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Michale

It was in her PRIVATE aircraft...

PRIVATE meeting..

While I agree it LOOKS inappropriate

Hell ya, it's inappropriate...

at LEAST get your FACTS correct.

They always are... :D

EXCEPT, AGAIN, it has done no such thing! Health care cost increases have actually slowed dramatically due to the ACA's impact, compared to what they were, and that is a PROVEN FACT. Also, the number of Americans who had to switch plans, BECAUSE those plans did not meet the new standards, has been grossly exaggerated. I have also seen interviews and stories where they went back and interviewed again those people who had initially complained. Many of them now say they in fact like their new plans better, once they found out that they actually got MORE coverage at CHEAPER cost.

Yes.. That's the spin... And it's as accurate as If you like your healthcare plan, you can KEEP your healthcare plan....

Obama admin: Dropoff in Obamacare enrollment since January
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/national-politics/article87002882.html

The majority of Americans don't like TrainWreckCare...

The majority of Americans NEVER liked TrainWreckCare...

These are the facts. And they are indisputable...

Michale

"Bill Clinton meets privately with AG Lynch **WHILE HE IS UNDER INVESTIGATION BY THE FBI"

EXCEPT, IT WAS NOT in private, it was on a PUBLIC airport tarmac. Also, it was initiated by Bill Clinton, and NOT by Lynch. While I agree it LOOKS inappropriate, at LEAST get your FACTS correct.

"A plan that kicked MILLIONS of Americans out of the healthcare plans that they LIKED and caused health care costs to SKY ROCKET"

EXCEPT, AGAIN, it has done no such thing! Health care cost increases have actually slowed dramatically due to the ACA's impact, compared to what they were, and that is a PROVEN FACT. Also, the number of Americans who had to switch plans, BECAUSE those plans did not meet the new standards, has been grossly exaggerated. I have also seen interviews and stories where they went back and interviewed again those people who had initially complained. Many of them now say they in fact like their new plans better, once they found out that they actually got MORE coverage at CHEAPER cost.

Yea... NOTHING inappropriate there.. :^/

You can bet if the parties involved had '-R's after their names, the entirety of the Left Wingery would be apoplectic...

Michale

Stand tall for the beast of America...
Lay down like a naked dead body,
keep it real for the people workin' overtime,
they can't stay living off the governments dime.

Stand tall for the people of America.
Stand tall for the man next door,
we are free in the land of America,
we ain't goin' down like this.
-BEAST, Nico Vega

Michale

CLINTON IS TOAST...

Better get yer T-SHIRT ready, Joshua.. :D

Michale

Sound familiar to ya'all???

It should...

Michale

Puts everything in perspective.. As Ms Noonan is wont to do...

Michale

Well said, Madam Secretary...

In short??

Losers!? Quit whining.. Quit fear mongering.. You lost.
DEAL WITH IT...

Michale

The presumptive Republican nominee explained, “I want to introduce though a man that’s worked here for many years, Mike. And Mike actually had the distinct lack of honor of training people from Mexico to take his job.”
http://dailycaller.com/2016/06/30/watch-trump-brings-man-up-on-stage-who-was-forced-to-train-his-foreign-replacement/

The Democrat Part *USED* to care about middle class workers like Mike...

That was before they sold their souls and the soul of their Party to the globalists, elitists and corporatists...

Seriously... How can ya'all reconcile this with ya'all's claims that you support the middle class??

Fact is, ya'all can't..

It's ALL about Party Loyalty... Nothing else matters..

Michale

The presumptive Republican nominee explained, “I want to introduce though a man that’s worked here for many years, Mike. And Mike actually had the distinct lack of honor of training people from Mexico to take his job.”
http://dailycaller.com/2016/06/30/watch-trump-brings-man-up-on-stage-who-was-forced-to-train-his-foreign-replacement/

The Democrat Part *USED* to care about middle class workers like Mike...

That was before they sold their souls and the soul of their Party to the globalists, elitists and corporatists...

Seriously... How can ya'all reconcile this with ya'all's claims that you support the middle class??

Fact is, ya'all can't..

It's ALL about Party Loyalty... Nothing else matters..

Michale

Yea... Gods forbid that Hillary should actually take a stand on PRINCIPLE....

Ach, what am I saying....

Hillary HAS no principles...

Michale

The problem with Hillary is that she exists for Hillary and Hillary only..

Her power and her money is all she cares about...

EVERYTHING else is a non issue...

Michale

OK, I am gonna have to ask that you show that you have even a slither of respect for this country and it's leader by referring to our President by his name and not as "Hussein Odumbo".

First off, Hussein IS his name..

Secondly...

Friday Talking Points [391] -- Our "Dopey Donald" Contest
http://www.chrisweigant.com/2016/05/13/ftp391/

I am showing the exact same respect to President Obama that ya'all are showing to Trump...

Cheney might be a war criminal-in-waiting, but he was still our country's VP.

And what does that make our current POUTUS, who has continued and EXPANDED many of the programs that Cheney started??

I never would disrespect the office that they held by resorting to play ground mentality name calling! That, to me, is unacceptable. I cannot force you to do this, nor would I wish to, but I do hope that you can understand my position on this.

I DO understand your position on this because it's a position that I have always followed..

And don't think it doesn't bother me that I have sunk to the level of playground name-calling..

However... When in Rome.....

I have no issue with you calling the candidates whatever you want -- call Hillary "Crooked Hillary" or Trump "a dilated cow anus" all day long.

On this, I disagree.. Those who are running for the office that demands respect from Americans, they should ALSO be shown respect...

If we demand the respect of others, it would be great if we at least demonstrated the same level of respect for our country that we are demanding of others!

I completely agree...

And I am willing to show that level of respect for our POUTUS if everyone else is will to show that level of respect for the GOP candidate...

As I am fond of saying.. If one wants respect, one must be respectful..

Michale

There you go ... reminding me why it is that I'm not a big Clinton fan, to put it mildly. :)

Kudos to Toffler for being right. Sad to hear about his passing.

Toffler, who first conceived of the idea that we were moving from an industrial to a post-industrial society in 1965, and wrote about the economic and social dislocations and pathologies that accompany such a change in his books, has benefited as few prognosticators have by the passage of time: we know from our vantage point fifty years later that he was spot-on, and that his predictions have continued to come true as the scenario he describes unfolds. No science future author of that time was ever as accurate in his description of the future, nor was any prognosticator more correct in the specific details of the future to such a degree. For the world, losing Toffler is on the order of losing both Nostradamus and Robert Heinlein on the same day.

So Huzzah! for Alvin. May memory of him never fade.

Heh, okay. I did want to discuss this some more:

Once a big trade deal like this has been negotiated and signed off on - though not yet ratified - it is difficult to engage in the tweaking process. And, that is especially true when you consider that the US is currently negotiating a trade arrangement with Europe.

And can you imagine the state of that negotiation in the wake of Brexit? What a nightmare.

I honestly think that Hillary would sign it as-is if it came to her desk, and say that, despite her reservations (which she would describe as 'very real'), it is, taken as a whole, a good deal. Bernie has made it such a hot potato for her, however, that she would rather discuss Monica than the TPP right now, so don't expect anything on this from Hillary that isn't nuanced to the point of disappearing altogether until after November. That's what I would advise her to do.

I actually think that the Senate will take up the TPP during the lame duck session, with the excuse that either Hillary might veto it, or Trump might re-write it(the establishment GOP will feel free, after the election, to oppose Trump on this even if he wins). Either way, Obama would sign it, and everyone would forget Hillary's campaign position.

OK, I am gonna have to ask that you show that you have even a slither of respect for this country and it's leader by referring to our President by his name and not as "Hussein Odumbo". I voted for Bush, but by his second term I thought he and his administration were horrible. Cheney might be a war criminal-in-waiting, but he was still our country's VP. No matter how little I might have thought of them, I never would disrespect the office that they held by resorting to play ground mentality name calling! That, to me, is unacceptable. I cannot force you to do this, nor would I wish to, but I do hope that you can understand my position on this.

I have no issue with you calling the candidates whatever you want -- call Hillary "Crooked Hillary" or Trump "a dilated cow anus" all day long. I have read your comments quoting Trump's claims how of Islamic extremists don't respect our country. If we demand the respect of others, it would be great if we at least demonstrated the same level of respect for our country that we are demanding of others!

Michale

So, when the GOP is in charge, everything is the GOP's fault..

And when the Democrats are in charge, when the Democrats have a virtual lock on government, everything is STILL the GOP's fault..

In short, the GOP is as evil incarnate and the Democrat Party is as pure as the driven snow...

And you don't see ANY bias in that attitude??? :D

Michale

And Democrats decided that TrainWreckCare was the cure..

A plan that kicked MILLIONS of Americans out of the healthcare plans that they LIKED and caused health care costs to SKY ROCKET..

And Americans are STILL clamoring for jobs, 7 years later..

Good plan.. :^/

Michale

Let's not and say we did.

'Virtual' in this case meaning, 'imaginary', as it wasn't filibuster-proof.

Americans were SCREAMING for jobs.

Yes, they were, in the wake of George II's Great Recession (now THAT . We were trying to come out of it, and the GOP had decided that 'austerity' was the cure for 'lack of money'.

That's when democrats realized that Health care costs had continued to rise even during the recession, because the HC industry was immune from market forces. The solution was to either a) scrap the system and pay health costs directly; or b) to introduce market forces back into the healthcare system. In order to get enough votes to avoid a filibuster, it had to be the latter.

And of course, since the public would actually prefer a single payer system, and the GOP wanted no change at all, and continue to block full implementation, a full and impartial assessment is difficult, save that millions and millions of people now have health insurance who wouldn't have had it otherwise.

But I agree, back to Brexit...

Michale

I am not talking about a filibuster proof.. I am talking about a virtual lock..

Americans were SCREAMING for jobs...

And yer Democrats gave them TrainWreckCare...

You can spin it all you want... But Hussein Odumbo and the Democrats have been a DISASTER for the Middle Class...

These are the facts that NO AMOUNT of spin will change..

Michale

As I recall, she supported the deal while serving in the Obama administration as Secretary of State but, as a presidential candidate and now the presumptive Democratic nominee she has back-peddled on her support.

Careful, Liz...

Yer gonna confuse them with FACTS and reality... :D

Michale

Uh huh... Uh huh... :D

The old, "I KNOW YOU ARE BUT WHAT AM I" rebuttal... :D

Michale

That's a favorite talking point of the right that's been debunked over and over, but go ahead and keep telling yourself that the dems are just that inept if it helps.

Arguments like that have an audience of only those who already believe them, because everyone else is plenty familiar with GOP obstructionism, and for whom the benefits of that obstruction were intended.

Really? That sounds rather naïve on her part. Once a big trade deal like this has been negotiated and signed off on - though not yet ratified - it is difficult to engage in the tweaking process. And, that is especially true when you consider that the US is currently negotiating a trade arrangement with Europe.

As I recall, she supported the deal while serving in the Obama administration as Secretary of State but, as a presidential candidate and now the presumptive Democratic nominee she has back-peddled on her support.

I am so glad to see that you have finally come to grips with exactly what Trump is ....

Ahhhhhh Let the spin begin...

Crooked Hillary said that the TPP was the "gold standard"..

THEN she said it needs to be "tweaked"...

Once again, feed your line of bull to someone who DOESN'T know the facts...

Michale

Bull carp..

Democrats had a LOCK on the government.. They could have pushed thru all sorts of goodies for the Middle Class..

But they opted for a rich payday for Insurance Companies..

Feed that line of bull to someone who doesn't know any better..

Michale

I'm not sure she ever changed her mind on the TPP, other than to say, "Sure, we could tweak it."

The difference is that the GOP (and some on the left) would happily throw the baby out with the bathwater, leaving us with a Pacific dominated by Chinese interests instead of a marketplace in which the rules have been written on our terms.

It's as if their policy is "Screw them even if it screws us, too." Oddly enough, Trump seemed to say exactly that yesterday.

Education and training for older workers.

Alleviation of student loan costs.

Infrastructure bills, which have been shot down every single year of the Obama administration, even immediately after the MN bridge collapse. Trump says he is against his own party on this one, but as I've said, the REAL plan is sitting on Paul Ryan's desk.

The Trans-pacific partnership, which extends free trade to the Pacific Rim, and re-writes NAFTA in part as well, closing loopholes that cost home-grown jobs, while opening new markets overseas. It also has the toughest worker-protection provisions ever written into a trade agreement, ever. Hillary would seek changes that further boost protection for US workers and punish companies that park profits and corporate headquarters in off-shore tax havens.

He also made the point that businesses that export pay higher wages than businesses that don't.

"Ignore the man behind the curtain.... Your lives are awesome....
-Hussein Odumbo

Whatever ya have to tell yourselves to make it thru the day... :D

Liz,

What do you make of Ms Clinton's reversal on TPP and do you think she will have another change of mind on this critical issue.

Depends on how much $$$ she can make or how much power she can collect....

Michale

What do you make of Ms Clinton's reversal on TPP and do you think she will have another change of mind on this critical issue.

I can't imagine that the US would not go forward on something as important for its influence and leadership - economically and geopolitically - in the Asia-Pacific region.

NAFTA got a bum rap for years, because the left (unions and anti-corporatists) and the far right (nativists, nationalists, and isolationists) made common cause against it. Coming as it did, just as globalism and the computer revolution kicked in, it got the brunt of blame for things that had nothing to do with it, such as dislocation due to automation and technological improvement.

Obama made this point yesterday about dislocation through automation: look at any episode of "How It's Made" and count the number of workers used in the making of most things nowadays. If you count ten in the whole episode, you've caught an unusually populated one.

He also made the point that businesses that export pay higher wages than businesses that don't.

How can ya'all complain about Trump and then support Hillary???

That's beyond me...

It's like saying how bad Hitler is, then going full on Ra-Ra-Ra for Stalin.....

Michale

That is the very point President Obama made yesterday - trumpism is not populism.

If it walks like a populist and talks like a populist........

I get it...

Ya'all have been forced to support the globalist, elitist, corporatist candidate who's a bona fide LIAR...

Sour grapes and all...

If it makes ya'all feel any better, I DO feel sorry for ya'all... :D

Michale

OF COURSE you would say that...

That's because you support the globalist, corporatist, elitist candidate...

Led by a bloviating racist with no respect for the Geneva Convention.

Of course, you can PROVE that Trump is a racist, right??

Of course you can't....

Michale

Or less - I thought Trudeau was excellent yesterday as well. ;)

And Trump is the POPULIST

I'd say he's more of an old-fashioned nativist-nationalist, rather than a populist, since he is against several things that are overwhelmingly popular in the polls, like gun control and abortion rights (which he himself supported, once upon a time). Like others on the right, pretends to be a populist by asserting that all of his policy ideas are popular (that is, those that can be discerned amid all of the self-contradicting statements he's made). Personally, I think he's actually a sophisticated parrot, repeating things he's heard on talk radio. Of course parrots only sound like they know what they're talking about.

Hey, I had a thought: if the Nationalists (Trump guys) and Socialists (Bernie guys) actually did get together, they'd be collectively: National Socialists. Led by a bloviating racist with no respect for the Geneva Convention. What could possibly go wrong?

That is the very point President Obama made yesterday - trumpism is not populism.

Here are a gaggle of "experts" who pan Trumps' business expertise...

Yet it's these same "experts" who have made the US into a 3rd World shit-hole...

Yea.. Loads of credibility there... :D

Michale

I suppose amusing is one word for it. So, I suppose, it was an appropriate description for the countless standing ovations during an hour long address by President Obama.

There was complete unity in the House of Commons as Canadians can recognize a true statesman when they see one in action for almost eight years.

Yea, cuz NAFTA has worked SO WELL for the American Middle Class... :^/

Michale

Just chaps yer arse, don't it?? :D

Ya'all are for the corporatist, globalist, elitist, establishment candidate...

And Trump is the POPULIST, Middle Class candidate...

You can't make this stuff up! :D

Michale

I'm somewhat bemused by the current attempt by the Trumpettes, and apparently Trump himself, to try to lure in the Bernie Fans by casting themselves as anti-globalists, as though Trump himself, who lends his name to products made in nearly every country except the US, were some kind of working-class hero. This man who has always had a chauffeur. him.

Does Trump even know that many, if not most of the steel factories in the US (including former US companies Bethlehem Steel and US Steel) are owned by ArcelorMittal, a multi-national that has holdings in over a dozen countries and is controlled by the family of Lakshmi Mittal, and Indian who lives in London, and that this company acquired and rebuilt a steel plant in Calvert, Alabama (a joint venture with Japanese steel giant Nippon), whose 5.3 million ton output is being produced for 'the NAFTA region'. ArcelorMittal employs more than 232,000 people worldwide and better than 37,000 in North America, including steel making facilities in Canada. Worldwide, ArcelorMittal produces 97 million tons of steel, more than doubling its closest competitor, HBIS (a.k.a. Hesteel Group), the largest steel producer in China, which brags on its website that it owns share in over 70 companies in the US, UK, Australia, Canada, and Switzerland equaling over $6 billion in investments, and have just opened new plants in South Africa and Serbia.

And ArcelorMittal is only the 91st largest company in the world, according to FORBES. Even with all that they hold, they are standing way back in the receiving line.

And this is why Trump's simplistic prescription of trade wars and tariffs is so terrifying to anyone who knows anything about it, and should be to anyone who cares about jobs and the US economy.

wow, that map is pretty telling. sharp divide between border counties and non-border counties.

JL

I resemble that remark.

Most of the maps showing the results from the Brexit Referendum show Northern Ireland (NI) as a single entity, since that is the way it reports its results. However if you look with more granularity you can see that there is a geographical divide within NI itself:

http://leftfootforward.org/images/2016/06/a-NI-identity.png

I used to take my Grandmother to visit her relatives in NI as a kid. My dad's cousin was in the Ulster Reserves and used to have a "tribal" map showing Catholic vs. Protestant areas - it basically matched up with the map above.

The Ulster protestants will have no interest in becoming part of Ireland - the peace over there is still fragile and a referendum would likely lead to violence, an outcome well known to the residents.

It isn't as easy to say that since NI voted remain this would translate to a "join Eire" vote, since many of the Protestants who voted Remain would likely "switch sides" in the case of a referendum to merge.

well it's certainly in the running for snarkiest.

;)

JL

Exactly, Liz!!!

Business as usual...

There will be no economic meltdown and beggars in the streets and petrol topping at $140 per gallon...

The globalists, elitists and corporatists are simply using fear-mongering... That is all...

Meanwhile, Canada is looking like the only sane country on the planet.

http://i.cbc.ca/1.3655635.1467112802!/fileImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/original_620/trudeau-comic-cover-20160628.jpg

Yea... sane.. :D

And, we'd love to adopt President Obama and his whole fam damly. :)

"Take our POUTUS.... Please..."

:D

Michale

Probably not something they want to brag about.. :D

If the British economy takes a big hit as a direct result, reunification might become a much more popular idea in Northern Ireland -- especially if the Scottish economy has already benefited from leaving Great Britain.

Hmmmmmm So, Britain leaving the PU, the economy of Britain will be destroyed. So says the fear-mongers... But if Scotland leaves the UK, then their economy will prosper...

Talk about double-think... :D

Awesome commentary, CW.. :D

Michale

And, we'd love to adopt President Obama and his whole fam damly. :)

Because no lesson will be learned from all of this, as per the normal course of events.

Oh and, by the way, the markets will be just fine.

Thanks for the interesting concluding comment yesterday (today).