I can relate to how frustrating it can be to get people on board for such a worthy cause as yours, having been involved with Aboriginal rights in Canada as a non-Aboriginal Canadian.

As for Senator Hart, I don't know that he'll be the one to help get a movement like yours started but, he sure believes it to be an important enough issue to have devoted the vast majority of all of his writing towards drawing attention to it. So, I don't see why he wouldn't jump at the chance to at least give you some advice and encouragement.

Keep in mind that Senator Hart is a busy guy, you know, and can't always respond to participants on his site but he sure gives it the old college try!

Also, Matters of Principle is definitely NOT CW.com in that it can take days before your comment passes through moderation - mostly because the poor guy does all the moderating himself! (Wait, so does Chris!) But, Senator Hart apparently doesn't trust even his regular contributors enough to allow comments to pass through without moderation. Oh, and he's also a very formal individual, even going so far as to refer to me as Ms Miller. Ms Miller! Argh. Heh.

I view it like losing weight..

It's easier to lose weight if you see results, no matter how small, right away...

Without positive re-enforcement on a continuous and on-going basis, Joe and Jane Sixpack will just mutter to themselves, "why bother?"...

The will to make changes is simply not there...

I have made this argument here time and time again..

As long as the Left Wingery keeps rewarding bad people by putting them in office, said bad people have absolutely NO INCENTIVE to change their ways..

And the Right Wingery is the same way...

It would take a more powerful NPA Wingery to make the changes you seek...

And, as I mentioned above, if the NPA Wingery is powerful enough to make the changes, the changes wouldn't NEED to be made...

Personally, I would like to abolish Partys altogether...

The last thing this country needs is MORE division...

Michale

Wow, doesn't that sound kind of desperate and pitiful?

Join the club.

That was a little joke. :)

Seriously, I think you have a very interesting site and nascent movement. I'm wondering if you have made contact with any other similar efforts because I'm thinking that the kind of change you are talking about needs a great number of ripples to build a current strong enough to break down the mighty wall of a corporate/media/political system sustained by big money, to make reference to a favourite Robert Kennedy quote.

While your site makes a good argument about what individual citizens can do and how they can do it, it has been my experience with projects like this that there needs to be people involved who can lend a certain credibility to the cause and who can encourage more like-minded people to participate.

In that vein, I'm wondering if you've had a chance to check out former Senator Gary Hart's blog, Matters of Principle - or his books! - as he often writes about the corrupting influences on the political system and what the Republic needs to do to prevent an irreversible turn from what the Founders envisioned for America.

Here is just one example of the kinds of pieces you'll find at his blog:
http://www.mattersofprinciple.com/?p=1189

Ironic, iddn't it..

Speaking of climate ... :)

Oh don't get me started...

The Salem Witch Trials have begun...

Michale

You think Don's idea is a good one but that it can't be achieved in the current political climate. And, if the political climate improves, then Don's plan won't be needed.

Speaking of climate ... :)

I'm surprised by the non-response he has received on this site, generally speaking.

As am I....

For myself, things have been really hectic around here business and personal wise, so I haven't had the time to really digest the link that Don mentions...

But any activities such as that are doomed to failure because the professional politicians have too much invested in keeping things the way they are right now..

That problem is compounded by the point I make in comments #10 and #11...

To whit, the Left only complains about it when it benefits the Right and versie vicie...

Political Independents (such as myself) will have to become a whole lot stronger as a Party before such a thing as Don proposes is even REMOTELY possible..

The funny thing is, is that if Independents and NPAs *WERE* to become strong enough to make something like that happen, it wouldn't be NEEDED... :D

Too many people on the Right and Left have too much vested interest into keeping the status quo...

It's a nice idea... But as long as people refer to political opponents as "enemies" or "terrorists" or "traitors" it will never happen in the political partisan climate of the here and now...

Michale

Don't you have anything to say about Don's original post here?

I'm surprised by the non-response he has received on this site, generally speaking.

I did respond in this thread but the comment was lost and then I thought, as a Canadian, I should probably hold those thoughts until you and others of your fellow citizens here chimed in. But, I'm still, curiously, waiting ...

Such awesome humor deserves recognition.. :D

Michale

hehehehehehehe

Now THAT was funny!!! :D Kudos..

I also posted this Trek reference as a question for Overtime on Bill Maher and would appreciate anyone that would help me out by "liking it", however it is that you do that.

Be happy to.. :D

Do you have a direct link?? Google was less than helpful..

Michale

JL

I know you don't..

Kentucky isn't really the bellwether...

It's Virginia that really shows how much trouble the Democrat Party is in...

Michale

I don't think that Bevin proves much. Like I said a while back, I thought that he could maybe ride the current Trump wave of "outsider" idiocy right into office even if Trump can't sustain it for another year. Allison Lundergan Grimes was easily re-elected and the Governor Beshear's son was elected AG.

McConnell said that Bevin is a pathological liar and an East Coast con man, but there he was working to get Bevin elected governor. It's easy to see why Terd Cruz doesn't trust Mitch.

OK My mistake.. I thought it was TRUMP that used the Trek reference but it was the er... 'reporter' (;D)...

My bust.....

Michale

This week's elections in Kentucky and Virginia reveal the Democratic Party's peril

Kentucky and Virginia have been treading opposite political trajectories for the past 20 years, but on Election Day 2015 they came together to deliver a clear warning that the Democratic Party is in a much weaker political position than most of its supporters realize. The Kentucky result, in which a reasonably popular Democratic attorney general was bested by a Tea Party favorite last seen getting crushed by Mitch McConnell in a primary, has garnered more attention. But it's Virginia that's the more profound sign of the party's rot.
http://www.vox.com/2015/11/5/9672706/kentucky-virginia-democrats-denial

Michale

And a fairly obscure one, at that. The columnist (I can't bring myself to call her a "reporter") is actually a staunch conservative. She's one of those on the right who are horrified at the prospect of either Trump or Carson winning.

Yeah, I've seen many Trek references before, but I think this is the first Fizzbin one I've ever spotted. And used correctly, too -- it was a pretty good metaphor!

-CW

Makes me actually like Trump a little..

Because, if a man is a Trekker, he can't be ALL bad...

My only beef is that the reporter spelled it wrong..

Fizzbin...
http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Fizzbin

:D

But that's a minor nitpick..

*ANYONE* that can integrate a Trek reference into a conversation deserves a nod... :D

Michale

This is a total non-sequitur (note: I haven't even read the comments, above, to this article yet), but check out this WashPost article:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2015/11/05/trump-starts-to-attack-carson/

Halfway down, pointing out Ben Carson is all over the map on his policy ideas, is the line:

"Got all that? It gets more unintelligible from there. Sorry, but this sounds like Fizbin, as if he is making it up as he goes along."

Cue Spock: "Ri-i-i-i-ght."

Heh.

-CW

Don't get me wrong.. I believe what you are saying.. Our own David has made the case for Ohio "rigging" quite effectively..

My point is that the Left (and the Right) only make the case when it's their own Party that is at the disadvantage...

When the Left makes the same case when it's ADVANTAGE to their own Party, THEN I'll believe it's a bi-partisan issue.....

Michale

I'm sure there was some of that v&v effect, but the vote went just short of 3:1 for:against Prop 1. Most Ohio districts are rigged, and most voters don't seem happy with the quality of representation they get when there is no meaningful competition.

I'll believe it when I hear a Lefty or a Righty complain about it when THEIR Party is benefiting.. :D

Howz that??? :D

Michale

http://img.memecdn.com/awesome-prank_webm_3042619.gif

:D

Michale

Something about a pot and a kettle come to mind... :D

Michale

The "why Democrats are not likely to take the House back until 2022, when the new districts are redrawn after the 2020 Census" suggestion seems to imply a good possibility... but the "likely" will only be possible if they win the elections that allow them to control the redistricting process after the 2020 census... and they blew those campaigns in 2010.

The establishment politicians also seem almost content with the status quo.
I haven't seen Obama use his bully pulpit to draw attention to the problem, nor noticed any efforts by the DNC.

Wingnuts resorting to cheating to "win" (gerrymandering, ballot shenanigans and voter id) has been a regular theme among activists and certain pundits, but you have to wonder what's going on when the "leaders" of the party choose to remain silent.

As you pointed out, this is about the basic fairness of our elections, and would seemingly deserve their attention.

A

I'm sure there was some of that v&v effect, but the vote went just short of 3:1 for:against Prop 1. Most Ohio districts are rigged, and most voters don't seem happy with the quality of representation they get when there is no meaningful competition.

Interestingly enough, the anti-monopoly measure Two barely passed. Now, the little known Ohio Ballot Board gets to decide which monopolies are good and which are bad....which doesn't sound good to me. The Board wasn't created to do anything like this. Corruptutopia! I suspect a lot of folks will want a seat on that board.

Pot went down by a 2:1 margin, so Measure Two proved unnecessary.

To be more accurate, Red Ohioans are unhappy about it when it benefits BLUE Ohioans and versie vicie... :D

Michale

The mathematical challenge is significant (to start, see Coastline Problem). I would rephrase your conclusion to "It's not that hard to draw fairer districts."

Wikipedia has good entry on Gerrymandering. Ultimately, the US Constitution sets limitations to equal representation. Politicians have had 200 + years to game the system.

"In Ohio, the reform is real, but it is (so far) of a limited nature." It is my understanding that Ohio limited reform to the State Legislature due to the Supreme Court case you link. In addition, Boehner had objections to reform at the national level(his district is a marvel of Gerrymandering) and threw his weight around. Given the magnitude of the victory for Issue 1, I think Ohio will revisit how it draws US Congressional Districts, but voters won't see the impact until 2020. Ohioans are well aware that the outcome in most districts is rigged, and a majority (Blue and Red) seem unhappy about it.

Unfortunately, you are somewhat alone in this...

As we have clearly seen, especially in the case of big money in elections, the Left Wingery only wants redistricting when it benefits the Left..

For example.. What's your opinion on the court case which would change the Census to count only CITIZENS... IE VOTERS... and not people when determining voting districts and representatives??

Michale

-CW