Your right wing "Snowden and Manning are evil" position is duly noted.

Funny how so many Obama and Hillary supporters side with the anti-whistleblower Republicans.

My "right wing" position? Well this is a first; I've never been described as a rightie before. I never said they were "evil," and I don't think they actually are "evil." I do think they are traitors (the legal definition). I don't "side with the Republicans," my opinions are based on facts.

Should I presume that you believe that none of the information they've made available is anything that Americans deserve to know about?

I have no idea why you would presume anything, but the answer to the question seemingly within a question is "no."

That's quite a lot of faith in our government (both the Bush and Obama admins in case you don't realize what you're saying)... I wonder if it will hold up for the next four years?

I know the entire history of the NSA and PRISM. At one point, I held a security clearance myself. I do realize exactly what I am saying more than you will possibly ever know. The next four years? I'd rather not think about that at the present time.

It would serve people well to realize that "our government" is a collection of "we the people"... from the very top of the chain with the POTUS all the way down to the bottom of the chain with the 18-year-old grunt entering military service. "Our government" is not a scary entity to me, it's a group of professionals and non-professionals in public service. Manning and Snowden were two of those people making up what we refer to as "our government." They took an oath to protect and defend the Constitution and our country from enemies both foreign and domestic. Breaking that oath and breaking the law is grounds for punishment. They both knew that going in. Disclosing information in good faith as a whistleblower does not excuse disclosing information that goes beyond that definition and might possibly harm America or any of our people.

Manning: While I sympathize with his/her emotional issues (which I won't discuss), it does not excuse his crimes.

Snowden: Don't get me started on him, seriously.... DO. NOT. GET. ME. STARTED. ON. SNOWDEN.

I will say:

* Writing an "open letter" to Brazil in an attempt to obtain political asylum by offering to assist Brazil with investigation of United States surveillance because you leaked information about the U.S. spying on the Brazilian government is NOT "standing up for the Constitutional rights of Americans."

* I see no connection whatsoever to our Constitution in Snowden's leak of documents that pertained to al-Qaeda’s efforts to shoot down or hack drones of the United States.

* Two million documents (he could not possibly have reviewed as he claimed).

Snowden wanted to be famous. He tried other means of becoming famous and failed. He's a self-serving fame-seeking lying POS. How can "our government" of "we the people" continue to function when its employees and contractors decide to take it upon themselves to sabotage our processes and programs they morally disagree with... the arrogance of his ilk making decisions for the rest of us is beyond the pale. He deserves whatever they give him and more. Enough said about the arrogance and narcissism of Snowden.

polls, approval ratings and miserable election results don't back it up... so, no, I'm not going to "trust you".

I didn't ask you to "trust" me; I said believe me. You'll believe what you wish no matter what I say and no matter how correct I am so...

I will say that polls look really good when your oppo file is barely scratched and no one is tearing you down because they'd rather run against you versus your opponent. A candidate who can't get the support of the black community is not going to be the nominee of the Democratic Party. Bernie couldn't so he wasn't.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/5/23/1529938/-11-reasons-why-Bernie-Sanders-lost-this-thing-fair-and-square

They didn't influence the outcome at all, right?

You like to presume a lot. I didn't say that. The DNC wanted a Democrat to be their nominee. Is that so surprising? Bernie Sanders is not a Democrat.

They probably just wanted to spend more time with their families.

Or maybe you just don't believe the evidence because it was from Wikileaks, even though none of it was shown to be inaccurate?

You presume way too much.

There's nothing like the side with a thumb on the scale claiming democracy prevailed.

More presumption. Boo hoo. Bernie got less votes. If he had been able to get support from communities of color, he'd have been the nominee, just like Barack Obama became the nominee in 2008 when the DNC had favored Clinton then also.

Not exactly logical in my book.

Your book? *LOL* Should I presume your book is a work of fiction of your own making, misclassified as non-fiction in your very own little library?

If you presume too much about people you know nothing about, you're naturally going to frequently come to the wrong conclusions based on your own misguided assumptions and presumptions. :)

For you, I promise to read it and give it a fair shake... :D

BTW, Michale, you'll be very interested to read a piece which will soon be posted in the Huffington Post, revealing some very interesting observations about Secretary Clinton and President-elect Trump.

Now, I know what you're gonna say about the Huffington Post but, you miss out on some very important essays just because they happen to be posted at a site you don't favour.

I'll post a link to it as soon as I can but, for now, I just wanted to give you a quick heads-up in the hopes that you may seriously consider reading and discussing it ...

Well, I agree that the designation MAY change...

But it is simply undeniable that A LOT of Republicans hate Trump as much as a LOT of Democrats do..

And a LOT of Democrats love Trump as much as a LOT of Republicans do...

In my book, that is the epitome of what constitutes a political "INDEPENDENT"...

I grant you, that may change in the future... Trump MAY earn the moniker of DEMOCRAT or REPUBLICAN in the future...

But in the here and now...

Trump is as INDEPENDENT or NPA as they come....

That's my story and I am stickin' to it!! :D

I think we'll have to wait and see what kind of administration the president-elect puts together before assigning an Independent designation to him or it ...

Trump is the first President who is nearly hated by Republicans as much as Democrats..

If that's not INDEPENDENT, nothing is. :D

That is why I am a registered NPA and voted for Trump. The first TRULY Independent President in my lifetime... :D

I'm not sure what you mean by 'TRULY Independent' ... or, what that a little joke. Heh.

[125] Always the condescending mean girl.

I resemble that remark. :)

Doing great, thanx... Pushing my arm WAY too much, but the bills don't stop just because body parts are falling off... :D

They sure as hell were wrong about Trump not being able to win, eh???

You seem to forget that I am a registered NPA.. NO Political Affiliation...

Yes and about bloody time too. The filibuster is an obstructional and anti-democratic practice.

SO, you CHEER when the Democrats do it, but condemn the Republicans when you think THEY are going to do it...

And the logic of that is.....????? What exactly???

I give them credit for that, not blame.

But you WOULD blame the GOP for doing the exact same thing...

There's a word for that.. :D

Of course they didn't, not then. At the time they didn't own all three branches of government in addition to more than two-thirds of the states. But they do now. The playing field has radically changed. I expect the filibuster will be consigned to the dust of history on the first day of the 115th Congress and good riddance.

Wager?? :D

Michale -

Oh, I aspire to much MUCH more..

I'm sure we're all looking forward to finding out what that is. :D

PS: You had better be taking good care of yourself! How are you feeling now?

Michale -

And many on the Right said the EXACT same thing about Democrats and the Democrat Party...

Whaaaaa? You're actually suggesting that "many on the Right" were actually wrong about something?

It was the Democrats who thru the first nuke...

Yes and about bloody time too. The filibuster is an obstructional and anti-democratic practice.

The GOP didn't nuke the filibuster when they first got control of the Senate. There is absolutely no reason to think they will do it now...

Of course they didn't, not then. At the time they didn't own all three branches of government in addition to more than two-thirds of the states. But they do now. The playing field has radically changed. I expect the filibuster will be consigned to the dust of history on the first day of the 115th Congress and good riddance.

But if they do, the Democrats only have themselves to blame..

They tossed the first nuke...

I give them credit for that, not blame.

That is why I am a registered NPA and voted for Trump. The first TRULY Independent President in my lifetime... :D

Michale

Michale-

And that's who you want to measure up to???

Well, it's good enough for you, Michale, and as the saying goes: "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em."

Touché!

It was good enough for you republicans.

And that's who you want to measure up to???

Yer not mean..... :D

Always the condescending mean girl.

Do you REALLY want to slam a person for playing golf??? REALLY??

It was good enough for you republicans.

"As I've already stated, Hillary is not an inspiring candidate, she is just the best qualified for the job. That should have been enough, and I believe if she had seen the real cause of the anger from the "forgotten" she would have been able to adjust her message accordingly"

The causes of the anger were the economic policies that Hillary supported.

That alone is proof she was never the best qualified.

But Liz is right.
Inspiring voters to vote is the first required qualification. Winning is the necessary first step.

A

I agree with your assessment.
Hillary was incapable of making the changes necessary to win, except that I believe that even if she had tried, it wouldn't have been believable.

However, my comment wasn't about Hillary at all.
I was asking someone to explain the actions of her supporters right now.

Hillary is gone.
The Clinton's are no longer relevant to the Democratic party except as a lesson on what not to do.

The party is stuck with her supporters though.
They need to be rehabilitated.
Or the needed lesson will not be learned.

A

Then you missed Trump's victory speech? He called Priebus up to the podium and said there was 'not one minute' of discord between them. He all but gave his buddy Reince brotherly noogies.

And he also said Hillary was awesome and thanked her for her service...

That doesn't mean he wouldn't show her the door if she got in the way of his governing..

So it is with the GOP..

Let me be clear..

Trump owes NO ALLEGIANCE to the Republican Party..

ZERO.... ZIP.... NADA..... NONE......

I'll give ya'all a hint.. Look to the 2014 mid-term elections for your answers.....

Certainly, and I think you would be hard pressed to find those who would disagree.

Apparently, only you and I seem to agree on this... :^/

It sure would.. Give him team.. Right now, he is beefing up his security forces, what with all the death threats and all....

That should read, GIVE HIM TIME...

My bust...

nobody understood the depth of support Trump had with the white vote in the rural and semi-rural areas of the rust belt.

Yes, someone did!!!

But it was someone YOU refused to listen to....

That's ALL on you, my friend...

Someone tried to warn you of the coming "doom" and all you did was stick yer fingers in your ears and say, "neener, neener, neener, I'm Not Listening To You"

THAT is your biggest take-away from this election...

And many on the Right said the EXACT same thing about Democrats and the Democrat Party...

That's why in the 115th Congress, the Senate will nuke the filibuster, because the republicans know they will never need it again.

It was the Democrats who thru the first nuke...

The GOP didn't nuke the filibuster when they first got control of the Senate. There is absolutely no reason to think they will do it now...

But if they do, the Democrats only have themselves to blame..

They tossed the first nuke...

Not a damn thing.

What would you have him do???

Probably too busy arranging his next golf game with the Russian ambassador.

Do you REALLY want to slam a person for playing golf??? REALLY?? :D

And it isn't a case of wanting Trump to fail, it's a case of knowing that such failure is inevitable.

No one can know the future..

Well, except me, apparently.. :D

Did you predict the strength of support in these communities that put Trump over the top? Were you calling Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin for Trump? I don't know anybody who was.

Yes you do. You simply refuse to read my comments...

"YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!!"
-Jack Nicholson, A FEW GOOD MEN

:D

At the same token don't you think it would be a good thing for him to put his money where his campaign promises are?

IN what way???

Especially given that the majority in this country voted for the losing candidate...albeit a very small majority but a majority none the less. Would an announcement of him starting to bring back his manufacturing jobs not go along way to helping mend that fence?

It sure would.. Give him team.. Right now, he is beefing up his security forces, what with all the death threats and all....

https://youtu.be/niVNAM4s5Fg?t=5m40s

Poor Donkey. Hey... I just realized mine is actually kind of political because of Donkey... Sad!

Try this one on ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_NpxTWbovE

She would recite Cohen lyrics as poetry and had the prettiest face when she cried and smiled at the end. She left me for an older guy - everybody but me saw that one coming, it turned out. It was a bummer and I remember thinking that Cohen had predicted it all for me. I've avoided him ever since, obviously to my detriment.

I was just as much of a fool as a teenager as I am today.

Miss you Jacqui.

Do you have a favourite Leonard Cohen song?

Try to understand before one of us passes away (I'm channeling your penchant for condescension and it feels good), nobody understood the depth of support Trump had with the white vote in the rural and semi-rural areas of the rust belt. Trump blabbered on about it, but since about 75% of everything he says he makes up as he goes along, who knew he'd get lucky and get this one right.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrLk4vdY28Q

Everybody knows that the dice are loaded
Everybody rolls with their fingers crossed
Everybody knows that the war is over
Everybody knows the good guys lost
Everybody knows the fight was fixed
The poor stay poor, the rich get rich
That's how it goes
Everybody knows

Everybody Knows - Leonard Cohen - 1988

RIP - you will be missed on those times when I need to listen to the blues.

Indeed.

What did Hillary do to counteract all of that?

Nada.

She didn't.

Then, she lost.

Deal with it.

That's the dilemma facing the Democrat Party...

No, that's not the dilemma facing the Democratic Party (there is no such thing as the Democrat Party and, as far as I know, never has been).

Why? Because the Democratic Party will be systematically eradicated by republicans who now have supreme power over the country and all its people. They will not govern, they will rule. And they will never ever give up the power they now have. They will expand that power instead.

That's why in the 115th Congress, the Senate will nuke the filibuster, because the republicans know they will never need it again.

After the 2018 elections, I fully expect the republicans to have at least 70 senators and after 2020, they will have 90+.

They will also increase their majority in the House until it is at least 400+.

Democrats no longer have any power whatsoever. There is nothing they can say or do that will have any influence or effect whatsoever. The Bernie supporters who witter on about Bernie being a voice "for the people" in the 115th Congress, is delusional. The same is true for Elizabeth Warren fans. And I have yet to meet anyone who has the slightest regard for Chuck Schumer.

The Democrats might as well do a Rubio and not bother turning up at all. It will save them a lot of impotent angst.

'Anxious and fearful' students demand day off to cry about Trump
College students at several schools have started petitions urging their universities and professors to cancel classes in the wake of Donald Trump’s electoral victory, citing “emotional distress.”
Petitions have sprung up at Loyola University, Bryn Mawr University, and Johns Hopkins University, but so far none of the schools have acceded to the demands.

And what, may I ask, has the president-elect done about this?

Nothing

Not a damn thing.

Probably too busy arranging his next golf game with the Russian ambassador.

"Wanting Donald Trump to fail is like wanting the pilot of a plane that we are ALL in to crash..."

I would consider crashing to be far and away the better of the two options presented here.

And it isn't a case of wanting Trump to fail, it's a case of knowing that such failure is inevitable.

As Trump gained momentum, as he marched towards the GOP nomination, his message started to resonate with these entire communities – including those that were doing well economically. Many solidly middle-class Americans have friends, relatives, or congregants who are suffering.

More than that, supporting Trump has become a way of showing support for their failing communities. It had become tribal: entire communities were joining the back-row kids.

No Elizabeth, Clinton worked with kids, the African-American community in inner cities, etc. I'm happy to admit that I didn't expect so many rural white voters to fall for an obvious con man, or knew what he was but did not care. Did you predict the strength of support in these communities that put Trump over the top? Were you calling Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin for Trump? I don't know anybody who was. The best reporting we got from this area was done by a reporter from the bloody British Guardian Newspaper (see below). The pollsters missed it in spades.

The Guardian's Chris Arnade received his PhD in physics from Johns Hopkins University in 1992. He spent the next 20 years working as a trader on Wall Street. He left trading in 2012 to focus on photography.

Look at what he wrote on November 3rd:

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/nov/03/trump-supporters-us-elections

Certainly, and I think you would be hard pressed to find those who would disagree.

At the same token don't you think it would be a good thing for him to put his money where his campaign promises are?

It would certainly be a good indicator of how he actually intends to govern...

Especially given that the majority in this country voted for the losing candidate...albeit a very small majority but a majority none the less. Would an announcement of him starting to bring back his manufacturing jobs not go along way to helping mend that fence?

ESPECIALLY when you consider that Democrats only picked up a single Senate seat and lost a buttload of State positions...

Two senate seats... better than losing two senate seats, given the outcome of the presidential election.

Today's column will be late, and may not appear at all. Hopefully, the wait will be worth it in the end.

Oh, and I've freed up that comment from the filter for altohone... just FYI... (the Glenn Greenwald thing). Sorry for the delay.

-CW

It's nice to see that there is universal acceptance of the election results around here...

That is a very pleasant non-surprise.......

Depends on what job we're talking about...

If the JOB is to be a mealy mouthed politician who takes a focus group before making a decision, who says whatever someone wants to hear just to get a donation and who has a PUBLIC position and a TOTALLY different position in Private...

Yea... If THAT is the job you are referring to, then Hillary is PERFECT for that job.... :^/

Thank gods, TRUMP is President...

Who would have thunked that???

Oh... Wait.....

:D

Ding, Ding, Ding!!! We have a winner...

That is EXACTLY why Trump won....

He took his message into Hillary territory...... Crisscrossing Michigan and Pennsylvania and Ohio and Wisconsin......

THAT is why Trump won....

See what happens when you decide that the facts aren't worth listening to??

You look like a doofus wondering how it all could have gone so bad...

Had you been reading my comments instead of hiding from the FACTS, this would not have come as such a shock....... :D

Being the best qualified for the job is simply not good enough when you are trying to reach millions of voters who, unlike you, do not pay attention to politics and are not equipped to discern who is the candidate that best represents them and offers the best solutions to their problems.

Hillary, like most candidates, spent too much time preaching to the choir at events made for political junkies and activists and the like. That's not how you reach the people you need to win ... at least, not in this campaign.

Hillary Clinton should have seen the anger, understood the anger and reacted to it in a way that resonated with these potential voters because her entire campaign centered around her constant portrayal of her experience working for those very people!

Ahem... Speak fer yerself, Bub.... :D

I have been talking about that depth of anger for almost a year now....

Vindication, thy name is Michale....

{sniffle} I am so proud.... :D

Ok....So when exactly is Trump planning on bringing his manufacturing for his products back to the US?

I'll give him a call and ask...

I'll let you know...

But, can we at least agree that THIS is a GOOD thing to do???

It has begun...

Democrats start eating Democrats.....

It's little matter what I *want*...

Ya'all have proven beyond ANY doubt that Trump has no more allegiance to the GOP that he has to the Democrat Party..

An unqualified con artist by any other name is still an unqualified con artist,

And an unqualified con artist simply could NOT have been the hugely successful businessman that Trump undeniably is...

Oh, the pluralis majestatis. Okay then. For a minute there, I thought you -- NOT the "royal you" -- were getting all personal. :)

Perish the thought... :D

But following Alex Jones?

Just like ya'all follow HuffPoop and DailyKO$

and various assorted and ridiculous BS from the fringe...... please :)

Back atcha :D

Usually elections have "soccer mums" or "Nascar dads". In fact, I think CW had a column on the swing demographic this time round and we were all focused on "Chardonnay moms" or something like that.

All the pollsters, plus myself and maybe everybody else on this thread missed the depth of anger that let people not care what a hideous creep Trump is and vote for him (I don't see Michale's comments any longer for obvious reasons, but back when I had the patience for him he was pointing out a general malaise that he claimed the rest of us were missing - if he would only drop the confrontation and false attribution, etc., etc., etc. ad nauseum).

As I've already stated, Hillary is not an inspiring candidate, she is just the best qualified for the job. That should have been enough, and I believe if she had seen the real cause of the anger from the "forgotten" she would have been able to adjust her message accordingly.

Again.. A royal "you".... :D

Oh, the pluralis majestatis. Okay then. For a minute there, I thought you -- NOT the "royal you" -- were getting all personal. :)

I follow where the conversation goes... :D

But following Alex Jones? Spare me the chemtrail, Jade Helm, false flags, and various assorted and ridiculous BS from the fringe...... please :)

Ok....So when exactly is Trump planning on bringing his manufacturing for his products back to the US?

You may misjudge all you like, but the simple fact is that I was saying constantly that this was an ESTABLISHMENT ELECTION vs an ANTI-ESTABLISHMENT and there is NO WAY that 80% of of Americans would allow an ESTABLISHMENT candidate to win...

Permission to midjudge... excellent! Yet it appears the majority of people, 60,000,000+ have in fact voted for the "establishment" candidate. If 80% of the electorate had voted for Trump there wouldn't be so many people in the streets carrying signs and protesting (not my thing, BTW), and then I'd say you were DOB accurate, but they didn't... so.... :)

There is an excellent article coming soon, after Veterans Day, on the legacy of the Clintons that I will post a link to on the current thread here.

It'll be a real eye-opener! :)

I still would like to know if it's legally possible for Trump to renounce his GOP membership and declare himself an NPA..

I would also be interested in the thoughts of ya'all if Trump actually DID that....

I respect the office of the presidency no matter who holds it or what party affiliation they hold. I don't necessarily respect the person who holds the office. An unqualified con artist by any other name is still an unqualified con artist, and I have high hopes that he surrounds himself with capable persons no matter what their political affiliation. "Our government" is run by a collection of "we the people" from the presidency at the top down to the grunt entering the military... along with many others who take the oath.

Let it permeate your misguided notion about the "D" and the "R" nonsense, at least where I am concerned. I might have voted for John Kasich if he were nominee of the GOP. True fact. :)

Trump has identified a passionate voting group. I don't buy that they were motivated primarily by racism or social issues - they want good jobs, a decent community to live in, and some respect. This is a Democratic strength.

Then explain why Hillary failed to fully recognize and adequately address this voting group and other voters who stayed home and who really needed to hear an uplifting message from the Democratic nominee that demonstrated she understood their problems and how to make their lives better.

And, why didn't she communicate clearly how the economic policies of the Democrats are far superior to those of the Republican cult of economic failure? She would have done better to acknowledge the difficulties that Clinton trade policies have created and what she can do to mitigate against them.

And, that's just for starters.

Trump has absolutely ZERO allegiance to the RNC...

Which is good for America....

What we wish to be and what "is" are sometimes two different things. I know you want Trump to be an Independent, but he's already crashed the G.O. Party and rode its elephant to a win. If he were truly the cash rich and successful businessman he claimed to be, he could afford to shoot the elephant, but he's really not that guy... so he can't... at least not right away, but things could get interesting maybe later. :)

Looks great to me!! Let's get started.... :D

Word......

Everything? Seriously? Did I write this column?

Again.. A royal "you".... :D

Anyone who wants to inject race into the election says more about them than it does about the election...

See your comment at [28] with the link to Alex Jones conspiracy website about blacks beating up a poor white Trump voter. :) Note to self.....

I follow where the conversation goes... :D

Can anybody explain this?

I would say simply that a deep sense of entitlement coupled with a certain and dangerous complacency rendered Hillary unable - at any time, even over the course of a very, very long campaign - to assess the situation, learn from it and make critical adjustments.

So, you are agreeing with GG you just didn't like the terminology?

I guess that means that kick was agreeing with GG too.

Whatever.

Thanks for trying to clarify.

A

That's right. But, we were bringing this up well before she lost when there was still time to turn her campaign around.

IF you want to unnecessarily reduce everything to race, I won't bother trying to stop you..

Everything? Seriously? Did I write this column?

Anyone who wants to inject race into the election says more about them than it does about the election...

See your comment at [28] with the link to Alex Jones conspiracy website about blacks beating up a poor white Trump voter. :) Note to self.....

Hillary was definitely not an inspirational or exciting candidate. If she had won nobody would be bringing this up however. They would be focused on what a disaster Trump is for the Republicans (and he still might be - he has raised high expectations with a lot of very pissed off people who will be very open to a midterm message that Trump has gone native and is just looking out for the elites by a firebrand on the left looking to make a mark for 2020).

Trump has identified a passionate voting group. I don't buy that they were motivated primarily by racism or social issues - they want good jobs, a decent community to live in, and some respect. This is a Democratic strength.

So while I can Monday morning quarterback Hillary with the best of them, she is out of the picture and now we need the Trump slayer to arise, phoenix-like from the ashes and force Trump to defend his "forgotten" wing while trying to keep the evangelicals, the libertarians, and the country club crowd happy.

That's the dilemma facing the Democrat Party...

Ironic..

ALL the discussions the past few months were of the Republican Party self-destructing...

While it was the Democrat Party that was on life-support....

Lemme know if I can be of any help... :D

Nicely said.
Too nicely.

That's like saying the Challenger wasn't a flawed shuttle, or the Hindenburg wasn't a flawed zeppelin.

If Dems like Balthy remain stuck in the denial phase, the party will never recover.

The boggling part is that these types who are all too common somehow feel the need to try to redeem an image forever tarnished by utter failure.

What possible purpose does it serve? Is it a self-preservation tactic to rationalize the wasted effort and ethical breaches? Are they trying to help Hillary through the revolving door to make more millions to salve her wounds? Is it an attempt by the Dem establishment to defend the status quo and prevent any changes that threaten the jobs they don't deserve, or the policies and tactics that led to their failure?

Hillary blew it big time... are they trying to raise money to get her a nice participation trophy?

Can anybody explain this?

A

I agree... If Hillary had chosen Bernie or Warren, she might have won....

But Hillary didn't want to share the spotlight....

If voters didn't vote for Hillary, then that is ALL on Hillary....

Wow... I too agree it's on the candidate and their campaign to convince the voters. It was a turnout election, and the voters did not turn out for Hillary. I was underwhelmed by her VP pick; I understand the locking down Virginia part of the equation, but I think she would have been better served with a VP that united the party. :)

Not hard to do with the facts prove the case so completely.....

EXACTLY...

They are thinking like Democrats and not like Americans....

The mere fact that Trump was supposed to get "slaughtered" PROVES that this election was one to write home about...

Trump did what he had to do to win... Inspire enough voters to vote for him...

Hillary cannot make the same claim...

You are both missing the big picture ... you and most progressives/democrats.

Sorry, B... But I have to go with Liz on this..

It's not the voter's job to vote for candidate A or B..

It's up to the candidate to make the voter WANT to vote for them...

If voters didn't vote for Hillary, then that is ALL on Hillary....

Maybe competence, decency, honesty and intelligence are not required any longer. Trump certainly isn't any of those, and the Republican Party spent two years successfully convincing gullible Americans that Hillary was some sort of criminal.

If it comes down to having the best entertainers, surely the Democrats have a big edge. Most of the entertainment industry leans left.

They might need to up the pay - $400k/year is small potatoes - maybe we should pay $25M/year and get some more people interested.

Unfortunately, neither you nor Clinton took any notice.

I have no time for this right now, but, I'll get back to you - probably with a simple cut and paste...

Unbelievable.