"What a failure. Obamacare repeal in the toilet. Wiretap claim in the toilet. Muslim ban in the toilet.

Maybe he should stop tweeting policy from the toilet."

I loved that too! Maybe the size of his hands had something to do with his fingers not being able to type things out correctly also? :-)

JL

What a failure. Obamacare repeal in the toilet. Wiretap claim in the toilet. Muslim ban in the toilet.

Maybe he should stop tweeting policy from the toilet.

OMG, Neil! Now that's funny. :)

Shit rolls downhill, and there's going to have to be a lot of fighting in order to avoid getting trickled down on.

He probably already does!

We can hope the ACA repeal is in the toilet but I'm not yet confident. GOP is quite capable of making a few cosmetic changes and passing it anyway. Really depends on just how stupid they are and how confident they are they can fool enough people sufficiently.

Maybe he should stop tweeting policy from the toilet.

Trumpers. They loves them their Molester-in-Chief and emulate him -- gender being subject to taste, of course.

Thud! :)

- Doug Holtz-Eakin (R), former CBO director

Cue upset in 2018. It is easy to pile on when everybody hates Washington, but now that they are Washington they need to put their big boy pants on and most of them don't own a pair.

Maddow's problem is that those 2 pages actually painted President Trump in a GOOD light..

Paying almost TWICE as much in taxes as Bernie Sanders did..

Thanks be to the Alternative Minimum Tax (otherwise not so good at 3%). Since that AMT paints him in such a "GOOD light," Trump might want to rethink doing away with it.

Then again, HRC in the first debate suggested the reason Trump would not release his tax returns might be that he paid no taxes, and Trump replied: "That makes me smart." So by his own definition, Trump is looking pretty stupid... probably why he wants to abolish that thing. ;)

Maddow got played by Trump... :D

It's so cute how a lot of righties think that to "believe" in something makes it a fact. Has Trump confessed to releasing his own tax return, or do you just "believe" that he did? :)

Are you trying 45's trick of punting and hoping that the news cycle changes? 45 is discovering that this trick isn't working any longer.

You mean the Tower with the Chinese State bank? And thousands of other tenants?

Get back to me when you have some proof that 45 himself was targeted and that is was politically motivated, as 45 accused Obama of.

Or you may find that there was a wire "tapp" on 45 during the last 18 months, and it is because there is evidence that he colluded with the Russians to steal the election.

And, but for the fact that I am bald, fat and ugly, I could be a GQ model.. :D

Interesting... if not relevant.

A VERY wise Weigantian once said, "You can't fault someone for using the rules to their financial advantage, even if they speak out against those same rules"

I wonder if s/he would agree that you can't fault someone for doing away with the Alternative Minimum Tax in order to abolish their own taxes?

I'm guessing NOT. :)

And President Trump is not trying to pass a law to enhance the AMT...

He has come out against it...

The fact he uses it to his advantage??

See comment #62 (or thereabouts..)

And his word is gospel??? :D

Let me get with you in the morning and I'll post all the facts about the 3 times the Obama Administration went to FISA court to obtain the authorization to wiretap Trump Tower... :D

Cite????

Easy:

“I don't think there was an actual tap of Trump Tower,” said Devin Nunes (R-Calif.).

And, but for the fact that I am bald, fat and ugly, I could be a GQ model.. :D

But you aren't trying to pass a law that makes fat, bald and ugly guys must get all the leading roles in Hollywood.

If you do, let me know and I'll vote for you ;)

It all comes down to what kind of a country you wish to live in.

What do you intend to say, by saying that a system "works"?

A healthcare system that works - in the here and now - is one in which every single person in the country is entitled to basic healthcare with most medical services covered by a single-payer system and where there is no freedom opt out of something that everyone is born into.

By the way, by 'single-payer' I do not intend to mean "free" healthcare, just to be clear but, rather, everyone pays their fair share. One is free, however, to improve upon this basic healthcare and pay whatever amount they can or want to purchase more healthcare.

For the vast majority of human history, there wasn't a single-payer medical system anywhere.

I'm not sure what you intend to say with that ... ??

Maddow's problem is that those 2 pages actually painted President Trump in a GOOD light..

Paying almost TWICE as much in taxes as Bernie Sanders did..

Maddow got played by Trump... :D

it was almost like listening to Trump talk about his healthcare plan or his plan to defeat ISIS. :)

Or Obama's plan to close Gitmo.... :D

And yet, to hear Maddow tell it, she had the Holy Grail...

That's kinda my point.. :D

Seriously now! But for the fact that Maddow actually did have 2 pages, it was almost like listening to Trump talk about his healthcare plan or his plan to defeat ISIS. :)

A VERY wise Weigantian once said, "You can't fault someone for using the rules to their financial advantage, even if they speak out against those same rules"

....Or words to that effect... :D

And, but for the fact that I am bald, fat and ugly, I could be a GQ model.. :D

And yet, to hear Maddow tell it, she had the Holy Grail...

That's kinda my point.. :D

I'm with Elizabeth on this one. If single payer works for Defense it can work for Healthcare. Otherwise what are we defending?

What do you intend to say, by saying that a system "works"? For the vast majority of human history, there wasn't a single-payer medical system anywhere.

I think private insurance can pay for at least some kinds of medical services, and continue to do so for decades at least. I think a philanthropic system can provide some minimum level of medical services. I think people could be allowed to opt out of receiving some categories of medical services, and thereby avoid paying the cost.

There is no such thing as a perfect medical system, until and unless diagnosis can be done using only the hardware that ordinary people have in their homes for other purposes, together with software and computing power that can be paid for by watching 30 seconds of ads whenever you use it. Medical services cost, even if people don't pay for them directly: it takes labor, capital, and natural resources to provide them. Most medical services provide only very limited benefit: many people, if they could evaluate the actual odds, would be willing to forgo the medical services in order to have other goods and services that could be supplied with the same factors of production.

We spend far too much on medical services -- we in the US much more so, but you do too in the civilized world.

Without the schedule D they are meaningless.

I know, right? Two pages of a tax return is a great big nothingburger. The devil is in the details.

Still, we did learn that but for the Alternative Minimum Tax, Trump would have paid only 3% in income taxes for 2005.

It's not like anyone has plans to abolish the Alternative Minimum Tax. ;)

I await word with eager anticipation.. :D

You mean the IDES OF MADDOW

:D heh

I know you'll never seriously condemn Obama or hold him accountable so I will never have to seriously consider your claims against President Trump.. :D

Saves me expending some brain cells.. And I need to save all the brain cells I can!!! heh

:D

Price's confirmation hearing in the Senate is scheduled for Jan. 18.

And Obama promised to close Gitmo...

When you start holding Obama accountable for his BS, then you'll have some credibility attacking President Trump...

Price was confirmed on Feb 10th.

Today is Mar 15th.

The ides of March.

President-elect Trump on Wednesday [Jan 11th, 2017] said a "repeal-and-replace" plan for Obamacare would be submitted as soon as the Senate approves his nominee, Rep. Tom Price, R-Ga., for secretary of the U.S. Health and Human Services Department.

Price's confirmation hearing in the Senate is scheduled for Jan. 18.

Source: http://www.cnbc.com/2017/01/11/donald-trump-addresses-obamacare-repeal-and-replacement-at-press-conference-in-new-york.html

And yes, it IS factual that TrainWreckCare did NOT live up to it's name AFFORDABLE CARE ACT..

There is only one way to get excellent and affordable healthcare. I'll let you know when and if it ever gets proposed!

Cite????

Most of your comment is spot on, but it is a reality that many people can't afford to use the insurance they have, and that high deductible plans and co-pays are the initial reason.

That's another reason why Single Payer is vastly superior to the "corporate subsidies to middlemen who don't provide health care" system, developed by Republicans btw, that Obama and the Wall Street coddling corporatists implemented.

Trumpcare giving people the choice not to have insurance only makes the problem worse though. The people who can't afford to use their insurance still won't be able to afford the health care they need even if they don't have to pay insurance premiums.

A

Why??

You and me both fell for Odumbo's con..

Do you feel ashamed for that???

Anyone who claims that TrainWreckCare is AFFORDABLE is delusional or pushing an agenda...

EXCEPT, it is not too expensive to use and it is not impossible to use. Real world places like Kentucky PROVE this.

First time I heard you claim that Kentucky is "real world"..

Sure you can cherry pick a bright spot here or there..

But TrainWreckCare is in a death spiral. Major insurers are leaving it in droves..

This is fact...

And yes, it IS factual that TrainWreckCare did NOT live up to it's namer AFFORDABLE CARE ACT..

http://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2017/03/15/jeff-sessions-trump-wiretap-claim.cnn

Everybody is figuring out the 45 reverse Midas touch effect.

Lindsay Graham is so happy getting back for the release of his cell phone number. And even the politically spineless (the man is a genuine war hero) John McCain is showing some fortitude.

Who'd have guessed?

Uh-huh, but he promised that he had a plan and that he was going to release it when he got elected ... then again when Price was confirmed (Price even laughed about that during the confirmation hearings).

Can you please explain to me why 45 would claim to have a plan and give a release date, then not release it? And now Ryandon'tcare is exploding, why we don't get the plan from the amazing businessman who you keep telling us about.

He is a complete BS artist and you should be ashamed for falling for his con.

Don't you want to talk about President Trump's tax returns?? :D

Without the schedule D they are meaningless.

That is very true. My use of the analogy, however, was apt but does require a bit of nuance. :)

Once again, projection.
Ignorance is what is driving the defense of unnecessary police brutality.

I would find it funny that you believe tackling and beating someone who gets on his knees and surrenders is the only way for police to approach such a situation if not for the ugly reality it exposes about the mentality behind it.

It is you who needs to go on a ride-along in areas or other countries where police training includes those other approaches... and hiring standards that exclude those incapable of seeing why they are better for society, and those incapable of following them.

You are reveling in ignorance while accusing critics of ignorance.

It is no different than the different approaches to peaceful protesters.
Some countries guarantee the right and protect protesters, some countries beat them into submission.
In America, we do both, but only one of those approaches is considered correct.

You are clinging to outdated notions than un-coincidentally have been shaped by our racist history.

A

Thanks John!

Quite obviously, these are hard concepts for America Firsters to understand.

That would be up to whomever decides how your income tax system is set up, of course.

"It's called The AFFORDABLE</I? CARE ACT..

It wasn't called The LET'S INSURE AS MANY PEOPLE AS WE CAN ACT...

By it's very own name, it was a dismal failure..

AGAIN, NOT TRUE. If more people are covered, it's because more people can afford it who could not afford it before.

"It's utterly moronic to create a program that makes it IMPOSSIBLE to use health insurance because it's so expensive and then claim SUCCESS simply because more people are FORCED to buy plans that are too expensive to use..

EXCEPT, it is not too expensive to use and it is not impossible to use. Real world places like Kentucky PROVE this.

"And yet, it was you and Liz who compared them.. :D"

NOPE, it was ONLY Liz who used that example, not me. Please stop lumping me in with things I did not say.

Don't you want to talk about President Trump's tax returns?? :D

Ba dum dum!

How long did it take Obama to bring us TrainWreckCare???

President Trump has been in office, whaa?? less than 2 months...???

Do you see how ridiculous you are sounding?? :D

Where are the calls from the 45 fanboys to see the plan he promised? After all you keep telling us Obamacare doesn't work, so what is your alternative and why isn't your idol letting us in on his secret plan?

* Good one JFC!

It's called The AFFORDABLE</I? CARE ACT..

It wasn't called The LET'S INSURE AS MANY PEOPLE AS WE CAN ACT...

By it's very own name, it was a dismal failure..

It's utterly moronic to create a program that makes it IMPOSSIBLE to use health insurance because it's so expensive and then claim SUCCESS simply because more people are FORCED to buy plans that are too expensive to use..

NOT TRUE. Ebola and the concern about the virus from China, were NOT THAT LONG AGO. Also, what about the Zika virus? That's was very recent also.

And all was totally overblown and not any kind of threat to the US...

To use your own favorite term, that statement of yours is non sequitor. Health insurance and auto insurance are in no way comparable.

And yet, it was you and Liz who compared them.. :D

"And TrainWreckCare is SO effective, right?? :^/"

Considering how much it lowered the uninsured rate, YES IT IS.

"You had to go back over a century to find a relevant example."

NOT TRUE. Ebola and the concern about the virus from China, were NOT THAT LONG AGO. Also, what about the Zika virus? That's was very recent also.

"Forcing a person to buy health insurance simply because they exist is as assinine as forcing someone to buy auto insurance who doesn't drive..."

To use your own favorite term, that statement of yours is non sequitor. Health insurance and auto insurance are in no way comparable.

And is that person who is born at the hospital responsible for the bill??

No..

Ergo, your response is non sequitor..

There are certain things that can ONLY be EFFECTIVELY done on a NATIONAL level. Health care is one of them.

Yea???

And TrainWreckCare is SO effective, right?? :^/

REALLY??? Say that the next time another pandemic hits. Ebola, the Spanish influenza of 1914, SARS, Bird Flu, take your pick. I'll bet you'll wish that everybody had both health insurance and could afford access to treatment then!!!

You had to go back over a century to find a relevant example..

That should tell you something.. :D

Also, if you will remember, the individual mandate you are so against, was a REPUBLICAN idea pushed by Newt Gingrich, originally!

So??

It's stoopid and unconstitutional regardless of WHAT moron came up with it..

Forcing a person to buy health insurance simply because they exist is as assinine as forcing someone to buy auto insurance who doesn't drive...

And WHO decides "fair" share???

"And, furthermore, any live American person, no matter how healthy or filthy rich they are, does not live on their own private island. They live in a country with some 300 million other live people, most with health issues that would very well affect that 'superhuman' live American if said issues were not dealt with through an effective healthcare system."

Right on Elizabeth! Exactly spot on correct!

"So, what you are saying is that people should have to pay health insurance to subsidize OTHER people who can not afford it..."

YES, the should. That is what is currently done with Medicaid, Medicare, and Veterans health care. You are just objecting to including the rest of the population, which doesn't make sense.

"The world is irrelevant."

REALLY??? Say that the next time another pandemic hits. Ebola, the Spanish influenza of 1914, SARS, Bird Flu, take your pick. I'll bet you'll wish that everybody had both health insurance and could afford access to treatment then!!!

"In the US, we have a Constitution and forcing an American to pay for something they don't want and may never need violates the Constitution...

Change the Constitution and the Left can have it's mandate...."

NOT necessary. Since I already cited Medicaid, Medicare and Veterans Health, all of which ARE constitutional.

Also, if you will remember, the individual mandate you are so against, was a REPUBLICAN idea pushed by Newt Gingrich, originally!

"Pushing a mandate is a big problem and betrays a general misunderstanding of the US Constitution."

NOT really. There are plenty of mandates. Everyone participates in Social Security, everyone participates in Medicare, everyone pays taxes.

"If someone never goes to a doctor, it would be as ridiculous to force someone to carry health insurance as it would be to force someone who never drives to carry car insurance."

That's a completely FALSE analogy. Everyone goes to the doctor at some point, even if it's only to be born in the first place.

"Further, if you want to use the auto insurance analogy then the states should the sole arbiter of health insurance, not the federal government."

Except states can't afford health insurance on an individual basis. It's just another FALSE analogy. There are certain things that can ONLY be EFFECTIVELY done on a NATIONAL level. Health care is one of them. Defense, printing money and immigration control, just being other examples of many.

No. I'm saying that the only system that works is a single-payer system and one in which everyone must pay their fair share for healthcare insurance through income tax.

Until Americans understand what works and what doesn't with regard to healthcare insurance, there will continue to be endless and pointless debates on the subject and a healthcare system that doesn't work and is not at all sustainable.

The world is irrelevant..

By 'world', I meant your American world, within the confines of the United States of America. Of course, your little world would be better off if the rest of the world has an effective healthcare system, too and not just the rest of the industrialized world. Ahem.

So, what you are saying is that people should have to pay health insurance to subsidize OTHER people who can not afford it...

Hmmmmm Sounds vaguely familiar.. :D

Michale, we all live in a very interrelated, interdependent world. Your concept of healthcare insurance only makes sense if such a complex reality does not exist.

The world is irrelevant..

In the US, we have a Constitution and forcing an American to pay for something they don't want and may never need violates the Constitution...

Change the Constitution and the Left can have it's mandate....

A live person would have to be superhuman not to ever have a need for health care.

And, furthermore, any live American person, no matter how healthy or filthy rich they are, does not live on their own private island. They live in a country with some 300 million other live people, most with health issues that would very well affect that 'superhuman' live American if said issues were not dealt with through an effective healthcare system.

Michale, we all live in a very interrelated, interdependent world. Your concept of healthcare insurance only makes sense if such a complex reality does not exist.

Yea, I think President Trump released the info from those "returns" a year ago.. :D

The Anti-Trumper group's credibility just took a huge hit..

Like I said, it's akin to the Right Wingery and their Birth Certificate hysteria...

Pushing a mandate is a big problem and betrays a general misunderstanding of the US Constitution.

Let me put it this way, again ... just as there is a mandate for all auto drivers to have auto insurance, there should be a mandate for all live people to have health insurance.

Why??

If someone never goes to a doctor, it would be as ridiculous to force someone to carry health insurance as it would be to force someone who never drives to carry car insurance..

If someone is filthy rich and can pay cash for everything, then it's ridiculous to force them to buy health insurance..

Further, if you want to use the auto insurance analogy then the states should the sole arbiter of health insurance, not the federal government..

Healthcare insurance is not something that any live person should be able to opt out of. That just doesn't make any sense.

It makes perfect sense, given the afore examples..

The reporter who received these two pages of Trump's 2005 taxes should have just sat on them for a while.

That's what I would have done, waiting to see what kind of response would emanate from the WH or from a certain twitter account when the tax news was not reported. After all, it wasn't much of a report, anyways. :)

Getting rid of the mandate is a big problem and betrays a general misunderstanding of healthcare insurance.

Let me put it this way, again ... just as there is a mandate for all auto drivers to have auto insurance, there should be a mandate for all live people to have health insurance.

Healthcare insurance is not something that any live person should be able to opt out of. That just doesn't make any sense.

:D heh

I tend to pick Door Number 3. TrumpCare was just another variation on Trump U....all sales pitch, no product. Trump will cut his losses and move on. The election is over. Governing is hard and Trump has a short attention span. So does the electorate. So does the media. Ryan is the new Boehner. Boehner seems so long ago...I had to look up how to spell his name.

Ryancare really should be called Ryandon'tcare.

Credit where credit is due..

THAT's funny... :D

hehehehehehehehehehehehe

Haven't seen this much hysteria since Obama's birth certificate fiasco.. :D

I am self-employed.. I have a family plan thru my wife's work...

Personally, it sucks.. The deductible shot WAY up after TrainWreckCare. So much so that it is impossible to use unless something major happens...

We were fortunate this year with my surgery for my arm. We actually were able to use our insurance because our deductible was met..

And I don't need to worry about losing my house over medical bills..

Of course.. Do you think the propaganda arm of the Democrat Party is going to put ANYONE on TV who actually supports the legislation!??

Shirley, you jest.. :D

Now, maybe things aren't as dire for Ryancare as watching the political news on television would have you believe.

Ya think?? :D

The Media's trust amongst Americans is lower than Trump's and even lower than Congress'... THAT says something.. :D

Maybe there are back-room deals happening which will give Ryan enough support to get his bill passed in the House.

It certainly worked for Democrats and TrainWreckCare... :D

Donald Trump hates to lose. Ryancare, at this point, looks more and more like it's going to be a big loser.

It's not as if TrainWreckCare never appeared dead in the water, eh?? :D

This will play out according to Party ideology... Expecting anything different is like expecting the sun to rise in the west and set in the east...

Here's a little dose of reality for Michale ...

Saying that Dana Milbank is a "dose of reality" vis a vis Republicans is like saying that Rush Limbaugh is a "dose of reality" vis a vis Democrats.. :D

Having said that I did, in fact, read the article... And it merely confirmed my initial skepticism..

Blaming the Republicans for the debacle that is TrainWreckCare is like blaming Democrats for the debacle that was President Trump's first Travel Ban EO...

If the shit is tight to begin with, it can withstand the machinations of the opposition Party...

One only has to look at the utter cluster-frak that was TrainWreckCare's rollout to KNOW that Obama's pet program's shit was NOT tight...

Time will tell on the GOP's version, but so far, it's a step in the right direction. Getting rid of the mandate is a HUGE plus...

Looks like he paid more in taxes than Obama and almost twice as much as Bernie Sanders!! :D

Ya know, President Trump's tax returns reminds me of Obama's birth certificate "scandal"...

A lot of hysterical smoke and absolutely NO FIRE.. :D

:-)

-CW

Best moniker I've heard: It's from Donnie Trump, right? So let's call it DonTcare...

or just "don'tcare"

:-)

-CW

Oh, and before I forget, LizM: email me! I tried emailing you a few weeks ago, but I think you've changed email addresses, because it bounced back. Send me your new one...

:-)

-CW

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-gop-masterminds-behind-obamacares-death-spiral/2017/03/14/ad798b5a-08ed-11e7-b77c-0047d15a24e0_story.html?tid=hybrid_collaborative_1_na&utm_term=.fbba133a8f11

JL