"That's the spirit, kid. Keep 'em flying!!"
"Keep what flying?"
"The flags of discontent"
-PLANET OF THE APES

:D heh

Democrats can't get their shit together...

2018 is going to be a Democrat bloodbath...

Fact, opinion... it's dead on ballz accurate..

Can that be refuted???

If it can, by all means, do so.. :D

Obama is doing the exact same thing as past administrations ...whereas the N.C. GOP cronies are stripping power from the Governor to appoint his administration, which for better or for worse is the way it should be, to the victor goes the spoils...so to speak.

Obama is doing the exact same thing that the NC GOP cronies are doing...

Making it harder for the incoming administration to govern..

Anything else is just spin..

If Obama was preventing Trump from appointing his own people...like NC has done to the Governor you would have a point...but he hasn't so you don't.

You mean, like Obama filling government positions with White House staffers so Trump can't fire them and appoint his own people??

You mean like that?? :D

Gee... I wonder why!!?? :D

So aside from the fact that you are using an editorial as "fact"...

Obama is doing the exact same thing as past administrations ...whereas the N.C. GOP cronies are stripping power from the Governor to appoint his administration, which for better or for worse is the way it should be, to the victor goes the spoils...so to speak.

If Obama was preventing Trump from appointing his own people...like NC has done to the Governor you would have a point...but he hasn't so you don't.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2017/01/17/reagan_and_trump_american_nationalists__132809.html

Trump is going to bring back American prestige and honor, unseen since Saint Ronald....

Having come of age under Commander In Chief Ronald Reagan, I for one, am looking forward to serving under Commander In Chief Donald Trump in whatever capacity I can... :D

Get that???

Waters thinks that Russia gave Trump all the nicknames and such and, because of that, Trump should be impeached...

My gods... Trump Derangement Syndrome makes Obama Derangement Syndrome look like a hang nail!!

Yea, sending a strong message..

The Left Wingery is a bunch of prostitutes that can be bought... :^/

The very definition of astro-turf movements..

The Left Wingery went bat shit hysterical that Trump would close the doors on refugees....

Obama slams the door on Cubans fleeing Castro | Opinion
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/opinion/commentary/fl-fcoped-obama-wet-foot-dry-foot-20170113-story.html

That's our Obama... Pushing his own petty and vindictive agenda, regardless of how petty and vindictive it makes him look..

Trump beat you, Mr Obama... Deal with it...

Team Obama keeps laying new landmines for Trump
http://nypost.com/2017/01/16/team-obama-keeps-laying-new-landmines-for-trump/

Funny how we don't hear much from ya'all about that anymore, eh???

Gee... I wonder why!!?? :D

You reap what you sow...

If Trump was everything that these morons SAID he was, then why would they want to work with him now??

"TRUMP IS SCUM OF THE EARTH!!! TRUMP IS HITLER!!! TRUMP IS A FRAUD!!!... whaaa??? He frakin' won!!??? TRUMP IS DA BEST!!! TRUMP IS A HERO!!! CAN I CARRY YOUR WATER, PRESIDENT TRUMP!!!!"

Politicians are scumbags...

Yea, right.. I know you.. :D

Can I make it into a tootsie pop and suck it??

No, wait... :D

I would have to agree...

If we hadn't had Obama, then it's likely we wouldn't have Trump.... :D

Don't forget Michale, you wouldn't have been seeing any of those headlines if Obama HADN'T been elected.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it!

The good news is that's the only thing I'm formidable on. :)

Do you think that the Leftis MSM will EVER give Donald Trump a fair shake??

Probably not. Though, they never gave Biden a fair shake, either. So there's that.

And, they wouldn't know how to give anything or anyone a fair shake, anyways. So, there's that on top of that.

With notable exceptions, of course. :)

President Donald Trump

Making America Great Again.... Even before he takes office!! :D

Ya'all just HAVE to know that we wouldn't be seeing *ANY* of these headlines if Hillary had been elected..

No American Euphoria...

No companies all over the world, fighting to get back INTO the US...

No corporations climbing all over themselves to curry favor with the newly elected President and bringing back tens of thousands of new jobs to the US...

No skyrocketing hope....

Under President Hillary Clinton, Michelle Obama's "hopelessness" would have been the way of this country..

But with President Donald Trump, there is dancing in the streets....

I know, I know.. Ya'all would rather dig out yer eyeballs with a rusty spoon before ya'all would give Trump credit for ANYTHING...

The Republicans felt the EXACT same way about Obama...

"And so it goes... and so it goes..."
-Billy Joel

Your knowledge of Biden is, indeed, formidable.. :D

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one..

On another note..

http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/curtis-houck/2017/01/16/reporters-plead-mlk-iii-attack-trump-did-lewis-tweets-shake-you

What's your thoughts on the Lame Stream Media practically begging Martin Luther King III to attack Donald Trump..

Do you think that the Leftis MSM will EVER give Donald Trump a fair shake??

Nothing is ever Biden's fault... it's just people not understanding his horrible decisions that violate basic Democratic principles, ethics and morality.

Is others not understanding (aka wishful thinking) your defense for his horrible fashion sense too?

206

That was another reference to your "games" comment nonsense.

You seem to have given up... not sure if continuing in the new thread makes sense, but I'll look for you there.

A

Got sucked into the link and almost burned my dinner.

The idea has a more interesting history than I was aware of.
If it's only economically feasible in conjunction with universal healthcare, my prior optimism may have been misplaced.

A

I don't know what that means.

Congratulations, Alice!

I was counting the hours it would take for you to bring up the bankruptcy bill. Which is something else that most people don't understand about Biden.

No Liz, it's clearly Biden's fault.

The factually inaccurate spin doesn't change Biden's vote FOR the illegal and unnecessary war.

A "no" vote was what the evidence required.
Biden helped enable a war crime with disastrous and continuing consequences.

Do you want to talk about his vote for the bankruptcy bill or the numerous other reasons Biden blows chunks?

Is your effort at substantiation indicative that you will also attempt to document the supposed but actually nonexistent harm to national security from whistleblowers too, or are you just making an exception to stoop into the gutter for Biden?

A

The biggest difference between Biden and the Bush administration is that the former wanted to avoid war and the latter wanted to rush into it.

The next biggest difference was, once the effort in Iraq had become a complete disaster by 2005, Biden was the only one who worked with those in and out of Iraq to find a solution to correct US policy there. His sense of the senate resolution making it US policy to promote and facilitate federalism in Iraq passed the senate by an unprecedented bipartisan majority of 75 to 23 - a gift that the Bush team sabotaged and rejected outright.

I can do this all day.

So, Biden wasn't saying that Saddam had chemical weapons, much less nuclear weapons or a nuclear weapons program.

You might ask why, then, did Biden want to give Bush the authority to go to war. Because, as Biden explained succinctly during the AUMF debate on the floor of the Senate in October 2002, he wanted the president to have the full support of Congress behind the threat of military force to keep sanctions on Iraq and weapons inspectors in Iraq - both of which were in jeopardy at the time. This was the context of the AUMF debate, as Biden clearly stated on the floor of the senate, in October 2002. You can check the transcript if you wish.

In other words, Biden wanted to make it more difficult for the president to rush to war and, instead, exhaust all other options, non-military and diplomatic, to avoid war and keep Saddam boxed in and contained.

Unfortunately, Biden and Luger were undercut by the actions of Rep. Dick Gephardt who was negotiating with the president to achieve the AUMF that was finally put on the table.

Wikipedia is wrong if it says Biden thought Saddam had a nuclear weapons program. Biden said that Saddam wanted to acquire nuclear weapons and would do so if the opportunity presented.

Biden's views on Saddams supposed nuclear weapons program was the opposite of what Bush, Cheney, Rice and even Powell was saying. Biden contradicted these officials, repeatedly.

I've got more but, I'm going to do this in bit size pieces ... because there is so much to say to correct the record on what Biden was saying and what he was not.

According to Democrats, there was no danger from nuclear weapons and Saddam Hussein... So Biden was wrong when he said "If we wait for the danger to become clear, it could be too late."

In 2002, as Chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, he stated that Saddam Hussein was "a long term threat and a short term threat to our national security" and that United States has "no choice but to eliminate the threat".[66] He also said, "I think Saddam either has to be separated from his weapons or taken out of power."[67] Biden also supported a failed resolution authorizing military action in Iraq only after the exhaustion of diplomatic efforts,[68] Biden argued that Saddam Hussein possesses chemical and biological weapons and is seeking nuclear weapons;[69] he subsequently voted in favor of authorizing the invasion of Iraq in 2003.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Joe_Biden#Iraq

The fact that Biden was wrong about nukes and Saddam Hussein doesn't take away from the man of integrity he is today...

I was in Yellowstone last summer and we just missed seeing a Grizzly and her cub on a remote trail. People were turning back but by the time we got there she was gone. I was bummed and happy at the same time.

We don't fool around here in Florida.. :D

In the here and now, you and I are on the same page when it comes to the integrity of Joe Biden..

But to deny the record and the facts is to deny reality..

Biden was wrong.. Wasn't the first time, won't be the last time...

I’m not surprised if we begin to uncover the weapons program of Saddam Hussein — because he had a weapons program.
-President George Bush, May 2003

If we wait for the danger to become clear, it could be too late.
-Joseph Biden, September 2002

Here is an interesting link about basic income

http://politicalorphans.com/milton-friedman-makes-the-case-for-a-basic-income/

You seem pretty adamant about that, Michale.

I am very familiar with Biden's views - I practically lived, ate and breathed them between 2002 and 2008.

What were the views of Bush and Hillary on WMD in Iraq during this period?

You are wrong about Biden being on the same page as Bush et al.

All you have to do is read the debate in the senate in October 2002. He didn't change his mind by early 2003.

And, that's all I'm going to say about that - I have hashed and rehashed all of this from 2002 - 2005 and I am so done with it.

Maybe one day, you will take the time to read what Biden was saying about WMD in 2002, 2003 and, in fact all throughout the Iraq fiasco.

I guess that's one reason why Biden never caught on in the 2008 race - people just don't know the first thing about him or his views on WMD in Iraq.

Sad!

Like I said..

The Demcoratic Party is leader-less and rudder-less....

I hope and pray that Ellison gets the nod...

Nothing will ensure a Trump landslide in 2020 more than Ellison as the head of the DNC.... :D

The "peace" and "tolerance" of the Left Wingery..

"If you wear an anti-Clinton shirt, you should expect to get beaten.."

In other news, Democrats are quoted as saying that a woman who wears a short skirt or low cut top "deserves" to get raped...

"They're obviously asking for it!!"
-Democratic Party

Welcome to the new Democratic Party.... :^/

I don't... :D

Biden's views on WMD is what we were discussing and, in that regard, his assessments were not the same as the Bush administration officials.

No... Biden's views on WMDs in early 2003 was what we were discussing..

Not his views on WMDs in 2007 after the Iraq War went sideways, politically...

There was absolutely NO DAYLIGHT between Biden and Hillary and Bush vis a vis Iraq WMDs in early 2003....

This is well-documented..

You really are missing out on a lot by ignoring Biden.

Biden voted for the war in Iraq.

He was complicit.

A

If you look at the evidence released when the Chinese were accused of hacking, the specific details were included.

Impartial security experts could analyze it.

That isn't being done in this case.
Methods and sources are suddenly vital again.

I acknowledge your argument and your faith in known liars, but disagree that the justifications for keeping the information secret are valid, and I think it stinks to high heaven.

As for comment 174, the "conservative new culture" includes arming "rebels" affiliated with al Qaida in Syria, continuing programs that violate the Constitution, and two "leaders" who lied to Congress on the record.
The PR about reform isn't convincing.
And let's not forget that according to the believers, the head of the FBI was evil and untrustworthy too a mere few weeks ago.

You seem to be sweeping an awful lot under the rug when expressing faith in these people.

A

Snowden didn't want all the documents released.
He made that clear in his first public statement.
He wanted the programs that violated the constitutional rights of Americans and the privacy rights of people globally exposed, but considers much of what the NSA does to be important and necessary.

Snowden and Glenn Greenwald have been getting flak for the information released and the information kept hidden ever since.

Maybe it's news to you, but the pros and cons of the differing approaches have been widely discussed for years.

Personally, I lean towards the full transparency side, but that's mainly because much of journalism has become so sullied by their catering to the establishment and the abdication of their role as the fourth estate.
But I do trust that GG has ensured that the material that deserved to be exposed was exposed.
I wish more journalists were like him.

A

Because you really do seem to be unaware of a few things, I'm going to post this link to a MTP show with then Senator Biden speaking about WMD and Iraq.

If you choose to listen, you will be better informed.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/18381961/ns/meet_the_press/t/mtp-transcript-april/#.WHxL2Msixjo

As much as Obama wrote his books and Hillary wrote her books and Bubba wrote his books..

But, of course, there are different standards for those with a '-D' after their name..

Fox News good enough for you?

It's never been good enough for you...

Look away.

So, you are saying you never said you would accept the election results?? :D

Altohone:

This was 14 years ago and is one of the biggest embarrassments that some in the IC have had in their career. Many have left the agencies and also there is a new culture that is far more conservative in their approach (I have a co-worker who used to work at the NSA and saw the changes himself).

Your premise seems to be that the IC is either venal or incapable of learning from mistakes. I would not agree with either.

When the IC plus the FBI present their assessments and even top Republicans acknowledge that Russia interfered to harm Clinton's election chances, I think the charges deserve serious consideration.

I guess there is no way to tell a mark that he is a mark.

My uncle was a top executive at BP and spent a lot of time in the Middle East. He thought that most of the Arabs were neophytes when it came to business and negotiations, however he had a great respect for the Persians. He even learned Farsi to help dealing with them.

Trump hasn't successfully negotiated anything beyond putting him name on some buildings. He has six bankruptcies and a string of lawsuits for defaulting on contractors, fraud and other desperate business practices.

I'm really hoping Trump goes nowhere near the Iranians, it won't work out well for the U.S.

All of those people cited fabricated intelligence to sell the war in Iraq which they supported or voted for.

Obviously, their views didn't differ that wildly.

All were complicit. Some claim their gullibility or trust in our intelligence and leaders justifies their complicity, but there was ample public evidence debunking the fabricated claims before those Democrats and a whole bunch more voted for the war.

Since you're an expert on defending the indefensible actions of the neoliberals and therefore don't need to substantiate your claims, there's no point in discussing it further though.

Your "nah un" has been noted.

A

http://nation.foxnews.com/2017/01/16/trump-calls-nato-obsolete-and-predicts-more-countries-will-leave-eu

Look away.

The man who wrote the Art of the Deal is ashamed his work helped get Trump elected. You don't actually think Trump wrote that book, do you?

Just like you haven't earned the right to see the evidence against Russia.

But at least other people have seen the intelligence reports. Nobody has seen Trump's plan for ISIS, replacing Obamacare or Iran (because they don't exist - Trump just makes up lies and the fanboys believe them.)

Yup. He isn't the legitimate President of the U.S.A. and the blind partisanship of the Republicans overlooking Russia's involvement in undermining the Clinton campaign will be a stain that will only become more rank.

The Democratic Party at work.....

People like Lewis et al are cheering these guys on...

No wonder Democrats don't want to attend Trump's inauguration... They don't want to be victims of their own terrorism...

You haven't earned the right to know the plan..

Those who support Trump have seen what Trump can do with jobs and such, so we're willing to give Trump the benefit of the doubt.. :D

The man who wrote ART OF THE DEAL can surely take those pissant terrorists in IRAN to the cleaners.. :D

Yes. He conned and cheated his way in with the help of Putin. He should be impeached on Friday.

I think I can find your quote from before the election where you claimed you would support the results of the election, regardless.. :D

Or are you just having fun with me?? :D

Trump's announcement over the weekend: EU is going to split and NATO is obsolete.

Cite???

Split the EU

Dissolve NATO

Trump's announcement over the weekend: EU is going to split and NATO is obsolete.

Yes. He conned and cheated his way in with the help of Putin. He should be impeached on Friday.

So, you agree with Lewis that Trump is not the legitimate President of the United States???

Lewis is nothing but a hysterical birther who has failed the black community over and over and over again..

Are you SURE you want to cast your lot with such a luser???

Nope, because such a claim is totally and completely contrary to the facts...

Of course Iran isn't going to renegotiate - they can only win from opening up the terms.

Of course Iran isn't going to renegotiate.. They got the sweetest deal possible from Odumbo and they are not about to let Trump take away all the goodies and bennys....

Trump will pratfall.

You have been saying that for over a year now...

Has yet to happen..

And Lewis is right:

Lewis is a moron..

It's funny how ya'all denigrated and attacked Trump because he wouldn't state that he would abide by the results of the election..

Now it's YA'ALL who aren't abiding from the results of the election..

And the sad thing is, ya'all don't even SEE how badly ya'all are wallowing in hypocrisy...

This is the genius that the minority put their future in?

And Lewis is right:

For months Trump has promised to harass the press and limit First Amendment rights. He has threatened specific news outlets, journalists, and even the owner of the Washington Post. He has promised to unleash a wave of racial and religious persecution. He has threatened political opponents and sided with violent racist groups. He has goaded his followers into acts of violence against opponents, right from the main stage of his rallies.

"He [Trump] has utterly disregarded every norm on which the legitimacy of our republic and the respect of its leadership rests. Challenged on any subject he issues confirmable, provable lies without consequence. His campaign has been cited for a practically unimaginable 1000+ violations of campaign funding laws, allegations for which they have offered no response and no defense. He has not only refused to divest himself of his businesses while in the White House, he has refused to even disclose his business interests. After a shady career marked by scams, bankruptcies, almost innumerable business failures, and a mountain of legal problems, he enters the most powerful office in the republic in defiance of every standard of ethics.

http://politicalorphans.com/john-lewis-is-right-again/

Does the name OSIRAK mean anything??? :D

Does the term Trump is a bloody idiot mean anything?

Of course Iran isn't going to renegotiate - they can only win from opening up the terms.

Trump will pratfall. By the time it happens only you and the true fanboys will be supporting him. His wall will be a failure, manufacturing won't be coming back to the rust best, coal will still be in the ground and Trump will be fighting with civil rights heroes.

Lee Greenwood is performing as well!!!

Lee Greenwood doing GOD BLESS THE USA at Trump's Inauguration!???

That's going to bring down the house!!!!!

Gods, it's a great time to be an American!!!!!!! :D

And the GOOD news for America just keeps on coming!!!

TRUMP is Making America Great Again...

And the Left just GOTS to hate that!! :D

Heh It's funny because it's true!! :D

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/iran-says-not-renegotiate-nuclear-deal-154202508.html

Iran says it won't negotiate a new nuclear deal...

Fine...

Does the name OSIRAK mean anything??? :D

That is the answer to the Left Wingers who continue to say, "Let's try the same thing.. *THIS* time it will be successful!!!! After all, the polls and the math back it up!!!"

The problem is that, when one only looks at polls and math (and science and everything else) that ONLY re-enforce one's own partisan ideology and ignores ANY information that is NOT ideologically pure, one is blind-sided by a BREXIT or shocked by a President Trump or sent reeling by the lack of a weather-based apocalypse....

One is rocked back on their ass, wondering how on earth this could have happened and how in the HELL could they be so wrong...

Of course, DiFi completely and utterly ignores how the US pumps disinformation into other country's elections..

Ya just GOT to love the unabashed, blatant and unequivocal hypocrisy, eh :D

Russians tried to influence the US election..

In other breaking news, water is wet, ice is cold and women have secrets...

There is absolutely NO FACTUAL RELEVANT EVIDENCE to indicate that Putin would want Trump as President..

There is PLENTY of factual relevant evidence that Putin would have preferred Hillary as POTUS...

So, if Russians DID try to influence the elections, then it's more likely that they would have influenced the election in favor of Hillary..

Which is *EXACTLY* what they tried to do..

But Putin didn't count on the animosity that the American people had towards Hillary and the Democratic Party...

Russia tried a double-fake and brought about the VERY condition that Russia wanted to avoid..

It's STAR TREK: ISHMEAL all over again!! :D

So, Hillary, the DNC *AND* Russia ALL got scrooed....

Life is, indeed, very good.. :D

And yet, you remained silent when the report came out and did not denounce it as you would have crowed about it if it was more within the realm of believability..

You don't do any favors to your credibility when you let such obvious bullshit pass uncommented..

You see, that is EXACTLY how I maintain my NPA status.. When I see something that is totally BS or really funny (like my Reince Preibus as Pinocchio comment :D That was a gas.. :D) I post it, regardless of any '-D'/'-R' designations..

The fact that you acknowledge that reports such as this are total BS, but you let the pass uncommented at the time of release shows that ideology and ideology alone is what drives your comments...

If you can't point out the total BS that comes from the Left, how can I believe in you when you point out the total BS that comes from the Right??

“That is a garbage document. It never should have been presented in–- as part of an intelligence briefing.”
-Bob Woodward

If any of ya'all had come up with something like that at the time of the release of the information, it would enhance ya'all's credibility...

But no one here want's to be seen taking the side of President Trump...

Which is why I state that ideology and ideology alone drives the comments here and I have the facts to back it up...

Yup, yup, yup...

Ya'all can cherry pick all the facts you want..

But the ONE SOLID FACT of the Obama era is that, when it comes to practically EVERY LITMUS TEST you can come up with, the American people are WORSE off now than they were before Obama and the Democrats so frak'ed things up...

This is undeniable with oodles and oodles of facts to support...

Yet, that is EXACTLY what *EVERY* action the CIA has taken has done...

That is the goal of Mr Obama.. To undermine the President Elect..

On Friday, the long 8-year nightmare will be over and morning will come to America and with it will bring A New Hope...

:D

You are conflating the views of several officials here. I hope you realize that these officials differed widely in their assessments of WMDs in Iraq.

Only after the fact...

The officials with the '-D' after their names had the EXACT same assessment on WMDs in Iraq that the officials with the '-R' after their names at the time of the incident...

It was only when things went politically south did the '-D' officials change their tune...

Do you suppose that is the only pertinent factor in the document dumps WikiLeaks has engaged in?

When it comes to establishing WikiLeaks credibility vs Obama's credibility... YES..

That is the ONLY pertinent factor..

You have to remember, Obama, Hillary and all the other Democrats screamed to high heavens that WikiLeaks was releasing forgeries...

That turned out to be 100% completely and unequivocally false..

So, how can we believe Obama, Hillary and all the other Democrats when they scream to the high heavens that Russia gave the info to WikiLeaks to release??

Obama, Hillary and all the other Democrats have absolutely ZERO credibility in this.... But ya'all take them at their word SOLELY because of ideology...

I am willing to entertain other possibilities...

But only possibilities that are supported by FACTS...

wink wink. No, he got them from a mail courier, I assume.

No. Assange probably got them from the DNC staffer who was brutally murdered after the DNC emails were released...

That's the spirit! Alienate every potential ally that isn't with you now.

You didn't seem have a problem alienating "every potential ally" back when you thought Trump was going to go down in a blaze of infamy...

You reap what you sow, my friend.. :D

We, on the other hand will be cultivating every disillusioned Republican that we can find.

You mean, every racist deplorable?? :D

Too bad ya'all didn't have that attitude BEFORE ya'all got yer clock's cleaned...

Ya'all might be gloating about President Elect Hillary Clinton if ya'all had.. :D

In the Senate, John McCain & Lindsay Graham look ripe to pick off on selected votes; after that, we only need what, one or two votes more? Hmmm, maybe Rand Paul and Susan Collins...

People ya'all have demonized time and time again... Funny how ya'all NOW want to be besties with them.. :D

Correct. That's why Obama's next project is attacking gerrymandering and anti-voting laws, along with Eric Holder. Even a small amount of success in this area by those two could reap huge rewards.

Isn't it funny how ya'all's explanations of the HUGE losses by the Democratic Party are NEVER the fault of the ideology of the Democratic Party...

It's *ALWAYS* someone else's fault or something else's fault...

ANYTHING so ya'all don't have to look in the mirror and say, "Ya know, maybe it's us...."

The TAKE NO RESPONSIBILITY PARTY.. That's Democrats for ya....

Trump is going to build the Wall using your money (about $1,000 per person in the country, maybe more), but he has promised Mexico is going to pay.

You see, this is exactly my point on ya'all's hysteria..

You don't KNOW what's going to happen with the wall..

You hysterically claim the worst about Trump SOLELY because of the '-R' after his name..

It's EXACTLY like the Right Wingery Birthers...

And there goes any credibility when you tell us we only say or think something because of -R or -D after their name.

My NPA status is well-documented and well-acknowledged... :D

All you are is a Republican Trump fanboy.

I am pro Trump, not pro Republican..

That's why you don't get it. You view EVERYTHING thru the lens of ideology...

Trump is not ideological... This is well-established..

You and Trump both trust Assange more than our military and it is getting tiresome. And anti-American.

What does the military have to do with anything??

I trust Assange more than Obama because Assange has NEVER lied about anything to do with WikiLeaks and Obama and his agencies has lied about EVERYTHING....

Cyber security experts say that the facts released thus far do not prove Russian let alone Russian government involvement in the DNC or Podesta email leaks.

Correct. However the IC seems pretty adamant that Russia was involved. We have to decide between:

"Pretty adamant"?? That's your proof??

"Oh well, they are pretty adamant so it MUST be factual"

:D

Where is the conclusive proof??

There is none...

So, the ONLY reason that these agencies are "pretty adamant" is because Obama *TOLD* them to be "pretty adamant"...

Like I said (and I noticed you ignored) let's see how "pretty adamant" Obama's agencies are when they become Trump's agencies..

If they are still "pretty adamant" then, then we can talk..

I have been accused of taking #1 as most likely because I have antipathy towards Trump and/or Republicans and that is my sole criteria for deciding.

Because you have a history of claiming things about Trump that turned out to be wrong at every juncture...

I also understand the claim that since there was a lot of #2 and #3 in the intelligence claims preceding the Iraq war, the IC isn't always as reliable as it should be. I wasn't on CW.com in 2003 however I posted to other sites my thoughts on how weak I thought the intelligence was, how I thought that Colin Powell's first reaction was correct (he sneered at the intelligence), and that I thought the IC was in cahoots with the Bush 2 administration to engineer the Iraq war whatever it took.

EXACTLY...

You sneered at the IC because they were a Republican's IC...

Now, you whole-heartedly jump into bed with the IC because NOW the IC is a Democrat's IC...

Will you still support the IC when the IC becomes Trump's IC??

No, you won't...

It's ALL about the '-X' after the name..

Correct. However the IC seems pretty adamant that Russia was involved. We have to decide between:

1. The intelligence community has more information that isn't public and would compromise sources or source gathering if it was released.

2. They are over reaching

3. They are fabricating

I've listed these in the order of my take on the situation, many others will have a different take. I have been accused of taking #1 as most likely because I have antipathy towards Trump and/or Republicans and that is my sole criteria for deciding. Since I do have antipathy towards them the claim is understandable, however wrong. I think the "golden shower" claims are mostly in the #2 or #3 category (I'm just winding up the Trumpistas by playing back some of the unfounded nonsense they threw at Hillary to amuse myself).

I also understand the claim that since there was a lot of #2 and #3 in the intelligence claims preceding the Iraq war, the IC isn't always as reliable as it should be. I wasn't on CW.com in 2003 however I posted to other sites my thoughts on how weak I thought the intelligence was, how I thought that Colin Powell's first reaction was correct (he sneered at the intelligence), and that I thought the IC was in cahoots with the Bush 2 administration to engineer the Iraq war whatever it took.

Do you suppose that is the only pertinent factor in the document dumps WikiLeaks has engaged in?

Bush, Cheney, Powell, Hillary, Biden, Kerry, etc. rambled on and on about WMD's in Iraq using aluminum tubes and yellowcake and blah blah blah "facts" intentionally leaked to the press by the fabricators of those claims.

You are conflating the views of several officials here. I hope you realize that these officials differed widely in their assessments of WMDs in Iraq.

Cyber security experts say that the facts released thus far do not prove Russian let alone Russian government involvement in the DNC or Podesta email leaks.

You are trusting claims from people who we know lied to Congress and the American people about surveillance... people whose job descriptions require lying.

You can believe them if you want, but it is only a FACT that they made the claims, it's not a fact that the claims are true.

Bush, Cheney, Powell, Hillary, Biden, Kerry, etc. rambled on and on about WMD's in Iraq using aluminum tubes and yellowcake and blah blah blah "facts" intentionally leaked to the press by the fabricators of those claims.

The neolibcons who lied in order to take our country into an illegal war knew that empty assertion wasn't convincing.

I find it amazing that two Hillary supporters are so convinced by unsubstantiated claims about "secret evidence" from untrustworthy sources.
It's like Iraq never happened.

Until they release the evidence, it's just empty assertion.

And, yes, unlike everybody making the claims about Russia, Assange has never done anything that would cause me to distrust him.
Wikileaks has a literally perfect record for only releasing authentic documents.
That's a record of integrity that our intelligence agencies and politicians can only dream about... not to mention the media.

A

Not a government run trial, A, but there is one announced by a VC firm for Oakland, CA:

https://techcrunch.com/2016/05/31/y-combinator-announces-basic-income-pilot-experiment-in-oakland/

I can't find any more details, but it is an idea whose time may be coming.

Was just reading about the basic income trial in Finland on the BBC.

They noted-
"?Four Dutch cities - Groningen, Tilburg, Utrecht and Wageningen - are to take part in a trial
?The Canadian province of Ontario will hold its own experiment
?Scottish councils in Fife and Glasgow may also stage a trial"

It's even a center-right government in Finland right now... a tidbit the author of the article seemed to stress as surprising.

So, maybe there is a snowball's chance in limbo we could see a trial in the US before we are both dead.

A

“Yes, I’ve had the great good fortune to be born into a life of wealth and privilege, with a name to match,” she writes. “Yes, I’ve had every opportunity, every advantage. And yes, I’ve chosen to build my career on a foundation built by my father and grandfather.” But nevertheless, “[i]n business, as in life, nothing is ever handed to you.”

Like father, like daughter, I guess...

wink wink. No, he got them from a mail courier, I assume.

Democrats suck... That's all there is to it

That's the spirit! Alienate every potential ally that isn't with you now. We, on the other hand will be cultivating every disillusioned Republican that we can find. In the Senate, John McCain & Lindsay Graham look ripe to pick off on selected votes; after that, we only need what, one or two votes more? Hmmm, maybe Rand Paul and Susan Collins...

How do we know this?? Because Democrats have lost over 1000 seats in politics that have absolutely NOTHING to do with Russian hacking.

Correct. That's why Obama's next project is attacking gerrymandering and anti-voting laws, along with Eric Holder. Even a small amount of success in this area by those two could reap huge rewards.

You and Trump both trust Assange more than our military and it is getting tiresome. And anti-American.

And there goes any credibility when you tell us we only say or think something because of -R or -D after their name.

All you are is a Republican Trump fanboy. Accept it, it won't exactly be a surprise to us, and we really don't care.

Fortunately he is sending everybody in the U.S. a Mail-In Rebate for their $1,000 to send to Mexico.

There is obviously a processing time that the Mexicans require to handle 300 million rebate claims, at the moment the delay is:

UNTIL HELL FREEZES OVER

I'll check back on the rebate website every so often and let you know if this changes. Calls to Trump are not being answered.

Unless ya'all have ANY *FACTUAL* and relevant facts to counter his claim, his claim stands as valid..

Let's face it.. Ya'all WANT it to be true because that gives ya'all an excuse for not having to face reality..

And that reality is that the American people are sick and tired of Democrat malfeasance and incompetence...

How do we know this?? Because Democrats have lost over 1000 seats in politics that have absolutely NOTHING to do with Russian hacking...

Democrats suck... That's all there is to it...

Not according to everybody else on the planet except you, Trump and Putin. I wonder why?

If you think that after 12 months ot throwing the kitchen sink and Mitt Romney at Trump the RNC doesn't have even worse stuff in their emails you need to go study Father Dougie's picture a LOT more.

Again you are making things up that nobody is saying then telling us they aren't true. Why do you bother to do this? Is it because you can't address the reality of the situation so you need to create some false story yourself?