"...... We must perpetuate the species, but we also must have good conversation afterwards.. That's why I'm looking for a woman who gives mind... if you know what I mean..."

:D

Michale

Michale

and above romance there's your mind going, "ah, i believe you're both right"
~robin williams live at the met

It's always "different" when you are on the receiving end..

Give you a perfect example..

Dean lied to Sam when Ezekiel/Gadreel was possessing Sam.. As a result of the subterfuge, Gadreel killed Kevin...

Flash forward a couple years...

Sam lied to Dean about working with Rowena and Castiel to remove the Mark Of Cain from Dean... As a result of the subterfuge, Charlie was killed by the Steins...

Now, if Sam would have confronted Dean with Kevin's death when Dean was blaming Sam for Charlie's death, what would Dean's response have been??

"That's different"....

It always is...

But, in reality, it never is..

Need another example???

In STAR TREK:VOYAGER END GAME, Admiral Janeway was going to use a time displacement field to travel back in time to get Voyager home sooner..

She is pursued by the USS RHODE ISLAND, captained by Captain Harry Kim who tries to stop her..

If Admiral Janeway had had her wits about her, she could have confronted Harry Kim with the time that Harry Kim used a Borg temporal interlink node to send a message back in time to Seven Of Nine (AKA 38 of DD :D ) and prevented Voyager from crashing into an ice planet and being destroyed in TIMELESS...

Of course, Harry's response would have been, "Well... That's different..."

You see the point??

It's always "different"... But it never is...

Michale

It's downright SHOCKING!!!!!!! :^/

Michale

It's what the sun does....

Michale

I don't recall hearing a Republican say that either..

This is where the GOP under Obama has done things "different"...

It's not really different at all.. Democrats opposed Bush's policies hysterically and repeatedly..

Republicans opposed Obama's policies hysterically and repeatedly...

No difference..

It's one thing to want a President to be a one term turkey; it is another to intentionally vote against your constituent's best interests and the best interests of this nation to achieve that goal.

You mean like when Democrats fought tooth and nail against Bush's CT policies???

If you see no difference, then I can't help but feel bad for you.

Feel bad all ya want, but the facts are clear..

Democrats oppose a Republican POTUS and Republicans oppose a Democrat POTUS...

Same ol, same ol... Nothing new under the sun...

Michale

But it really isn't.."

I do not recall ever hearing a Democrat say that the more a piece of legislation would be viewed as "helping Americans", the harder they had to fight to block it from passing. This is where the GOP under Obama has done things "different"...

If they voted against a piece of legislation based on differing political philosophies or views, that would not bother me. It's one thing to want a President to be a one term turkey; it is another to intentionally vote against your constituent's best interests and the best interests of this nation to achieve that goal.

Remind me when the Democrats demanded Bush repeal a law he had signed or they would refuse to support legislation that they thought would benefit their constituents? If it was not "different", then you should have no problem giving me examples. But you can't, because the Democrats did not block legislation just for the sake of it nor did they make unreasonable demands that had to be met in order to be willing to work with Bush.

The GOP refused to pass the Zagruder bill that helped cover the medical expenses of police, fire, and first responders who became ill from the destruction of the Twin Towers after 9/11. People who are dying of cancer were made to sit and wonder whether or not they would have the money available to continue their treatments. Why? Because the GOP did not want Obama to get the credit for helping these heroes.

If you see no difference, then I can't help but feel bad for you.

This is how Hillary treats Americans who don't toe her line...

And ya'all complain about how TRUMP treats people!???

Take a look at your candidate, Hillary.. She has her goons manhandle people out of her rallies...

How is that any different than what ya'all accuse Trump of??

Once again, ya'all (with few notable exceptions) refuse to see any side but one single side... YOUR side... of any issue...

Michale

And for Clinton, the lies keep piling up and the hits just keep on coming...

Michale

Facebook censors conservative news!!???

I am SHOCKED!!! SHOCKED, I tell you!!!

No... Not really.... :^/

That's the only way that the Left Wingery has a fighting chance.. Cheating.. Stacking the deck...

Michale

So much for the separation of church and state, eh??? :D

High turnout should give Clinton a win.

Only by suppressing the high turnout of Trump supporters..

Michale

There is plenty of blame to spread around...

Michale

Sounds exactly like Democrats during the Bush years...

I know, I know.. You think it's "different"...

But it really isn't...

"Your good and your evil use the same methods to achieve the same goals."
Yarnek/General George Washington, STAR TREK

:D

Michale

"yes, the GOP made it public that the first item on their agenda was to prevent a second obama term. that's always been the case, at least from kennedy forward. bill clinton found a way to deal with it, obama didn't"

I agree with your view that every president faces an opposing party bent on making them in & out in four, but Obama's first term was different in that the Republicans' made keeping Obama from signing legislation into law the sole factor in their decision making process on whether to support a bill or vote against it. The fact that Congress has been the least productive in history is not by chance. The Republicans even were willing to vote against legislation that they knew would be wildly popular with their constituents (like passing the Zagruder Bill for covering the medical expenses of first responders who became ill after the towers fell on 9/11). They kept complaining that Obama wouldn't negotiate with them, but they were the ones who had no intention of working with Obama to find common ground. You claim Obama failed to find a way to get the Republicans to work with him, but I argue that there was never a "way" for him to find! I don't care who you put in place of Obama, the results would not have changed simply because the Republicans had been taken over by extremists willing to run the country into the ground rather than work with a Democrat!

Naaaww... I don't ride that bike.. :D

Michale

Yes, Michale, I've noticed that you like to have it both ways.

It's coming down to the wire, people....

I was hoping for a 4 May announcement by Director Comey... Obviously that didn't come to pass.. :)

But it looks like that we're not going to get out of May without the announcement..

It's funny... Obama thought that he was defending Clinton when he said that she was just "careless" with handling classified material...

What he was actually doing is spelling out EXACTLY why Comey will recommend indictment...

Because being "careless", in other words, NEGLIGENT is all that is required to prosecute....

Hillary's going down!!! :D

And ya'all will see one very happy Michale on that day... :D

Michale

You are either a bigot or an anti-bigot. You cannot be both so you better make up your scrambled mind. :)

I am against bigotry under most circumstances...

But I readily concede that I DO have my bigotries..

I think that's what JM meant as well...

Michale

yes, the GOP made it public that the first item on their agenda was to prevent a second obama term. that's always been the case, at least from kennedy forward. bill clinton found a way to deal with it, obama didn't. obama chose rahm emanuel to lead the 2008 transition, a signal that perhaps he didn't take his promise of more inclusive politics seriously. instead of moving the GOP off their obstructionist position, emanuel ossified them and they hunkered down.

That's the best analysis I have seen in a long LONG time...

I rarely give you enough credit for your fair-minded and objective -ness, Joshua...

The next time I give you shit, please remind me of this... :D

Michale

if hillary gets indicted, i'd suggest bringing in biden as a last minute pinch hitter. as you said, your intuition about hillary voters isn't based on any data, it's just your own view. the main point the article brings up is that people tend to make many assumptions about hillary's support without any hard data to back them up.

[50],
the atlantic article backs up its conclusions with numerous sources of hard data. "smart" or "dumb" is an opinion; "didn't go to college" is a fact. resentment of outsiders can just as easily be harbored by naturalized legal immigrants as natural-born citizens. the article says straight out that most of the stereotypes (including those that vicente fox mentioned) don't apply.

@listen [51],

yes, the GOP made it public that the first item on their agenda was to prevent a second obama term. that's always been the case, at least from kennedy forward. bill clinton found a way to deal with it, obama didn't. obama chose rahm emanuel to lead the 2008 transition, a signal that perhaps he didn't take his promise of more inclusive politics seriously. instead of moving the GOP off their obstructionist position, emanuel ossified them and they hunkered down.

obama was in a uniquely difficult position, but he made some very inexperienced leadership decisions that continue to cost him even today. that's why i believe it's important to have someone who knows what they're doing on day 1. if not hillary then joe biden, john kerry - hell, even jeb bush.

JL

You are either a bigot or an anti-bigot. You cannot be both so you better make up your scrambled mind. :)

Thanx Obama... Thanx Democrats

:^/

Michale

Well, if you are talking about getting lots of free air time and publicity, then I agree. Of course, mass murderers do that, too. ;)

As do SEAL TEAM members who take down terrorists... ;^)

but I don't think anyone thought the Republicans would completely refuse to negotiate on every piece of legislation that Obama supported

You DO realize that Obama and the Republicans are working together and have worked together on many an agenda...

The GOP's treatment of Obama was no different than the Democrats treatment of Bush...

A lot of hysterical hyperbole but then Obama and Bush got pretty much, anything they wanted...

Michale

As do SEAL TEAM members who take down terrorists... ;^)

but I don't think anyone thought the Republicans would completely refuse to negotiate on every piece of legislation that Obama supported

Michale

"one of the reasons obama got off on the wrong foot to start his presidency was he didn't know how to herd the cats who were out to get him. it took two years for him to figure out what to do, and by that time a lot of the damage had been done"

But there was no possible way to "herd in the cats who were out to get him." Obama did absolutely everything he could have done to gain bi-partisan cooperation from the Republicans -- but the GOP did something that no other Congress has done before: they made blocking the President from passing any legislation that would be viewed as helpful to Americans their sole purpose in Congress. Yes, I realize other Congresses have voted out of spite on legislation instead of doing what was best for their constituents, but they didn't begin day one of the presidency and continue on for seven years without cease! You literally had members of Congress voting against legislation that they, themselves had introduced; but ONLY because and after Obama signaled he supported the bill and would sign it into law if it made it to his desk! How could Obama have seen that coming? Obama was a Senator, so he DID have some experience in government, but I don't think anyone thought the Republicans would completely refuse to negotiate on every piece of legislation that Obama supported -- regardless of how many years they had been in government work!

"Say what you want about Trump, but he DOES have the media dancing to his tune.. :D

Well, if you are talking about getting lots of free air time and publicity, then I agree. Of course, mass murderers do that, too. ;)

4. They Live in Parts of the Country With Racial Resentment

That's a Left Wingery assessment and the only one that is truly accurate and free from ideological bias is #2...

And, coincidentally, that is the one that is actually the most prevalent Trump Supporter trait by far...

And that trait has stitched together a far reaching and diverse crowd of Americans..

Republicans, Democrats, black Americans, white Americans, hispanic, rich, poor, middle class......

Trump supporters cut a WIDE swath all up and down the diverse Americans spectrum..

As I have often said, Trump is a TRUE progressives DREAM candidate...

If Trump had run as a Democrat, there would have been NOTHING to stop him from winning the Presidency... I would have even voted Democrat again, even though I got royally burned the last time I did..

Michale

sure i disagree with {Hillary} on some important issues,

Would it be fair to say that you also AGREE with Trump on some important issues??

There are several issues that Trump is to Hillary's LEFT on...

So, if you disagree with Hillary on SOME issues but agree with her on others... And you disagree with Trump on SOME issues but agree with her on others.....

The question becomes...

Why Hillary over Trump???

Michale

And the fact that she refuses to apologize to those she wronged makes the bad behavior on-going...

but that doesn't reflect at all on her ability to do the job as president.

It shows a level of hypocrisy and bad-judgement that is ALSO indicated by current actions in the here and now...

and has become a national symbol of a powerful woman who can escape the shadow of a powerful man and become respected worldwide in her own right.

That's your opinion and I do respect that. More so than many others here. :D

But the truth is, Hillary is "respected" by a small small percentage of the world's population..

She is feared much more than respected (a type of respect, I grant you) but she is hated by far FAR more of the world's population..

And why is she hated??

Because of her sense of entitlement. Her sense that the laws and rules don't apply to her... Her DO AS I SAY NOT AS I DO attitude...

Michale

https://newrepublic.com/article/131762/hillary-voter

Not much real data on the hillary voter..

But what I take away from that article is that the Hillary voter is the voter who wants free stuff, the voter who wants to continue to be the victim, the voter who wants the status quo, who wants to continue to have Wall Street pulling the strings of their POTUS..

Yep.. That sounds exactly like the Hillary voter...

Michale

"4 Lefts??? 4 lefts is a circle you idiot!"
-Nicholas Cage, TRAPPED IN PARADISE

:D

Michale

Trump goes after Hillary very nastily and it's covered by three major news sources... :D

Say what you want about Trump, but he DOES have the media dancing to his tune.. :D

Michale

Then you are one of the few exceptions around here..

You'll notice that no one else has stood up to be counted, eh? :D

Acknowledging that there are those few who are on record as opposing such bigotry.. Ya'all know who you are.. :D

I am an equal opportunity anti-bigot. Can you say the same?

Abso-frakin'-loutly..

But I am also faithful to truth in advertising. :D

And, when Trump stated that most of illegal immigrants are rapists and murderers and drug dealers, he was being somewhat accurate...

Michale

unless she gets indicted (which i think is doubtful), she'd be the best of the three at being president.

OK, now we're getting somewhere..

Say, for the sake of the argument, that Hillary is the nominee, Bernie is out and then Hillary gets indicted.

What's your position then??

Michale

https://newrepublic.com/article/131762/hillary-voter

trump supporters tend to fall mostly into the following 4 groups:

1. They Didn’t Go to College

2. They Don't Think They Have a Political Voice

3. They Want to Wage an Interior War Against Outsiders

4. They Live in Parts of the Country With Racial Resentment

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/03/who-are-donald-trumps-supporters-really/471714/

you'll note that none of those categories is necessarily white, male or non-hispanic.

hillary clinton supporters on the other hand are very numerous, but not a lot of statistical analysis has been published about it. are the results just less interesting?

JL

"Trump supporters are nothing but lazy uneducated TV-watching drunks"
-Vicente Fox
I am SURE that ya'all will fall all over yerselves in castigating Fox for his blatant and unabashed bigotry...

Actually I DO condemn those remarks. Just like I condemn Trumps remarks about Mexicans being rapists and criminals. Or when conservative commentators on blogs call Hillary or Sanders supporters "Liberal Retards." I am an equal opportunity anti-bigot. Can you say the same?

It was interesting to watch how the Obama/Biden relationship evolved over the course of the administration.

maybe obama didn't listen enough to biden. maybe he listened too much to rahm emanuel. took nearly two years (november '08 to october '10) for rahm to leave. good for the country, sad for chicago.

JL

The bureaucracy of government might be a little shocking to his system.

That may qualify as the understatement of the year.

That might be true, Joshua, if the vice president wasn't Joe Biden.

regardless of whether or not we want to believe it, experience in the government tends to be helpful to new presidents. one of the reasons obama got off on the wrong foot to start his presidency was he didn't know how to herd the cats who were out to get him. it took two years for him to figure out what to do, and by that time a lot of the damage had been done. there's always been tension between the powers of the three branches, no matter what party you are - and the type of politicking that gets you elected is very different from the type that lets you effectively govern.

hillary has a lot of experience in that type of politics, bernie has a little experience and donald (just like obama in '08) has next to no experience. sure i disagree with her on some important issues, and it would be nice if there were someone available who was a better fit for the job of president than hillary, but there isn't. right now she is the best we have. unless she gets indicted (which i think is doubtful), she'd be the best of the three at being president.

JL

. . . and he says he's going to bring the hillbillies their coal jobs back too. In addition to trade wars, his economic plan apparently includes putting the frackers out of business.

True, but three left turns does make a right.

no, what qualifies her is what qualifies you, me, trump or anyone else, she's a natural born citizen over 35 who has lived here over 14 years.

what makes people willing to vote for her is that she's worked competently in all three branches of government, has shown she can handle the rough and tumble of politics, and has become a national symbol of a powerful woman who can escape the shadow of a powerful man and become respected worldwide in her own right.

JL

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2014/02/why-hillary-clinton-wont-pay-for-disparaging-her-husbands-accusers/283801/

heh Now THAT was funny!! :D

Michale

What happened to Monica Lewinsky afterwards may not have been right, but the part I made fun of was her own doing.

Oh it was ALL her own fault.. I am certainly not claiming otherwise...

Lewinsky is far from a victim in all this..

My only point is that Hillary is running on a platform of the idea that sexual assault victims MUST be listened too and believed...

But the ONLY time we know that Hillary was involved in something along those lines, HILLARY was the one bent on destroying the sexual assault victims...

"You drag a hundred dollar bill thru the trailer park and you get these women.."

And ya'all contend that TRUMP has a problem with women!???

Step back and assess the logic of THAT position, eh!?? :D

MIchale

Yea, that's what she claims.. But she also claims she had to dodge sniper fire in Bosnia... :^/

Further, Joe Biden claims he had more to do with that then Hillary...

And Joe Biden has more credibility in his little pinky nail than Hillary has in her whole body...

she rebuilt the US international reputation from all-time lows.

Libya... 'nuff said...

And her decision to use a private home-brew insecure email server SOLELY to evade FOI requests, AT BEST, shows an appalling lack of good judgement....

I mean, forget about partisan politics... A logical objective assessment of Hillary Clinton shows she is NOT qualified for POTUS...

The *ONLY* thing that qualifies her is she has a vagina...

Michale

Yea.. And Trump calling illegal immigrants "rapists" and "Murderers" is certainly an example of Trump being less than perfect... :^/

It works both ways...

but i don't think the way you reacted poorly twenty years ago by publicly shaming the person who your spouse cheated with is an indication of fitness to be president.

If it was JUST Lewinsky, you might have a point..

But it wasn't just Lewinsky.. It was DOZENS of women.

It's also kinda a big thing since she is running on the platform of BELIEVING sexual assault victims, not DESTROYING sexual assault victims...

Don'tcha think???

Michale

And so has Trump...

i'm not calling hillary the second coming of LBJ, but there's a solid record of positive change. what's trump's record?

Shurley, you jest...

Do you know how many JOBS Trump has provided...

You want me to see the good that Hillary has done, yet you refuse to see the good that Trump has done..

Non sequitur...

Michale

whether or not she becomes the president, she has made it the norm for a woman to run and to be a front-runner. she was among the first who tried to make health care happen in 1992, and was largely responsible for the SCHiP program. she was instrumental in convincing president obama to approve the operation to get bin laden. she did a serviceable job in the senate, notwithstanding the vote to authorize force in iraq. she has already successfully negotiated a ceasefire in israel. she rebuilt the US international reputation from all-time lows.

i'm not calling hillary the second coming of LBJ, but there's a solid record of positive change. what's trump's record?

JL

Apples and alligators..

One of Hillary's platforms is defense of women who were sexually assaulted...

The fact that Hillary was instrumental in destroying the lives of women who were sexually assaulted and raped by Bill Clinton....

Well, that just can't be pooh-pooh'ed away....

Besides, The whole Lewinsky affair could have just been a misunderstanding caused by dyslexia.

Yea, I am sure Lewinsky felt it was just a big misunderstanding... :D

Michale

And so it begins...

Couldn't happen to a more deserving rhymes-with-witch... :D

Michale

Uh... Yea... That's what I said..

Vicente can be excused for getting a few minor details wrong. Lazy Trumpthugs are poorly-educated rather than uneducated and, while they're watching WWE and TLC, their drug of choice is Oxycontin.

Yea... No bigotry there... :^/

Like I said.. Ya'all don't mind bigotry, hatred and intolerance...

Just as long as it's the Right people who are targeted...

Michale

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/pelosi-vicente-fox-plot-to-defeat-trump-mexican-calls-trump-voters-lazy-drunks/article/2590642

Vicente can be excused for getting a few minor details wrong. Lazy Trumpthugs are poorly-educated rather than uneducated and, while they're watching WWE and TLC, their drug of choice is Oxycontin.

I am SURE that ya'all will fall all over yerselves in castigating Fox for his blatant and unabashed bigotry...

{{cchiiiirrrrrppppp}} {{chiiiirrrrrrppppppp}}

Yea... That's what I thought.. :^/

Michale

Yea...

A former leader of one of THE most corrupt countries in the world is going to lecture Americans about working hard!???

Ya'all just HAVE to know that crap like this from the likes of Fox and Pelosi is just going to make more and more Trump supporters..

So, by all means. Continue to have Democrats collude with foreign despots and scumbags against Americans...

It'll make Trump's win all the more sweet...

Michale

Looks like those who supported the JCPOA got had and were manipulated by the Obama Administration...

Puts it all in perspective..

Michale

And Hillary has proven that nuance and fine-line-walking is not her strong suit..

She is going to get demolished.. Even without the coming indictment..

Speaking of which, Hillary got caught in ANOTHER lie.. She told Andrea Mitchell that her and her staff has NOT been contacted by the FBI for interviews..

Turns out the FBI has been interviewing Hillary's staff for WEEKS!!!

And Hillary's neck is next up on the chopping block..

And here's the thing..

Hillary is facing not ONE deposition under oath, not TWO depositions under oath, but THREE... count em... UNO DOS TRES depositions under oath..

And if all of those depositions don't line up PERFECTLY.....

Guess who's going to jail???

Michale

Well said...

Hillary needs to play a whole new game when it comes to running against Trump..

The ONE time she tried, Trump handed her ass to her all bloodied and chewed.. She shut up real quick after that...

Hillary is way WAY over her head...

Trump eats pieces of shit like her for breakfast.. :D

Michale

Ronald Reagan...

Republicans are thus left with a choice: back the party's nominee or denounce the party's nominee. So far, some have gravitated towards Trump, but many notable names have moved as fast as they can in the opposite direction. The two living Republican ex-presidents both said they would skip the party's convention (this was not too surprising, considering George H. W. Bush's age, and George W. Bush's presidential record). Also skipping the party will be the two previous Republican presidential candidates, John McCain and Mitt Romney. That's not exactly a vote of confidence for Trump. Speaker of the House Paul Ryan (who has a few presidential ambitions of his own) said yesterday he isn't ready to back Trump yet.

That just shows their level of immaturity..

"My candidate didn't win!! Waaaaa Waaaaa!!!! So I'm going to stay home and act like a spoiled brat!! Waaaaa Waaaaaa!! That'll show 'em!!!"

Pathetic...

No other words describes it..

Pathetic...

Of course, there's plenty in all of this to amuse Democrats.

{{cough}} {{{cough}}} #NeverHillary, #BernieOrBust

..... ^^^ real coughs... :D

Anyone could plausibly run, if Sarah could conceivably be leader of the nation. No experience was necessary, and

Obama proved that beyond ANY doubt..

Funny how everyone ignores this little factoid.. :D

Of course, Trump becoming the nominee means a whole lot of inside-the-Beltway "journalists" and pundits are having to eat large helpings of crow, right about now. Dana Milbank of the Washington Post is literally going to have to "eat his words" (he promised he'd eat a newsprint version of his "Trump will never be the GOP nominee" column if it ever came to pass -- he's now soliciting recipes for how he'll do this). Data guru Nate Silver has been taken down several pegs this year (as late as November, Silver was still snarkily proclaiming: "For my money, that adds up to Trump's chances [of winning the nomination] being higher than 0 but (considerably) less than 20 percent. Your mileage may vary."). Other pundits have been issuing their own mea maxima culpa statements, in chagrin.

Yet, one amongst us stands tall and holds his head high.. :D

In other words, the one big lesson everyone should have learned by now is that "It'll never happen" is no longer an acceptable brush-off when predicting how this whole thing will turn out.

A million quatloos says that the lesson has NOT been learned...

Regarding Obama's childish snarkiness...

He said many of the same things about Trump during the primary.. And they probably HELPED Trump to win the nomination...

Basically, Obama is looking millions and millions of Americans in the eye and saying, "Yer a bunch of frakin' morons!!"

Par for the course from our so-called "leader"...

We'll see who is the frakin' moron come November..

Michale

I think that running the ads that have trump speaking not only gives him more face time, it opens the door to more free air time for trump when he reacts to those ads. To run these types of ads pretty much has the dems walking into the "we got this in the bag" trap. The end result of these ads is that is will only piss off the dedicated trump supporter and could push the "protest" trump supporter firmly into the trump column.

As I have said before, this is the Dems race to lose, but, they have to avoid the habits of previous campaigns and mental perspectives. In this election the GOP are not the only ones that need a reboot, aside from the obvious Dems, add the media as well, time for them to get back to being the fourth estate. Perhaps it is time we reinstate the old "equal time" requirements.

If the Dems fail to learn the lessons of the full frontal assault coupled with the "tit for tat" defense that was on dispaly in the GOP primary, they will lose. The smart young and hungry operative will realize that the way to go is to ignore the trumpbait and run a "here is what we think will work and here is how" campaign, designing responses to a trump attack in such a vein.

Unfortunately, there are no new young up and comers at the helm in this go around so we are doomed to a repeat of history, and that could easily lead to a trump presidency.

I hope for change, but i just don't see it....

Smart but, not too sophisticated.

Hillary is going to have to walk a very fine yet wobbly line in opposing Trump.