Like I said... Democrats are morons....

Present company excluded, of course.. :D

Michale

If you change "VOTERS" to "DEMOCRATS" you would be dead on ballz accurate....

It's the Democrats who, en masse, really don't want a change in the Status Quo..

Republicans and Independents/NPAs have made their choice very VERY clear...

And their choice is President Trump...

Michale

That does make a lot of sense. And, I suppose, if voters really wanted a change in the status quo then Hillary wouldn't be winning all the major primaries this election cycle. So, there you go.

Yes, it is not an option for a serious voter. It's a reasonable option for a serious non-voter in a non-swing state, though.

Casting a ballot for a third party, in a single-seat plurality system, is just another way of not voting. Now technically, the president is not elected by direct plurality voting: we have the electoral college in between. But a state's electors are not its citizens' MPs, and this is not a parliamentary system. We vote for president on a plurality-by-state basis.

I would like to have multi-party politics. I would like to have multi-member "superdistricts" for the House, and majority (i.e. runoff) voting for the presidency, although I would keep single-seat plurality voting for the Senate. But the fact is that we don't have a multi-party system, and pretending we do is un-serious.

So you are asking if I am short and empty?

Something like that. Heh. In any event it's a moot point as the big debate is a definite no-go.

"If I were a United States citizen I'd put a clothes peg on my nose, a paper bag over my head, and I'd SNEAK into the polling booth and vote for Hillary"

Our voting system here in the U S and A is actually a voting prevention system. Voting for her will really only matter in a handful of purple states. We have 50 different elections. Red states are not going to flip blue just because the poorly-educated base has nominated The Thing from the Orange Lagoon.

"If Trump can be seriously considered for President of the United States, then why not a Kardashian?"

As Bill Maher pointed out on his last show, the Dems have their own version of Trump to fear and his name is Kanye.

Are you a half-glass empty kind of guy?

So you are asking if I am short and empty? Hehehe! No, I like to think of myself as being more of a "This has caffeine in it, right?" kind of person. I think Bernie could benefit from the debate in it will pressure Hillary to move further left on issues he focuses on. I think Hillary would benefit from Bernie just crushing Trumps' lies and flip/flops. But despite that, even if Bernie crushes him, I fear that Trump would still be the biggest winner in how this would hurt how Hillary is viewed as being the leader of the Democratic Party. It is a huge slam in Hillary's face that this is even being considered.

DON'T click on that link!!!

It would be bad...

"OK, I'm fuzzy on the whole GOOD/BAD thing... What do you mean, 'BAD'??"
-Dr Peter Venkmen, GHOSTBUSTERS

:D

Michale

If anyone seriously wants some points addressed, regurgitate them in the upcoming http://FTP...

I WILL address one point, however..

DecayedLiberal

Michale: look at me when I'm talking to you!

You aren't talking TO me....

Yer talking ABOUT me... :D

Michale

Something should be done about that. I wonder what nominee Trump would have to say about it. Someone should ask him.

I suppose that's one way of looking at it.

Are you a half-glass empty kind of guy?

Was I the only one who was unaware that there were 12 American POW's being held in Hiroshima that were killed by our dropping the bomb? I had never heard any mention of their sacrifice until reading about the Japanese man who fought to have their names added to the Memorial's list of victims who died in the attack. I can understand why the U.S. government wasn't going to really publicize the killing of our own members of the military, but their sacrifice seems completely absent from history books in this country.

Would you like to see a Sanders-Trump debate - I think it would be a real hoot - in every sense imaginable!

[38] I agree Trump's not stupid. But he knows nothing and thinks he knows everything, he's veryveryVERYVERY rich, he has his lawyers on speed-dial, and if anybody REALLY gets his goat he sues them.

You are in megabig trouble with that person. Stupid would have been much better.

There wouldn't be anyone questioning the unity of the Democratic Party as this is just the kind of event to unify Democrats like they have never been unified before!

Bernie could really turn this debate into another notch on his belt in pushing forward on the political revolution that he advocates, thereby advancing his ideas further and further into the Democratic platform. That would be quite enough motivation not to do anything untoward or to harm Hillary in any way.

I'm quite surprised that some democrats and their leadership are upset by this debate proposal because this whole Sanders-Trump debate thing is a win for everyone involved except, of course, for Team Trump. Which is why it probably won't happen. :(

But, you're right - why on earth would Trump put himself in that position. I mean, he's not stupid! :)

Meanwhile, I don't think Trump will do it.

And, an added bonus ... Hillary will be able to form some solid plans for the presidential debates.

Yeah, I guess I can agree with all of what you said Re. a Sanders-Trump debate. And, Sanders has certainly muddied the waters lately with respect to what his motivations would be in such a debate.

I think the DNC should get completely behind this idea and actively support it with Hillary's complete blessing. Then we wouldn't have to wonder about Bernie's motives - good, bad or indifferent - and just let him at Trump, exposing the Republican nominee for exactly who and what he is.

By keeping this debate close to the issues and forcing Trump completely out of his comfort zone and ignoring any blatant name-calling etc., this could be a phenomenal event - for Sanders, the entire Democratic Party and especially for Hillary, the soon-to-be presumptive and official Democrat nominee for President.

I'm guessing this could turn into something that Trump will be sorry he got himself into ...

Agreed. Nobody in the whole world regards the American system as a serious option when a new country founded; they all go for a parliamentary system. Look at all the former Soviet republics. Look at East Timor; look at South Sudan

But the parliamentary system, though better than the American, does not by itself turn countries into earthly paradises. In Britain there is a serious chance that we will get as our next Prime Minister a certain person called Boris Johnson. This may happen if our present PM, David Cameron, doesn't get a yes vote in the referendum on whether we stay in the European Community, and has to resign. Boris is as mad as Trump and just as big a liar.

A Parliamentary system has failed to stop Boris.

Heh.

My concern re: that is it will devolve into a slander Hllary fest. Do I think Sanders could slaughter Trump? Don't know. I think any intelligent person could if they take the gloves off.

Maybe Bernie, realizing he's going to lose anyway, would just say what needs to be said to Trump. But if Bernie went into this with the intent of it somehow helping himself win the Dem nomination I don't think he'd be properly focused. He'd be trying to do what will benefit him, not trying to do what would expose Trump as the big-mouthed, ignorant, Trust-Fund baby bully he is.

In terms of Bernie's ability to deal with Trump's insults -- I have no idea how he'd handle himself. Since I don't know what Bernie's motives are I don't know if it's a good or bad idea from the POV of defeating Trump and electing Hillary. Because I don't think electing Bernie is on the table anymore. But he apparently thinks it is.

Thanks for pointing that out; I didn't know.

Point one: the Libertarian would not stand a wax cat in hell's chance of getting elected.

Point two: I believe that libertarianism cannot be taken seriously as a political belief; I regard it as sub-adolescent. ("Sophomoric" is the American term of abuse, I believe). Likewise Objectivism – Ayn Rand's superstition of choice.

But the Libertarians sound like a great option as a protest vote. In the last British general election, and in my local county council elections a month ago, I voted Green, even though they don't stand a wax cat's, etc. Also many people would say the British Greens can't be taken seriously.

But Americans have a serious problem we Limeys don't have: Donald J Trump.

Sod all your protest votes. Remember Ralph Nader. Vote Hillary and KILL TRUMP.

Michale: look at me when I'm talking to you!

Here is another example of what makes America great and what garners President Obama so much respect abroad - if not at home, sadly:

He visited the memorial in Hiroshima and here is a transcript of his very moving speech, as transcribed by the New York Times...

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/28/world/asia/text-of-president-obamas-speech-in-hiroshima-japan.html?_r=1

He visited the memorial in Hiroshima and here is a transcript of his very moving speech, as transcribed by the New York Times...

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/28/world/asia/text-of-president-obamas-speech-in-hiroshima-japan.html?_r=1

I understand there is a third option and that the Libertarian Party is now holding its very own convention.

Apparently, their ticket consists of two former governors (Republicans, I think) who are "socially liberal and fiscally conservative" and will be on the ballot in all 50 states and, presumably, US territories or what-have-you.

Is this not an option for a serious voter in the general election?

By the way, I think you're being a little too harsh about Hillary. Did I just write that? :)

Because, focussing just on Trump's qualifications for the job, and ignoring the fact that he's an utterly horrible man, I think that if anybody wrote out a list of the skills and other attributes required of a President of the United States, Trump would fail on ALL of them.

You can't vote for a Presidential candidate if your only reason is "I'm mad as hell and I'm not taking it any more". I'm horrified that all that the Democrats can throw up as candidates is Hillary and Bernie, but at least Hillary has been a Governor's wife, First Lady, US Senator and Secretary of State. She knows what the job of POTUS entails. She may even have one or two ideals and a tiny shrivelled little concept of eight and wrong. But I'm worried sick that she seems to think that Henry Kissinger is the terrier's testicles and that Wall Street billionaires are 100% patriotic Americans.

If I were a United States citizen I'd put a clothes peg on my nose, a paper bag over my head, and I'd SNEAK into the polling booth and vote for Hillary, then slink home and get blasted on cheap supermarket Scotch. But the big point is – I'd vote for Hillary.

Americans! Do the same. You love your country. So bloody well SAVE your country!

Are you with me on hoping for a Trump-Sanders debate before the California primary?

One doesn't "debate" people like him because he doesn't believe anything or know very much outside his narrow area of focus. He is all facade. You just have to be there, unimpressed.

Michale is not a troll. I'll just leave it at that, for now.

Very nice, JFC!

Michale is, most decidedly, a US citizen. Perhaps he will cite his resume for you sometime. Or, you could just read through all of his comments. Call it a test of your inner strength. :)

Here's a question for you: How does not voting for Hillary make a person non-serious in your view?

My question to Michale is: is she just mucking about, or is she a serious person? The only way she will get to be considered serious by me is to vote for Hillary.

It's just occurred to me: she may be in fact a he! She may not even be a US Citizen!

You win the Internet!

I'm nor sure spent is the right word. Jeb basically shoveled a lot of money into deep pits.* Well, to be strictly accurate, Jeb didn't do any of the manual labor, he hired Minions. I mean the little yellow fellows with the goggles and blue work pants...who were milling about yelling Bee-Do Bee-Do Bee-Do (FIRE!) by about February of this year.

If there is a moral to this tale, it is "listen to your mom."

* This was JEB's version of his father, HW Bush, sending notes to friends and retainers. It was about as useful as Dubya cutting brush.

Not stooping to Trump's level does not mean ignoring him or ceding the battlefield.

But, you know that.

Are you still around??? :D

Michale

And, outside in the pouring rain on tiptoes trying to peer thru the window is a cold and bleak Hillary Clinton muttering incoherently...

If there are any accomplished artists out there, I would pay good money to have that scene rendered... :D

Michale..

I am also constrained to point out that Trump's masterful stroke of making this debate to benefit women's health programs was inspired..

I mean, picture the scene...

Trump and Sanders on stage, arm in arm singing and laughing.. Above the stage is a YUUUGEEE BANNER that says, "BENEFIT PARTY FOR WOMEN'S HEALTH PROGRAMS"...

And, outside in the pouring rain on tiptoes trying to peer thru the window is a cold and bleak Hillary Clinton muttering incoherently...

I mean, com'on!! If that doesn't paint a mental picture that damns Hillary to Crowley for all eternity, NOTHING will... :D

If there is a person who believes that Hillary is not completely and stupendously out-classed campaign-wise.....

Well, that person must be on Mars or in some deep dark dank cave somewhere...

Michale

This latest issue with the Trump/Sanders California Debate is a perfect example...

Hillary thought she would be cutesy and deny Sanders a California debate..

Trump saw an opportunity and took it..

"You took it!!! And broke a major rule of engagement! Then you broke another one with that circus stunt fly-by."
-Viper, TOP GUN

:D

And NOW....

But it’s once again time for us to bow in homage to his political skill as well as his good luck. The possibility of a debate between Trump and Bernie Sanders that started with a challenge on the “Jimmy Kimmel Show” and which ought to be the top political story of the day – even on the day that he formally clinched the nomination by getting past the 1,237 delegate mark — isn’t just yet another example of the Donald winning a news cycle. It’s an example of how he is cleverly undermining his already floundering general election opponent Hillary Clinton.

Demography in the form of female and minority voting blocks that Trump has alienated and the Electoral College’s tilt to the Democrats are still factors in Hillary’s favor. But Democrats need to come to grips with the fact that, while their candidate may be more knowledgeable about policy than Trump, she is hopelessly outmatched in terms of political skill and it’s unlikely that this will be the last time Trump shows he can run rings around her. That’s why the recent shift of the polls in Trump’s favor may not be misleading. This election may be far more of a problem for Democrats than anyone on either side of the aisle could have imagined.
https://www.commentarymagazine.com/politics-ideas/campaigns-elections/trump-beats-clinton-with-sanders-debate/

This perfectly illustrates Hillary's problem.. She is fighting a conventional stone age war with stone knives and bear skins while Trump is prosecuting a WOLF-359 battle with starships...

Hillary is toast....

"AND THE QUARTERBACK IS TOAST!!!"
-Theo, DIE HARD

Michale

I don't believe it's possible to debate someone who resorts to calling people names. Hillary is going to have to avoid stooping to Donald's level.

And therein lies Hillary's dilemma..

She is going to make the same mistake that the GOP candidates made..

She is going to ignore Trump and cede the battlefield to Trump...

And by the time she realizes that TRUMP is driving the train, it will be too late..

JUST like the other GOP Candidates did...

Ignore Trump?? Trump wins....

It's that simple..

Oh... and...

"Welcome to the party, pal!!!"
-John McClane, DIE HARD

:D

Michale

Ahem..

Not just in the Republican primaries..

{{{cough}}} IG Report That Proves Clinton Lied{{{cough}}} {{cough}}

They may not all have actively encouraged birtherism, but there were fully content to lie back and reap the political rewards.

"Birthism" was a construct of Clan Clinton in 2008... Credit where credit is due.. :D

How do you nail Jell-O to the wall?

Very very carefully... :D

The vaunted Clinton machine is cranking up and will no doubt be running at full steam for the general election, but a steam-based machine may not work all that well against Trump's jumbo jet of a campaign.

Excellent metaphor, CW!!!

Truly excellent...

Will Trump be rewriting the general election rules as easily as he rewrote the Republican playbook?

Why yes... Yes he will...

If so, how will Hillary react?

Poorly

The rules are being rewritten as we watch. In other words: hang on, it's going to be a wild ride. That much, at least, is certain.

yep.. yep.. yep... :D

Michale

A white rabbit hole? No, seriously. It's gonna look like Liberace meets WWE at a lemming stampede.

On the left, people responding to the same sets of circumstances in the country, with minorities experiencing far worse conditions year in and year out, turn to very different people to try to make things better.

I don't believe Trump will prevail. I can't wait for this primary to conclude so we can get on with this showdown.

I woke up the other day and realized what a total bag of air Trump is. I wish I could debate him.