That comment couldn't be a better denouement for this thread and a perfect segue to the "public option" thread.

I'm with the former Speaker Boehner (sp?) in thinking that the Republicans' chances of passing healthcare legislation is non-existent.

The reasons are simple. In particular, they are split ideologically on what the government's role should be in delivering adequate healthcare to all Americans. So, do too much in one direction or too much in the other and you lose support from one group or another.

Of course, this provides the Democrats - and especially Barack Obama- with an excellent opportunity to do something they have been loath to do since Obamacare went into effect. And, that is champion what's good about it, lead the way to fixing what's bad about it, and make it crystal clear to everyone that it is just one step on the pathway toward a single-payer government-run and taxpayer funded healthcare system that is the only effective way to lower costs and provide excellence in healthcare.

America has an opportunity to devise and implement the best single-payer healthcare system that the industrialized world has ever known!

It is of Trump, with Heller, Collins and Murkowski. All no-real-choice, no-coy-bullshit, no votes. And, as evidence of how deep this went, the fourth Senator in the photo is the oldest patriot in the Republican caucus, and third in line of succession.

I don't even have to click the link with such a thorough description on your part: It's pro tempore of the Senate... one Orrin Hatch (R-Utah). Oh, my heavens!

Some might spin that as why he had to be seated in the photo close to the President. Uh huh. Right.

*LOL*

Tangentially, how stupid was it to attack Heller? Idiots.

Is that really fair to idiots? *LOL* ;)

Huge tactical error proving without doubt that the Trump Trash will throw you under the bus with nary a second thought to the optics, strategics, and/or consequences of their knee-jerk reactions.

The fact that they've now pulled the attack ads speaks volumes regarding their stupidity.

Whatever you have to tell yerself to make it thru the day.. :D

See my response at [24] in the following topic, which is... IN FACT... on topic. :)

Democrats will get violent and over-reach and push GOP hold-outs into the YES column...

Iddn't it funny how the Left Wingery only hates "secrecy" when it's the GOP that's doing it??

No one on the Left has ANY problem with secret back-room deals when it's the Democrats that are going it..

I find that funny.. :D

"That's just kinda funny ta me... But ya'all ain't laughin'.."
-Will Smith, MEN IN BLACK

:D

McConnell pulls bill until after July 4th. Opposition mounts:

I wouldn't worry..

How many times did Democrats have to pull TrainWreckCare legislation??

Remember when Martha Coakley totally screwed the pooch and lost Ted Kennedy's seat??

Everyone was claiming that CrapCare was dead and buried then..

This is simply more of the same...

Since you asked, I'll answer: You're wrong. It wasn't a 9-0 ruling, and there has been no ruling on the constitutionality of the travel ban. It was a 6-3 per curiam decision that partially lifted the stay of the lower court.

Whatever you have to tell yerself to make it thru the day.. :D

But the facts are clear..

If the SCOTUS had thought that President Trump's travel ban was unconstitutional or not within the purview of the POTUS, they would not have cancelled the stay in general..

The fact that the SCOTUS *DID* cancel the stay in general and did so unanimously, proves that the travel ban IS constitutional..

- Mona Lisa Vito, My Cousin Vinny

I'm so proud... {sniffle} :D

It is of Trump, with Heller, Collins and Murkowski. All no-real-choice, no-coy-bullshit, no votes. And, as evidence of how deep this went, the fourth Senator in the photo is the oldest patriot in the Republican caucus, and third in line of succession.

Some might spin that as why he had to be seated in the photo close to the President. Uh huh. Right.

The other Senators, though, know what they're facing among the people they represent, e.g, rising problems of addiction and substance abuse in their populations. For real. There are others, and this would impact the other two classes beyond the one running in '18.

Add to that what some of their state parties and governments have invested in Medicaid expansion under current projections.

The other horn of their dilemma, of course, is if
the right loses interest and turn towards tax cuts.
No Democrats will come aboard under the banner of "repeal."

Tangentially, how stupid was it to attack Heller? Idiots.

Don't believe me? Read it:

https://pmcdeadline2.files.wordpress.com/2017/06/scotus-travel-ban-order-june-26-2017.pdf

Per curiam, by definition, means BY THE COURT... without a listed author, but this case is an ununanimous decision.

There are 3 dissenters.

CW posited at the outset of this thread that there is strength in numbers, so I think passage after the Fourth is less likely. Constituent contact over the recess may be decisive. In Kentucky, there were "Hearings" by citizens on the bill in protest of McConnell's secrecy.

Looks like my long streak of crappy SCOTUS predictions has come to an end!! :D

Am I good or what!!??? :D

Since you asked, I'll answer: You're wrong. It wasn't a 9-0 ruling, and there has been no ruling on the constitutionality of the travel ban. It was a 6-3 per curiam decision that partially lifted the stay of the lower court.

The 90 days have long since ended since travel ban 1.0 and the lifting of the stay for watered down travel ban 2.0 will be over before the Court hears arguments regarding the case in October 2017 so it's possible they'll never rule on it. It's a partial win and not even close to a unanimous decision.

Don't believe me? Read it:

https://pmcdeadline2.files.wordpress.com/2017/06/scotus-travel-ban-order-june-26-2017.pdf

Per curiam, by definition, means an ununanimous decision.

Not the first time I have said this, but do yourself a favor: Crack a book and stop believing all the LIES and FAKE NEWS out of the Orange Blowhole and right-wing spoon-fed propaganda. :)

Greater. Still awaiting your thoughts on my hypothesis that the deviation in approval polls is a combination of odd vs even likert scales and optimism among the undecided.

JL

Here's some stale news, still above the fold on Politico, leading:

If Obamacare repeal fails in the Senate, the GOP might be forced to compromise with Democrats.

And hearings and stuff. And, omg, the White House wants in. There goes the summer.

michale, I can handle this one.

"My God, what a [bleep]ing nightmare!"

- Mona Lisa Vito, My Cousin Vinny

I think Heller and Collins are solid negatives with Rand Paul a near solid. The rest of them seem like they could be bought.

I'm tired of Donald Trump opening his orange blowhole and listening to lie after lie fly out of it. The talking heads in the Trump administration just lie, lie, lie. Kellyanne Conway says the bill contains no cuts to Medicaid; there are hundreds of billions of cuts to Medicaid. LIES. So they don't care about lying nor who is harmed in order to get a political win.

So being they're LIARS and will say anything, small chance of passing later with only Republican votes with the $200 billion McConnell has to work with and all the lies they don't mind telling.

Better chance of it passing...

Good call....

What does everyone think the chances for passage AFTER the holiday week will be?

Greater? Smaller? Non-existent?

I've been thinking about this, but haven't really made up my mind, so would be interested to hear what others think.

-CW

McConnell pulls bill until after July 4th. Opposition mounts:

With Capito, Moran and Portman now opposed to the bill, at least nine Republican senators are on the record as being against the legislation in its current form. The six other senators — Susan Collins (R-Maine), Ted Cruz (R-Tex.), Dean Heller (R-Nev.), Ron Johnson (R-Wis.), Mike Lee (R-Utah) and Rand Paul (R-Ky.) — all announced their intentions before McConnell’s decision.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/2017/06/27/more-republicans-announce-opposition-to-health-care-bill-only-after-vote-is-delayed/?utm_term=.c3654a9703b8

McConnell couldn't lose more than 2, and he's now lost 9.

I was a little worried about predicting "up to a dozen" in this article, but I'm feeling better about that prediction now...

-CW

As is your claims that CNN, WaPoop et al having to retract so many stories is a good thing..

But yet, here we are.. :D

there are many reasons for high rates of retraction among legitimate news organizations, especially concerning "breaking news."

yea.. And TOP of that list is not caring whether the story is true or not, just have to bring down Trump..

most tend to stem from the motivation to "scoop" a story first, and therefore print reports from sources that have not yet been properly vetted or fact-checked.

And yet, ya'all *ONLY* have a problem when FOX NEWS does it.. Ya'all excuse the Left Wing outlets...

Which simply proves my point that it's what ya'all WANT to believe..

Once the leadership wisely allowed Senators to announce their positions on proceeding - not having to say if they would vote no on the bill - the real whip count could comme in.

Just as their are more than 500 "facts" tying NOT-45 and her campaign to the Russian government..

Why is it that *ONLY* Trump's connections are nefarious??

my opinion is that trying to dismiss the entire affair as a "witch hunt" or a "fraud" is much more indicative of someone who "WANTS to believe, contrary to all available facts..."

You mean, like ya'all did with Benghazi and the email server???

It remains possible that there is no underlying crime. However, the continued protestations and machinations of the administration against allowing the probe to move forward increases the appearance that there's a there there.

Yea, cause that was SO dead on bawlz accurate with Benghazi and the email server, right??

Like I said...

One set of standards for the Left.. A completely different, and often diametrically opposite set of standards for the Right..

Hilarious. And it isn't like they can claim it is unfair - after they investigated Benghazi!!! umpteem times it is impossible for them to stop one good investigation of 45 and his Russian connections ... including and especially the potential money laundering from his business deals with Putin cronies.

there are over a hundred verified facts tying members of the trump campaign to the russian government, and more are likely to surface in the investigation. a handful of retracted factual errors do not somehow render all other facts invalid or untrue; nor do they impugn the overall credibility of the news outlets that retracted their errors.

my opinion is that trying to dismiss the entire affair as a "witch hunt" or a "fraud" is much more indicative of someone who "WANTS to believe, contrary to all available facts..."

when all else fails there's always delusion
~conan o'brien

JL

ANYONE who thinks that CNN or any news organization that is pushing this ridiculous Russia crap is reliable and trustworthy???

Well, that's just someone who WANTS to believe...

Contrary to all available facts...

this "you retract stories because you don't lie well enough" argument is too ludicrous to bother responding to.

there are many reasons for high rates of retraction among legitimate news organizations, especially concerning "breaking news." most tend to stem from the motivation to "scoop" a story first, and therefore print reports from sources that have not yet been properly vetted or fact-checked.

JL

Let's say a guy tries to lie his way out of a situation and his lie is so stupid and transparent that he has to fess up to the truth.....

And then he claims, "Well since I can't lie very well, that means I must be a good person.."

That's your claim..

Since CNN got caught in a lie and fessed up to it, that is a GOOD thing and CNN is a trustworthy news organization...

It's spin... Nothing more..

Which WaPoop and Clinton News Network has done EXTENSIVELY...

But what we are seeing with the retractions is that they ran out of places to redirect to..

The idea that a news organization having to CONSTANTLY retract "news" stories is a GOOD thing and indicates a "REAL" news organization is nothing but spin...

CNN, WaPoop, NY Grime got caught spewing fake news as fact..

That's is all this is..

True..

But when there is a PATTERN of inconsistencies and retractions over a SPECIFIC subject, then ANYTHING that said news organization spews out has to be taken with a huge grain of salt..

Fox News and the Rich murder, for example...

heh :D

It's factually accurate, as the majority of my comments today attest to...

:D

Given that, I think not only is it VERY becoming...

It's LONG overdue!!! :D

Don't try to be like Trump, Michale ... it's unbecoming.

The fallout has created an identity crisis for a Democratic Party seeking to find its way forward in the post-Obama era.
http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/339577-dems-face-identity-crisis

Democrats are trying to force a round peg into a square hole..

They won't be able to do it..

You can't have identity politics AND meet the needs of the middle class..

Trumps base has been extremely resilient and loyal...

That should tell ya something right there...

According to whom??

The polls???

The polls powered by purveyors of Fake News and whose media sources have had to issue retraction after retraction after retraction??

Hardly a credible source, wouldn't you agree??

I wonder if his base will end up being fair weather friends ...

CNN Journalists Resign: Latest Example of Media Recklessness on the Russia Threat

Doesn't matter a lick that it's not factually accurate..

Apparently, that's enough :D

Amazing Trump..

He has the Democrats against him.. He has the Republicans against him.. He has the media against him..

And yet, he prevails...

Amazing....

It's funny...

Many on the Right said the EXACT same thing about the Democrats and TrainWreckCare..

Take heart.. THEY were dead on bawlz accurate..

You might be too.. :D

More or less....

But, as ya'all have made perfectly clear, there are Republicans who hate Trump as much as Democrats do..

So, it's not really relevant to the validity of the investigations..

Aren't all of the investigations - Russia's involvement in the 2016 election and possible collusion with Trump officials and possible obstruction of justice - being conducted by Republicans?

It is good news that Collins has made her position clear. Our own Cory Gardner is still pretending to be on the fence. He just attended the Koch Brothers' wealthy folks party at the Broadmoor in Colorado Springs. He has long been in their pockets for fossil fuels, and he will vote for the bill, hoping that we forget his heartless act before his seat comes up for grabs in 2020. I am basing my hopes for a deciding "no" vote on Lisa Murkowski, despite the extreme rightward lean of Alaska. Just a gut feeling....

I have faith that should this bill pass not just Gardner, but the Republican Party will be rightfully branded for many years as enemies of average Americans. I despair that it may take years to repair the damage, and am incensed the Republicans are unmoved by the unnecessary loss of life passage would guarantee.

Excuse me while I make my daily call to an office of Cory the Weasel.

I just feel like {the Democrats} don't really have it but they want to keep digging. And so I think the President is probably right to say, like, look you are witch hunting me. You have no smoking gun, you have no real proof."
-CNN Producer

Who would have POSSIBLY thought that the Russia story was all crap???

Oh... Wait.. :D

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/19511398_1047427302061273_454505130619706144_n.jpg?oh=3d5fbdbd327a242a812120c679bf3b29&oe=59E25E96

Just because it's funny... :D

Lot going on this morning..

"He's all over the place! Nine hundred feet up to 1300 feet. What an asshole!"
-AIRPLANE

:D

The hunt for reds in October has morphed into a quest for obstructed justice in June. This has become a narrative about nothing.
http://tinyurl.com/y7frhhln

There is no 'there' there... It's a huge nothing-burger...

It's *ya'all's* BENGHAZI and EMAIL SERVER all rolled into one...

For those of us who have long argued that the legal authority supported Trump, the order was belated but not surprising. However, the order does offer a brief respite for some self-examination for both legal commentators, and frankly, the courts. At times the analysis surrounding the immigration order seemed to drop any pretense of objectivity and took on the character of open Trump bashing.
http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/the-administration/339523-opinion-trumps-travel-ban-victory-should-force-media-to

And THERE is the problem..

The court based it's ludicrous SOLELY on the fact that they don't like Trump...

Many of the court's written decisions don't even MENTION the law that they were supposed to be ruling on!!!

These rulings weren't legal rulings, they were Democrat Party rulings..

And the SCOTUS has set those lower courts straight.. By a 9-0 ruling...

Feds looking into Bernie Sanders, wife over real estate deal

The complaint against Jane Sanders was filed in early 2016 by attorney Brady Toensing, who served as the Vermont campaign chairman for Donald Trump during his run for president as a Republican. In a separate complaint, Toensing alleged that Bernie Sanders' senatorial office pressured a bank to approve the loan.
Sanders, an independent, ran for president as a Democrat last year but was ousted in the primary by Hillary Clinton, who lost to Trump in the general election.
Asked about the allegations Monday at a Washington press conference on expanding community health centers, Sanders sought to keep the questions on health care.
http://hosted2.ap.org/APDEFAULT/89ae8247abe8493fae24405546e9a1aa/Article_2017-06-26-US--Bernie%20Sanders-Wife-Investigation/id-aeabb68c09ac45dfbba33fa4ea294a4e

Bernie University scandal!! :D heh

Of course no one on the Left wants to talk about THAT, eh??

Geee, I wonder why... :D

Three CNN Employees Resign Over Retracted Story on Russia Ties
http://www.thewrap.com/three-cnn-employees-resign-retracted-story-russia-ties/

CNN reporters were forced to resign and CNN had to print (ANOTHER) retraction of a BS Trump/Russia story..

I tell ya people..

Yer TRUMP/RUSSIA crap is falling apart under the weight of all the BS that the Left has piled on top of it...

Who could have POSSIBLY predicted that!!???

Oh... Wait.. :D

What have we here???

Did the FBI retaliate against Michael Flynn by launching Russia probe?
http://circa.com/politics/accountability/did-the-fbi-retaliate-against-michael-flynn-by-launching-russia-probe

A vendetta against a honored and decorated military man by a serial sexual harasser...

THAT is the basis of the Democrat Party's case against General Flynn...

What IS it about Democrats and serial sexual harasser that they are always tied together???

Looks like my long streak of crappy SCOTUS predictions has come to an end!! :D

I do believe I said that it's likely a 9-0 ruling in favor of the constitutionality of the travel ban and a 9-0 ruling in favor of the travel ban being within the purview of the POTUS was a distinct possibility..

And here it is... A 9-0 ruling.. :D

Am I good or what!!??? :D

Speaking of collusion with Russians..

As he was leaning toward Medvedev in Seoul, Obama was overheard asking for time — “particularly with missile defense” — until he is in a better position politically to resolve such issues.

“I will transmit this information to Vladimir,” said Medvedev, Putin’s protégé and long considered number two in Moscow’s power structure.

THAT is collusion with Russians much more so than anything that Democrats can come up with against Trump..

We ALSO have Obama looking the other way during Russia hacking in Aug of 2016 and sweeping it under the rug so as to help NOT-45's campaign..

THAT is collusion with Russians much more so than anything that Democrats can come up with against Trump...

TrainWreckCare is history.. It's toast.. It's going the way of the dodo....

Ya'all and Obama lost...

Elections have consequences..

Yada yada yada yada....

Jeeze, cry me a river...

If it goes over the summer, it is a toss up.

Let's face it, there is no real love between Trump and the party leaders. They kiss the ring for now, but he knows that they will turn on him the moment they believe he is no longer of use to them.

It would show that Trump is his own man: the PEOPLE'S PRESIDENT! Just think how grateful the masses would be! They would be so happy to be able to keep their healthcare coverage that they'd probably do anything for him....

Like being willing to ignore the outcome of the Investigation that the special prosecutor is conducting!?!? I mean, how can someone who is looking out for American's access to healthcare be guilty of collusion, or obstruction, or treason???

I am mildly curious as to what the GOP leadership thinks it's doing in the long run - to shaft the white working class and the white suburban middle class on healthcare over the next few years seems to be a counterproductive electoral strategy for them.

But they may see things differently. They may be figuring that those classes will simply refuse to connect their poor healthcare options with the Congress and the president - or they may be calculating that their electoral hold on the House and Senate is too strong to be more than weakened, not actually lost, in the midterms - or (I really don't know) they may be figuring that other issues will be more important by 2018 and 2020 and they simply *have* to get this done and out of the way (as your piece stressed).

Sounds like Rand Paul is a solid no, at least at this point. He's on record saying he'll vote against the motion to proceed:

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/rand-paul-is-no-on-motion-to-proceed-obamacare-repeal-bill

On the MTP, two no votes (Collins, Paul), and likely Heller as well. That's enough to stop it for now, but then McConnell still will try to tweak it, so who knows?

-CW

No way is Rand Paul the savior of Obamacare.

Are there 3-4 more Republican Senators that put Country and people ahead of Party and Tax Breaks for the Least Deserving.

I doubt it, sadly.

Dang it, I hate when stuff happens while I'm writing and editing...

I'll check it out, thanks for the heads-up.

:-)

-CW

This reminds me:

https://youtu.be/PDQ8DE_8CHk?t=2m25s

:)

Sen. Susan Collins @SenatorCollins

3:50 PM - 26 Jun 2017