A DNC document dated May 26, 2015 – a month after Sanders kicked off his presidential bid from the Capital lawn – described “our goals & strategy” are to “provide a contrast between the GOP field and HRC.”

“With proof that #Bernie never even had a chance, I shall double down and vote #BernieOrBust in Nov. @TheDemocrats,” tweeted “BernieOrBust,” a Sanders supporter from Chicago.
http://nypost.com/2016/06/16/leaked-document-shows-the-dnc-wanted-clinton-from-start/

Michale

the state of new york decided to engage in BDS against practitioners of BDS, and that's a legitimate political decision, not a constitutional violation. if the state of oregon decided they wanted to participate in BDS against israel, they would be equally entitled and equally accountable to their voters.

JL

I think he hangs around with Donald Drumpf and the Orange Men...

Michale

NOW yer getting it.. :D

Michale

Al, is it possible for you to discuss something without resorting to this kind of snide sarcasm?

He laid waste to a field of straw men, cable-TV pundits and the always-evil “partisan rhetoric,” by which he means anyone who disagrees with him. It was a striking display of personal anger and pent-up grievances — and a total failure of leadership during a national crisis.
http://nypost.com/2016/06/15/obamas-tantrum-a-striking-display-of-failed-leadership/

Michale

I am also constrained to point out that ISLAM is ALSO "very Anti-Gay"... So much so that muslim governments EXECUTE gay people under the auspices of islam...

Not radicals... Not jihadists... Islam GOVERNMENTS execute gay people under the auspices of mainstream islam..

And this is the religion ya'all are DEFENDING!???

It boggles the mind....

Is the Left pro-gay or pro-islam..

Because one sure as hell can't be both...

Michale

i realize you've been busy fixing this wonderful site so we have a forum to vent our issues, but when possible i'd like a response to my views on BDS and citizens united, please [112/115].

not that i agree with the JCPA on many political things, but their views on BDS are at the very least germane to the question of whether retaliation by US governmental interests is something other than "totalitarian"

http://jcpa.org/unmasking-bds/

the publicized “demands” of the BDS movement state clearly that the endgame of this punitive global campaign is to cause Israel’s implosion as the nation-state of the Jewish people and enable the creation of another Arab-majority state in its place.

presuming for a moment that this may be the case, how is government economic action against this movement totalitarian? there's a legitimate disagreement about which side is right in this conflict, and our government is entitled to weigh in on the side it supports. cuomo is not proposing military action, merely the exact same action the BDS people themselves are taking against israel.

JL

Michale

Nothing guarantees a Trump Presidency more than the Looney Left Wingery trying to equate gun ownership with terrorist attacks....

Michale

There is nothing to worry about with ISIS..

They *ARE* just the J.V. after all... Right?? :^/

Michale

Which is why we need Donald Trump..

Because our current leaders can't even recognize WHO the enemy is!!

Michale

Once again, the hypocrisy is glaring and unequivocal..

Michale

Obama??

He is still being a dumb ass....

Michale

Attacking gay bars is not tactically sound from a terrorism perspective..

Michale

101, 102

Call me crazy, but your response is the very same non-committal answer you gave the last time we discussed Israel.
I guess I can appreciate the consistency.

But, if you agree with CW, you should disagree with Hillary to maintain that consistency.

The anti-BDS gang that equates criticism of Israeli policies with anti-Semitism is flat out indefensible.

Not supporting BDS is one thing, legislating punishment against those who are exercising their right to protest is a new and dangerous and extreme position... and clearly unconstitutional.

If in place of Israel you were to substitute South Africa, Iran, oil companies, Frito-Lay or whatever, something becomes very clear... an exception is being made for Israel that wouldn't fly in any other circumstance.

With billionaires on both sides of the aisle pushing this monstrous, constitution violating agenda, and the clearly false justifications being presented, I think the true motivations of those like Hillary for violating beliefs they would profess in all other circumstances becomes clear too.

A

"The facts are mounting up...

Jihadist terrorist attack..

Not a Gay Bar hate crime attack.."

Why can't it be both? Since it is acknowledged that ISIS is also very Anti-Gay.The two could be mutually reinforcing rationales, at least in the mind of the shooter.

So says those who are completely ignorant of guns..

No insult intended..

"There is no dishonor in not knowing everything."
-Subcommander T'al, STAR TREK

Michale

What's islam's position on women?? gays?? adultery??

You REALLY want to be defending a religion that authorizes rape and murder of women? A religion that EXECUTES gay people?? A religion that stone women (ONLY women) to death for adultery??

Is that REALLY want you want to defend??

Michale

A gun is not primarily a tool for killing people. It's primarily a tool for threatening people.

Comparing Berkowitz to ISIS, Al-Qaeda, et al is like comparing apples and submarines...

No reason to label it 'Islamic' when it isn't, regardless of what it purports to be.

If it was just a random act here and there, you would have a point.

But we are talking a systematic, systemic, ongoing and pervasive level of action that has been perpetrated for over 40 years.. ALL with Islam at it's base...

If someone started a group purporting to be Christian, but believed a philosophy of "Hate thy neighbor", you wouldn't call them 'Radical Christians', you'd call them nut jobs.

*I* would call them both because BOTH are factually accurate...

And you can bet that if christianity played the part in all this violence that islam is playing, the ENTIRETY of the Left Wingery up to, AND including Obama plus every Weigantian here would ALSO be calling them radical christian terrorists..

The common thread is islam... To deny this is to deny reality..

And if our leaders can't even recognize the threat, how can they fight it??

Answer?? They can't...

Which is why we are seeing a San Bernardino and an Orlando and why we will continue to see more and more of the same...

Because you can't fight something you refuse to see as the threat...

Michale

For the same reason that David Berkowitz wasn't called a 'radical Jewish terrorist'. What he did had nothing to do with Judaism. The ideology that is espoused by ISIS or Al Qaeda has nothing to do with Islam, as most of the world understands it. No reason to label it 'Islamic' when it isn't, regardless of what it purports to be. If someone started a group purporting to be Christian, but believed a philosophy of "Hate thy neighbor", you wouldn't call them 'Radical Christians', you'd call them nut jobs.

..... or Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama.....

i'd understand you taking the point of view that economic activity is protected first amendment speech.

Michale

Who is he afraid of offending??

The radical islamic terrorists???

Michale

i mean, if you were sheldon adelson or the koch brothers, i'd understand you taking the point of view that economic activity is protected first amendment speech. my understanding was that you opposed that conceptual framework for the exercise of economic power. if you use organized economic power to support or oppose something, my view is that government has the right to impose limits on that economic power, based on the interests of our nation and its allies. how is your assertion of totalitarianism by the state of new york any different from an argument in favor of citizens united?

JL

As a proud third generation Mexican American, a father and husband to a Mexican-born wife, Trump’s hurtful words about Mexicans made me recoil.

Far from wanting to climb aboard the “Trump Train,” the candidate’s nativist words and simplistic approaches had me looking to derail it.
http://dailycaller.com/2016/06/07/a-latinos-case-for-trump/

Michale

Michale

@CW,

you've really stepped in it with this award. i agree with the governor on this point - BDS is economic warfare, not political beliefs, and israel is not apartheid south africa, it's our ally for seventy years.

if our government is allowed to protect its allies from military attacks with military force, why is it not allowed to protect its allies from economic attacks with economic force? your blacklist analogy is completely wrong.

JL

I don't get it...??

Michale

To see the fallacy in that argument, just replace the word 'gun' with the word 'penis'.

It's funny you should say that because it's the EXACT point I always make when this BDS (AKA economic terrorism) idea comes up..

BDS invariably hurts the VERY people that the BDS organizers claim to be fighting for.. In other words, it has the opposite effect..

By and large, boycotts are nothing more than haters saying, "I hate you and I am going to make sure you are hurt."

Michale

So is this the right time to put economic pressure on this country, in which so many on both left and right already feel that they're under siege? What if the result is to strengthen the right rather than weaken it, as Israelis 'rally round the flag' and try to protect their own families from economic hardship? You're already seeing Jews from the left and right in this country uniting against this idea; what makes anyone think the same won't happen there? Wouldn't that actually achieve the opposite of the results that BDS organizers desire?

So Cuomo might just be protecting both left-leaning Israeli interests and long-term American interests, as well as the actual interests of the BDS organizers themselves by pushing back on this notion with such awful blow-back potential. Imagine that.

While Obama refrained from speculating about whether Mateen’s religious beliefs might have been a factor in the rampage — or even saying the word “Islam” — he did make an appeal for tighter gun control.

“The shooter was apparently armed with a handgun and a powerful assault rifle,” the president said. “This massacre is therefore a further reminder of how easy it is for someone to get their hands on a weapon that lets them shoot people in a school, or in a house of worship, or a movie theater, or in a nightclub.”

Nope.. Obama's words were nothing but partisan, selfish and IGNORANT...

In other words, using a tragedy to push an unpopular and unnecessary agenda before the bodies are even cold..

Until such time as a gun, in and of it's own volition, walks into a crowd of people and makes a conscious and sentient decision to shoot people, then.... and ONLY then... with the anti-gun fanatics have a logical and rational point..

However......

If Obama wants to lead by example and have guns banned from his house and his security detail and the security details of EVERY single person in his administration???

I would definitely encourage him to lead by example in that manner...

THEN he might have some words to say that AREN'T blatantly hypocritical...

Michale

But I WILL say that, if Obama didn't use the correct term to describe the incident (Islamic Terrorism or words to that effect) then his words are hollow, political and without meaning...

Michale

I disagree with many of the policies of Israel's current government because I think they are counterproductive AND I understand the dynamics of the neighbourhood that Israeli's must live in.

These are very complicated issues with no easy answers.

Actually, there is a VERY easy answer with regards to the Israel/Palestinian/Iranian situation.

Palestinians and Iranians must STOP the terrorism before Israel does ANYTHING..

What could be simpler??

Michale

I am betting you are going to be alone in that position...

I think President Obama's remarks were elegant and eloquent and I wish all political leaders in the US would publically stand with him and behind his words.

I'll read his words and get back to you on it..

Do you have a link??

Michale

once again we come upon the question of whether or not the exercise of economic power constitutes protected speech. citizens united says that it does. most folks on the left say that it doesn't, unless they happen to be conducting economic "speech" against israel. BDS is aggressive economic action against a country that is allied with the United States. calling state economic action against practitioners of economic aggression a "blacklist" is miscasting the struggle as government censorship. in my view it's an equal counterbalance to economic aggression against our political ally.

JL

I can see both sides of the BDS movement and, I suspect that not everyone on either side of it has benign intentions.

I disagree with many of the policies of Israel's current government because I think they are counterproductive AND I understand the dynamics of the neighbourhood that Israeli's must live in.

These are very complicated issues with no easy answers.

You leave the opening, I'll take it.
I wouldn't laugh at you if I didn't care.

Anyway, glad you agree with CW, but I was asking about Hillary's support for the anti-BDS agenda... and CW completely ignored it... too.

A

"That's a good thing for centrists, who have their own radical agenda that the extremists have ignored"

The "centrists" recognizing that public opinion has shifted and that majorities support various issues does not make it "their own radical agenda" nor does it in any way, shape or form mean that the "extremists" on the left are now ignoring the agenda they spent decades convincing the majority to support.
You're late to our party, but we're glad you came.

"Is it wrong in this day and age when so many elections are 50/50 and polls have us divided so closely on so many issues, that when certain issues 'break out'... that the issue can be legitimately described as centrist"

Of course not.
But you were claiming ownership of our agenda and pretending that we ignore it.
Do I need to cut and paste your own words again?

Furthermore, by your definition of centrist, the policies that Bernie Sanders ran his campaign on all qualify except one... breaking up the banks only polls at 52%.
How did the "centrists" describe Bernie's policies?
I don't think they used the word centrist.
Funny... don't ya think?

Since you apparently missed the point I was making about Wall Street, middle class killing neoliberal economics, and never ending military interventionism, I consider the policies of the status quo "centrists" to be extremist.
Specifically, the policies that Hillary and her corporatist buddies support... policies that by your own definition do not qualify as centrist.
The results speak for themselves... failure at home and abroad.

Many on the left, myself included, will not vote for a candidate that opposes what we support, and supports what we oppose. Voting for your neoliberal corporatist tyrant Hillary would be condoning her disgusting, extremist policies.

You can repeat the Nader myth til the cows come home, but registered Dems voting for Bush in Florida cost Gore the election.
I would think that "centrists" would abide by the personal responsibility bit they expect of the masses.
You talk of "unity"... maybe instead of blaming the left, you should unite your own party members this election.

If you want unity with the left, nominate a candidate the left can vote FOR.
It's a simple concept.

I think President Obama's remarks were elegant and eloquent and I wish all political leaders in the US would publically stand with him and behind his words.

Do you think you can do that, Michale?

Well, isn't this a pretty pickle for the Democrat Party...

One segment of a constituency of the Democrat Party (muslims) is claiming a brutal and terroristic war against another constituency of the Democrat Party..

Will the Democrat Party finally come to grips with radical muslim jihadists and islamic terrorists to protect the gay community??

Will the Democrat Party be able to even SAY radical muslim jihadists and islamic terrorists??

Stay tuned.... :D

Michale

Nope... Just a difference of opinion...

:D

Michale

"Valid" is an extremely subjective term...

Your "not valid" is another person's VERY valid..

And both are equally important to their respective speakers..

Michale

That's the point I'm trying to make.

On a scale of 1-10, 10 being the best killing tool ever, I would rate the AR-15 about a 3... Maybe a 3.5

And, then, you can enumerate the countless uses for this tool that have nothing to do with killing humans.

Survival....

I am not sure what point you are trying to make??

Would it be a better world if we didn't need guns??

Of course it would..

Are we ever going to see a world where guns are not needed??

Not in our lifetime.. Probably not in our grandchildren's lifetimes..

As long as there are evil people who will impose their will by force or violence... Guns will always be necessary..

Michale

And, then, you can enumerate the countless uses for this tool that have nothing to do with killing humans.

An AR-15 is a tool.. Nothing more...

Michale

I didn't miss it at all..

I just gave it it's due relevance...

And, as per the usual in LEO/security issues, the facts have proven me correct..

Michale

So, we are in agreement..

An AR-15 is not an anti-gay weapon...

Michale

But... beep beep

Michale

Michale

Not sure what the choice of weapon has to do with gay/anti-gay... ???

The choice of weapon has to do with what's available on the open market. The manufacturer should be made to sponsor the coverage: "Brought to you by the AR-15 - America's mass murder weapon of choice!"

Jihadist terrorist attack..

Not a Gay Bar hate crime attack..

Michale

You just never miss an opportunity, do you, Al ... :)

Okay, I just read the MDDOTW portion of the commentary I am commenting under and, unsurprisingly, I agree with everything Chris said.

Lately, I haven't been reading the commentaries, just some of the comments ... call me lazy.

It also looks like he had a concealed carry license for the state of Florida.

It's only questioned by you and only when you have no facts to go by...

Missing a very basic investigative question and making assumptions while the investigation is on going. There are some facts that you only play an LEO on the internet...

Scumbag was a registered Democrat... :D

..so, even an anti-gay terrorist found the current GOP too radical to suit him.. ;D

And the partisan pieces are being placed.. :D

So, since we're going partisan....

Scumbag was a registered Democrat... :D

Senator Bill Nelson has been informed that the scumbag has connections to ISIS....

This is a jihadist terrorist attack...

Anything else is incidental to that central fact....

Michale

Michale

I agree completely.

I have nothing to prove here..

Michale

It's only questioned by you and only when you have no facts to go by...

Which is often..

Michale

Re: Michale [36] Looks more now like an anti-gay rampage -

And the partisan pieces are being placed.. :D

another using an AR-15.

Not sure what the choice of weapon has to do with gay/anti-gay... ???

Suspect reported to be American born.

So were the Paris terrorists...

Father says the suspect wasn't the jihad type,

All fathers say that...

but was offended when his young son saw two gay men kissing while with him in Miami recently.

That is information I did not have.. Kudos..

If accurate, then that does elevate the possibility of a gay crime...

Thank you for enlightening me.. :D

Michale

Or at least alleged...

It wouldn't be my first question, as it was yours...

Due to the obvious Islamic connections, the intel that ISIS would be striking in FL soon, I would surmise that a gay bar was just a fortunate (for the terrorist) happenstance...

There is no evidence to even hint that a gay bar was targeted beyond the Islamic Terrorists' natural hatred of gay people..

In other words, I would not be putting out an ALERT to all Gay Bars (ONLY) based on this one attack..

You first.

"Are you trying to piss me off?"
-Kevin Bacon, FOOTLOOSE

My LEO, security, military and CT experience is well-documented around these here parts.. :D

Michale

Re: altohone [32] Methinks thou protests to much. I was very careful in my use of the terms 'left', 'far right' and 'far left' in my comment, and never mentioned Wall Street, neoliberal economics, or the Military, though I look forward to a rousing discussion of those issues with you some day, perhaps.

Is it wrong in this day and age when so many elections are 50/50 and polls have us divided so closely on so many issues, that when certain issues 'break out' - which I define as polling at something close to 60% approval or better consistently, as the issue of marriage equality did in the last few years for instance - that the issue can be legitimately described as centrist, (or even 'radically centrist' since Congress will only mark them up with ten foot poles). No issue begins as a centrist, or majority-held issue: by definition every idea begins in a minority of one. That is also not to say that ideas that are not held by the majority are bad ideas: again, every idea, even the good ones, begin as minority-held ideas.
But one of the central organizing principles of our republic is that there is such as thing as collective wisdom: that under our system, voters, like customers, are always right. We've been test-driving that idea for a little over two centuries.
Now it's easy to throw lots of shade on that: a majority of people in this country believe in ghosts and angels, and that Cheetos is food. Still, that was the alternative to a crazy tyrant, so that's our system.

Now we are facing a potential crazy tyrant who has used the old 'divide and conquer' tactic to get himself nominated by a major political party. Is this really the time for us to have another Ralph Nader moment? There is still only one way to stop a crazy tyrant, and that is a unified vote against him. There is no other safe way to do it.

I'm assuming you didn't feel stupid asking who Jill Stein is, so why would you consider ignorance a "put down"?
And the corporate media blackout on Jill Stein and all things Green Party wasn't your decision.

As for "unique", being original is a compliment in my book.

There's nothing worse than parrots and plagiarists.

I look forward to your views when you get a chance to read CW's current column under which you are commenting.

A

Really? As an LEO you would not question why a gay bar at 2AM? Are you sure you have LEO experience?

Then quit pretending you do...

You first.

Yes...

I have authority and experience, training and expertise to appeal to..

That's kind my point..

Enough to ask the question...

What does your vast non-partisan experience, training and expertise tell you?? :D

I have no idea.

Then quit pretending you do...

Michale

Cut and paste appeal to authority....

Again, your VAST LEO experience tells you what questions those cops are asking???

Cut and paste appeal to authority....

Does a gay bar have any relevance??

Enough to ask the question...

Is the fact that it's a gay bar give the Left Wingery some reason to legitimately blame the Right Wingery??

I have no idea. As you are the first to bring it up, why don't you answer. Anything would be better than boiler plate fallacies...

HONEST Abe sure wouldn't change to the Party of Crooked Hillary Clinton, if that's the point you are trying to make...

Michale

No... We agree that Daily Mail UK opened up with a partisan agenda..

But, if it will make you feel warm and fuzzy to blame me??

Knock yerself out.. :D

Not something I would expect ISIS to arrange.

And your VAST experience in Counter Terrorism tells you this?? :D

I think there is something more to it.

Of course you do... I have no doubt..

I can guarantee all those hero cops are asking the same question.

Again, your VAST LEO experience tells you what questions those cops are asking???

Does a gay bar have any relevance??

Possibly.. Islamic terrorists are notoriously anti-gay...

Is the fact that it's a gay bar give the Left Wingery some reason to legitimately blame the Right Wingery??

Not even on a cold day in hell..

Michale

Yes, we agree, you opened up with a partisan agenda...

I'm curious as to why a gay bar at 2AM. Not something I would expect ISIS to arrange. I think there is something more to it. If that is a "partisan agenda" in your book, then that is an issue you will have to deal with yourself. I can guarantee all those hero cops are asking the same question. Are they merely pursuing a "partisan agenda"?

And, by 'unique', you mean what, exactly?

I didn't read that piece yet - I'll have to get back to you on the anti-BDS actions and reactions ...

Michale

If we are to believe all the verbal repudiation directed at Trump from the lips of Republican Leadership they appear to be having a collective and public "Brokeback Mountain Moment" concerning their relationship with him -

Apparently the Republican leadership had the same relationship with Reagan.... :D

Michale

That was the MSM headline, not mine.

So yes.. DEFINITELY a partisan agenda...

We agree...

Michale

Your first post on the subject also mentioned a gay bar. Guess it had even more of a partisan agenda...

If we are to believe all the verbal repudiation directed at Trump from the lips of Republican Leadership they appear to be having a collective and public "Brokeback Mountain Moment" concerning their relationship with him -

"I wish I knew how to quit you."

Uh...what?

Gay bar at 2AM.

What does a gay bar have to do with anything other than to set the stage for a partisan agenda??

The more we see of this, the more Americans will reject Hillary Clinton..

No, that is a partisan agenda...

Nope.. Just a statement of fact...

You or Paula or Liz could have made the exact same comment...

Michale

Dr. Jill Stein is the likely presidential candidate for the Green Party.

Never fear!
CW has said he is "looking at" doing a column about her in order to inform his loyal readers who the corporate media are trying to keep ignorant.

Clearly, the need is great.

Hopefully, that isn't like Hillary "looking into" releasing the transcripts of her paid speeches to criminal bankers.

Just out of curiosity, what do you think about Hillary's support for the anti-BDS efforts that CW lambasted in his bit about Cuomo's executive order?

I never tire of your unique take on things.
A

You know THAT cop will be taking every day as a gift for the rest of his life.....

Heroes... That's the only way to describe cops...

Heroes...

MIchale

Uh...what?

The more we see of this, the more Americans will reject Hillary Clinton..

No, that is a partisan agenda...

I hope so as well...

I have noticed that. And, I like it! :)

:D

Michale

I have noticed that. And, I like it! :)

I hope this horrible tragedy will bring everyone from all communities together in an unprecedented show of unity against this violence regardless of who or what inspired or directed it.

Trump's candidacy is not evidence of how dissatisfied people are with the status quo. On the contrary, it's evidence that they're not worried enough about politics to take it seriously. They're choosing entertainment value over competence.

But it's this kind of condescending politically correct attitude that makes Americans support Trump by the millions..

The idea that, if you support Trump you're just a Reality TV junkie... Only those that support are Serious well informed voters... :^/

Note.. It doesn't bother me... I am very mellow about things... :D

Michale

My mistake.. He was born from Afghani parents..

Thanx for the correction....

Michale

Michale, he was born in the United States, wasn't he?

Yes...

Michale

They may be...

Then again, they may NOT be...

We'll find out...

Michale

Gotta push that partisan agenda, eh?? :D

It's all about Right Wingers hating gay people.. :^/

There was absolutely NO EVIDENCE to support that San Bernardino was ANYTHING but a run-o-the-mill radical Islamic terrorist attack..

There is NO EVIDENCE to support that Orlando was anything but a run-o-the-mill radical Islamic terrorist attack..

Michale