And yet, Obama is continuing *AND* expanding many Bush's CT and Domestic Surveillance programs..

:D

Michale

Yes, it is... But it's the only way I can manage the deep depression that is brought on.. :^/

Ya'all know the feeling. It's the same depression that ya'all feel when the GOP does something good for the country... :D

Michale

I'm going to deliberately misinterpret that. You're right:

"He is no W."

George W. Bush's numbers for July of his final year:

27.8 approval, 67.4 disapproval.

Spread: MINUS 39.6 points.

Yep, you are entirely correct. Obama is "no W" -- he's miles and miles and miles better!

:-)

OK, gotta run, GOPfest is starting up again...

-CW

Oh, foof. Watching "the spread" is cheating, because it doubles the actual movement. If one percent of the public changes their minds, the spread moves two points.

Also, your numbers are wrong. Obama started the month at +4.2, then the next two days were +3.6, +3.1.

Thhhppppbbbbbt (sound of Bronx cheer).

:-)

-CW

Refresh my memory please. What exactly is a T-shirt bet?

it's when the loser wears a predetermined t-shirt of the winner's choice for a day. see comment #32 on the GOP convention day 2 column for the link:

http://www.chrisweigant.com/2016/07/19/cleveland-day-two/#comment-80031

And if they knew more than the FBI who are investigating the case, then you would have a point..

You know the rest..

All of the people you cite are POLITICIANS...

Of COURSE they are going to go with the politically correct bullshit...

And the ONLY reason you cite them is because they are saying EXACTLY what you want to hear...

But, as I said before..

It's pointless to debate this issue (or ANY issue) with a person (or people) whose partisan ideological filter is in complete control...

So, whatever..

Michale

"Which doesn't change the *FACT* that there is NO FACTUAL evidence to show that the club was targeted because it was ga.y...

Yea, it COULD have been a Cardassian attack, but there are NO FACTS to support that either..."

Which also still doesn't change the FACT that all the politicians in the loop, both LEFT and RIGHT, both Republican and Democrat, from Obama, to Rubio, to Ryan, to even Florida's own Pam Bondi, ALL agree and say that it WAS an anti-gay attack.

"OK T-Shirt bet???"

Refresh my memory please. What exactly is a T-shirt bet?

I didn't think ya would go THIS soon, Bashi.. :D

Michale

So I am more than willing to admit I am wrong with regards to you and add you to the People Who Can Admit They're Wrong group...

Michale

Fair warning.. Any concession you have made that has a BUT in it is disqualified...

Not butts... :D

Michale

Could you refresh my memory??

where is this alleged filter located?

Ya know that little punching bag thingy that hangs down from the roof of your mouth in the back of your throat?? :D

https://youtu.be/9z-uYMrWTCc

heh :D

Michale

how about last week and bush lying about iraq? just for starters...

And WHY is it important??

Because your partisan ideological filter demands it..

Michale

https://youtu.be/9z-uYMrWTCc

And here we are... :D

For example, in the 10 years that I have been here, no one (except Stig in 2014) had EVER conceded that they were wrong and I was right..

NOT.... ONE.... SINGLE..... TIME.....

So, either that never happens, which you HAVE to know is total BS..

Or.....

Ya'all CAN'T admit when you are wrong and I am right...

Employing Occam's Razor, which is the likely answer?? :D

Michale

But you can't recognize that due to your partisan ideological filter...

EVERYTHING you read from me goes thru that filter...

being non-partisan doesn't make one correct

I never claimed that it did..

But being STRICTLY partisan almost always makes one INCORRECT...

And here we are... :D

Michale

OK T-Shirt bet???

:D

Also, that FBI article you cited about the Pulse nightclub not being an anti-gay attack... if you read the whole article like I did do, you would have noticed that at the very end, it said AT BEST the whole reason behind the attack was inconclusive and might never actually be known. That while there was not enough evidence to support that it was ant-gay, there was also not enough evidence to say that it was NOT anti-gay EITHER. It was ALL circumstantial.

Which doesn't change the *FACT* that there is NO FACTUAL evidence to show that the club was targeted because it was ga.y...

Yea, it COULD have been a Cardassian attack, but there are NO FACTS to support that either...

Michale

Too many to name...

I would point them out to you, but your record proves you just ignore facts...

Michale

left, right, center or none of the above, bad logic is still bad logic. at times i've encountered arguments that i strongly disagree with, but which are logically consistent. your appeals to hypocrisy and partisanship are not. they're generally based on false premises, and fail to cohere logically. being non-partisan doesn't make one correct, any more than being popular makes one correct.

JL

"You were saying, JM?? :D

Wanna make that bet??? :D"

SURE! I will make that bet!

By the way, the Senators in the article you cited are skipping the Democratic convention not because they are disgusted with the choice of Hillary (Unlike the Bushes and Romney are with Trump.) but because they thought it more important to campaign in their home states where they have a real chance of winning in tight contests that would flip the Senate back to Democratic control.

Also, that FBI article you cited about the Pulse nightclub not being an anti-gay attack... if you read the whole article like I did do, you would have noticed that at the very end, it said AT BEST the whole reason behind the attack was inconclusive and might never actually be known. That while there was not enough evidence to support that it was ant-gay, there was also not enough evidence to say that it was NOT anti-gay EITHER. It was ALL circumstantial.

"A difference which makes no difference IS no difference."

That would be the mirror you refuse to look in to...

It's well established that I have no political ideology by the Grand Poobah hisself..

No political ideology, no political ideological filters...

You are wrong again.. Just like you were wrong when you claimed I never apologize for my mistakes..

You were wrong about that, you are wrong about this...

"And so it goes and so it goes... And so will you soon I suppose.."
-Billy Joel

:D

Michale

Yea, that's what you keep saying...

With absolutely ZERO facts to back it up.. :D

Michale

Like I said.. I completely understand why you would say that..

But a completely non-partisan Party agnostic would see the logic of my argument...

But, unfortunately, outside of me, there are none to be found around here...

So, we'll just have to agree to disagree.... :D

Michale

no, your failure to make a coherent argument won't allow me to concede that.

JL

Except you forget to mention your own, which is usually greater than those you accuse.

But the ideological filters at work within ya'all won't allow you to concede that..

That would be the mirror you refuse to look in to...

"A difference which makes no difference IS no difference."

Yes.. My point is nearly ALWAYS the hypocrisy and I am ALWAYS accurate on that..

But the ideological filters at work within ya'all won't allow you to concede that..

Michale

But you never answered my question..

Are you seriously trying to tell me that there is NO Partisan Ideology or hypocrisy at play here??

Yer not claiming that, are you?? :D

Michale

incorrect.

your point is ALWAYS the hypocrisy, and very rarely accurate on that count.

And Trump has given an "executive summary" of what he promises to do..

your argument that a legislator failing to explain a law is "IDENTICAL" to a candidate failing to explain himself, simply doesn't hold water.

That's your opinion.. But it's an opinion unsupported by any facts at all...

no, you haven't, you just think you have.

No, I have proven it. But, because it's run thru your partisan ideological filter, it comes out that I haven't...

But, objectively speaking, the point has been proven...

Michale

As I have proven beyond any doubt, the schtick is not exclusively Trump...

. If you don't want Trump name calling, start with him. Your hypocrisy crusade has run smack in to the wall of false equivalency. Again...

My point is not the name-calling...

MY point is the hypocrisy...

Michale

Are you really this dense? Name calling is Trump's shtick. It's what he does. Half your insults came directly from him. If you don't want Trump name calling, start with him. Your hypocrisy crusade has run smack in to the wall of false equivalency. Again...

every law written has an executive summary that tells what it promises to do. every law also has endless legal gobbledygook in the text - that's about as intentional as a zebra having stripes. your argument that a legislator failing to explain a law is "IDENTICAL" to a candidate failing to explain himself, simply doesn't hold water.

Does the defence's case hoId water?
No.
~my cousin vinny

Yet, I prove time and time again that it IS present..

no, you haven't, you just think you have. feel free to go on thinking that. however, you're not going to convince anyone but yourself.

JL

Ya'all don't agree...

And so it goes and so it goes...

Michale

And I agree as well...

The problem lies in the fact of we can't agree what is nonsense and what isn't...

Michale

But the CONCEPT of the two quotes is the same..

unlike a law, a person can make promises and be held accountable for keeping them. that's what a campaign IS.

And a politician can SAY what a law will or will not do (make promises) and be found out to be a liar...

No difference...

but if you want to know what a law promises to do, READ the law.

And if the law is INTENTIONALLY obfuscated and full of gobbldygook so that people CAN'T read them, then it's "perfectly legitimate" to ask the person PUSHING the law, the person who ostensibly wrote the law to explain it. And if they refuse to, it's "perfectly legitimate" to ridicule them that they won't at least try...

Once again, the two issues are IDENTICAL....

But, you prove my overall point about ya'all's ideological filters and me not having any...

I think BOTH are ridiculous.. Ya'all run them both thru your ideological partisan filters and DING... One pops out as ridiculous, the other pops out as perfectly acceptable..

Even though I have shown that they both are identical..

like a hammer that sees everything as a nail, you're looking for partisan ideology everywhere and hypocrisy where it isn't.

Yet, I prove time and time again that it IS present..

Are you seriously trying to tell me that there is NO Partisan Ideology or hypocrisy at play here??

Yer not claiming that, are you?? :D

Michale

i would love it if we ALL could cut down on the nonsense. agree completely.

@michale,

like a hammer that sees everything as a nail, you're looking for partisan ideology everywhere and hypocrisy where it isn't. i'm not a huge fan of nancy pelosi, who blocks traffic to go shoe shopping, but passing a law and electing a person to office are two different procedures. unlike a law, a person can make promises and be held accountable for keeping them. that's what a campaign IS.

in some sense, both statements are accurate - nobody really knows what a law OR a candidate will do until they're put to the test. but if you want to know what a law promises to do, READ the law. if you want to know what a candidate will do, it's perfectly legitimate to ask the candidate to tell you, and to ridicule them if they won't at least try.

JL

The problem is your assessment is run thru an ideological filter and what you term "nonsense" really isn't..

Not to pick just on you in that regard.. Everyone here (sans yours truly) has a partisan ideological filter that colors everything.......

Like when Listen pointed out how ridiculous it was for Trump to say "You have to elect me to find out what I am going to do.." But Listen said it was COMPLETELY different when Pelosi said basically the exact same thing..

That's what I mean by ya'all's ideological filter and me not having any..

I see BOTH statements as ridiculous..

Ya'all only see TRUMP's statement as ridiculous and Pelosi's statement, which is virtually identical, is perfectly acceptable...

Michale

In a nutshell ... 90% nonsense, 10% common sense ... how's that generous assessment, for starters?

what do you see as the biggest problem? and what steps might fix it?

JL

Even though it's as appropriate as calling Trump 'Hitler', the rules have been laid down and I will abide by the rules...

No more calling Crooked Hillary the B-word..

"Ah Ah Ah Ahhhhh No one says the B-word.."
-Michael Keaton, BEETLEJUICE

:D

Michale

Maybe if JFC was admonished as much as I have been, he would stop it as well.

Hmmmmmmmm???

Michale

That should read: And THAT is just SINCE the PENCE, KAINE, REALLY commentary....

My bust...

hehehehehehe

Yea, after I saw that I realized I should have put the whole word 'now' in bold. hehehehe

Michale

The name-calling continues to this day...

we did the name-calling thing, so now let's end it - JFC's incoherent rants notwithstanding.

Well, at least we agree that JFCs rants ARE incoherent.. :D

If it was JUST JFC, you might have a point.. But I would too...

But it's not...

Paula, Listen, TS, GT, Bashi, Neal, Balthasar..

And THAT is just within the PENCE, KAINE, REALLY commentary....

Please, don't bother with the Sir Robin-esque "I NEVER DID!!!" denials...

Even if it were JUST JFC, it would be sufficient to make my point...

Ya'all want me to respect Democrat leadership, then ya'all need to respect GOP leadership...

If ya'all want to just laugh and ridicule and denigrate and attack GOP leadership???

Well, I wanna play that game too....

Michale

yeah that was a funny gaffe with the bold capital W. i read "He is noW at a +2.6" as "He is no dubya at a +2.6%," which i didn't quite get, since dubya was at a -30% in july of his final year in office.

JL

JL

Sorry you feel that way... I certainly don't..

But I am constrained to point out that it's ya'all who have set the tone around here, not I... If people go around calling people they don't agree with every vile name in the book, is it so shocking that I would respond in kind??

If you want tolerance, then it behooves ya'all to BE tolerant???

Everyone here either calls people they don't agree with vile and disgusting names or they give assent to those vile and disgusting names...

But let someone follow the same rules on people that the rank and file LIKE and AGREE WITH??

Oh, well.. THAT's different... We can't have THAT happening, now can we???

Like I said, 's OK... I understand why that rule has to be in place... It doesn't bother me much whatsoever.. Standards must be maintained, even if they are double standards.. :D

But don't try to pin this on me when it's clear to anyone with more than 2 brain cells to rub together that I was simply following ya'all's (no exceptions to note) example...

:D

Michale

I just don't need that ... especially not now, but, really, not ever.

This place isn't even a much needed distraction, anymore. :(

's OK.. Ya'all are free to call Republicans every vile, disgusting and perverse name ya'all can think of...

At least this way, I will always have the moral, ethical and mature high ground... :D

No harm, no foul... :D

Michale

Seriously?

Two names emerge from Clinton’s VP deliberations: Kaine and Vilsack
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/two-names-emerge-from-clintons-vp-deliberations-kaine-and-vilsack/2016/07/19/62189146-4d2d-11e6-aa14-e0c1087f7583_story.html

What I tell ya???

Faux-chohantas will not be considered for VP... For very good reasons...

So much for the hope that egos will heal at the Demcorat Convention, eh?? :D

Michale

Hay!! Who put my 'T' key where the 'W' goes!!!

"HAY!!!! YOU MOVED MY STUMP!!!"
-Wreck It Ralph

:D

He is noW at a +2.6 and it's still going down..

My bust...

Michale

But, yer da boss.. :D I'll bow to your wishes.. :D

Can I assume that Rhymes-With-Witch is acceptable?? :D Or maybe b*tch?? :D

Michale

Hay, you know me. I call 'em as I see 'em...

And since playground name-calling is the rule around here I am just playing by the rules..

Calling Hillary a bitch is no more offensive than calling Trump Hitler...

But, yer da boss.. :D I'll bow to your wishes.. :D

Obama's numbers haven't "dropped like a stone" they went down like a point or less, and have since started recovering.

I disagree... As I mentioned before when Obama is in positive territory, I look at the spread... Obama started the month (more or less) with a +6.1 spread... He is not at a +2.6 and it's still going down..

That's a huge drop and the 'dropping like a stone' metaphor is wholly accurate...

Michale

Michale (81)-
Please apologize to rats.

You are right.. That was unnecessarily offensive to rats...

My apologies (BLUE MOON!!) to the rat population..

Michale

Obama's numbers haven't "dropped like a stone" they went down like a point or less, and have since started recovering.

Presidential job approval in an election year is one of the best predictors for the outcome of the election, I should add. That article you cite is mostly wishful thinking by a righty.

-CW

I actually agree with Paula. That comment was a bit over the top, dude. Let's keep things a little more polite. Fair warning.

-CW

Oh, and new column is now up for Day Two, check it out...

-CW

That's it, people..

Ya'all lost... get over it... :D

Michale

hehehehehehehehe That about sums it up...

The majority of Americans are with Trump....

Michale....

Ya'all want to call people names...

But ya'all don't like it when yer people are called names..

Hypocrisy much??

Michale

TRANSLATION: Don't listen to ANY opposing opinions.. Just listen to the echo chamber.. You'll be fine... We are at war with East Asia.. We have always been at war with East Asia...

Yer so pathetically enslaved by ideology... :D

Michale

Neil, you really need to work on IGNORING me..

To paraphrase Morpheus...

"Quit trying to ignore me and ignore me!!"

Talking ABOUT me is not ignoring me..

Like everyone who tried before you, you simply can't do it...

I am under your skin... :D

Michale

You had better apologize immediately for that language. There's a lot I'll tolerate from you but I will not tolerate that level of abusive language about any woman.

Just ignore every post. Trust me, it makes this community far better. It isn't like you will be missing any insights or valid viewpoints.

Michale....

Fine..

As soon as everyone apologizes for the names that they have called Trump, I will be HAPPY to reciprocate..

But not a nano-second before...

Michale

Have a ball people.. I'll be laughing my ass off.. :D

Michale

You had better apologize immediately for that language. There's a lot I'll tolerate from you but I will not tolerate that level of abusive language about any woman.

Ya'all made the bed.. Don't be pissed at me because I am going to make sure ya'all lie in it...

LIE being the operative word there.. :D

Michale

Ya'all can't say DICK about Trump because ya'all refuse to concede that Hillary is, in most cases, worse... :D

Michale

And Hillary IF THIS IS ARKANSAS THEN IT MUST BE HICK ACCENT Clinton does not??

that pretty much takes "alleged" out of the equation!

Fine.. Ya'all admit that Crooked Hillary is dishonest and I'll be happy to concede the same for Trump...

See how easy that is???

1000 Quatloos says ya'all won't... :D

Michale

Waaaaa waaaaaaaa waaaaaaaaaa

Somebody call the WAAAAAAAAA-mbulance.... :^D

Michale

Yep... Yep.... Yep.....

(O)BLM is nothing but a racist hate group... No different than the KKK...

Michale

Yep...

Already, Odumbo has seen his poll numbers drop like a stone.....

Michale

Yep...

Already, Odumbo has seen his poll numbers drop like a stone.....

Michale

Michale

Top Dem Senate hopefuls to skip convention
http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/senate-races/288365-senate-challengers-to-skip-dem-convention

You were saying, JM?? :D

Wanna make that bet??? :D

Michale

Considering that over 70% of Americans think that the BEST word to describe Hillary Clinton is "LIAR".....

Do you REALLY want to have a debate about the alleged dishonesty of Trump???

Michale

Why are the polls so close if Trump is so bad and Hillary is so good???

Michale

http://wonkette.com/604267/republican-platform-knows-mitt-romney-and-paul-ryan-will-save-america-yes-in-2016

that fallacy is called argumentum ad populum, i.e. concluding that a proposition is true because many or most people believe it.

the normal curve being what it is, 83.3% of the human population are just not all that bright. that doesn't mean there's anything wrong with most people, nor that being a mensa member necessarily makes one right. however, donald's rhetoric has been pretty horrific both in its gross factual inaccuracy and in its disregard for human decency - issues which (based on the demographics of donald's supporters) educated people tend to notice and uneducated people tend not to.

JL

Now I understand everyone's shit's emotional right now. But I've got a 3 point plan that's going to fix EVERYTHING. Number 1: We've got this guy Not Sure. Number 2: He's got a higher IQ than ANY MAN ALIVE. and Number 3: He's going to fix EVERYTHING.
~president camacho, idiocracy

I'll ask again...

If Trump is so bad and Crooked Hillary is so good, why are the polls so close???

Michale

Crooked Hillary won't pick Faux-chohantas...

It's that simple....

Michale

So, yer safe in making the bet, right?? :D

Michale

"And when there is shouting back and forth at the Dem Convention and delegates walk out because of how Bernie was treated, I bet a thousand quatloos that none of the rank and file Weigantians will say BOO about it..."

You won't have to bet, because it isn't going to happen, AT ALL. Why would it, when Bernie has endorsed Hillary, and has gotten most of what he wanted inserted into the official Democratic Party Platform? And if Hillary were to pick Warren, say, as her VP, it will be a love fest, and any slights to Bernie will be all but forgotten.

No one of any importance is blaming Crooked Hillary...

Better??

Michale

And the Right Wingery will say the exact same things about the opening of the Demcorat Convention and be just as accurate....

What makes them wrong and you right???

Michale

"When we landed in Bosnia, we had to dodge sniper fire..."
-Hillary Clinton

Are you SURE you want to talk about TRUMP dishonesty???

Michale

The only positive note: so far the counter-protesters have been completely peaceful, offering Trump no opportunities to exploit. He'll probably pay some people to go out and start a rumble. There's always people who will take money to do anything, no matter how contemptible.

Here's just one of the many reports about this today: http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2016/07/19/paul-manafort-blames-hillary-clinton-for-melania-trump-speech-plagiarism-allegation/