Trump knew ALL about Cruz's speech long before Cruz stepped on stage...

That one fact blows your entire argument out of the water.. :D

Michale

"We can't dismiss the possibility, just because we don't happen to like it."
-Martin Sheen, THE FINAL COUNTDOWN

:D

Trump knew ALL about Cruz's speech long before Cruz stepped on stage...

Trump planned the whole thing.

And it worked perfectly...

The GOP is united....

Michale

"But there ain't no point in talkin'....
if there's nobody listening...
so we just ran away...."
-Rod Stewart, YOUNG TURKS

Michale

My guess is that, after the officer shootings in Dallas and Baton Rouge, (O)BLM is keeping a VERY low profile..

Michale

Also, I believe our bet was about protesters and walkouts on the actual floor of the convention itself, correct? and not about protesters outside on the the public streets....

Yes it was....

Michale

It might help to try and look at it thru the officer's eyes..

He has a call of a Man With A Gun... He has a man with what could be a gun and a civilian in the way..

The man with the "gun" was uncooperative.. The officer might have reasoned that the civilian was in greater danger from the man with the gun and the risk to the civilian of firing at the subject was not as great as the risk the civilian faced by the man with the gun..

The fact that the subject really didn't have a gun is not relevant to the question of whether or not the officer's actions were justified or not..

Michale

Aaaawwwww And we were doing so well. :D

heh

Seriously... I am betting you are going to see the exact same messages coming out of the Dem Convention..

Fear-Mongering...

Hate...

Blame....

It's ALL going to be front and center at the Dem Convention just like it was at the GOP convention..

I just can't see it convincing anyone who wasn't already convinced to vote for him.

As I said, this wasn't a convention for the American people..

This was a convention to unite the GOP..

And THAT mission was accomplished.... In Spades...

Michale

You really can't put too much stock into that..

1. That was the victims statement that the officer said..

2. Even if the officer DID say that, it was in the immediate aftermath of a shooting...

That bears investigating in a spirit "how does something like this happen?

As I have mentioned before, I don't have a problem with investigating how something like this happens..

My only beef is that, more often than not, these "investigations" turn into how we can best execute the officer...

I don't believe he should be treated punitively -- but it seems he probably shouldn't be a cop, or at least, not one in the field who is armed. The victim should be compensated.

Complete, utter, unequivocal without reservation agreement... :D

Michale

Heh

Liz,

I understand that OISs are complicated matters and, too often, many of us draw conclusions based on less than all of the circumstances involved.

At the risk of going RvL, it's painfully obvious that conclusions are drawn based on the ideology...

And THAT is what has got to change...

One issue I continue to have in all of this deals with the question of what, if anything, police can do to de-escalate the situation before making the decision to shoot. I know that that there isn't always time to make that decision and that split-second decisions can mean the difference between the life and death of the officer or officers.

Officers go thru intense training in the academy to do exactly that.. And their training doesn't stop. Many departments have a 5-yr OJT program where officers ride with training officers so their training continues..

That is why one can safely assume that an officer reached the right decision in an OIS, even if it doesn't LOOK like they did... Are mistakes made?? Of course... Are some officers idiots or scumbags?? Of course..

But they are the very VERY small exception and not no where near the norm..

Basically, the rule of thumb *I* follow is to give the officer the benefit of the doubt until/unless incontrovertible facts say otherwise..

Every officer that puts on the badge and the uniform DESERVE that...

Maybe civilians need to be better educated, along with improved training for police, along with better outreach into the communities would go a long way toward a whole other kind of de-escalation.

Of the three things you mention, one of those is already covered...

Better educated civilians???

Better outreach from the communities??

Hmmmm... We haven't tried those yet.. Let's do and see what happens. :D

Michale

Which do you suspect will apply to the Miami shooting?

-CW

As for officers striking someone other than the suspect they were aiming at, the law recognizes that police officers might injure or kill an innocent bystander in the line of duty. If the shooting is deemed justified and the officer's actions are considered reasonable given the circumstances, the officer will not face charges. If their actions are deemed unreasonable or even reckless, they can face discipline and/or possible criminal charges.

And the overriding messages: be afraid. America sucks. I'll fix this, but can't give a single prescription of how. Just more fear! fear! fear! Hate! Blame!

The convention was incompetent. Not well-managed, staged, messaged. I just can't see it convincing anyone who wasn't already convinced to vote for him.

"Good thing ya didn't do the T-SHIRT bet. I would have had a DOOZY for you to wear.. :D"

Well, for one thing, we will see if any protesters actually show up and just how many. Remember, there were supposed to be thousands outside the Republican convention, and that has not happened.

Also, I believe our bet was about protesters and walkouts on the actual floor of the convention itself, correct? and not about protesters outside on the the public streets....

There you go, Michale! :)

That sounds reasonable, Michale.

No, THANK-YOU!! You have no idea how much I appreciate that ...

One issue I continue to have in all of this deals with the question of what, if anything, police can do to de-escalate the situation before making the decision to shoot. I know that that there isn't always time to make that decision and that split-second decisions can mean the difference between the life and death of the officer or officers.

But, many of the cases that seem to be widely reported lead me to believe that there was time to try and de-escalate before having to resort to lethal deadly force.

Maybe civilians need to be better educated, along with improved training for police, along with better outreach into the communities would go a long way toward a whole other kind of de-escalation.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/03/06/article-2288937-024228E9000004B0-268_634x385.jpg

Thank you for staying outside the realm of Left vs Right...

I will endeavor to do the same, but in all fairness, what SHOULD happen and what DOES happen *IS* solely dependent on RvL issues..

But I'll do my best to stay above that carp...

Michale

Absolutely.. In this case it *sounds* like the wound is a superficial one and there will be no lasting issues with the victim...

Compare and contrast that to a victim that loses a leg or an arm or suffers brain damage..

Now, just so we're clear... The degree of injury should only come into play if an officer is grossly negligent or shows great intent/indifference..

If it was a truly honest mistake, then the circumstances are considerably different than gross negligence or intent..

I am sure you would agree with that...

Michale

Oh, yes ... I realize that. Although, I can also see where, depending on the circumstances, it may not matter whether the subject was shot or killed or even if the subject was the right subject!

But, you seem to suggest that the punishment would be the same, regardless?

Shouldn't the circumstances involved in the bad shoot have some impact on what the punishment should be?

Shot and killed are two completely different issues..

And it also depends on if the Hysterical Politically Correct Left Wingery gets their way...

In a normal world where no political considerations come into play, this cop would likely be fired.. If he was a veteran with an impeccable service record, he would likely be allowed to retire..

But, in this hysterical politically correct environment, the Hysterical Left Wingery will probably call for this cop's execution...

Michale

Michale

And ANOTHER TRUMP IS TOAST prediction.. 26th?? 27th?? :D

Ya'all think ya would learn.. :D

Michale

Concludes: "Tonight he will most likely dismember himself, undo the core story he tells everyone endlessly but most especially himself. And all that because at heart he is weak and insecure. Cruz hurt him more than he'll ever be able to admit."

Bernie Sanders may have ended his battle for the White House with his endorsement of presumptive Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton, but that’s not stopping thousands of his backers from planning to flock to Philadelphia next week to protest the Democratic National Convention and send a message to party leaders.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/07/21/bernie-bust-backers-flock-philly-protest/87385076/

Good thing ya didn't do the T-SHIRT bet. I would have had a DOOZY for you to wear.. :D

Michale

This is NOT good. If we lose these swing states, Donald Trump becomes president and Republicans will defund Planned Parenthood, slash Social Security and deport millions of families. We can only win if we know NOW that top Dems like you are committed to fighting.
-Democrat Governors Association Letter

Looks like Dems are in panic mode.. :D

And with good reason.. :D

Lovin' it!! :D

Michale

DON'T VOTE
http://www.globalpost.com/article/6783836/2016/07/20/some-black-lives-matter-activists-plan-not-vote-november

:D

Michale

And the race is TIED!! :D

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/288685-poll-trump-clinton-tied-in-ohio

:D

Michale

That's because Joshua quoted Schwartz ADMITTING he was a liar...

his lying had to be what all he wrote about Trump.

He said he lied... So, he can't be trusted....

Ergo, we don't know whether he wrote the truth about Trump or not..

Because he is a proven liar..

Michale

I can't help it if you are the one making these statements that prove my point for me. YOU are the one calling Schwartz a liar, not me. He was Trump's ghost writer, his job was to make Donald look good. He never thought it might be a catalyst that results in Trump's running for President, which causes him to now regret taking the job in the first place. YOU accuse him of being a PROVEN liar, but for that to be true based on what little details we've discussed, his lying had to be what all he wrote about Trump. You are the one who first claimed it was proof, not me.

Can ya imagine the HYSTERICAL UPROAR if I had said that!?? :D hehehehe

But very well reasoned, Listen..

Michale

Do you EVER get tired of being wrong??

AILES STEPS DOWN FROM FOXNEWS
STAYS ON AS CONSULTANT AT 21ST CENTURY
EXCLUSIVE: LETTER TO RUPERT

:D

You lose. :D

Michale

Trump didn't say "and claims that he intentionally represented Donald as far more competent than he actually is.

Yer star witness fear-mongerer did. :D

Michale

Right?? :D

:D

Michale

So, your star witness is a PROVEN liar as well as a hysterical fear-mongerer...

So you are admitting that Trump is a PROVEN LIAR as well, seeing how he had the final say on the content of the book! If Schwartz is a PROVEN liar, and his lies were all of those positive things said about Trump, then Trump is not as good of a business man as the book claims!

1. Chaos over rules breaks out
2. Melania is a secret Michelle supporter
3. Trump's "organization" messes up the plagarism fall out hilariously badly
4. Nobody talks about what Trump is going to do (except mention the wall once or twice a day), but instead trashes Hillary
5. Prime time TV slots are wasted with weak speakers
6. Potentially strong speakers (e.g. Ernst) speak to an empty hall
7. Cruz disses Trump and we get a fantastic picture of the Trump family sans Melenia standing with looks of "oh shit" all over their faces
8. Astronaut doesn't bother to endorse Trump - which is basically the whole point of a podium slot
9. The icing on the cake:

Ailes is told "You're Fired"

The Democrats typically can't organize a piss up in a brewery, but even they should be able to do better than this.

Bottom line: the officer who fired the shots must articulate what he witnessed that caused him to reasonably believe that the use of deadly force was warranted. If he cannot, then it was definitely a bad shoot!

So, your star witness is a PROVEN liar as well as a hysterical fear-mongerer...

But he says what you want to hear, so....

:D

Like I said.. PIF is fully engaged..

Michale

i would if you did, but you don't, so i can't.

Because ya'all's Partisan Ideological Filters are firmly in control...

"Simple logic"...
one for two there - simple, but not logic. just for kicks, let's employ a little REAL logic:

Propositions:
1. cruz's speech was masterminded by the donald.
2. donald correctly anticipated the speech.
3. donald used the speech to successfully discredit cruz.
4. donald used the speech to unify the republican party.
5. my partisan-ideological filter (TM) has rendered me unable to accept this hypothesis

Facts presented in favor:
1. Donald is credited as a co-author of the book, "Art of the Deal."

Facts presented in opposition:
1. The speech was scheduled an hour before the VP candidate's address.
2. the cruz campaign claimed they demanded the spot in exchange for their concession.
3. 11 of the convention planners reported having a stomach flu the preceding thursday, continuing through the second day of the convention
4. the first two days of the convention were described by both liberal and conservative media as chaotic, poorly run and sparsely attended relative to other recent GOP conventions.

rebuttal of facts in favor:
1. The other author of "Art of the Deal," Tony Schwartz, says he did all (or nearly all) of the writing, and claims that he intentionally represented Donald as far more competent than he actually is.

rebuttal of facts opposed:
1. Donald did not know if Pence would be effective.
2. Cruz is a "rank amateur" and therefore could not have negotiated the spot for himself.
3. Fox News is not a reliable news source
4. My partisan-ideological filter has skewed the selection of some facts and rejection of other facts.

There is only one fact in favor, which is only tangentially related to any of the propositions, even by the kindest standard. Even that fact has been called invalid by the only other person who could know for certain whether or not it's true.

There are four facts opposed, and the arguments used to rebut them are non-factual (1 is speculation, 2 is an ad hominem fallacy, 3 can be discounted based on verification from other sources, 4 is a circular reasoning fallacy).

with inadequate factual evidence in favor and extensive factual evidence opposed, logic dictates that the propositions must therefore be rejected.

thanks for playing! parting contestants will receive complimentary copies of the Chrisweigant dot com home game.

;)
JL

Definitely NOT a good shoot...

Do you think he should be charged with attempted murder??

Michale

I am sure you can find plenty of others too.

OK, but do we REALLY want to go there???

Michale

wsvn.com/news/local/video-shows-moments-before-north-miami-police-shot-unarmed-man/

I am sure you can find plenty of others too.

Michale

Michale

For a brief recap, a counselor, who happens to be a black man, was in the street trying to talk a patient into going back into a nearby facility. The police were called. Neither man had any kind of weapon whatsoever. The black man was in fact, laying down on the road with both his hands raised in the air the entire time. And the police still shot the black man. When the black man asked the police why the officer shot him, the officer who did the shootings response was, and I quote: "I don't know why I shot you."

Would you still call this a "good" shoot???

Sorry.. Forget myself amid all the Trump bashing..

Barack Obama can't go with a 2min speech without mentioning himself DOZENS of times...

My bust.. Won't happen again...

Michale

"Can I talk to you about something that is not work related!?"
"You NEVER want to talk about work!!"
-GROUNDHOG DAY

:D

Where I do IT work, one of the secretaries needed our NET IP address.. I, of course, told her to quit bothering me because I am BUSY on chrisweigant.com and told her to hit one of the WHATISMYIPADDRESS websites.. :D

Turns out that those websites are now displaying IPv6 IP addresses...

Have we switched over to the IPv6 standard and I just missed the memo???

Or do I have something misconfigured on my subnets???

Michale

And, just like with Cruz being the most "calculating" politician ever, we see the PIFs firmly in control..

Hussein Odumbo can't go with a 2min speech without mentioning himself DOZENS of times...

Michale

Yea.. He says that Donald Trump is going to "end civilization"...

And, OF COURSE, ya'all would find that interesting.

And WHY would ya'all find such ignorant hyperbolic fear-mongering "interesting"???

Because ya'all's Partisan Ideological Filters are firmly in control...

"Simple logic"...
-Admiral James T Kirk

Michale

The level of narcissism that this man demonstrates is mind-boggling! It's not that he wants people to believe that he can lead the country, nor does it have anything to do with the rest of the Republican Party. Trump just wants to win the popularity contest that the rest of us call "the Presidency"! If Trump were to ever get dementia, we'd never be able to recognize it!

OK, now YOU've been hanging around JFC too long.. :D

Michale

Too funny!!!!

"It's funny cuz it's true!!"
-Homer Simpson

Michale

Once again, the PIFs show that they are firmly in control.. :D

Says the man whose face must look like a giant Dorito by now!

“You’re on fire! You’re on fire, stupid!”

That just cracks me up! :D

Michale

Yet her name is still on the cover..

Once again, the PIFs show that they are firmly in control.. :D

Michale

Michale

THAT is your evidence???

Please take a step back and see how far off the reservation you have gone.... :^/

Michale

You know it.. I know it. Everyone here knows it..

Michale

Bullshit.... :D

No one would take that hypothesis more seriously, even if I had all the facts in the world to back it up..

Ya'all simply are INCAPABLE of allowing that yer wrong on Trump...

Your Partisan Ideological Filters simply won't permit it...

Michale

Michale

What's more logical??

That Trump got suckered by a rank amateur such as Cruz???

or

That Trump played Cruz like an outta tune bass...??

Turn off your PIF.... :D

Michale

folks might take your hypothesis more seriously if you provided factual evidence to back it up. so far all you have provided factually is that donald co-wrote a book. incidentally, here is some commentary from the other co-author:

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/jul/19/trump-co-writer-says-candidate-could-end-civilisation-the-art-of-the-deal-tony-schwartz

:D

as to fox news being factually supported, there are plenty of legitimate news organizations that ran with the same story,

And yet, it's foxnews that you quote... :D

"fascinating"
-Spock

:D

Michale

Michale

as to the cruz speech being orchestrated on purpose, i heard it was negotiated as part of cruz's concession, so that's another strike against the "mastermind" hypothesis.

JL

:D

Michale

What's more logical??

That Trump got suckered by a rank amateur such as Cruz???

or

That Trump played Cruz like an outta tune bass...??

Turn off your PIF....

Michale

and

http://www.foxnews.com

Shurley you jest?? :D

I'll remind you of this sometime in the (likely) near future.. :D

Michale

here's a different (and more factually supported) alternative explanation:

July 19 - GOP convention planners get stomach flu

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/07/19/gop-convention-planners-get-stomach-flu.html

Trump had no way of knowing that Pence would be so effective.. Maybe Donald scheduled the Cruz gambit precisely to make up for anything lacking from Pence...

i think cruz was poorly managed

I know ya'all do..

I am simply giving you a possible alternative that I knew ya'all would be unable to acknowledge.. :D

Michale

if it was donald's intention all along to have a cruz speech turn the convention hall angry and derisive, wouldn't it have been scheduled early on monday to get all the "vote your conscience" folks out of the way early, and also not to upstage pence on his day?

i'm with CW on this - i think cruz was poorly managed, and it takes no small amount of mental gymnastics to frame it any other way. i'm open to the possibility that the result will be favorable for donald in spite of this, but to say he'd planned it all along? that assertion strains credulity.

JL

Trump used Cruz's greed and selfish-ness against him... :D

Trump is the true 12-dimensional chess master.. :D

Michale

All awash with Republicans uniting behind Trump and against Cruz...

That joke of a plagiarism "scandal" forgotten..

Yep.... It was a masterful stroke by Team Trump...

Trump is da man!!! :D

Michale

Oh great.. Now that song is going to be stuck in my head all day.. :D

"Skidda Ma Rink A Rink Dink Skidda Ma Rink A Do"

:D heh

Michale

I simply don't know how you can do it...and take notes while you are doing it....and I guess you'll have to do it again for the Democrats.

Of course, that photo was taken while the mother of the American that Crooked Bimbo Hillary killed was talking.. Or it might have been when the parent of an American killed by Odumbo's open border policies was speaking..

I know, I know.. Democrats would have been laughing and cheering at those times...

:^/

Clinton has been handed a pretty sweet opportunity. Let's see what she makes of it.

Clinton has been handed a pretty sweet opportunity to kill even MORE Americans.. Let's see what she makes of it.

There.. Fixed it for you...

Michale

In the end, modern conventions are mostly about polling bounces, and which bounce is bigger, and in the right direction. Team Trump cannot be happy with their convention. One photo shows it all.

http://static5.businessinsider.com/image/5790390f88e4a778008b994a-1024/gettyimages-578133654.jpg

Oooh Fuuuc.....!!!!

Clinton has been handed a pretty sweet opportunity. Let's see what she makes of it.

:D

Michale

Yep, it actually was... It was a masterful stroke. And those who don't have Partisan Ideological Filters in control can easily see that...

Not that I expect such intelligence be indicated in your incoherent rants... :D

Michale

Yeah, scheduling Cruz to speak was a great idea.

Cleveland Police: Protester Lights Himself On Fire While Trying To Burn American Flag
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2016/07/20/cleveland-police-protests-flag/

The best line of the entire convention, the one line that epitomizes the issues and what's what was not done inside the convention.. It was said at one of the protests..

“You’re on fire! You’re on fire, stupid!”
-Cleveland Police Officer

THAT says it all..

hehehehehehehehehehe

Michale

Trump doesn't have to sell himself to the American people... Joe and Jane Sixpack LOVE Trump...

This convention was about one thing and one thing only..

Uniting the Party...

And Trump has done that... In spades... :D

Michale

Michale