest...

The simple *FACT* is Democrats have a HISTORY of using illegally obtained information to further their own Party agenda..

This is well-documented...

So, you will have to forgive me if I don't hysterically shed any tears because Candidate Trump MAY have availed himself some plays out of the Democrat Party playbook...

When ya'all make the SAME case against NOT-45 in the SAME manner than you make it against President Trump then....and ONLY then... will ya'all have a rational leg to stand on..

Not before...

Yes it is..

But what Russ is claiming is that the mere act of obtaining the information from a foreign "adversary" is illegal..

And THAT is bupkis.. His *ONLY*source for that claim is WaPoop..

I am also constrained to remind you that the vast majority of the information ya'all have against Trump is illegal obtained information..

According to Russ, that makes ya'all criminals.. :D

Well, that is the operative phrase, isn't it, Michale ...

.... as long as said information is legally obtained...

But as I have point out and no one has been able to refute..

NONE of ya'all care one whit about NOT-45 obtaining information from foreign "adversaries" for the purposes of opposition research...

Ya'all only care about it when Trump allegedly did it.

That totally and completely decimates your argument...

But allow me to lay your mind at ease...

It is *NOT* illegal to obtain information from ANYONE for the purposes of opposition research...

Unlike you, I can (and do) cite my authority for the claim..

" Limiting candidates' ability to expose their opponents' misbehavior would violate the First Amendment."
-Eugene Volokh
UCLA law professor
Leading Expert on the First Amendment

Now, you can either concede that you were wrong, you can continue to argue that your not or you can ignore this and hope I forget all about it.. :D

I am sure you are going to chose the latter... Just as I am sure you realize that there is absolutely NO CHANCE I will forget about it.. :D

I found where your problem was...

You fell into the same trap that JL and most everyone here falls into...

You think that because WaPoop says something, it MUST be factually accurate..

You are in error... As was JL when he made the same claim..

I am glad we finally got that settled.. :D

JL

Jesus h christ, Russ!! Just quote the damn thing next time!!

When people use the term "collusion" in the political realm, you can safely assume that they are defining it as "conspiring with a foreign adversary to influence or undermine an election" -- which is a crime. Junior's email shows that he crossed the line on conspiracy to commit election fraud or conspiracy to obtain information from a foreign adversary. I

No.. As usual, you DIDN'T address it..

You simply make the claim without ANY citation to back it up..

"If you can't back up what you claim, you're a lying troll"
-YOU

Further, even if you CAN back it up, that means that NOT-45 committed the EXACT same crime..

Right??

So, you lose either way...

Either you are a lying troll or you are a hypocrite...

This is EXACTLY why I request that people quit being lazy and just quote the relevant portion rather than just refer to a comment #...

[55] nypoet22 wrote:
NO FACTS whatsoever that prove ANYTHING...

JL

Kick went above and beyond in her explanation of this in comment [65]!

Veronica's a Dumbocrat Party tool and I wouldn't trust her if she said 'water is wet and ice is cold'...

Yer gonna have to do better than that..

It is not my job to prove your accusations are incorrect.

Really??? One would not know that by your responses to me.. :D

, then I see no evidence of them misusing donations for personal gains.

Of course you don't. Because, like with ANYTHING having to do with the Dumbocrat Party or being hysterically Anti-Trump, you ONLY see the evidence you WANT to see...

For example, you totally ignore Bubba's rape and sexual assault history and STILL support him and defend him..

How ANY LEO (or, in your case, associated with LEO) can do that is simply beyond me..

I did address this in our conversation found in Jr.'s Smoking Gun in [55]. Kick went above and beyond in her explanation of this in comment [65]!

How did the Clintons go from "dead broke" to making an estimated 300 MILLION DOLLARS in 16 years if they didn't benefit from their Foundation??

You can't..

It is not my job to prove your accusations are incorrect. You are making the allegations with no proof to support your charges. The Clinton Foundation is one of the better run non-profit charities in this country, and unless you have evidence that can show they bought portraits of themselves, paid for personal legal expenses, or bought the football helmet of an NFL player that they kept for themselves using foundation money, then I see no evidence of them misusing donations for personal gains.

And, LB as well... :D

And THAT is why she lost to President Trump..

Not some mythical Russian supernatural psyops or mythical phantom process where NOT-45 votes were denied the ability to vote...

NOT-45 was a crappy candidate who ran a crappy and incompetent campaign.. And THAT's why she lost..

And the people who saw that loss coming and KNEW that she was going to lose are the people who looked at ALL the facts (Me) and NOT the people who orgasm-ed over cherry picked polls and proudly & hysterically claimed that NOT-45 would win in a 50-state sweep (most of ya'all)....

"These are the facts of the case. And they are indisputable"
-Kevin Bacon, A FEW GOOD MEN

It doesn't take much to swing an election if this method is used in a highly targeted fashion with slightly varied forms of failure that achieve the same end goal of vote denial, think of it as the democratic version of a DOS attack, I wonder if they would call it a DOV attack. Such attacks would go largely unnoticed during the actual voting time-frame and would only be discovered as being successful after the attack.

Fine..

Do you have ANY facts that prove this happened??

No you do not..

All you have is a deluded desire to shift the blame from your Establishment crappy candidate...

You still have failed to answer my question as to how money given to the Clinton Foundation directly benefitted the Clintons.

And YOU still have failed to answer my question as to what law says that it's illegal to obtain information from a foreign "adversary"...

Once again, you demand from me what you refuse to do yourself...

Hypocrisy... Pure, blatant hypocrisy...

Further, I DID address your question..

How did the Clintons go from "dead broke" to making an estimated 300 MILLION DOLLARS in 16 years if they didn't benefit from their Foundation??

Answer me THAT...

You can't..

Whatever you have to tell yourself to sleep at night.. :D

I assure you, someone will do jail time.

Yea... And NOT-45 is going to win the election in a landslide 50-state sweep... :D

His violent actions and his violent impulse to impose his will on others is what clearly paints him as a Dumbocrat...

Funny how you don't have any problem with others here painting an entire group with the brush of a single scumbag, on MUCH LESS evidence, when that entire group are Trump supporters..

Yer hypocrisy is showing... :D

Balthasar,

I have to go with Michale on this one.. It's completely ridiculous to think that Russians could influence voters to poll one way, yet vote the opposite way. What you are talking about is akin to mind-control and that's just ridiculous. You're wrong on this one.
-Weigantians

Always do what I can to help out my fellow Weigantians.. :D

All this is in addition to Russia's other methods of attack, such as the hacking of the DNC and Clinton campaigns, the use of "bots" to target 'persuadable' voters on Facebook and other social media, and a disinformation campaign that planted "fake news" about Hillary all over the internet. One such bit of fake news is reported to have prompted Director Comey to give his now-infamous news conference about Clinton's emails. (7) It is not unreasonable to assume that such a massive and targeted campaign could have influenced the >2% of the vote that pushed Trump over the top.

How could that influence the voters but NOT influence the polls???

You see how utterly LAME and totally ILLOGICAL your position is..

You are claiming that Russia used supernatural PsyOps to push people totally against NOT-45 AT THE VOTING BOOTH but STILL have those EXACT same people completely support NOT-45 in the polls!!

Yer deluded, dood.... You are so desperate to pin NOT-45's dismal campaign on ANYTHING, you are grasping at filaments of straws...

You have absolutely NO FACTUAL evidence to support the claim that a SINGLE NOT-45 vote was changed to a Trump vote...

NOT-45 lost for one reason and one reason only.. She was an ESTABLISHMENT candidate in a clearly NON-ESTABLISHMENT election who run a crappy and incompetent campaign...

That's it...

You can delude yerself all you want and talk about mythical Russia PsyOps...

But the facts are clear..

And you can't handle the facts..

And, 7 years from now, Trump will STILL be your President...

Oh, don't kid yourself, we've got a clue. We've got lots of clues, and more are coming into evidence every day. It's raining clues, hallelujah. And when every one of those clues is deciphered, and every dot is connected, I assure you, someone will do jail time.

Typical.

We can't allow ourselves to be blasé about the goal of our foreign and domestic adversaries - it's to undermine the institution of voting in America to their benefit. Election Pearl Harbor has occurred. It is now our imminent duty to figure out and mobilize an effective response to save us all.

Joshua Salovich was charged with capital murder, meaning he could face the death penalty, and held without bail. Detectives testified in an initial court appearance that the 25-year-old boxer-in-training beat Bailey Salovich at maximum force with a bamboo rod, a cellphone cord and his hands.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/07/18/police-boxer-who-beat-girl-3-to-death-wanted-to-teach-her-this-was-tough-world.html

Dumbocrats.. :^/

Yea.. And you have a lot of support in email. :^/

When it comes to accusing people of saying things that they never said, you are damn right you are a fracking troll!!!

And ya'all do the exact same thing ALL the time..

"You don't START none, there wouldn't BE none"
-Will Smith, Independence Day

As for me, you can discuss the topic at hand or whatever other topic that you like; but the moment you start pointing to past events trying to compare them and calling me a hypocrite for not meeting the appropriate level of outrage that you think I should have displayed, you can go suck the baby carrot of the orange man-baby!

Facts must really have pissed ya off, Russ.. :D

Oh.. I missed that, what with all the completely irrelevant and self-serving crap you served up..

OK, so you admit you haven't a clue....

That's what I thought...

Re: 178..

siiggghhhhh

Explain EXACTLY how Russia influenced the election but did NOT influence the polls..

Provide facts..

No, YOU are the one accusing everyone else of flip flopping on their support of Donald Trump simply because he changed over to the Republican Party. So prove that we were Trump supporters at one time or apologize for lying.

It's simple.

Ya'all support ANYTHING and ANYONE Democrat...

Donald Trump at one time was a Democrat..

Ergo, you supported him..

You forgot to bring up the hacking of election registration verification system companies.

Many of the counties that saw major delays or suffered major issues also happened to be democratic leaning and used the electronic registration system verification. This resulted in delays as many places had to switch to the use of paper backups that had to be delivered.

This resulted in roles that were incomplete being used to verify voter roles causing many to cast votes provisionally, which in many places are not counted unless certain criteria are selected.

Another impact is that this also meant that people who did not have the time to wait to cast their vote or were to far back in the line to have an opportunity to vote were disenfranchised.

I find it interesting that the sole argument that keeps being raised is a demand for proof that a ballot was changed. The focus on the single aspect of ballot change and the continuous assertion that, that is what we are focused on is a convenient way to ignore the fact that in a complex informational war environment it is not about some nefarious scheme to "change " ballots, but rather more about the denial of votes for the candidate you are working against.

If we accept that ballot audit procedures are effectively being followed it would not be a winning method to change ballots to electronic votes.

The far more untraceable method to change the vote is targeted infrastructure attacks on the pre-ballot casting day of voting portion of the system, managed by unregulated private companies.

It doesn't take much to swing an election if this method is used in a highly targeted fashion with slightly varied forms of failure that achieve the same end goal of vote denial, think of it as the democratic version of a DOS attack, I wonder if they would call it a DOV attack. Such attacks would go largely unnoticed during the actual voting time-frame and would only be discovered as being successful after the attack.

Alas, I am probably preaching to the choir on this one. The intercept had a great starter article born out of the Winner leak that resulted in finding a stand alone article in an industry specific journal...

If i have time to find the bloody thing again I will post it, you would find it most illuminating...

A masterpiece and absolutely correct. Well done, sir! :)

Firstly, it's important to remember that, in the 'swing' states that gave the election to Trump, Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania - all states that went for Obama in 2012 - Trump won the popular vote by less than 2%, within the margin of error for most polls. Out of 120 million votes cast, the margins of victory in WI, MI and PA was less than 107,000, or 0.09%, so only one vote out of thousands had to be changed to shift the balance. Coincidentally, in all three states, Gary Johnson under-performed pre-election polls by about the same margin that Trump won by. (see cites 1,2, below).

Shortly after last year's election, J. Alex Halderman, a Professor of Computer Science at the University of Michigan wrote about one scenario, based on actual Russian election hacking that had happened in the Ukraine in 2014:

"First, the attackers would probe election offices well in advance in order to find ways to break into their computers. Closer to the election, when it was clear from polling data which states would have close electoral margins, the attackers might spread malware into voting machines in some of these states, rigging the machines to shift a few percent of the vote to favor their desired candidate. This malware would likely be designed to remain inactive during pre-election tests, do its dirty business during the election, then erase itself when the polls close. A skilled attacker’s work might leave no visible signs?—?though the country might be surprised when results in several close states were off from pre-election polls."(3)

He should know. Over a decade ago, while still a graduate student at Princeton, Halderman helped write a Research paper exposing security flaws in Diebold's AccuVote-TS voting machine, which is still in use today in 15 states, five of which (GA, DE, LA, NJ & SC) use the machines exclusively.(4,5)

To this date, none of the Secretaries of State in WI, MI or PA have allowed any forensic examination of voting machines used in the election, although I heard one expert recently say that, given the amount of time that has passed since the election, that avenue of investigation is likely moot.

We now know that cyber breaches of local and state elections systems was far more extensive than we'd previously suspected. There were phishing expeditions, and breaches of voter data in several states. In Illinois, more than 90% of the nearly 90,000 records stolen by Russian state actors contained drivers license numbers, and a quarter contained the last four digits of voters’ Social Security numbers, according to Ken Menzel, the General Counsel of the Illinois State Board of Elections. In another case, investigators found there had been a manipulation of voter data in a county database, but the alterations were discovered and rectified. A senior official from the Department of Homeland Security, Jeanette Manfra, testified to senate and house investigators that twenty-one states saw such intrusions last year. The Russian efforts against state and local databases were so widespread that top Obama administration cyber-security officials assumed that by Election Day Moscow’s agents had probed all 50 states. Michael Daniel, who led the White House effort to secure the vote against the Russian intrusions, said, “We had to assume that they actually tried to at least rattle the doorknobs on all 50." (6)

All this is in addition to Russia's other methods of attack, such as the hacking of the DNC and Clinton campaigns, the use of "bots" to target 'persuadable' voters on Facebook and other social media, and a disinformation campaign that planted "fake news" about Hillary all over the internet. One such bit of fake news is reported to have prompted Director Comey to give his now-infamous news conference about Clinton's emails. (7) It is not unreasonable to assume that such a massive and targeted campaign could have influenced the >2% of the vote that pushed Trump over the top.

How EXACTLY did they do it? We'll have to wait a little while more to learn that. In the meantime, Trump's White House is both denying Russia's role in the election, and simultaneously trying to gather ALL voter data into a single location at the White House. What could possibly go wrong with that?

Cites:

1. Election Forecasts 2016 FiveThirtyEight

CBS News poll: State of the race the day before Election Day CBS News Nov. 7, 2016

2. 2016 Presidential Election Results Politico

How Trump won the presidency with razor-thin margins in swing states By Tim Meko, Denise Lu and Lazaro Gamio, Washington Post Nov. 11, 2016

3. Want to Know if the Election was Hacked? Look at the Ballots J. Alex Halderman Nov 23, 2016

4. Good News For Russia: 15 States Use Easily Hackable Voting Machines by Jessica Schulberg at Huffpost 07/17/2017

5. Security Analysis of the Diebold AccuVote-TS Voting Machine, Ariel J. Feldman, J. Alex Halderman, and Edward W. Felten, Princeton Center for Information Technology Policy — September 13, 2006

6. Election Hackers Altered Voter Rolls, Stole Private Data, Officials Say by Massimo Calabresi, TIME online Jun 22, 2017

7.Comey influenced by bogus Russian document, report says Fox News, May 24, 2017

The USAToday article doesn't explain how Bill benefits from money donated to the foundation, it simply points out that Bill has business contracts with some of the donors. If Bill gets paid $3 million for his services and the foundation is given $500,000 that is not stipulated in the contract, how is that a conflict? Bill is NOT the President anymore!!!

No, YOU are the one accusing everyone else of flip flopping on their support of Donald Trump simply because he changed over to the Republican Party. So prove that we were Trump supporters at one time or apologize for lying.

A week or so ago, you made the comment that the Clinton's Russian connections should ALSO be investigated and condemned, just like Trump's alleged Russia connections are being investigated and condemned...

So, what can we conclude from these FACTS??

Yes, it is all that we talk about here at home. Just because I am not on here spewing off topic dribble like a busted sewage line in an attempt to shift the focus off your Shitler-wanna-be dreamboat the way that you do doesn't mean I don't discuss it in the proper circles. In fact, I just returned some Kebler Fudge Stripes cookies last week and made sure to put a note on it asking AG Sessions to look into the matter. I am sure he will get the note since I went through the proper channels for his kind.

You still have failed to answer my question as to how money given to the Clinton Foundation directly benefitted the Clintons.

President Prostitute Piss Partaker flat out lied to us saying it was outrageous to suggest that anyone from his campaign would have ever been willing to collude with Russia, despite knowing for weeks that his son, who he described as "high quality", had - at the very least- attempted to collude with the Russians. You are so incredibly patriotic for supporting the accused child rapist who wanted to create a internet security team with the same people accused of hacking and interfering with our elections.

What was it that Russ said?? If you can't back up your claims, you are nothing but a "lying troll". :D

When it comes to accusing people of saying things that they never said, you are damn right you are a fracking troll!!!

You want to attack everyone else's opinions while quickly claiming the arguments you make against others doesn't represent your own opinion. You just want to point out to others how hypocritical THEY are.

If anyone in here has asked you to do that for them, by all means go ahead and continue doing that for THEM!

As for me, you can discuss the topic at hand or whatever other topic that you like; but the moment you start pointing to past events trying to compare them and calling me a hypocrite for not meeting the appropriate level of outrage that you think I should have displayed, you can go suck the baby carrot of the orange man-baby!

On the first day of "Hire American" week, the Trump Administration announces a fairly brisk expansion of the H-2B visa program.

One of the Democrats said: "What if Obama did this?"
Then another Democrat said: "What if Hillary did this?"
The Republicans looked at each other and said: "What the ____!"'
Me? I stood up and said: "Winning!" and then ducked as all manner of things started flying toward my head.

Trump officials open border to 15,000 more foreign workers

The visas are for workers taking temporary jobs in the seafood, tourism, landscaping, construction and other seasonal industries — but not farm laborers.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/07/17/trump-officials-order-15000-new-visas-for-low-wage-workers/?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_wonk-visas-1120am%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.31a1e7980d29

Provide facts....

"That oughta clinch up their sphincters!"
-Rachael Phelps, MAJOR LEAGUE II

:D

Explain to me... EXACTLY... how did Russia influenced the election but NOT influence the polls???

Provide facts....

And THERE it is...

"And that's why it had to be, poison, right, Commander? 'Cause Lord knows, if you put a man with a serious coronary condition back on duty with a clean bill of health, and that man died from a heart related incident, you'd have a lot to answer for, wouldn't you, doctor?"
-Tom Cruise, A FEW GOOD MEN

Ya'all simply CANNOT believe that NOT-45 could run such a horrible campaign that she would get DEVASTATED by President Trump...

That's why it HAS to be Russia.. Because yer frail egos simply cannot handle the FACTS...

You have absolutely NO FACTS that even HINT that a single NOT-45 vote was changed to a Trump vote...

This is fact...

They didn't take Russia into account. Couldn't have - no one in the polling world knew at the time about Moscow's elaborate intervention. We still don't know the full extent of it. But logically, when reputable pollsters all get it as wrong as they did, it's reasonable to assume that they've all missed something very important - like Russia.

Yea.. AKA a "shellacking"... It's what the Dumbocrats have experienced :D

And if you don't stop repeating that phrase to me, you're a complete asshole. Got it the first time.

Don't blame me.. Russ made the rule.. I am just insuring that the Dumbocrats here abide by it..

If ya don't like it, whine to him.. I don't give a rat's ass.... :D

No.. ILLEGAL MEXICAN immigration specifically..

But you have, inadvertently, proven an ongoing point regarding ya'all's Party slavery....

You can't let ANY fact that shows President Trump is doing a good job stand..

You simply HAVE to contest it, regardless that the facts are stone cold....

At least JL and Liz gave Trump credit when it was due...

But you and the majority of Weigantians simply CANNOT let a fact stand if it shows President Trump is doing a good job...

Irregardless, the simple fact is I trust the Border Patrol Chief's assessment over yours any day of the week and twice on Sunday...

So, you've never heard of a wave election? Or of the Midterms' track record for sitting presidents?

I shouldn't have to re-state the obvious.

And remember, if you can't back up what you claim, you are a lying troll... :D

And if you don't stop repeating that phrase to me, you're a complete asshole. Got it the first time.

Really? Because, according to the Canadians, Trudeau's approval rating is much better than Trump's, and his disapproval rating is far lower:

http://www.cbc.ca/news2/interactives/leadermeter/

Okay, so here's Pew research discussing ILLEGAL immigration specifically. Same result.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/03/02/what-we-know-about-illegal-immigration-from-mexico/

I think it so cute how you put your faith in such a poll that totally blew the presidential election.. :D

Yea.. 538 has some REAL credibility there.. :D

Granted, it has more credibility than all the rest of the Dumbocrat Polls out there...

But THAT doesn't say very much... :D

Yea, if you (per usual) cherry pick your facts...

But the ONLY acceptable poll around here is the RCP poll of polls..

And that shows President Trump at 40.3% approval..

And: you're bragging about a 40% approval rating?

Naw.. I simply find it hilarious that ya'all constantly brag about Trudeau and yet, his approval rating ain't much better than President Trumps.. :D

Even I can't cite events that haven't happened yet.

I asked to cite facts that support your claim that Dumbocrats can possibly take both the House and Senate..

And remember, if you can't back up what you claim, you are a lying troll... :D

And what fact-checker is your go-to site?

WorldNetDaily?

Cite???

Even I can't cite events that haven't happened yet.

heh.

Wrong. It's lower than that:

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/

And: you're bragging about a 40% approval rating?

Cite???

http://modernfarmer.com/2017/01/trump-builds-wall-will-happen-food-system/

Politifact is a well known Left Wing mouthpiece and has absolutely no credibility...

You might as well be citing HuffPoop, WaPoop or DailyShit...

Further, the serial sexual harasser is talking about LEGAL migration and not illegal immigrants..

So, even if you HAD a credible cite, it wouldn't be applicable or relevant to the initial article..

Yer wrong.. AGAIN....

President Trump's approval rating is slightly over 40%...

Canada's Prime Minister Trudeau's approval rating is at 42%....

http://nypost.com/2017/07/15/why-these-canadians-would-take-trump-over-trudeau/

:D

Cite???

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/jun/22/bill-clinton/bill-clinton-zero-net-migration-mexico-2010/

So, you concede the possibility that Dumbocrats, with their SOLE TRUMP!!!! RUSSIA!!!!! TRUMP!!!! RUSSIA!!!!! TRUMP!!!! RUSSIA!!!!! TRUMP!!!! RUSSIA!!!!! might choke and not win EITHER House or Senate...

There is hope for you yet...

Cite???

What was it that Russ said?? If you can't back up your claims, you are nothing but a "lying troll". :D

Hope everyone is enjoying the higher food prices.

Cite???

What was it that Russ said?? If you can't back up your claims, you are nothing but a "lying troll". :D

At least one, possibly both. Depends, as I said, on events I can't predict just yet.

Cite???

What was it that Russ said?? If you can't back up your claims, you are nothing but a "lying troll". :D

Apparently. There must be some reason you've been repeating and repeating this same argument.

Of course, I repeat the same argument..

Ya'all simply CANNOT logically and rationally refute it..

I go with what works, sunshine.. :D

Now if ya'all ACTUALLY tried to address the point instead of going off on nonsensical benders, ya might actually have a chance.. :D

At least one, possibly both. Depends, as I said, on events I can't predict just yet.

The Party slavery is strong with this one.

Apparently. There must be some reason you've been repeating and repeating this same argument. Go watch Fox News - you need a new talking point...

Considering that there's been a Zero net migration rate from Mexico since 2010, that's hardly surprising. Hope everyone is enjoying the higher food prices.

Oh... Silly me.. I forgot..

If you don't toe the Dumbocrat Party line, you ain't worth anything..

Which is EXACTLY the attitude that has caused the Dumbocrat Party to *LOSE* over 1000 political seats in the last six years....

No.. I just ask what ya'all demand of me which I do comply with

Actually address the point instead of going off on a tangent re: totally non-sequitor bullcarp..

The answer is No. N-O.

No???

So, you think that if Dumbocrats concentrate on TRUMP!!!! RUSSIA!!!!! TRUMP!!!! RUSSIA!!!!! TRUMP!!!! RUSSIA!!!!! TRUMP!!!! RUSSIA!!!!! til 2018 that they will actually WIN the House and Senate???

:D

The Party slavery is strong with this one...

Is that THE Joy Villa?? The one who sang..uh..um,..

The answer is No. N-O.

No, because by this time next year it will seem as though ten years had passed. Who knows what we'll be discussing then. Ecuador?

Mueller will continue to investigate, to be sure. But if Trump goes down for conspiring to rig the election, it will because Republicans began crossing the Rubicon, er, aisle, likely after Mueller's report is unveiled.

But the next election will turn on things we havn't even thought of yet. There will be lot of other stuff to run on, I'm confident of that.

Besides, Healthcare.

"I've gotten death threats and hate mail," she told me on my nationally syndicated radio program. "All I did was wear a dress -- something that was pro-Trump."
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/07/17/pro-trump-singer-gets-death-threats.html

Dumbocrats.. :^/

Facial Recognition Coming to Police Body Cameras
http://www.defenseone.com/technology/2017/07/facial-recognition-coming-police-body-cameras/139472/

Left Wing anti-cop fanatics pushed and pushed and pushed for cops to wear body cams..

And NOW the anti-cop nuts have it..

And everything that goes with it!! :D

Ya gotta love it!!! :D

"You wanted to be a powerful genie!?? You got it!!! And everything that goes with it!!! PHENOMENAL COSMIC POWER!!!!!! Itty bitty living space...."
-ALADDIN

:D

"As far as the Trump administration's efforts on immigration, this is something they campaigned heavily on," he said. "At six months, where we are on meeting those promises, we are seeing nothing short of miraculous. If you look at the rhetoric that President Trump has given, it has caused a number of illegal border crossings to go down. We have never seen such a drop that we currently have."
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/border-patrol-union-chief-praises-miraculous-drop-in-illegal-immigration-under-trump/article/2628828

President Trump...

Making America Great Again

:D

That was a very nice comment.

But it has NOTHING to do with what I asked you...

The question is this:

IF the Dumbocrat Party concentrates SOLELY on the TRUMP!!!! RUSSIA!!!!! TRUMP!!!! RUSSIA!!!!! TRUMP!!!! RUSSIA!!!!! TRUMP!!!! RUSSIA!!!!! message, is it likely that they will lose and lose big in the 2018 mid-terms..

When you address this, THEN we can move on to your healthcare issue...

That is not factually accurate.. I have acknowledged and explained FTP #3 at least twice, if not three times..

Even when I DO acknowledge, address and refute ya'all's so-called facts, I don't get any credit for it..

However, to be fair to you.. I post a lot.. It's easy to miss. :D

Yeah, like, since when has politics ever been simple?

I get the impression that you'd like it to be simple. A few catchy phrases, a simple formula for success, something like: cut taxes on the rich, de-regulate, reduce government expenditures, restrict immigration. Am I close?

Trouble is..

The last time this country saw 3% growth was during the Clinton administration, after he'd raised taxes to balance the budget in '93. Bush managed the largest tax cut in history, and deregulated wherever he could, and the results were anemic at best. As a matter of fact, it could be argued that Bush's laissez-faire approach to regulating Wall Street was ultimately catastrophic.

The best, and simultaneously worst, approach to cutting government was the sequester. At least it hit the most bloated sector of government - defense - as much as it cut the rest. On the other hand, it was designed to be literally stupid, cutting program expenditures across the board with no regard to priority or need.

But conservatives play games with the numbers, for instance deliberately confusing the statutory tax rate (maximum rate paid) with the effective tax rate (taxes paid after deductions) which is far lower - absurdly low in the case of some industries (as Warren Buffet points out, his effective tax rate is lower than that of his secretary).

So here's a counter-factual for you, courtesy of Forbes magazine: despite Repbulicants' insistence that Obama was a 'terrible' president for business, the number of people who got into the billionaires' club last year went up by a historic 13% last year, and the number of billionaires topped a record 2000. Their total net worth rose by 18% to $7.67 trillion, also a record. These aren't Altohone's numbers (sorry Al), these are from Forbes, as conservative a source as you'd want.

So right now a significant part of the new Healthcare proposal is an effort to cut Medicaid with the expressed intention that that money would then be spent in the form of deep tax cuts for those aforementioned billionaires. Why? Are they hurting? No. Apparently not. And their numbers are increasing, so Obama didn't drive them away, either.

So the McConnell/Trump plan will be to cause suffering to roughly 15-25 million people (the number thrown off Medicaid by the GOP plan) so that roughly 2000 very well off folks can reduce their taxes by an amount they'll probably barely notice, but that, in turn, will generate fat donations to GOP campaigns.

Good luck selling that turd to average voters next year. And thanks for the 15-25 million new Democrats!

Like Trump says, "this is harder than it looks".

And which hypothesis is that? You make so many.. :D

That is not factually accurate.. I have acknowledged and explained FTP #3 at least twice, if not three times..

Which simply proves my point..

Even when I DO acknowledge, address and refute ya'all's so-called facts, I don't get any credit for it..

for the sake of argument, i acknowledged that some degree of hypocrisy on my part is likely.

And I addressed that as well..

But you are the ONLY one to concede yer hypocrisy... Which is ironic because you are the LEAST hypocritical one here, next to one other. :D

my earlier hypothesis is now supported by empirical evidence.

for the sake of argument, i acknowledged that some degree of hypocrisy on my part is likely. in response, illogical fallacies on the matter significantly increased, and the factual accuracy of FTP#3 is still unacknowledged.

QED

JL

OK... Apparently, it's NOT a simple question... :^/

These "what about" questions also impose some accountability on Trump critics. When asked in good faith, they can be used to determine consistency and avoid double standards.
http://theweek.com/articles/712023/resistance-that-cried-wolf

Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding.. We HAVE a winner!!!

By simply writing off my comments as "whataboutism" ya'all feel you get to ignore the FACT that I am making a good point...

Ya'all scream hysterically about Donald Jr trying to get opposition research from a foreign source.. Ya'all treat it as the end of democracy as we know it..

Yet you conveniently TRY to ignore the *FACT* that NOT-45 did the exact same thing.. Got opposition research from a foreign source..

So, when your hysterical Party slave fear-mongering is put in it's proper context, people with more than 2 brain-cells to rub together realize that the hysterical ideology based fear-mongering bullshit is just that..

Hysterical ideology based fear-mongering bullshit..

THAT is how NOT-45's actions are relevant to ya'all's anti-Trump hysteria... Because it puts your accusations in their proper context as NOTHING but Party based hysteria with little to no relevance in real life..

There is. Healthcare.

OK, I'll address you moving the goal posts in a second. Let's just get this resolved first..

Do you agree that, if the Dumbocrat Party message is ONLY TRUMP!!!! RUSSIA!!!!! TRUMP!!!! RUSSIA!!!!! TRUMP!!!! RUSSIA!!!!! TRUMP!!!! RUSSIA!!!!! that they will likely lose big in the 2018 mid-terms..

It's a simple question.. :D

There is. Healthcare.

GREAT message ya got there, Dumbocrats.. :D

Don't get me wrong..

There is a certain amount of logic to the Dumbocrat strategy..

Hammer at your opponent and make them look as bad as possible and THEIR votes will become YOUR votes..

Imminently logical..

EXCEPT....

Except the Dumbocrats tried that in 2016 and not only did it FAIL... it SPECTACULARLY failed..

"Failed.. Failed... IMPRESSIVELY Failed..."
-Doctor, ARMAGEDDON

Why on earth would Dumbocrats believe such a strategy will work this time around??

Here are the facts and there is simply NO GETTING around them..

President Trump and the GOP won and WON BIG because they told the American people that they (Trump and the GOP) could make their (the American people) lives better...

Whether it's happening or not is another discussion I would be happy to have..

But the point is, President Trump and the GOP convinced the American people (Except Californians who have their own problems :D) that their lives WOULD be made better..

And President Trump and the GOP won...

Now, here's the kicker...

How is TRUMP!!!! RUSSIA!!!!! TRUMP!!!! RUSSIA!!!!! TRUMP!!!! RUSSIA!!!!! TRUMP!!!! RUSSIA!!!!! going to make ANY American's life better??

Answer: It won't....

And, since TRUMP!!!! RUSSIA!!!!! TRUMP!!!! RUSSIA!!!!! TRUMP!!!! RUSSIA!!!!! TRUMP!!!! RUSSIA!!!!! WON'T make a single American's life better and, since TRUMP!!!! RUSSIA!!!!! TRUMP!!!! RUSSIA!!!!! TRUMP!!!! RUSSIA!!!!! TRUMP!!!! RUSSIA!!!!! is the totality of the message and the *ONLY* message that the Dumbocrat Party has.....????

Dumbocrats will lose (AGAIN) in 2018.....

If there is a flaw in the logic......????

"I am all ears"
-Dean Winchester, SUPERNATURAL

:D

You oughta like this.. :D

Still, the aide also said he had never heard of Peter W. Smith, and didn't know of any effort to find the emails. "There was never a thought of who might have them," the aide said. "Nobody at the campaign was trying to find them."

Both Lewandowski and the other former aide stressed the greatest political value of the missing emails, as far as Trump was concerned, was that they gave Trump a way to "poke" and "troll" his Democratic opponent. The Clinton team was BleachBitting and swinging hammers to smash devices — and she says everything was on the up and up, that she has nothing to hide? Candidate Trump could riff on that all day. It was as if Clinton were trying her best to look guilty, to Trump's political benefit.
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/byron-york-what-campaign-wouldnt-seek-motherlode-of-clinton-emails/article/2628812

:D

113-133

A new record??? :D

I mean, seriously...

Look at ya'all's track record??

This is... what?? Sixth...??? Seventh...??? Eighth...??? accusation that is "sure to bring down Trump"...

There is no case for nothing.. Ya'all simply flit from one "OHMYGODS LOOK WHAT TRUMP DID!!!" hysterical BS accusation to the next.. and to the next... and to the next...

And NOTHING is bringing down President Trump...

It must be so maddening for ya'all!! :D

But there IS a silver lining.. At least for the country..

The Dumbocrats are sure to get shellacked (AGAIN) in the 2018 midterms...

Why??

Because their *ONLY* message is TRUMP!!!! RUSSIA!!!!! TRUMP!!!! RUSSIA!!!!! TRUMP!!!! RUSSIA!!!!! TRUMP!!!! RUSSIA!!!!!

GREAT message ya got there, Dumbocrats.. :D

Keep at it..

Ya'all are well and truly unhinged and whacked by Party demagoguery if you think that what Don Jr violated any kind of law...

Let me lay it on in small words so ya'all can understand..

It's NOT against the law to obtain information from a foreign source... EVEN if that foreign source is an "adversary"... :D

Can we STOP with all ya'all's hysterical bullshit now???

"Trump betrayed the US to Russia!!!"
-Weigantian

"Trump Jr met Russian lawyer!!!"
-Weigantian

"Trump colluded with Russia!!!"
-Weigantian

"Trump did money launderings for Russia Mob!!!"
-Weigantian

"Trump is a Russia stooge!!!"
-Weigantian

"Trump is a Russia spy!!!"
-Weigantian

"NOT-45 has many MANY more documented and factual connections with Russia. Ya'all not talking about them is hypocrisy."
-Michale

"MICHALE!!! ALL YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT IS OUR HYPOCRISY!!!!"
-Weigantians

:D

Where is C Cunningham when ya need him!!?? :D

"It's funny cuz it's true"
-Homer Simpson

:D

FINALLY able to get to your comment!! :D

Heard it earlier today in person. I reminded him that in Aug 15 I had emailed him that if Trump ran as a protectionist, he'd take a chunk of Upper MW and likely win,

Sure coulda used you around here back in Aug... It would have been nice to have SOMEONE here who could actually look at ALL the facts with an objective and non-Party Slave eye... :^/

For me, the facts were completely clear about a Trump win at the point that Trump won the GOP Primary...

Which is why I laughed my ass off so much around here when people were talking, as late as Sep and Oct, about NOT-45's "fifty state sweep" and NOT-45's "landslide election win"...

It was frakin' hilarious because the FACTS clearly showed a Trump win.

But all the other Weigantians cherry-picked their facts to paint the picture THEY wanted to see..

It happens so much and so often, I am beginning to think that such self-delusion is a Dumbocrat Party requirement...

It doesn't matter whether the goods were actually delivered at that meeting, Trump's people made it very clear that they welcomed Russian intervention. That's conspiracy, as surely as if a mob boss had said,'would you like to see her disappear?' and they had said, 'yeah, that would be nice'.

And what is it when NOT-45's campaign went to Ukraine and obtained opposition research on Trump??

"Oh that's just normal campaign activities and perfectly acceptable, nay.. encouraged!!"

I honestly cannot BELIEVE you actually think your opinion of things is valid when you spew such blatant Party/Slave hypocrisy...

At the very least, some semblance of enlightenment. And, failing that, then silencio!

I have done my part to bring about exactly that...

It only takes one to start a fight, but it takes two to end one...

"If people hate and fight then they must stop it themselves. Or it is never really stopped"
-Spock, STAR TREK, Day Of The Dove

A diamond in the rough ALADDIN

A millennial explains: Why we melt

Millennials are in a constant contest to one-up each other in showing tolerance, and when anyone or anything stands in their way, they collapse into temper tantrums.
http://www.detroitnews.com/story/opinion/2017/07/10/kaylee-mcghee-millennial-snowflake-generation/103593314/

A millennial who actually gets it..

What's funny is that she is not only describing College Campuses...

She is describing Weigantia to a 'T'.... :D

A week or so ago, you made the comment that the Clinton's Russian connections should ALSO be investigated and condemned, just like Trump's alleged Russia connections are being investigated and condemned...

Tell me..

Have you MADE any comments to that effect since then??

Have you called out NOT-45 or the serial sexual harasser for their Russian connections since then??

Have you pushed for investigations of the Russian connections of the Clinton's since then??

Not a single word... Not a single photon from you condemning the Clinton's Russian connections.... Not an iota, not a smidgen of a comment advocating the investigation of those Russian connections of the Clinton's...

So, what can we conclude from these FACTS??

You were just talking out your ass and don't really care one iota about Russia connections..

The *ONLY* conclusion that fits the FACTS is that all you care about is taking down Trump and nullifying a free, fair and legal election...

I honestly don't understand what all the fuss is about Donald Jr's actions..

I mean, it's not as if Don Jr sold 20 percent of the US's uranium stock to the Russians for personal profit while SecState...

It's not as if Don Jr made a 20 min speech and got a cool half million dollars from Russian Intelligence operatives and Russian mobsters...

It's not as if Don Jr made a personal guarantee of "flexibility" to Vlad Putin in exchange for "space" to win an election..

Don Jr didn't do ANY of those things. Dumbocrats did..

And ya'all don't care ONE IOTA about THOSE Russian-based things..

Which is EXACTLY why ya'all have absolutely *NO CREDIBILITY* when it comes to condemning ANY Trump for their alleged connections to Russia...

The FACT that ya'all give Dumbocrats a pass for doing things MUCH WORSE than ANYTHING the Trump's are accused of, proves beyond ANY doubt that ya'all don't CARE an iota about Russia connections..

Ya'all SOLELY and COMPLETELY want to nullify a free, fair and legal election..

The FACTS overwhelmingly support this conclusion...

As an aside to JL....

THAT is how hypocrisy is tied to validity of judgement...

I *DID* choose to be better than that.. TWICE....

And all I got for my compassion was more hate and name-calling and personal attacks thrown back in my face...

TWICE.....

It's a bona-fide and established FACT that I never start any of this crap...

So, if ya want it stopped might I suggest, with the utmost respect and affection, that you, and whomever else wants it to stop, talk to the people who start all the name-calling and the hate etc etc...

"It's the only way to be sure."
-Ellen Ripley, ALIENS

:D

Amend that to say:

If you are DEAD BROKE... You open a Foundation and 16 years later you have made an estimated THREE HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS!!???

My bust.....

I didn't think you were serious.. Because it's the most stoopidiest question in the history of Weigantia...

Let me expand on the stoopidity of that question..

The Clintons were "dead broke" when they left the White House...

And in less then 16 years they became gazillion-aires...

And the ONLY thing that they had going for them is The Clinton Foundation...

No real jobs that justify making gazillions... Sure a book deal here or there, but nothing that justifies their net worth...

I realize that, in Party Slavery Land, 2+2 does NOT equal 4...

But, in the REAL world... where... yunno.. FACTS are god....

If you are DEAD BROKE... You open a Foundation and 16 years later you are worth an estimated THREE HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS!!???

It's a safe bet that it's a FACT that you benefited financially from that Foundation... At least it is if you have an '-R' after your name.. If you have a '-D' you get ALL SORTS of passes around here.. :^/

THAT is why I thought your question was totally and utterly STOOPID and why I responded to your question with a "Are You Serious!!" exclamation of disbelief...

I honestly didn't believe that someone who is as intelligent as I know you to be would pass off such utter and complete BULLSHIT as fact.. :^/

And the fact that OTHERS let you pass off such utter and complete BULLSHIT as fact is EXACTLY the problem here...

So, do you think that President Trump's hypocrisy on so many different issues (which I have called him on several times) undermine the validity of HIS judgement on matters of fact and reasoning??

Probably..

You see the point??

*EVERYTHING* ya'all say on here is *SOLELY* based on Party loyalty...

Anyone here with a -D after their name, Victoria/Veronica, Russ, etc etc etc can make ANY CLAIM they want and can ignore ANY requests for citation or substantiation...

But let someone who has an -NPA after their name make one single statement that the Dims here don't like??

And the knives come out, the name-calling starts in earnest and it's global thermonuclear war...

And it's ALL based on NOTHING but Party Zealotry...

And then *I* am the one who is told, "Please Michale.. Stop the hate.." :^/

It's completely and utterly ridiculous...

“We will force Republicans to take votes on the record to continue, uh, from, from hiding the facts from the American people,” Pelosi said, effectively stating Republicans are being transparent.
http://www.theamericanmirror.com/video-nancy-pelosi-freezes-repeatedly-misspeaks-brief-remarks/

THIS is ya'all's Dumbocrat leader!???

No wonder ya'all's Party is in the WORST shape it's been in over a century...

am i a hypocrite? probably.

Confession is good for the soul..

does that undermine the validity of my judgment on matters of fact and reasoning? probably not.

Really?? You don't think it goes to credibility??

He will be missed...

How about you post the comments showing your support of Donald when he had a -D behind his name?

*I* am not the one who claimed my attitude on President Trump "hasn't changed one iota"..

Frankly, I didn't give a rats ass about President Trump when he was a -D, just like I didn't give a rats ass about President Trump when he was an -R until he won the GOP primary...

Victoria made the claim and I am asking her to back it up..

When *I* make claims and can't back them up, I am called all sorts of names.. What makes Veronica so special??

Oh yea.. That's right. Because she is a member of the Democrat Party... :^/

, for one, was a Republican when Donald claimed to be a Democrat, but that wouldn't have been the reason I would have opposed him. Trump is a narcissistic dick who treats others like crap. His only motivation is self-promotion. The man put his name on a money-making scam calling itself Trump University that bilked thousands of people out of their money based on false promises and lies. But none of this matters! You claim we supported him, then you get to prove it or you are nothing but a lying troll.

So, if YOU can't prove any statement you make, that makes YOU a lying troll???

Of course not.. You have a -D after your name, so your own rules don't apply to you...

And THAT is being a hypocrite...

I asked you above how the Clinton's personally benefitted from any money donated to the Clinton Foundation and you blew off my request.

I didn't think you were serious.. Because it's the most stoopidiest question in the history of Weigantia...

Memo shows Bill Clinton's wealth was tied to Clinton Foundation
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2016/10/27/memo-shows-bill-clintons-wealth-tied-clinton-foundation/92842822/

You ALSO asked me about Clinton's connections to Russian mobsters.. You didn't follow up on THAT one because you know that Clintons have numerous connections to Russian Mobsters and Russian Intelligence..

I won't speak for anyone else on here, but I, for one, am getting sick of the lies.

Then stop lying and stop the others from lying..

You make accusations, then you best be able to defend them.

I completely agree...

And I will when ya'all will...

Hate doesn't have to beget hate. One can choose to be better than that.

And I have chosen that.. On more than one occasion...

But for you and JL to ask ONLY me to turn the other cheek time and time again..

Well, do you think that is fair??

am i a hypocrite? probably. does that undermine the validity of my judgment on matters of fact and reasoning? probably not. now pardon me while i dodge falling timberlands.

The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic.
~JFK