Michale

"Dood looks like a lady...."
-AeroSmith

:D

Michale

Well, I am sure glad that it's only TRUMP supporters who are violent!!

:D

Michale

from the text of the article:
"Six years after the ACA took effect, it has, perhaps more than any law passed in the previous five decades, narrowed income inequality, saved lives, and reduced financial anxiety."

seems to me like the debate is still in full swing.

Granted that's not a tangible "hurt" as you are probably referring to....

thank you for acknowledging that the two things you're comparing are not the same. that being the case, i don't understand why you think the comparison is still valid.

JL

Behind a pay wall.. :(

Michale

I know you do... :D

That's part of my point.. :D

Michale

But it's close enough to make my point a valid point...

Michale

for all their bluster and bellyaching, the republican congress hasn't actually managed to take away anyone's healthcare, and you still haven't provided a citation to substantiate your claims. as to the question of obamacare's "failed already" status, i think that's still up for debate.

http://tinyurl.com/zkhjuwl

Proof??

All the glee expressed at the failure of the Republican Congress to get things done for the people of this country...

Michale

no, we don't - and if you're going to make that accusation you'd best provide some actual proof. in order for an appeal to hypocrisy to be a valid argument, the other side has to have actually done the same thing, apples to apples. on various issues you have a habit of appealing to hypocrisy that doesn't exist, citing examples that are insufficient or don't align, and seem to believe you've made a point, when in fact it's just the same logical fallacy (tu quoque) over and over.

"insufficient facts always invite danger"
~Spock, star trek S1:E22 (space seed)

JL

If you say so... :D

many of us warned very early on that bush's policies would have horrific impacts, and pleaded with our democratic congresscritters to fight tooth and nail against them...

And many from the Right & Center warned Democrats about the dangers and pitfalls of TrainWreckCare...

i happen to believe obama's insurance exchanges will muddle through, and most folks will be slightly better off as a result.

You DO realize that most have already failed...

but if the disaster you've been predicting since its passage in 2010 actually does come to pass, i'd implore you to respect the people who its collapse would injure and not cheer too loud.

Let me put it this way...

I'll respect those people as much as ya'all respected the people who lost their health plans that they liked and those who are paying tons more for less coverage...

Howz that? :D

Michale

many of us warned very early on that bush's policies would have horrific impacts, and pleaded with our democratic congresscritters to fight tooth and nail against them (the dems rolled over as a matter of course, leading to CW nicknaming his MIDOTW award "the golden backbone"). but as these policies turned into the disasters we knew they would become, i don't recall experiencing an ounce of enjoyment on any of our parts.

i happen to believe obama's insurance exchanges will muddle through, and most folks will be slightly better off as a result. but if the disaster you've been predicting since its passage in 2010 actually does come to pass, i'd implore you to respect the people who its collapse would injure and not cheer too loud.

JL

That should have been said with a ":D".... My apologies..

Michale

Ya'all enjoy when Republican plans fail, even though the American people get hurt in the process...

What makes ya'all so special??

Michale

Not at all.. YOU were the one that brought up the suffering of the American people..

I simply pointed out that the suffering of the American people should have been your consideration BEFORE they were forced into this trainwreck called Obamacare..

Don't get mad at me because I still kicked it thru the uprights after YOU moved the goal posts..

my point here, and my ONLY point, is that you wrote you would ENJOY watching if the obamacare exchanges failed.

No, your point was the suffering of the American people..

maybe you're wrong and maybe you're right, but nobody should ENJOY heathcare failing.

Let me put it this way... If there is a bad plan that is causing people heartache and misery... Well, wouldn't YOU be happy when it fails???

Michale

maybe you're wrong and maybe you're right, but nobody should ENJOY heathcare failing.

The time to be compassionate about Americans and their HealthInsurance problems is *BEFORE* they are lied to and sandbagged into a total clusterfrak....

Wouldn't you agree???

Michale

You slam me for my lack of compassion..

Where was yours for THOSE Americans??

Taaa daaaaaaaa

Michale

How many times were ya'all told that ObamaCare was a train wreck and wouldn't come CLOSE to doing ANYTHING ya'all claimed it would???

But ya'all supported it anyways because Obama The Messiah said so...

Where was your compassion for Americans then???

to paraphrase: the rest of weigantia are just as bad for wanting obamacare to work (and thereby save people) as you are for wanting it to fail (and thereby hurt people).

What part of IT CAN'T WORK do you not understand???

It's FLAWED... It ignores basic reality.....

Ya'all are epitomizing insanity..

Doing the same thing over and over hoping for a different result..

OBAMACARE **CAN'T** WORK.......

It's THAT simple...

Michale

seriously? you say how much you will enjoy it if the insurance exchanges come crashing down, harming millions of people. AND when called on this insensitivity to human suffering, you're accusing the rest of us of... what exactly? equal insensitivity for thinking the obamacare exchanges might reduce the uninsured (which factually speaking they have), and saving thereby lives?

to paraphrase: the rest of weigantia are just as bad for wanting obamacare to work (and thereby save people) as you are for wanting it to fail (and thereby hurt people).

most transparently ridiculous tu quoque fallacy ever.

now if that doesn't get us to 300, i don't know what will.

JL

Let's drag this puppy up to 300 comments!!! :D

Michale

I am also constrained to point out that TrainWreckCare won't prevent people from going broke due to illness or injury...

It simply means that Americans have to pay MORE up front costs..

I won't even bother mentioning the FACT that Obama and Democrats had to blatantly and constantly LIE about TrainWreckCare and had to use parliamentary tricks and backroom deals to get it to pass..

Finally, since ya'all want to talk about the welfare of the American people (when it suits ya :D).....

It's ALSO a bona fide fact that the American people do not want, did not want and never have wanted TrainWreckCare....

"None of these facts are in dispute, Mr President!!!"
-Klingon Ambassador, STAR TREK VI, The Undiscovered Country

Michale

Of course there is nothing good about that..

BUT....

Maybe Democrats (and ya'all incidentially) should have thought about that BEFORE ya'all spawned this abortion called **AFFORDABLE** Care Act...

No one seemed to care about those "human beings" back when it mattered, eh???

It's funny how the welfare of Americans is only in play when it suits the Democrat Party agenda..

Crocodile tears, people.. Crocodile tears...

Michale

We can only hope.

He's probably just putting on an act. :)

Yep.

@Michale,

Regardless of whether or not it happens, I don't think the collapse of human beings' ability to treat their sicknesses without going broke is anything to enjoy. Not even in the hypothetical.

last year’s premium for the popular silver-level plan surged 11 percent on average. Although Tavenner didn’t mention deductibles, in 2016, some states saw jumps of 76 percent, while the average deductible for a 27-year-old male on a silver plan was 8 percent.

You are correct. We WILL see... :D

Michale

We'll see. I'm not sweating it.

If Tavenner is right, Obamacare will jump dramatically—last year’s premium for the popular silver-level plan surged 11 percent on average. Although Tavenner didn’t mention deductibles, in 2016, some states saw jumps of 76 percent, while the average deductible for a 27-year-old male on a silver plan was 8 percent.

Affordable, my arse!

:D

Michale

You can't because it doesn't exist..

That right there proves that TrainWreckCare is a failure of epic proportions...

EPIC FAIL..

Michale

You can spin disastrous news into news that sounds almost pleasant! :D

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/aca-critics-shouldnt-cheer-the-unitedhealth-news-too-much

AGAIN.. OF COURSE msnbc is going to say it's no big deal..

That's just like the Obama Administration saying it's no big deal..

But what do sites like FORBES and BLOOMBERG and ECONOMIST say??

It's a disaster...

You quote the Administration and the Administrations propaganda machine and THAT's your "proof" that everything is awesome.. :D

Inadvertently, I am sure, but you prove my point for me...

TrainWreckCare is living up to it's moniker... All but a handful of Exchanges have gone down the tubes, Health Insurance Companies are dropping TrainWreckCare left and right...

But, by all means. Continue to fiddle while Obamacare burns...

It just makes the final collapse of that monstrosity all the more enjoyable for those who KNEW it was going to happen..

Michale

Funny you should ask that:
http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/aca-critics-shouldnt-cheer-the-unitedhealth-news-too-much

Steve Benen is the blogger for Rachel Maddow -- he used to be at Washington Monthly which has an excellent blog. Couple quotes from the article:

There’s a dedicated team of officials and activists who are always on the lookout for bad news about the Affordable Care Act. This week, they seemed to find some.

They should probably take a deep breath, because while the UnitedHealth announcement certainly isn’t good news, it’s not evidence of a crisis, either.

More

The Washington Post article on this highlighted a report from the Kaiser Family Foundation that found the impact on consumers is likely to be relatively modest: “Even if United exited all states, most marketplace enrollees would still have the ability to choose between three or more insurers. An average health plan used as a benchmark would be about 1 percent more expensive if United had not participated in 2016.”

But what about what this says about the larger system? TPM’s Tierney Sneed reported yesterday that this week’s announcement is “not the sky-is-falling, death-spiral fever dream that conservatives are making it out to be.”

Article goes on to explain UnitedHealth has been a small player in the individual markets -- it wasn't suited for the Exchanges, which are geared to individuals and single families and not groups.

No one here has ever claimed the ACA was perfect. I see it as a work in progress. But your constant assertions of DISASTER!!!!!! just make you look both uninformed, completely partisan, and prone to hysterics. Tell me, do you keep a full supply of smelling salts on hand? Or do you prefer to burn feathers under your nose?

Of course, the Obama Administration rep would say that.. Do you expect them to actually TELL THE TRUTH about Obamacare/??

You DID read how a MAJOR health insurance provider is dropping TrainWreckCare in all but a small handful of states, right??

How can ANYONE claim that TrainWreckCare is a success???

Michale

Benjamin Wakana, a Department of Health and Human Services spokesperson, said on Thursday that changes in health care insurance rates are “not a reliable indicator” of what typical consumers on average will pay. “Marketplace consumers would do well to put little stock in those initial numbers,” he said in an email.

I read articles all the time about the state of the ACA. We'll see what actually happens.

Just like you won't read the article about how TrainWreckCare premiums are going thru the roof..

Right?? :D

Michale

By jove, I think he's got it!!! :D

Michale

All you have to do is prove that there is enough factual evidence to support your pet causes as there is to support evolution...

Once ya'all do that, I'll be happy to concede the point..

But not until then...

Michale

No.

OK.. Then point to the AFFORDABLE part of the Affordable Care Act?? :D

Betcha can't... :D

He won't. Good posts!

I do.. The problem (for ya'all anyways) is that I read the ENTIRE article... :D

Michale

[274] Bashi:Try reading the article rather than being a "slave to your ideology" or other copypasta du jour that furthers your political bias or whatever you are trying to do with your silly proclamations and grandiose announcements of "victory"

He won't. Good posts!

So much for the AFFORDABLE part of the Affordable Care Act..

Anyone ready to concede that ObamaCare is, indeed, TRAINWRECKCARE???

Anyone??? Anyone??? Beuhler??? :D

Michale

Did he?? The investigating officer in the George Zimmerman shooting put MANSLAUGHTER in the charge slot of the sheet... But that doesn't necessarily mean anything...

My point?? You can nit pick at individual innuendos but when one views the overall big picture, the facts become clear..

Not only are these theories on the same planet, they are interconnected.

Again, you miss my point...

The support for the theory of evolution is infinitely more than the support for the theory of BornThatWay/HumanCausedGlobalWarming..

Once BTW/HCGW evidence rises to that of evolution, then I'll consider it...

Not until then..

Michale

But in this case are they facts? The head of investigations and lead investigator of the case dispute much of that book and specifically he was some sort of drug kingpin or even a drug dealer...

If the "theory" of being borne gay (and the THEORY of Human Caused Global Warming incidentially) was even on the same planet as the "theory" of evolution, then I would have a much easier time believing it...

Not only are these theories on the same planet, they are interconnected. The article you linked to had an interesting bit about the genes that are linked to homosexuality likely survived the process of evolution by making the women who carried them more fertile.

Try reading the article rather than being a "slave to your ideology" or other copypasta du jour that furthers your political bias or whatever you are trying to do with your silly proclamations and grandiose announcements of "victory" that most readers are more likely to snicker at than agree with...

My faith in humanity is restored.. :D

the trouble with these definitions is that they're frequently misused in lay conversation. for example, darwin's view on evolution is still technically considered a theory, but it's so close to being a law it's often referred to that way.

Funny you should mention that as I was just thinking that very thing myself recently..

If the "theory" of being borne gay (and the THEORY of Human Caused Global Warming incidentially) was even on the same planet as the "theory" of evolution, then I would have a much easier time believing it...

But it's not so I can't... Maybe in a hundred years when our science has growed up, it might be.. :D

Michale

of course i could. true practice of scientific method requires that all conclusions remain in question, if only infinitesimally. those views that come closest to being completely without doubt are called laws. those that are almost universally accepted as true but retain a sliver of doubt are called theories. views with any higher level of doubt are called hypotheses.

the trouble with these definitions is that they're frequently misused in lay conversation. for example, darwin's view on evolution is still technically considered a theory, but it's so close to being a law it's often referred to that way.

Given Shepard's history and the evidence, there was not hate crime in the sense that ya'all define hate crime..

Shepard was killed during a drugged craze by one of Shepard's drug clients.. This is what the evidence shows...

Just like the evidence that showed George Zimmerman shot Trayvon Martin in self-defense. Just like the evidence that showed Michael Brown viciously attacked Officer Darren Wilson and went for Wilson's gun...

Facts are not biased, bigoted or racist. They're just facts...

psychology on the other hand is one of MY areas of expertise, and i would hope my professional opinion carries a little weight in this area. I've probably read about ten times more studies on human development than you or anyone else here. thanks to recent advancements in brain imaging, hormone chemistry, DNA mapping and cross-cultural social psychology, the body of research on sexual orientation is at this point unequivocal. if you insist on giving equal weight to an a priori assumption based on data from fifty years ago and your limited anecdotal knowledge, i find that both foolish and insulting.

Far be it from me to be insulting! :D

Yes, your assessment should be given more credibility and weight than mine on this issue..

And I readily admit that I could be 1000% wrong and that being gay is 10000% genetic with absolutely NO CHOICE in any part of being gay...

So, I could be wrong... Given my personal experiences, I don't think I am...

But I could be...

Could you??

Michale

which book? you're the law enforcement expert, so i believe your opinions in those areas carry extra weight. if your professional judgment based on all you've read and seen is that the attack on shepherd wasn't based on his sexual orientation, i'll accept that opinion is more likely to be the case.

is the same willingness to ignore all the science that indicates being gay is a choice

JL

"Nowhere in [the Constitution] does it say the Senate has a duty to give presidential [nominees] a vote."
-Harry Reid

:D

Michale

Until ya'all can address ALL the science and not just the science that supports the agenda, ya'all will be a slave to your ideology...

Nothing more...

Michale

You tap dance better than Biga... And THAT says something..

But I know what you meant and YOU know what you meant...

Michale

Note that I was not calling you an imbecile but that you were playing the imbecile. Which is not really an ad hominem. I was accusing you of playing dumb (which I hope you were) but switching out dumb for a...sharper term.

And what was Hillary's exact promise?

Of course, because you are blinded by a hysterical ideological agenda, you can't acknowledge the facts...

But it's typical of the Left Wingery.. Promise all sorts of stuff, but then fail to deliver..

More copypasta...does it come with a pesto sauce?

Not half as sad as self congratulating a "victory" as way to gloss over poor reading skills.

Yea.. That's your claim.. But it's based on ideological slavery, so it's not a valid claim...

More copypasta?

Be nice when President Trump takes office.. :D

Michale

It wasn't Lee who said the funds would be there.. It's Hillary..

Of course, because you are blinded by a hysterical ideological agenda, you can't acknowledge the facts...

But it's typical of the Left Wingery.. Promise all sorts of stuff, but then fail to deliver..

Michale

That's sad that you think so...

You disproved your own argument. I just pointed it out by reading the links you posted to back it up.

Yea.. That's your claim.. But it's based on ideological slavery, so it's not a valid claim...

Michale

Ask Utah Republican Sen. Mike Lee why that is...

Thank you for your concession that you have no logical or rational response and must therefore resort to childish personal attacks and immature name-calling..

It's not a personal attack when demonstrably true. And boy did you demonstrate! Twice!

Your concession of my superior argument is appreciated, albeit irrelevant...

You disproved your own argument. I just pointed it out by reading the links you posted to back it up.

You have already lost....

Michale

Thank you for your concession that you have no logical or rational response and must therefore resort to childish personal attacks and immature name-calling..

Your concession of my superior argument is appreciated, albeit irrelevant...

Michale

As usual, you justify the unjustifiable...

How liberal of you...

Well, except for her victory speech last night?

The mayor is fretting the fading of the intense national attention the city received in February and March will hurt Flint’s chances of capturing those federal funds Clinton boasted of delivering but that still haven’t arrived.

Yea.. Like you, Hillary talks a lot...

But it's always the same old bullshit...

Michale

Well, except for her victory speech last night?

Now normally it would be an ad hominem, I agree, but with the complete lack of reading comprehension you are showing (or possibly just being childishly obstinate), I'm afraid it's not a "childish personal attack" but quite descriptive.

Of course it should read "the imbecile", eh? Heh...

Ah google, a double edged sword.

You are confused. It's your "science" that is politically biased..

This has been proven beyond any doubt...

Well, something has been proven beyond a doubt, but that's not it...

YOU posted it..

I did. The entire paragraph from your link. There it is in the comments [245]. Which you would have known had you read the link you posted.

If you would have thought it was relevant, you would have posted the entire paragraph..

Apparently, even YOU didn't think it was relevant..

I really wanted my use of "imbecile" to be an ad hominem, I really did, but when you post something like this...if you want to twist someone's words, probably ought to read them first...

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/opinion/columnists/nolan-finley/2016/04/19/clinton-gone-flint-forgotten/83266508/

Isn't it funny how everyone from Weigantians on up to Hillary Clinton wanted to talk about Flint, MI..

It was Flint, Flint, Flint, Flint.. Day in, day out, Flint this and Flint that...

Right up until the Michigan Primary.....

After that???

{{chhhiiiirrrrrrppppp}} {{{chirrrrrrrrpppp}}}

Flint MI disappears from the news cycle....

Hillary's not talking about FLINT... Weigantians are not talking about FLINT.....

It's uncanny... It's AMAZING...

Or is it just run o the mill, same ol same ol politics as usual.... :^/

Yea.....

Michale

When one is close-minded and refuses to accept ANYTHING but their own ideologically induced view of "facts" and "reality" as ya'all have conceded that you are....

What's the point of discussing it??

Michale

YOU posted it..

"DOOOYYYYYYYY"
Vanillope Von Schweetz, WRECK IT RALPH

:D heh

If you would have thought it was relevant, you would have posted the entire paragraph..

Apparently, even YOU didn't think it was relevant..

Michale

Still resorting to childish personal attacks when backed into a logical corner.... eh? :D

Is that the "science" from extremely biased political groups or the science that proves the opposing point of view. Heh...

You are confused. It's your "science" that is politically biased..

This has been proven beyond any doubt...

Michale

But it is not completely determinative; there are certainly other environmental factors involved."

Which if you bothered to read the entire paragraph, you would know "environmental factors" means hormonal and other conditions of the growing fetus in the womb.

Thank you for proving my point.. :D

What, your inability to comprehend written English?

Until ya'all can address ALL the science and not just the science that supports the ideological agenda, it will ALWAYS be a political issue...

Is that the "science" from extremely biased political groups or the science that proves the opposing point of view. Heh...

I know, I know.. Ya'all can't concede that... Which simply proves my point...

Until ya'all can address ALL the science and not just the science that supports the ideological agenda, it will ALWAYS be a political issue...

Michale

But it was really nice of you to post the relevant section of that "science"... :D

Michale

But it is not completely determinative; there are certainly other environmental factors involved."

Thank you for proving my point.. :D

Michale

I think you should just back way from arguing science issues. Your "proof" is not just bad but painful...

[241]: I find it interesting that you link only to the file but not it's source. Hiding something? Lets see:

CWA. I wonder who that is. Communications Workers of America? No, wrong logo. California Waterfowl Association, probably not. Ah here we are: Concerned Women for America, yup logo matches up. Now who are they: a conservative Christian women's activist group who opposes abortion, sex education, same-sex marriage, embryonic stem cell research, pornography, and feminism. Now who is this author: ah, the draftsman of the federal Defense of Marriage Act. This is not just biased but by far the single most biased thing you have ever posted. And that is saying something. It's also 16 years old and from a non-science organization by a non-scientist. The research nypoet22 mentioned is much more recent.

Now on to [242]. You just confirmed what nypoet22 has bee arguing. Good job. [slow clap]...

From the article:

While genes do contribute to sexual orientation, other multiple factors play a greater role, perhaps including the levels of hormones a baby is exposed to in the womb. "Sexual orientation has nothing to do with choice," said Bailey. "We found evidence for two sets [of genes] that affect whether a man is gay or straight. But it is not completely determinative; there are certainly other environmental factors involved."

In other words, they found strong correlation between certain genes and homosexuality but it is not an on off switch (it usually isn't in biology). They then theorize hormones and other factors in the womb play a part, but that research is not within the constraints of this specific paper. Look for more research on these details in future papers...

Note the terminology..

This is standard science terminology. Much like law, the first few college science courses are mainly to teach you the language of science. Terms have specific meanings that again like law sound much more inflammatory when taken out of context...

Now THIS has no pertinence to anything..

It's just a helluva good read..

Michale

The book contends that Shepard’s murder was more likely a crime sparked by a drug deal gone wrong: Shepard was a known meth dealer and was supposed to have taken in a drug shipment worth $10,000 that night. He and McKinney, a 22-year-old bisexual hustler, were both meth users and had sex with each other on previous occasions, and McKinney was desperate to get the drugs or the money, or both.

In short, Shepard’s homosexuality likely played little, if any, role in the crime.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/sep/23/author-shepard-murder-case-became-hate-crime-not-d/?page=all

It wasn't a hate crime. That much is clear...

in either case, you have yet to establish any pertinence to the present discourse.

The pertinence is how ya'all and the Left Wingery in general are so hysterically quick to judge, solely and completely based on ya'all's political ideology...

In other words, the willingness to brand Trump a racist with absolutely NO FACTS to prove it....

.... is the same willingness to brand Matthew Shephard a gay hero/martyr when he was nothing more than a scumbag drug dealer.....

..... is the same willingness to ignore ALL the science that disproves or contradicts the human caused global warming theory...

..... is the same willingness to ignore all the science that indicates being gay is a choice....

.... is the same willingness to believe that George Zimmerman was a racist that stalked a boy and killed him in cold blood....

..... is the same willingness to believe that Officer Darren Wilson was a racist who shot Michael Brown while Brown had his hands in the air.....

ALL of those instances is proof positive that ya'all leap to hysterical accusations SOLELY based on ya'all's political ideology and COMPLETELY ignoring the FACTS...

There's yer "pertinence" to the present discourse....

Michale

Note the terminology..

influenced

other environmental factors involved

This is from the article that SUPPORTS the gay activist agenda... But it's filled with qualifying terminology that is no more "scientific" than rolling the dice or throwing darts at a dart board..

You can deny it all you want, but the FACTs are clear...

There is an element of CHOICE in being gay or not being gay..

As I said at the beginning of this long debate, the ONLY point of contention is how much of it IS choice..

You think it's very little choice and have the science to back it up..

I think it's very MUCH a factor of choice and I have the science to back it up...

So, when the science cancels itself out, the only thing left to go on is personal experiences and observations..

And *MY* personal experiences and observations clearly indicate that choice is the overriding factor in those who choose to be in the gay lifestyle...

You can disagree.. Fine. I have no problem with that.. But you cannot logically and rationally question my motivations...

Well, ya'all can.. And often do.. But that says more about ya'all than it does about me.. :D

Michale

After he was roundly attacked by homosexual activists, who accused him of providing
ammunition for conservatives to challenge the gay rights/civil rights comparison based on
immutability, Byne denounced the “false dichotomy: Biology or Choice?” and stated that he was
also skeptical of environmental theories of sexual orientation. He wrote: “There is no compelling
evidence to support any singular psychosocial explanation,” and that he would never “imply that
one consciously decides one’s sexual orientation.”14 But the fact remains that Dr. Byne has
poked gaping holes in the most influential studies purporting to prove that homosexuality is
http://www.cwfa.org/images/content/bornorbred.pdf

Apparently, the VERY problems that Gobry cited as problems in science apparently ARE present in your "science".... apparently.. :D

I know, I know.. You can't concede you are wrong and I am right.. I understand...

Michale

Yea???

TRUMP IS A RACIST!!!
-Weigantians

Point proven, 'nuff said.... :D

Michale

Yes, Gobry DID apply the faults to the SCIENCES in general, giving a few examples that were not the totality of what his article applied to..

Just because the science that supports your agenda wasn't mentioned doesn't mean Gobry's article was not applicable..

The problem outlined is not specific sciences, but rather the political nature of ALL sciences...

Which you would concede if it didn't show your faith in (ONLY SOME) science to be misplaced...

Like everyone else, you cheery pick what supports your agenda and ignore what doesn't support your agenda..

Michale

Nope, that's not what I mean..

Let me give you a recent example.. Like from 10 mins ago..

JL made the claim that "NOBODY" at Trump Rallies is violent EXCEPT Trump supporters.

I have *PROVEN* that to be unequivocally and absolutely FASLE..

But, no one chooses to address that and concede the point...

Ya'all just write it off as a "fallacy" or "ridiculous" or "not serious"...

You see the point??

Ya'all resort to personal ad hominem attacks because you refuse to address the FACTS...

Michale

If by "around here" you mean your comments, then you are absolutely ... what is your phrase? ... oh, yeah - "Dead On Ballz Accurate!"

Indeed.

No, simple truth fallacy. Look it up.

As to my grasp of science, it's not magical, I do what is known as "reading." The faulty science in the article you posted was based not on "all" science but on specific faults, which I read about, none of which has ever been levelled at the mri or twin studies or any of the other specific studies that have established types of human attraction as biologically based. Gobry never claimed that the faults he found applied to all science, just certain studies, of which he gave examples.

In order to make a valid claim, the factual basis of the claim must be somewhere within the broad side of a barn of being accurate. Your habit seems to be throwing around assertions and skipping the step of questioning whether or not the assertions have some chance of being inaccurate.
JL

Bernie’s Vicious Vanguard Instigates Violence Against Trump
investors.com/politics/editorials/bernies-vicious-vanguard-instigates-violence-against-trump/

Trump supporters, protesters clash after Chicago rally postponed
cnn.com/2016/03/11/politics/donald-trump-chicago-protests/

The FACTS clearly show that the Left Wingery is just as violent as ya'all accuse Trump supporters of being...

As I said, not that it will make a BIT of difference...

Ya'all's minds are made up and no amount of FACTS, no amount of REALITY, will change your minds...

Trump is Hitler, Stalin and Lucifer all rolled into one and the totality of the Left Wingery is as pure as the driven snow...

Michale

Well, except the guy who jumped the security line, tried to attack Trump and had to be body slammed by Secret Service..

You see how easy it is for me to refute your claims with FACTS?? :D

Michale

That is factually and demonstrably false..

And I would PROVE it if knew there was a snowball's chance in hell you concede that... :D

trump encouraged real violence that really occurred, and justified it by claiming imaginary violence on the part of the victims - video evidence bears these facts out.

Yea??? Show me...

The ONLY encouragement of violence from Trump you have mentioned was when Trump advocated someone to knock someone down if said someone was about to commit assault..

As I have pointed out (and there has been no contention) that is not encouragement to violence, that is encouragement to self-defense...

If that is all you have then you have nothing...

Michale

Dood.. I listed like a half dozen things!! :D

The EXCEPTION is when the Left Wingery ISN'T hypocritical! :D

Michale

Let me put it this way...

Lets say that I post 100 comments of various assertions... Not too far-fetched, eh??

And on each and every comment, everyone here responds how wrong I am...

But then, on the 101st comment, I make an assertion and no one responds at all..

Since everyone responds to EVERY comment when I am wrong, a logical inference can be made that, when no one responds, it means I am right...

"Simple logic"
-Admiral James T Kirk

But logic is something that is in very VERY short supply around here...

Michale

Ahhhh So, what you are saying is that I am only ridiculous when I am wrong..

But, since you never EVER concede when I am right.....

Well, you can do the math.. :D

Michale

The facts clearly show that it was a drug deal gone bad...

This is well documented...

But, of course, the facts mean very little in cases such as this..

- Two separate reports of overt anti-black racist statements have been made against trump by individuals who were in his presence when he made them.

Hearsay.. Not admissible..

At least, they wouldn't be admissible if we were talking about a person with a '-D' after their name..

his other bigoted statements are on video record, and your extended use of the tu quoque fallacy does not make trump's words any less anti-mexican, anti-muslim, racist or sexist.

We have already established that Trump is bigoted. But no more than Hillary or Sanders or you...

193/198 - anecdotal fallacy and moving the goalposts. you claimed there was science supporting your point of view on sexual orientation. upon the realization that you were completely out of your depth on the science, you retreated to personal anecdotes and claimed that science was wrong. of course. all science whose results disagree with you MUST be wrong.

There IS science to support the claim that being gay is not genetic...

But you won't accept it so it makes no sense for me to waste my time getting it to you..

apparently you didn't read the article you posted, or the other article it references, because not one of gobry or wilson's arguments on the fallibility of modern science is even remotely applicable to studies on the genetics and epigenetics of human sexuality.

Ahhh So it's applicable to ALL the science EXCEPT the "science" that supports your agenda.. :D

Do you even HEAR yourself??

Michale

Michale answered,
"How can I be A> "ridiculous" and 2> Dead On Ballz Accurate???Seems to me that you should examine what you label "ridiculous"...."

As you can see, I labeled your discussion style ridiculous, not your "Dead On Ballz Accurate" assertions. :)

201 - Shepherd's killers and one of their girlfriends claimed to have killed him because he was gay, perhaps thinking that saying so would make them seem less culpable. Later they recanted, and it was claimed that they had pretended to be gay, so... maybe it was a hate crime and maybe it wasn't. in either case, you have yet to establish any pertinence to the present discourse.

192 - Two separate reports of overt anti-black racist statements have been made against trump by individuals who were in his presence when he made them. his other bigoted statements are on video record, and your extended use of the tu quoque fallacy does not make trump's words any less anti-mexican, anti-muslim, racist or sexist.

nobody at a trump rally was in fact violent other than his supporters, actions which he actively encouraged. claims of aggression on the part of roughed-up protesters and reporters is the tu quoque fallacy exercised by trump himself. trump encouraged real violence that really occurred, and justified it by claiming imaginary violence on the part of the victims - video evidence bears these facts out.

161 - sorry, i can't figure out what on earth you're talking about.

132 - agree completely. in this case the hypocrisy you're appealing to actually exists. the exception that proves the rule?

193/198 - anecdotal fallacy and moving the goalposts. you claimed there was science supporting your point of view on sexual orientation. upon the realization that you were completely out of your depth on the science, you retreated to personal anecdotes and claimed that science was wrong. of course. all science whose results disagree with you MUST be wrong.

apparently you didn't read the article you posted, or the other article it references, because not one of gobry or wilson's arguments on the fallibility of modern science is even remotely applicable to studies on the genetics and epigenetics of human sexuality.

further, the anecdotes you referenced were cherry-picked to reference bisexual individuals, conveniently the only part of the LGBT spectrum which by definition does permit a choice in the gender of the mate one is seeking. sometimes your logical fallacies are piled on so thick it's difficult to make out which of them is dominant at any given time.

JL

"To the journey..."
-Harry Kim, STAR TREK:VOYAGER, Endgame

:D

Not going to comment on #217

How can I be A> "ridiculous" and 2> Dead On Ballz Accurate???

Seems to me that you should examine what you label "ridiculous"....

And why... :D

Michale

Oh, it's not at all about you PERSONALLY. You're likable enough. Or, is that ... your likable enough. Heh. Sorry, couldn't possibly resist.

It's about how you operate, Michale, that leaves me wondering about what it is you are hoping to accomplish here.

Damn you autocowrecks!!!!

hehehehehehe Now THAT's funny... :D

Michale