Hillary is toast... It's THAT simple...

Michale

Hillary is toast... It's THAT simple...

Michale

An old word that I just made up... :D

Michale

It's only a lie if it's not factual and I know it's not factual.....

Since you completely ignore the Democrat Party's contribution to the Flint water fiasco, the factuality of my claim is not in dispute..

Michale

You are hopelessly delusional if you think my comments said anything close to-
"we are in complete agreement about Obama".

And, no, falsely assuming you have any idea about what I do like about Obama just makes you an ass.

But, I suspect you know both of those things dang well and are just too dishonest (like Hillary and Trump) to admit it.

The facts clearly show that Democrats are up to their asses in it as well..

That's all I am saying...

Michale

I am not talking about truth..

I am talking about FACTS...

And yes, you have stuck to the facts.. But ONLY the facts that support your ideology..

As I have posted, there are a PLETHORA of facts that ALSO show that Democrats had a HUGE hand in the Flint water mess up to, AND INCLUDING, Obama's EPA..

Obama's EPA knew back in April of 2015, that the Flint water was dangerous...

It was a Democrat who lied to officials about having top of the line corrosion protection...

Yes, you stuck to the facts..

But like with every other Democrat agenda (Global Warming, etc etc) you only acknowledge the facts that support the agenda...

Michale

So, any research is futile because you are not interested in the actual facts of the incident..

That is a malicious accusation, Michale. You must be extremely desperate to LIE like that. I

I have stuck rigidly to the truth, to verifiable facts, in everything I said. You refuse to accept reality, to accept honest-to-God facts because you refuse to accept the truth.

Sinking to the despicable depths of slandering me is really low even for you.

I am also constrained to point out that Detroit played a BIG part in Flint water issue..

NO ONE can blame the Republicans for ANY part or parcel of the hellhole that is Detroit..

Exactly how is Detroit responsible and what documentation are referring to?

Regardless of the WHY, we are in complete agreement about Obama..

And that just chaps yer arse, don't it?? :D

and there are things I do like about Obama.

Of course... The '-D' after his name... :D

Michale

Way to wimp out by generalizing and avoiding the content.

But yes and no.

The things I don't like about Obama are very different than you, and there are things I do like about Obama.

What I don't like is that he's too much like YOU.

i agree with you that no poll is free from bias, which is frequently reflected in a poll's results. however, some poll questions are more valid (they measure what they claim to measure better) than others. asserting complete subjectivity on the part of the person who writes the poll or the person who interprets the poll is denying this basic reality.

JL

Polls, by virtue of the spin of the questions, usually indicate more of the bias of the poll takers than of the poll'ees...

Michale

Most questions that question one's political ideology usually are.. [the dumbest poll question ever]

so are most questions that actually are poorly constructed.

i'm not criticizing the veracity of other polls which in fact reflected even more negative views toward the country's direction. the data suggest that almost 80% of the country think the USA is headed the wrong way. the president as leader must accept responsibility for that perception, regardless of party.

however, the data also suggest that this perception is at odds with the reality of people's lives. people now rate their quality of life higher than they did four or eight years ago. the president must get credit for that perception, regardless of party.

my personal ideology is irrelevant to my rating of a poll question's validity. i'd cede the point if i thought it were a better question, as in fact i DID cede the point when i thought it WAS a better question.

JL

NRMC Balboa, San Diego (my hometown) reports an active shooter..

I have to hand it to the Navy.. Their advice to anyone in the vicinity??

RUN, HIDE or FIGHT!

Ooooaaaaaaaaaa

Michale

We both don't like Obama... :D

Got it...

Michale

re-63

As usual, you completely missed the point.

I was celebrating.

Obama attacking Bernie just put his right wing, neoliberal, corporatist economic views on display for all to see.
And, he made it clear that when he was running on the EXACT SAME platform, he was lying to Dem voters.

Just like Hillary, when it comes to what the Left wants, he is a No You Can't Wall Street coddler.

That's why all your whining about the "Left Wingery" is utter and complete nonsense.

There's nothing leftist about the right wing Heritage Foundation written ACA.
There's nothing leftist about Obama's neolibcon foreign policy.
There's nothing leftist about the kid glove, weak regulation of Wall Street where none of the banksters who committed massive fraud went to jail, and the Too Big To Fail banks all got BIGGER.

Even your "debate" with Mopshell is a farce because Wall Street coddling Democrats have weakened the EPA at the request of their Big Money donors... in collaboration with Repubs...

... not to mention attacking unions, underfunding pensions and infrastructure, and allowing corporate raiders to destroy Detroit, and if you look at what Rahm is doing, Chicago too.

There is a left/right divide in this country, but the Big Lie is that the Democratic Party actually represents the Left, because they don't.
Right wing corporatists dominate the Republican Party, and are the majority in the Democratic party.

And Obama just made it crystal clear.

Exposing that truth is a victory for the Left, and loss for all the reality deniers like you.

Michale

And, as has been WELL DOCUMENTED, Detroit is a DEMOCRAT frak up of the highest order..

NO ONE can blame the Republicans for ANY part or parcel of the hellhole that is Detroit..

Michale

You see, Mopshell???

The facts come out and they are considerably different than the story of a REPUBLICAN FRAK UP all up and down the line...

Democrats all up and down the line played a part in this tragedy...

Funny how you didn't mention ANY of that in your initial comments...

Michale

But let me ask you a sincere and honest question...

If Manager Darnell Earley knew for an absolutely fact that his cost-cutting plan would put people's lives at risk.. If he knew it for an ABSOLUTE FACT...

Do you honestly believe he would have gone thru with the plan???

I bet I know your answer, but I just want to hear you say it..

Michale

So.....

Still want to talk about the Flint Michigan water issue???

I got tons more links that put Obama's EPA right in the cross-hairs...

Michale

Remind me again how it's the REPUBLICANS who are completely at fault??

I seem to have forgotten what with the facts to the contrary...

Michale

And do you know what I discovered??

Obama's EPA has as much culpability in the Flint water crisis as the Republicans in Michigan...

Funny how no one here mentioned that...

But it does prove my point perfectly..

For EVERY complaint ya'all have, it's the Republicans who are at fault.. Republicans are liars... Republicans are terrorists... Republicans are criminals..

Democrats are as pure as the driven snow..

Michale

I don't know enough about it to form an opinion on the actual incident..

I am sure if I DID research the incident, I would know the OTHER side of the story which, in all likelyhood would be quite different from YOUR side..

But what would that change?? If I came up with facts that were markedly different from what you claim, would it change your mind??

If I uncovered bona fide and unequivocal PROOF that you were absolutely and 1000% wrong in your assertions, would you calmly respond, "I apologize Michale.. You were right and I was wrong."??

Of course you wouldn't... So, any research is futile because you are not interested in the actual facts of the incident..

You simply want to use the incident as a blunt-force weapon to be the Republican Party over the head with..

ROFLMAO! That's so typical of your answer to everything you can't handle with a reasoned, fact-based argument - everyone else must be wrong because "they hate Republicans!"

You don't HAVE a reasoned, fact-based argument.. All you have is political bigotry..

And no amount of facts that dispute your claims will change your mind..

So, this begs the question..

Why should I even bother trying??

Michale

We abandon ship when we see rats making a run for it, but these rats are lounging by the heated pool and playing shuffleboard on the Lido deck. When Leo heads for a lifeboat (admittedly his track record isn’t great on that score), the masses might follow.

http://nypost.com/2016/01/24/why-leo-dicaprio-is-just-another-climate-hypocrite/

Exactly.... :D

Global Warming is nothing to worry about... That's what the Hysterical Left Wingery tells us...

By their ACTIONS.....

Michale

It's not a difficult issue..

It's as simple an issue as is possible to be.

Apparently it's far too difficult for you to deal with since you avoid answering any questions about it. If it's so simple, then why do you not answer questions like: what, in your opinion, should happen to those responsible for poisoning Flint's water?

You hate Republicans...

ROFLMAO! That's so typical of your answer to everything you can't handle with a reasoned, fact-based argument - everyone else must be wrong because "they hate Republicans!" Oh that takes the cake for simplistic non-answers and sweeping generalizations! As it happens, I'm particularly enamoured of the Florida Republicans in the state Senate. There are two in particular whom I wouldn't hesitate to vote for if I was in their electorate.

As for yourself, you've made no secret of the fact that you so loathe some Democrats that you readily believe every crackpot nonsense written about them. However, I doubt you hate all Democrats. Human beings are generally more complex than that.

I simply castigate it when it occurs from BOTH Partys...

Oh I doubt you'd ever castigate cost-cutting, Michale, since it's a Republican policy you've supported on many occasions. I'm glad you think you don't prioritize profits over people but I find it disturbing that you don't call out Republicans for doing it.

As for the EPA's cost-cutting, that was thrust upon them by the Republican majority in the US House. Just to remind you, it is the House which is responsible for appropriations; the Republicans have held the majority in the House since 2011 and it was 2011 when the cost-cutting began for the EPA as recommended by the House Republican Appropriations Committee. The House Republicans have continued to further cut the agency's funding every year since. You can check out the figures for yourself if you don't believe me.

So it is, once again, the Republicans who underfunded the agency their party created. It is they who starved their beast and put them in a vulnerable position and it is both parties who are to blame for not making the mining company culpable and accountable for its own mess.

Prove me wrong.. Point to your plethora of posts castigating the Democrat Party because of what the EPA did..

How about you point to the plethora of comments blaming the Republican Party because of what the EPA did. It happened under their watch. In setting up the EPA, President Nixon was very specific that the agency answered to Congress, not the President so it was under the Republicans' majorities in Congress that the King gold mine disaster happened.

That being said, I have never seen any article or comment which blamed either party for the disaster, nor did anyone point fingers at Congress so the question is moot. Neither party was blamed.

It's a Democrat organization when a Democrat is POTUS... It's a Republican organization when it's a Republican POTUS...

But that isn't what you said, Michale. To quote you exactly:

Michale [47]

...the EPA because it's a Democrat organization...

You did not specify that you considered the political ownership of the agency to change with the POTUS. In any case, as I've pointed out to you, the EPA answers to Congress not the President. Because I know this, I did not guess that you didn't know it.

Michale [60]

Remind me again how the Left is so much better than the Right is accused of being??

Because Democrats haven't knowingly poisoned tens of thousands of Americans and thrown American troops into a war based on falsified reports.

The world will end on February 14th 2016...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYndBvhz8hU

"Valentine's Day. Bummer.."
-Peter Venkmen, GHOSTBUSTERS II

:D

Michale

Wow....

Who pee'ed in YOUR Cheerios this morning??? :D

Michale

But hay... I'll be yer huckleberry.. :D

If Trump brings new voters into the arena, voters that actually VOTE, then that's a good thing, right??

Even if those voters vote Republican...

Right??? :D

Michale

I've got some headline suggestions for your next piece-

OBAMA JUMPS ON HILLARY'S "INSPIRATIONAL" NO WE CAN'T BANDWAGON

or

OBAMA 180- NO WE CAN'T

or

IS THAT THE SOUND OF THIN ICE BREAKING?

or

OBAMA STILL DOESN'T RECOGNIZE HIS WALL STREET CODDLING WAS A MISTAKE

or

OBAMA CHANNELS RAHM TO ENSURE FUTURE SPEAKING FEES

or

OBAMA STABS HIS BASE IN THE BACK

or

OBAMA SUBMITS BERNIE PROPOSALS TO WALL STREET FOR VETTING

or

OBAMA'S CRITICS ON THE LEFT VINDICATED

or

OBAMA PUTS THUMB ON SCALE FOR ESTABLISHMENT

or

OBAMA WAGON JOINS ESTABLISHMENT CIRCLE

or

CAN OBAMA SAVE HILLARY?

or

OBAMA ADMITS ORIGINAL CAMPAIGN PLATFORM UNVETTED

or

SHEPARD FAIREY SUMMUNED TO WHITE HOUSE TO UPDATE POSTER

Feel free to use as you see fit.

A

Mizzou Media Professor Melissa Click Charged With Siccing 'Muscle' On Reporter
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/mizzou-media-professor-melissa-click-charged-siccing-muscle-reporter-n503871

Ahhhh, the respect and tolerance of the Left Wingery.... :D

Remind me again how the Left is so much better than the Right is accused of being??

In all these FACTS, I seem to have forgotten... :D

Michale

If they vote.

Uhhh... My implication was that if the non-voters are being brought into the realm of being voters, that they ARE "voters"... IE They vote..

Apologies for the confusion.. :D

Iowa is going to be interesting. At Trump rallies in Iowa the boosters go round the audience and ask if anybody is going to caucus - the response is lukewarm, and of even more concern is the lack of people willing to be local leaders.

From all reports, Trump is bringing out the caucus goers left and right...

True, we won't know until after the caucus if they actually show up..

But, from all reports, this is going to be a banner turn-out for Iowa...

I think the Republicans are really going to freak if Cruz wins Iowa in a canter.

Mebbe.. But who really cares?? Not me.. :D

Michale

Trump might discover that he is the most popular Republican on stage, because he is great entertainment, but not the most popular in caucuses where it takes a lot of time and effort to participate.

N.H. should be a safer environment for him.

polling now has trump narrowly ahead in iowa caucuses. even if he underperforms there, it's unlikely that he'll lose by enough to seriously impair his performance in NH, SC & FL. anything is possible, and a close race would certainly be more entertaining, but it looks extremely likely that trump will be the GOP candidate by a landslide. Paleo-conservatives may wax apoplectic now, but i tend to agree with dan on the ultimate outcome, especially when the alternative is a clinton. they'll grit their teeth and fall in line.

honestly, as scary as the prospect of a president trump with his finger on the red button may be, i think we need to re-examine some of the potential benefits. for starters, he has expressed some very liberal views on income tax, weapons restrictions, affirmative action, entitlements, and a number of other issues. furthermore, there'd be a lefty backlash in congress in '18. it's not unthinkable that a president trump might impart some of the benefits of a democratic president without some of the drawbacks.

JL

If they vote.

Iowa is going to be interesting. At Trump rallies in Iowa the boosters go round the audience and ask if anybody is going to caucus - the response is lukewarm, and of even more concern is the lack of people willing to be local leaders.

Trump might discover that he is the most popular Republican on stage, because he is great entertainment, but not the most popular in caucuses where it takes a lot of time and effort to participate.

N.H. should be a safer environment for him.

I think the Republicans are really going to freak if Cruz wins Iowa in a canter.

We couldn't have put it better ourselves. Brock is, easily, our Most Disappointing Democrat Of The Week.

I have to admit....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nwRiuh1Cug

It's a pretty good ad....

And Brock is a prick for his attack on it...

Just shows ta go ya what kind of arseholes Hillary has working for her...

Michale

The Republicans are not imploding or falling apart. They're having a primary campaign. They will unite behind the nominee-to-be, as soon as one candidate secures a majority of delegates. Some groups will be tepid in their support -- quite possibly enough to make the difference in this particular election -- and some individuals will defect. But the Party will not suffer for it in the long run. Donald Trump has brought some of his formerly-nonvoting fans into the electorate as Republicans, and the conversion of non-voters into voters is what actually affects the electoral balance between the two major parties.

Well said...

VERY well said...

Kudos...

Especially this part..

Donald Trump has brought some of his formerly-nonvoting fans into the electorate as Republicans,

And bringing non-voters into the realm of being voters is a GOOD thing...

Right everybody?? :D

Michale

It's not a difficult issue..

It's as simple an issue as is possible to be..

You hate Republicans...

This sounds like you are in favor of their cost-cutting, that you approve of the emergency manager and governor prioritizing profit over people.

Not at all...

I simply castigate it when it occurs from BOTH Partys...

You only castigate it when a Republican does it..

Prove me wrong.. Point to your plethora of posts castigating the Democrat Party because of what the EPA did..

No, Michale, the EPA is a Republican organization.

It's a Democrat organization when a Democrat is POTUS... It's a Republican organization when it's a Republican POTUS...

Michale

I have to say, you're good at distracting yourself from the real issues. As soon as it gets difficult for you, you just veer down another side track.

Maybe the city of Flint ALSO had financial issues that required the cost-cutting..

Ever think of that???

This sounds like you are in favor of their cost-cutting, that you approve of the emergency manager and governor prioritizing profit over people. It's very sad, Michale, that you would think to excuse their decisions, made in full knowledge of what it would do to the people of Flint, just to save money.

But as we now know from the documentation released in the FOI, the city of Flint would have saved $800 million had they accepted a new 30 year contract with the Detroit Water Authority. The emergency manager, under the direction of the governor, turned that offer down.

That offer represented a 48% saving which is a far greater saving than the alternative they opted for. Why did they do that, Michale? Why choose an option that they knew would cost more and poison the people of Flint?

Your desperation to find a way to excuse the Republicans involved also begs the question: why choose an option which could open them up to billions in reparations? The repair bill for the damaged water pipes is already nudging $2 billion.

That's not taking into account the pressing need now for special education teachers in all their schools at all grades.

The cost of their decision - and their further decision to cover it up - far outweigh the cost of the alternative water option they chose.

Also, why did Gov Snyder insist on appointing an emergency manager when the voters of Michigan specifically voted against it?

And if you think that the Gold King mine is sufficient reason to wipe out an entire agency, then what, in your opinion, should happen to those responsible for poisoning Flint's water?

Of course I am not saying that, because of the incompetence of Obama's EPA, the agency should be closed..

How about answering this question then: what, in your opinion, should happen to those responsible for poisoning Flint's water?

I am simply pointing out that the "cost-cutting" incompetence of the Flint manager (a Republican) is absolutely and 1000% NO DIFFERENT than the cost-cutting incompetence of the EPA...

There is, of course, one glaring difference: the emergency manager and the governor who gave him this specific assignment, chose to make their so-called cost-cutting decisions; the EPA had their cost- cutting thrust upon them by the US House.

But you don't get yer "knickers in a twist" :D about the EPA because it's a Democrat organization...

No, Michale, the EPA is a Republican organization. It was created by Republican President Nixon. As long as it is fully funded, it does a great job of protecting the health of Americans. It remains a Republican legacy, a jewel in their crown, yet they chose to gradually cripple it by cutting its funding year after year. Why did they do that, Michale?

As far as I know, Bernie Sanders is still a registered Independent. He hasn't changed his Party Affiliation to DEMOCRAT..

How can he run in the Democrat Party Primary if he is not even a Democrat???

Michale

He is usually good about rescuing comments from the NNL filter, but it WAS the weekend, after all..

Michale

Thanks for the drink offer, but it's not my thing no matter how you spell it.

I'd rather have my comment show up if you want to be helpful... nothing like a three day delay to encourage debate on (formerly) current events.

A

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/capital-weather-gang/wp/2016/01/24/paltry-national-airport-snowfall-total-raises-questions-about-observing-standards/

These clowns in the weather service can't even measure SNOW right!!!

How much intelligence does it take to take a long stick, find a place in the snow that's level, stick the stick into the snow till it hits the ground and then measure...

Jeeezus H Chreest!!

Michale

http://tinyurl.com/hfrg6w4

Establishement Republicans (and incidentially, every Weigantian) concentrate on the Trump phenomena as it pertains to the person that Trump is..

By far, the most important factor in play is not the WHAT, but rather the WHY...

Until everyone understands that, there will be no stopping Trump as he goes all the way to the White House...

Michale

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2016/01/22/national-review-disses-donald-trump-why-magazines-plan-wont-work.html?intcmp=hphz06

Establishement Republicans (and incidentially, every Weigantian) concentrate on the Trump phenomena as it pertains to the person that Trump is..

By far, the most important factor in play is not the WHAT, but rather the WHY...

Until everyone understands that, there will be no stopping Trump as he goes all the way to the White House...

Michale

https://next.ft.com/content/e25f28d6-c0f8-11e5-9fdb-87b8d15baec2

No one wants to talk about a Bloomberg 3rd Party candidacy???

I can see why.. It must be very depressing for ya'all.. :D

Michale

Maybe the city of Flint ALSO had financial issues that required the cost-cutting..

Ever think of that???

And if you think that the Gold King mine is sufficient reason to wipe out an entire agency, then what, in your opinion, should happen to those responsible for poisoning Flint's water?

Of course I am not saying that, because of the incompetence of Obama's EPA, the agency should be closed..

I am simply pointing out that the "cost-cutting" incompetence of the Flint manager (a Republican) is absolutely and 1000% NO DIFFERENT than the cost-cutting incompetence of the EPA...

But you don't get yer "knickers in a twist" :D about the EPA because it's a Democrat organization...

That's all I am saying..

Michale

So, you are unequivocally and without reservation willing to give the Republican Party full and complete un-modified credit for creating the EPA...

Right? :D

Yes, of course! Absolutely 100%. That's why it's so odd that Republicans are now so desperate to tear it down.

The EPA's cutting corners and saving costs that directly lead to the disaster is also well-documented..

Of course the obvious answer to this is: fund the agency fully so they can do their job properly. But since the Republicans have deliberately starved them of funds, it's no surprise they should have to cut corners.

Republicans promised to "starve the beast". This is what happens when you underfund an agency.

And before you get your knickers in a twist again, of course the agency itself has to shoulder responsibility for the mine disaster, as indeed they have done. They probably had to fire a few people in order to scrounge up the money to try to manage the disaster as best they could because there's no way the House Republicans would have given them the funds to do that.

It should never have been the EPA's responsibility in the first place but stupid laws made it that way - and that little fact is on the heads of ALL Congress, not just one party.

And if you think that the Gold King mine is sufficient reason to wipe out an entire agency, then what, in your opinion, should happen to those responsible for poisoning Flint's water?

So, you are unequivocally and without reservation willing to give the Republican Party full and complete un-modified credit for creating the EPA...

Right? :D

I've gone to extraordinary lengths and detail to explain to you as simply as I can why it is different. You insist on choosing a ludicrous interpretation for reasons known only to yourself.

The only difference that matters is the '-D'/'-R' that is in play...

The EPA's fault and incompetence on the Gold King mine is well documented. The EPA's cutting corners and saving costs that directly lead to the disaster is also well-documented..

Michale

The Republican policy is to eliminate the EPA along with all of its regulations.

And yet, it was Republican policy that CREATED the EPA...

That's common knowledge that the EPA was created by President Nixon, a fact not forgotten by Democrats who are wondering why Republicans now want to tear it down. It was created to consolidate in one agency a variety of federal research, monitoring, standard-setting and enforcement activities to ensure environmental protection. It's a great Republican legacy yet all that will be eliminated if/when the agency is scrapped by Republicans.

To put this into context for you, it would be as if a Republican blamed the entirety of the Democrat Party for the EPA's totally bonehead screw-up at the King Gold Mine...

Although I am sure you will claim that it's different...

I've gone to extraordinary lengths and detail to explain to you as simply as I can why it is different. You insist on choosing a ludicrous interpretation for reasons known only to yourself.

2. Yes I know you were trying to use satire. It misfired since I wasn't claiming that Republicans were trying to poison all Americans. Sheesh.

By invoking "Democrats", yes.. You were claiming that Republicans are trying to poison all Americans...

No, Michale I was not claiming that. It is not remotely logical to claim that I was. At no time did I say that Republicans were poisoning all Americans - you did but you meant it satirically so it doesn't count as being something you meant. You see? I can work out what you mean from context; why can't you do the same?

There is no way any logical or reasonable person would claim that "opposition voters" is exactly the same as "all Americans". I find it inexplicable that you insist on claiming that you confused the two.

3. As for Republican policy, I was referring to those Republicans who have the power to set policy and formulate legislation.

Yet, you didn't make ANY distinction between THOSE Republicans and all the other Republicans... To give you an example, it would be as if a racist were to claim "BLACK PEOPLE ARE CRIMINALS!!!" and then, when called on the obviously bigoted statement, he/she responds with, "I was only referring to those black people who break the law...

I shouldn't have to spell out every little thing for you Michale when it's obvious that the qualifying statement "They certainly demonstrated that in what they did to the people of Flint" could only refer to those Republicans who were the decision-makers. Any other interpretation would be ludicrous. But the ludicrous interpretation is the one you chose. Now why is that, Michale? No-one can possibly be so thick as to not understand the context of what I was saying - and you're not thick so what is it with you that you choose to take it out of context when it was obvious what I meant?

Nevertheless I went to all the effort to make it as clear as possible but no, again you insist on your misinterpretation. I really do wonder what your motives could possibly be.

16. Rahm Emanuel is a weasel and should be drummed out of office BUT just as you are not in any way responsible for Flint, nor am I nor most Democrats responsible for what the POS Rahm did.

Nor are the vast majority of Republicans responsible for what occurred in Flint, MI..

At no time was I claiming anything so utterly illogical and idiotic. I cannot understand your motive in inferring that I am that stupid. Frankly, it's insulting.

The emergency manager was not alone in the decision-making nor the cover-up that followed. Most of that was in the governor's lap. It was Gov Snyder who told the people of Flint that their water was safe. He deliberately lied to them. He is also responsible.

But nothing will happen to either of them. The Michigan AG says he's investigating the case and he will certainly exonerate all concerned.

Same kind of hyperbole...

Although I am sure you will claim that it's different...

Michale

And yet, it was Republican policy that CREATED the EPA...

Funny how that's always forgotten amongst the hyperbole... :D

Some Republican voters are feeling that they've been had by the GOP but I have every confidence that you will not be one of them, Michale.

And yet, in the last election the vast majority of the American people felt that the GOP was the best Party to be in power and handed the Democrat Party a nuclear shellacking...

Again, something that's always forgotten amongst the hyperbole...

Michale

By invoking "Democrats", yes.. You were claiming that Republicans are trying to poison all Americans...

3. As for Republican policy, I was referring to those Republicans who have the power to set policy and formulate legislation.

Yet, you didn't make ANY distinction between THOSE Republicans and all the other Republicans... To give you an example, it would be as if a racist were to claim "BLACK PEOPLE ARE CRIMINALS!!!" and then, when called on the obviously bigoted statement, he/she responds with, "I was only referring to those black people who break the law...

16. Rahm Emanuel is a weasel and should be drummed out of office BUT just as you are not in any way responsible for Flint, nor am I nor most Democrats responsible for what the POS Rahm did.

Nor are the vast majority of Republicans responsible for what occurred in Flint, MI..

THAT's the point I was trying to make..

OK, so we agree..

This manager is the one responsible..

NOT the entirety of the Republican Party...

And you finish off with an insult. How thoughtful of you.

You are right. That was uncalled for. My sincerest apologies...

Michale

Eliminate RIDICULOUS regulations.. Like having the EPA regulate mud puddles...

The Republican policy is to eliminate the EPA along with all of its regulations. That has been Republican policy for a number of years now so I'm surprised you don't seem to know about it. Ted Cruz even mentioned it in one of the debates.

You might want to interpret it as "ridiculous" regulations but the fact is it is all EPA regulations along with the EPA itself. The Republicans have been gradually reducing the funding to the EPA (and other agencies like the IRS) and restricting their activity so that they are incapable of doing the job now anyway which was the goal all along of course.

Heavy industry in particular is anxious to get rid of the EPA so that can operate their waste elimination processes by dumping it in the nearest water course. That would save them a lot of money rather than having to treat the waste and dispose of it safely.

Of course the Republicans can't come right out and say this to their voters so their propaganda machine spins it so you hear "ridiculous regulations" even though they are up front about getting rid of the EPA.

Some Republican voters are feeling that they've been had by the GOP but I have every confidence that you will not be one of them, Michale.

The Emergency Manager didn't care who his decision harmed as long as he saved a few bucks which amounted to $100 a day for three months for non-corrosive additives.

But that's not what you said..

That's because I tried rephrasing it so you could understand. Instead it seems to have just confused you more. So I'll try again for the third time.

Let's try step-by step again and see if that works for you:

1. The emergency manager was told that the Flint River water was highly corrosive.

2. He was told that, if not treated, the Flint River water would corrode the pipes which meant lead would be released into the water.

3. He was told that the water needed to be treated with anti-corrosive agents to prevent this happening.

4. He was also told that the treatment would cost about $100 per day for three months.

5. Armed with all this information, the emergency manager chose not to treat the water, thereby allowing the water to become contaminated with lead.

6. That he made this decision in full knowledge of the effects of not treating the water means he allowed Flint residents to be poisoned by lead. That is what I meant by "by design".

7. His motivation was primarily to save money. He didn't care that people would be poisoned. He knew they would be but he didn't care, he was indifferent to them.

8. When it became obvious that the water was responsible for a number of severe reactions and illnesses, the emergency manager and the governor both chose to do nothing about it.

9. They lied to the Flint people and told them the water was safe. They knew it wasn't.

10. At that point, they were knowingly facilitating the continued poisoning of Flint residents. "By design" wasn't the best phrase to use but it wasn't exactly inaccurate either. Their goals had became (i) save money, (ii) allow the continued poisoning of Flint residents in order to (iii) save themselves by not admitting culpability.

Their goal, therefore, was to allow the poisoning of people in order to save themselves.

In other words, if anyone has died, then you want the manager charged with Capital Murder..

You can relax, Mr Drama Queen. The governor is busy pushing legislation through to exempt himself and the emergency manager being prosecuted or held accountable in any way. They will all get off scot free. The image of America overseas is that it is not a country that places much importance on justice.

That about sum up your hysteria??

And you finish off with an insult. How thoughtful of you.

Wow Michale, you're really jumping the shark this time. Try to come back to earth for a moment. And since you have such difficulty understanding my statements, I'll lay it out step by step for you:

1. I disagree with your statement that Republicans want to poison all Americans.

2. Yes I know you were trying to use satire. It misfired since I wasn't claiming that Republicans were trying to poison all Americans. Sheesh.

3. As for Republican policy, I was referring to those Republicans who have the power to set policy and formulate legislation.

4. These Republicans are first and foremost the wealthiest donors who set and control policy via such instruments as the Heritage Foundation and ALEC (which writes the majority of bills for Republican state legislatures).

5. It also includes the leaders among elected Republicans who are charged with carrying out these policies and passing the legislation they are given.

6. To make it perfectly clear for you, I'll refer to this group as the elected Republican leaders and wealthiest Republican donors. This obviously does not include all other donors and voters.

7. In the case of Flint, the responsible Republicans referred to are the governor, the Emergency Manager and all other parties with an official capacity in the decision-making that directly involved the contamination (and subsequent cover-up attempts) of Flint's drinking water. (I believe there are seven defendants named in the class action lawsuit.)

8. The elected Republican leaders and wealthiest Republican donors group set the GOP agenda which is focussed primarily on further enriching the wealthiest of the wealthy.

9. To achieve this, they know they need a work force in America but also know that these people will be easier to manage if they are limited in their resources.

10. Therefore the elected Republican leaders and wealthiest Republican donors group are against raising wages, paid sick leave, paid holiday leave and any other kind of paid leave. They also want to eliminate the minimum wage so they can pay as little as possible.

11. They therefore have an interest in thinning the herd. Obviously the first to go are those who do not support them and top of that list is all Democratic voters.

12. Therefore, when saving money puts the health of largely Democratic voters at risk, the decision-makers just consult Republican policy...

13. Obviously in the GOP platform, money is more important than people, especially if the majority of those people are likely to be Democratic voters.

14. The decision is therefore just as obvious: save money not people.

15. This quote:
Because this was a Republican decision, made only by Republicans, based on long-standing and well-known Republican policy; ie to eliminate regulations.
references the decision-makers who are responsible for:
*switching the water of Flint from Lake Huron to the Flint River,
*choosing not to add anti-corrosive additives to the Flint River water in order to save money,
*ignoring the initial complaints from Flint residents and medical staff,
*lying about the safety of the water and issuing useless advisories
*covering up their culpability when they were exposed
*failing to respond adequately to the disaster,
*delaying the call to declare Flint a disaster zone.

16. Rahm Emanuel is a weasel and should be drummed out of office BUT just as you are not in any way responsible for Flint, nor am I nor most Democrats responsible for what the POS Rahm did.

You have an extraordinary knack for misconstruing most of what is said. It isn't your fault but everything has to be super simplified and detailed for you or you rush off into fantasyland. It will be interesting to see how you manage to misconstrue most of this as well.

Right??? :D

Michale

But that's not what you said..

You said that he did it "BY DESIGN"....

Meaning his GOAL was to poison people...

In other words, if anyone has died, then you want the manager charged with Capital Murder..

That about sum up your hysteria?? :D

Michale

Then, naturally, ALL Democrats (including you) are to blame for what Rahm is doing in Chicago and what Democrats did to Detroit..

See where the Bigotry Roads leads??

:D

Because this was a Republican decision, made only by Republicans, based on long-standing and well-known Republican policy; ie to eliminate regulations.

Eliminate RIDICULOUS regulations.. Like having the EPA regulate mud puddles...

Michale..

Yea... Republicans want to poison all Americans.

You said it; I didn't. And I disagree with you. Republicans don't want to poison all Americans. They know there has to be some people around to man the workforce to make money for their plutocrats. But beyond those who are useful to them, they couldn't give a damn. They certainly demonstrated that in what they did to the people of Flint.

So, the Manager wanted to hurt people or wanted to save a few bucks...

Which is it??

The Emergency Manager didn't care who his decision harmed as long as he saved a few bucks which amounted to $100 a day for three months for non-corrosive additives. So the answer is yes to both. He was told what would happen and he chose to save money rather than prevent lead contamination.

And why is it ALL Republicans' fault??

Because this was a Republican decision, made only by Republicans, based on long-standing and well-known Republican policy; ie to eliminate regulations.

It doesn't look good for the Democrat Party...

Michale

I can only give you one link because more than one will send this comment to the spam filter. This link is to the Flint Water Study: http://flintwaterstudy.org/information-for-flint-residents/results-for-citizen-testing-for-lead-300-kits/
Earlier tests show up to 1250ppb (parts per billion). The CDC sets the upper limit at 15ppb.

This should transcend party lines, really, because it is so outrageous an abuse of government power.

It's called Asset Forfeiture..

While not created under the Obama Administration, it's reached new heights under The Messiah's watch...

Forfeiture dollars have skyrocketed under Obama. Funny how we don't see anyone from the Left Wingery (Grand Poobah excepted, of course) say BOO about it...

Funny, iddn't it?? :^/

Michale

And don't forget Canadian!! :D

Michale

Whiskey is some sort of strange Irish or American concoction ;)

I stand corrected.. :D

Michale

Yea... Republicans want to poison all Americans. :^/

Do you hear yourself??

You think that's harsh? The state government and Emergency Manager of Flint took decisions designed to hurt people in order to save a few bucks.

So, the Manager wanted to hurt people or wanted to save a few bucks...

Which is it??

And why is it ALL Republicans' fault??

Put another way... If the Manager was a black person, would ALL black people be to blame???

Michale

I'm genuinely confused - the level measurements for lead in water the CDC work in are µg/dL but you are quoting ppb.

Can you point me to your numbers?

You think that's harsh? The state government and Emergency Manager of Flint took decisions designed to hurt people in order to save a few bucks. They were told right back in April 2014 that when they switched to river water, they would have to add anti-corrosives to avoid lead contamination. They refused because the cost would have been $100 per day for 3 months.

So they knew back in April 2014 that they were risking the health of the people of Flint, especially those who lived in older and poorer areas. They did not care. That is NOT "well intentioned stupidity or ignorance".

Ten people are dead because of the levels of Legionnaires Disease in the water. The number of pets which have died from poisoning has not been counted. Every child exposed to lead levels over 100x the highest "safe" level of 15ppb (up to 1250ppb are still being reported, even after the water source has been returned to lake Huron) will suffer permanent brain and nerve damage. It is irreversible.

The governor's office and Emergency Manager were warned of this at the outset. They kept telling the people of Flint that the water was okay. In the summer of 2014, the state government issued three "Boil water" advisories - boiling water does not get rid of lead.

They lied and said they had tested the water and it was safe to drink. All this has been documented.

Snyder is now trying to pass laws in the state legislature to exempt himself and all others involved from prosecution.

And you think my attitude is "a bit harsh". In a few years, the death toll from 22 months of continuous poisoning will be greater than 9/11 but you are going to write it off as "well intentioned". Excuse me if I don't share your view.

A bit harsh, IMO.

Please don't interpret the following in any way as an excuse - I want the people who made this decision hounded if there was any culpability (well intentioned stupidity or ignorance doesn't count).

I was wondering about the lead levels. When I grew up leaded gas was legal, and the lead levels in kids was about the levels in Flint today, I believe:

http://www.environment.ucla.edu/reportcard/article3772.html

At least Democrats aren't trying to eliminate every regulation om the books (including the EPA itself) so they can poison off as many opposition voters as possible. Snyder must be congratulating himself on his huge success in Flint. He not only poisoned the current voters but ensured all the children there will be too brain-damaged to vote when/if they grow up.

Whisky is the water of life

Whiskey is some sort of strange Irish or American concoction ;)

The dingo (filter) ate my baby.

Thanks
A

I didn't see a mention of the "openly racist" responses the National Review announced they received from "defenders" of the Trumpon.

The revolting "conservatives" being surprised by the racism is more surprising than the racism. Have they been huddling under a cone of silence or something?

The National Review's preference for subtle racism sure makes their dismay over "openly racist" responses an interesting notion.

Of course, the reason the Trumpon is making such racism seem acceptable to his supporters is a complete mystery that they couldn't be bothered to delve into... because willful ignorance is preferable to admitting the truth in "conservative" circles.

A

hehehehehe

Not a big fan of Bernie.... But THAT's funny. :D

Michale

mmmmmm whiskey..... :D

Michale

It's now 35 degrees....

Where's Global Warming when ya need it!!!???

Michale

I'm hosting a Burn's Supper on Monday night and my friend found a 10-year Glenmorangie in Costco for $60 for 1.75L - an incredible price for a pretty good Whisky (I tried it with him to make sure it was OK. We weren't sure the first time, so we tried it again and again until we decided it was excellent ;).

We got our haggii from New Jersey (real haggis has been illiegal in the U.S. since 1971). They ship anywhere is frozen wrapping. I'll tell you Tuesday if they are any good.

http://www.scottishgourmetusa.com

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/24/nyregion/bloomberg-sensing-an-opening-revisits-a-potential-white-house-run.html?_r=0

A Bloomberg run would destroy the Democrat candidate and guarantee a GOP victory...

Michale

Considering that the Democrat Party is putting all their eggs in the Hillary basket, courtesy of Debbie Wasserman-Schultz, I would say that the same could be said of the Dems... :D

Count de Monet: It is said that the people are revolting.
King Louis XVI: You said it! They stink on ice!

~mel brooks, history of the world, part 1

heh :D

Michale

~john fund, national review

~john fund, national review

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/420093/presidential-candidate-donald-trump-double-agent-for-left

Count de Monet: It is said that the people are revolting.
King Louis XVI: You said it! They stink on ice!

~mel brooks, history of the world, part 1

I did wonder though... in talking point 6: what is your definition of single-payer? I ask because I would not call Ireland's socialized medicine single-payer. It's a universal healthcare plan yes, but not single-payer as I understand it. Therefore it must be that we have different ideas about what the term "single-payer" actually describes. I certainly never heard that term used in the Ireland or the UK when I lived there.

As for Bill O'Reilly's promises, didn't he promise to leave the country if Obama won a second term or something? I can't remember what it was; I just know he didn't leave. I'm quite sure Ireland wouldn't want him anyway. I've always found the Irish to be really lovely people and I wouldn't wish Bill O'Reilly on them.

The best review of Palin's latest word salad was provided by Jim Wright of Stonekettle Station who looked at every word of her endorsement. He adopted a rigorous approach to his review by first quoting a paragraph from her speech and then commenting on it. The following are two of his comments (which is the maximum allowed under his own strict guidelines for fair use):

We’re just three paragraphs in and she’s already a selfless martyr. Beat up, chewed up, spit out, quit my job, made eight million dollars, bought a couple of mansions, fly around in a private jet, no one knows the misery I’ve seen.

Jim Wright is a retired US Navy Chief Warrant Officer and doesn't suffer fools gladly.

Somebody, anybody, show me how America is weaker than it was eight years ago. Weaker how? Economically? Militarily? Energy? Comic Books? What? [...] Be specific and show your work.

For the full column, visit stonekettle.com

Simon Malloy wasn't the only Salon writer to note
the hilarious contradictions in the National Review edition “Against Trump”. Amanda Marcotte also wrote an even more detailed article on their "everything-and-the-kitchen-sink strategy" which produced criticisms at complete variance with each other. She then delights in giving classic examples where article writers have contradicted the editors and even one instance in which a writer contradicted herself!

Marcotte then moves onto why NR took this route and the probable consequences:

It’s tough to say what the National Review expected out of this, besides selling more issues. And even that has a strong possibility of backfiring, as this attack gave Trump an opportunity to imply, with cause, that they are using his name to bolster their declining sales.

If the idea was to pry base voters off Trump, good luck with that. All this does is confirm base voter suspicions that the conservative establishment sees them as a bunch of useful idiots who are to be slapped down the second they start thinking they have a real voice in the movement.

I think she's right about Trump's fans. They're finally waking up to how they've been used and they're revolting.

"I've heard worse ideas."
-B'Elanna Torres, STAR TREK: VOYAGER

:D

Michale

When you look at it, the exact same thing can be said about the Democrat Party..

Funny how that is almost ALWAYS the case.. :D

Michale

Freudian slip?? :D

That should read "too THICK with this one"... :D

My bust...

Michale

Two Words...

Hillary PerpWalk :D

Michale

The partisanship is just TOO think with this one..

Gonna have to take a pass... :D

Michale

Sooo what else is new?