The laziness and dishonesty in your comments is truly amazing.

The fact that you offer NOTHING in the way of substantiation is not amazing..

It's what we have come to expect... :D

It's part of your charm... :D

Michale

The laziness and dishonesty in your comments is truly amazing.

A

What part of entrenching for profit corporate middlemen in our healthcare system is leftist?

What part of "leftist" did I mention??

You types who insist that something right of center that is slightly left of the extreme right actually qualifies as leftist are just delusional. Completely out of touch with reality.

That's your opinion and I respect that...

But it is an opinion without any supporting facts...

I'm sorry you are blind to the suffering and economic hardship caused by our profit driven, price gouging healthcare system.
I'm glad that neither you nor anyone you know has been victimized by it, but if you choose to look at the facts, they are readily available.

And, by "facts" you mean spin...

Oh I am sure you can find a sob story here and there... That would likely be easy to do..

Doesn't change the fact that the majority of Americans wanted JOBS..

Not frak'ed up health care...

But given how many people I know... family, friends, neighbors... who have faced the nightmares of our system, it seems you are likely willfully blind to the problems... just like the ongoing institutionalized racism and all the other things that cause dissonance to your ideological fantasy world.

You mean, the institutionalized racism that you can't provide ANY facts to support???

As for Clinton, she's not leading in Iowa or New Hampshire and her lead is dwindling nationally... so your presumed nomination claim is as sketchy as the inevitable claims her supporters make.

Yer preaching to the choir here, sonny jim...

I am already on record as stating that Clinton is going to implode..

Talk to those who claim she is going to be POTUS... :D

Michale

What part of entrenching for profit corporate middlemen in our healthcare system is leftist?

You types who insist that something right of center that is slightly left of the extreme right actually qualifies as leftist are just delusional. Completely out of touch with reality.

I'm sorry you are blind to the suffering and economic hardship caused by our profit driven, price gouging healthcare system.
I'm glad that neither you nor anyone you know has been victimized by it, but if you choose to look at the facts, they are readily available.

But given how many people I know... family, friends, neighbors... who have faced the nightmares of our system, it seems you are likely willfully blind to the problems... just like the ongoing institutionalized racism and all the other things that cause dissonance to your ideological fantasy world.

As for Clinton, she's not leading in Iowa or New Hampshire and her lead is dwindling nationally... so your presumed nomination claim is as sketchy as the inevitable claims her supporters make.

A

Obama got played..

And Putin is pulling the strings....

That is Obama's legacy...

Michale

Biden Would Enter 2016 Race As Most Popular Candidate: Poll
http://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/biden-would-enter-2016-race-most-popular-candidate-poll-n435076

Seriously, though.. With poll numbers like this, how can Biden NOT enter the race??

Michale

Politics.... :D

I'll grant you that racism *COULD* explain it..

But so could a host of other possibilities....

And, funny thing.. There are NO RELEVANT FACTS to support a claim of racism..

To support a claim of racism, one must rely on mystical "code words" and magical innuendo..

Not a fact to be found...

"We can discount a possibility just because we don't happen to like it."
-Martin Sheen, FINAL COUNTDOWN

Michale

For the sake of clarity, let me slightly re-phrase that ...

Race had nothing to do with anything... I thought we had put that ridiculous argument to bed a long LONG time ago...If you can find me ONE single instance, supported by unequivocal facts, of institutionalized racism against black people since 2008, I will concede the point.

On day one of President Obama's administration, in the midst of the most destructive global financial crisis since the Great Depression, with the US economy virtually circling the drain, the Republican leadership in Congress vowed - as their top priority, no less - to take whatever action was necessary to ensure that Obama would be a one-term president. That's one promise they tried desperately to live up to.

Given the dire circumstances that engulfed the country when these intentions were made clear, tell me, what else would you call that kind of dangerously destructive behavior?

I'm all ears.

Race had nothing to do with anything... I thought we had put that ridiculous argument to bed a long LONG time ago...If you can find me ONE single instance, supported by unequivocal facts, of institutionalized racism against black people since 2008, I will concede the point.

On day one of President Obama's administration, in the midst of the most destructive global financial crisis since the Great Depression, with the US economy virtually circling the drain, the Republican leadership in Congress vowed - as their top priority, no less - to take whatever action was necessary to ensure that Obama would be a one-term president. That's one promise they lived up to.

Given the dire circumstances that engulfed the country when these intentions were made clear, tell me, what else would you call that kind of dangerously destructive behavior?

I'm all ears.

A new low in science: Criminalizing climate change skeptics
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2015/09/28/new-low-in-science-criminalizing-climate-change-skeptics.html?intcmp=hphz03

This op-ed was written by a REAL scientist...

You see, that is the problem with the Left Wing's concept of "science"...

It's nothing but a barely disguised political agenda...

Seriously, there is absolutely no difference between the Left Wing today and the "scientists" of years past who persecuted the real scientists who proved that the earth was round and that the planets revolved around the sun...

Absolutely.... NO... Difference.....

Criminalizing science..

THAT is the contribution of the Left Wing... :^/

Anyone who doesn't condemn such actions is complicit in such actions...

Michale

Once again, colour me shocked! :D

Michale

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/11895857/Vladimir-Putin-and-Barack-Obama-speak-at-UN-General-Assembly-live.html

Russia supplants the US as the world's Superpower when it comes to Middle East affairs..

That will be Obama's true legacy..

He will be forever known as the POTUS to conceded the US's superpower status to Russia...

Michale

As usual Micha, you are wrong.

Yea, you keep saying that..

And, as per the norm, you don't provide ANY facts to back it up... :D

Michale

Race had nothing to do with anything... I thought we had put that ridiculous argument to bed a long LONG time ago...

The mere fact that we elected a black man as POTUS proves beyond any doubt that institutionalized racism against black people is a thing of the past..

If you can find me ONE single instance, supported by unequivocal facts, of institutionalized racism against black people since 2008, I will concede the point.

But I know I won't have to because there hasn't been any...

The leadership of Speaker Boehner has consistently meant that the interests of a relatively few but increasingly vociferous group of GOP extremists are elevated at the expense of the interests and well-being of the nation.

Despite all the facts to the contrary... :D

If the GOP falls into the realm of oblivion, then it will be Speaker Boehner and Majority Leader McConnell who must shoulder the bulk of responsibility for that demise, make no mistake about it.

This makes a certain amount of sense, I agree...

But if the GOP falls into the realm of oblivion, it will be in SPITE of the efforts of Boehner and McConnell...

You see, B and Mac failed to learn a very VERY important lesson from the Democrat Party..

If you put personal ambition first, Party second and the safety and security of the country a very distant third, then you will always advance the agenda of the Party...

At least, in the short term...

Michale

Healthcare reform was absolutely a necessity as our system was failing miserably.

That's your opinion, unsupported by any facts...

The majority of Americans AND many MANY Democrats don't share that opinion...

What we got however nypoet22 and Liz, was a right wing, corporatist "fix" that cemented into place a system where Americans are paying two or three times more than we should be.

So, you are saying that Obama's signature healthcare is actually Right Wing and Corporatist... :D

OK...

I am firmly in the healthcare is a right not a luxury camp.

Colour me shocked!! :D

That means focusing on the major negatives instead of the minor positives.

Complete agreement...

Obamacare = TrainWreckCare

We are in completely agreement... :D

"Detente is a wonderful thing."
-Maureen Robinson, LOST IN SPACE

Michale

And, if we want another chance to reform the system, we can't spend our time defending Obamacare, we have to admit it didn't go nearly far enough. That means focusing on the major negatives instead of the minor positives.

That makes a certain amount of sense, I must admit.

The leadership of Speaker Boehner has consistently meant that the interests of a relatively few but increasingly vociferous group of GOP extremists are elevated at the expense of the interests and well-being of the nation.

If the GOP falls into the realm of oblivion, then it will be Speaker Boehner and Majority Leader McConnell who must shoulder the bulk of responsibility for that demise, make no mistake about it.

This one is especially for you ...

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/28/opinion/paul-krugman-the-blackmail-caucus-aka-the-republican-party.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=opinion-c-col-left-region&region=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region&_r=0

Healthcare reform was absolutely a necessity as our system was failing miserably.

What we got however nypoet22 and Liz, was a right wing, corporatist "fix" that cemented into place a system where Americans are paying two or three times more than we should be.

Price gouging was legalized.

Our government subsidizing the gouging makes it appear more affordable for some, but that is their tax money paying for the subsidies on top of the premiums, when it should be going towards productive endeavors.

The "starting point" argument only makes sense if further reforms are likely or even possible in the future, and so far, the only "reform" being considered is repealing the tax on medical device manufacturers... in other words reducing one of the sources of revenue that was meant to help cover some of the costs of the price gouging.
This gradual shifting of more of the burden away from those who are profiting off our system will continue.

35,000,000 or so Americans remain without coverage.
Huge numbers of people with insurance are still avoiding getting care due to costs.
Insurance premiums continue to unsustainably increase at more than double the rate of inflation.

Our system is still failing miserably.

I am firmly in the healthcare is a right not a luxury camp.
Throwing our (own and our government) money at the middlemen who provide no care squandered the sole opportunity at actual reform we have had and that we are likely to have for a long time.

Instead of slaying the dragon, we offered to deliver its meals.

And, if we want another chance to reform the system, we can't spend our time defending Obamacare, we have to admit it didn't go nearly far enough. That means focusing on the major negatives instead of the minor positives.

Looks like ALL of Hillary supporters are on the same page..

LITERALLY... :D

Michale

If the Democrat Party is so great, why is Clinton the presumptive Dem Candidate??

Clinton is the Party champion...

That says a LOT about the Democrat Party...

Michale

Even DEMOCRATS say that...

Americans wanted JOBS... We got TrainWreckCare..

We got a partisan Democrat agenda...

Nothing more...

Michale

WOW.. Talk about cherry picking facts.. :D

I mean, come on.. One obscure poll for a STATE Run version of Obamacare and THAT is your proof that the majority of Americans are NOT against TrainWreckCare?? :D

Com'on, JM.. Would YOU accept such felgercarb from me??

:D

And yet, what is preventing individual states from passing their own tort and malpractice reforms? Especially Republican controlled states? The answer is, big drum roll please... NOTHING!

Democrat obstructionism.. And Democrats obstruct it due to the lawyer special interest groups..

True or false??

YES. ACTUALLY I DO. It is after all, historical fact, that the Democratic party in history was the party of segregationists. No dispute. Now Michale, do YOU want to own the fact that is was the Republican Party that originally came up with the idea of the majority of what we now call Obamacare in the first place????

Yes.. If you want state unequivocally and for the record that the Democrat Party gave us the KKK, then I will agree that the GOP, "back in the day" was for something similar to TrainWreckCare...

Yes, if you want to cherry pick options, then you would find that people support individual options..

Yet that doesn't change the FACT that Americans never wanted Obamacare, and STILL don't want Obamacare...

Leave it to the Democrats to package individual aspects that Americans *WANT* into a dismal, disgusting and perverse package that NO ONE wants...

It takes a special level of incompetence to do something so utterly moronic.. :D

Regardless of all your SPIN (and that is ALL it is) the majority of Americans never wanted Obamacare..

The majority of Americans STILL don't want Obamacare..

These are the facts... And they are indisputable...

Michale

"Not true. Just change the facts and viola'...
The vast majority of Americans were against the Affordable Care act at the time of it's passing..
To this day, the majority of Americans are *STILL* against it..
You can rewrite history all you want.
But that doesn't change the FACTS..."

Actually it DOES change the facts. A poll was conducted in Kentucky in 2014. 57 percent had an unfavorable opinion about Obamacare. But only 22 percent had an unfavorable opinion of Kynect. But Kynect and Obamacare are exactly the SAME thing! Kynect is simply the state run exchange that Obamacare set up. Only the name is different!

"Remember tort reform??
The Democrat's response??
We'll think about it after we pass it..."

And yet, what is preventing individual states from passing their own tort and malpractice reforms? Especially Republican controlled states? The answer is, big drum roll please... NOTHING!

"And way back in the day, the Democrat Party was the Party of the KKK...
Do you want to own that in the here and now??? :D"

YES. ACTUALLY I DO. It is after all, historical fact, that the Democratic party in history was the party of segregationists. No dispute. Now Michale, do YOU want to own the fact that is was the Republican Party that originally came up with the idea of the majority of what we now call Obamacare in the first place????

A poll from 2012 found the following on Obamacare:

44% of Americans supported the law, with 56% against.

However, regarding the individual provisions of Obamacare:

82% favored banning insurance companies from denying coverage to people with pre-existing conditions.

61% favored allowing children to stay on their parents’ insurance until age 26.

And 72% supported requiring companies with more than 50 employees to provide insurance for their employees.

Find me a poll Michale, that says that a majority of Americans WANT to give up the ban on pre-existing conditions or are in favor of taking their children off their healthcare policies. YET those ARE the provisions of Obamacare. Just ask about the provisions without using the name "Obamacare" and that majority against it turns into a majority for it.

Those ARE the FACTS.

I would have to agree with Mopshell here...

Boehner managed to royally piss off both Democrats and Republicans..

Obviously, he was doing SOMETHING right! :D heh

Michale

I think he did a very commendable job in extremely adverse circumstances. I doubt there is any Republican who will do better in the position of Speaker... certainly no-one comes to mind.

Commendable? Hardly.

I suspect that history will look upon Speaker Boehner as one of the most dangerously destructive speakers in recent US history. Of course, this historical perspective on Boehner will most assuredly be moderated as a result of the actions of his successor.

I do indeed.. :D

For the record, most Weigantians do not suffer from this malady or fit into that category...

I appreciate that!

Just stating the facts... :D

Simply by virtue of being here, it indicates a level of open mindedness that is abnormal in your run-o-the-mill liberal.. :D

Michale

For the record, most Weigantians do not suffer from this malady or fit into that category...

I appreciate that!

It looks like the refugee situation in Europe has taken a decidedly different turn..

I have to admit, the situation has caused me to rethink things....

Has anyone seen Wreck It Ralph?? After watching it for the 20th time (grand-baby loves it.. :D) it occurred to me how the situation at the end of WIR is eerily apropos to the situation in Europe....

It's a fascinating example of life imitating art.....

Michale

That's what I like about you, Joshua...

You see clearly that, with most things that the Left rail's against Republicans for, Democrats are (more often than not) part of the problem rather than part of the solution.. :D

Michale

Liberals Are Done Debating
When a group confuses its politics with moral doctrine, it may have trouble comprehending how a decent human could disagree with its positions.
https://reason.com/archives/2015/09/25/liberals-are-done-debating

For the record, most Weigantians do not suffer from this malady or fit into that category...

But run-o-the-mill liberals??

That article describes them perfectly...

Michale

Just as abortion (or more accurately, ANTI-abortion) is a Republican Party agenda...

No difference whatsoever...

Except to the ideologues...

Michale

Americans wanted JOBS...

NOT healthcare disruption....

It's THAT simple...

Michale

It may not be "true" as "truth" is very subjective..

It is, however, completely factual...

And, completely relevant to my central point..

See #37..

Michale

At the time, healthcare was NOT so important an issue...

There were MANY issues that were more bi-partisan, more acheivable and a LOT more pressing...

Healthcare was a Democrat Party agenda item..

NOTHING more...

Michale

that would be argumentum ad populum. even if true, an established logical fallacy.

JL

And yet......

With all these "benefits" the American people are STILL against it....

Funny how that is, eh??

"You can't fool ALL of the people ALL of the time..."

Michale

Or have ya'all missed the fact that insurance premiums have risen higher than 400% in some places??

Where is the AFFORDABLE part of TrainWreckCare???

The only people who are happy about TrainWreckCare are the insurance companies, the drug companies and Obama Bots..

On that basis alone, TrainWreckCare is an epic fail..

Michale

It IS the endpoint of quality and affordable healthcare.....

As facts and reality clearly show...

Michale

evocative imagery, but not accurate in terms of obamacare's benefits. substantively speaking, exchanges have dropped the average costs, more government assistance is available, more people are eligible for medicaid, large employers are required by law to cover full-time workers, denial of coverage is not allowed, lifetime coverage limits are not allowed, pre-existing condition restrictions are not allowed, young adults can stay on their parents' plans, preventative care is fully covered, windfall profits must be redistributed as lower rates, and many more positives are points of fact.

does this mean there aren't negatives? of course not. but the glass, if not half-full, is pretty damn far from shattered.

JL

Re. The Affordable Care Act/Obamacare

The glass isn't near half empty... it was knocked over, fell to the floor, and shattered into sharp pieces that will cut us for years to come.

That is some powerful imagery, alright. I'm just not sure it applies.

That description of the ACA makes it sound as though the ACA is the endpoint of healthcare reform as opposed to just the beginning. Isn't it better to think of Obamacare as a good start that will require monitoring and improvement?

I mean, given the political landscape in your country, I seriously doubt anything much better could have been achieved at this time. Healthcare is an important issue and a complex one that is hard to get right in one shot.

The glass isn't near half empty... it was knocked over, fell to the floor, and shattered into sharp pieces that will cut us for years to come.

Credit where credit is due....

That's some pretty powerful imagery....

Kudos....

Michale

"i'd sooner not fall into the trap of treating a half-measure as if it were no measure at all"

I wish Obamacare even qualified as a half measure.

One thirtieth... maybe.

The minor accomplishments are offset by the entrenching of the status quo core problems.

The glass isn't near half empty... it was knocked over, fell to the floor, and shattered into sharp pieces that will cut us for years to come.

A

Democrats refused to negotiate.. Tort reform proved that..

Democrats wanted to dictate...

These are the facts...

Why do you think TrainWreckCare was passed by parliamentary tricks, replete with backroom deals and bribes and kickbacks totally and completely partisan??

Michale

:D

Michale

That point being is that, if ya'all want to, in the here and now, tie Political Partys to issues and positions long past, then I will be more than happy to play by those rules...

But the Democrat Party has too many skeletons in their closets to make that a viable debate option..

Don'tcha think???

Michale

the republicans disavowed romney-care as a tactical maneuver to hamstring a president they found arrogant. republicans didn't stop being pro-corporate on healthcare any more than the dems did.

Even if what you say is true (and I have no knowledge to dispute it) the WHY is not relevant to my point..

The simple fact is that, "in the day" as JohnM put it, the Democrat Party was the Party of the KKK...

Just as "in the day", TrainWreckCare was a GOP idea...

Why is not relevant..

WHAT is...

Michale

That's true..

But I am constrained to point out that it's the Democrats who have told blatant, unequivocal and demonstrably provable lies in the last few years...

I am not talking about being wrong, ala Bush's "lies"...

I am talking about blatant, knowing, in your face lies like "If you like your health insurance you can keep your health insurance" and " I used a private insecure bathroom closet email server for convenience" and "I welcome the debate on domestic surveillance" and "I did not send classified information thru my private insecure bathroom closet email server." and "I did not have sexual relations with that woman.."

Need I go on???

That's the trust-deficit issue I am referring to...

Michale

apples and battleships, as you are wont to say. the dems disavowed the klan as part of a party-wide shift against platforms based on racism and segregation.

the republicans disavowed romney-care as a tactical maneuver to hamstring a president they found arrogant. republicans didn't stop being pro-corporate on healthcare any more than the dems did.

JL

If only Democrats had adopted this strategy when they had the majority..

They might not be in the mess they are now...

Michale

Didn't think so.. :D

In other words, if you honestly and truly believe that the GOP owns TrainWreckCare, then you HAVE to believe that ya'all own the KKK...

Anything less is hypocrisy.... :D

Michale

My condolences for your loss, and all my best wishes for a brighter future - even for the cat.

@alto,

that's an awfully glass-half-empty view of obamacare, just as JM's is glass-half-full. yes, the PPACA is flawed and full of compromises, but compared to the situation prior to its passage, the country is still marginally better off than we were. should we expect more and better? absolutely. but i'd sooner not fall into the trap of treating a half-measure as if it were no measure at all.

@mopshell,

boehner may have made a herculean effort, but ultimately he couldn't pick a side. he would have been regarded as more successful if he'd tilted at windmills with the TP'ers OR if he'd gone full-on pragmatic and passed something the president might actually consider signing. but as Mayagi says, he walked in the middle of the road and got "squish - just like grape."

@michale,

Yes, trust is a big issue, but it's not just the dems that the public doesn't trust - it's the democrats, the republicans, the courts, the bureaucracy, pretty much the entire political and economic system. that's not a problem that's easy to address by getting rid of any particular part of the system - it's something that requires a real systemic change... election reform, campaign finance reform, lobbying reform, corporate reform, all the things that are not even being addressed tangentially.

@liz,

the more i see of the upcoming campaign, the more i'm brought in line with your thinking on vp biden being the best and least likely choice for the next POTUS. the US as a country in general just doesn't seem ready to accept what's best for us, in any sense.

JL

"Not true. Just change the facts and viola'..."

The vast majority of Americans were against the Affordable Care act at the time of it's passing..

To this day, the majority of Americans are *STILL* against it..

You can rewrite history all you want.

But that doesn't change the FACTS...

replacing it with nothing.

You also might want to keep in mind that the Democrats had a majority of both Houses of Congress at the time, as well as the Presidency, something the Republicans do not have. They also offered Republican input on Obamacare, and Republicans refused to even negotiate.

And the rewrite of history continues..

Republicans DID offer input on TrainWreckCare..

Remember tort reform??

The Democrat's response??

We'll think about it after we pass it...

Again, these are the facts...

You also have to remember, that way back in the day, what we call Obamacare now, with the individual mandate, WAS the REPUBLICAN plan out forth by the Heritage Foundation and NEWT Gingrich, as the alternative to the Clinton plan at the time. Another case of Republicans being for it before they were against it, because Obama became for it.

Yea???

And way back in the day, the Democrat Party was the Party of the KKK...

Do you want to own that in the here and now??? :D

No????

Didn't think so.. :D

It has a ' :D ' so that means I am playing nice.. :D

Michale

We should never forget the important points you've raised.

The right wing corporatist plan that was renamed Obamacare was compromised from the start.
Obama used wingnuts like Lieberman to justify the Heritage plan as a foundation, and with the participation of Wall Street Dems stabbed the left in the back repeatedly all throughout the process... making sure few of the core problems in Americas health care system were addressed.

Republican opposition was and remains the honey that got Democratic voters to swallow the bitter pill of that right wing legislation.

Republicans won.
Democrats lost.
And Obama should be fully credited for the "success".

The establishment has been laughing all the way to the bank while Obama gets praise from "liberals" every time new figures are released showing how well Obamacare is working. Turns out that misallocation of our citizens money into the pockets of middlemen who provide no health care or added benefit is the true measure of that "success"...

... the ever growing costs, the unmeasured results in improvement of actual health and the continuing bankruptcies never get much attention.

No, how many Americans are being forced to buy a product that they can't afford to use is how they are choosing to measure the "success".

And, by all means, don't let anyone talk about the opportunity costs. That extra trillion dollars or so going into the offshore tax havens of the insurers and drug companies could have been used for roads and bridges and schools and all sorts of things that would actually benefit Americans... up to and including actual health care of course.

Regarding Talking Point #1: Boehner was not "forced out". As the rest of the article states, he stepped down and he did so of his own free will.

Now, that's the kind of unrestrained spin that gives 'talking points' a bad name. :)

He announced last year and reiterated in his recent press conference that his decision to step down before the completion of his 13th term was a decision he'd made at least 15 months ago.

Originally he'd intended not to stand for re-election in the midterms. He says he changed his mind when Cantor was ousted in his primary race. I think the more compelling reason was that the Pope had consented to visit Congress in 2015 and Boehner wanted to meet him in person. The only way he could guarantee that was to be Speaker of the House during the Pope's visit.

The day after that visit, Boehner announced his resignation. Hardly surprising when the Pope's visit was the highest of highlights for him and everything else could only be the lowest of lowlights by comparison.

Boehner was clearly well and truly fed up with the batshit crazy tea partiers last year. He made jokes about them, called them "knuckleheads", and that was in public! I'm sure he said much worse in private. I sympathized with his exasperation too.

I'm glad for his sake that he's leaving on his own terms and at a time when at least one thing went his way. I think he did a very commendable job in extremely adverse circumstances. I doubt there is any Republican who will do better in the position of Speaker... certainly no-one comes to mind.

"The TrainWreckCare legislation is a perfect example..

The vast majority of Americans were against it...

NO ONE wanted it.. Americans are STILL against it to this day..."

Actually NOT true. Simply remove the name "Obamacare" from it, and a majority of Americans are actually in FAVOR of every single one of the provisions that it contains. And you keep failing to mention that a lot of the opposition comes from people who don't think that Obamacare goes FAR ENOUGH. 40 percent of all people polled are in favor of a SINGLE PAYER PLAN, otherwise know as MEDICARE FOR ALL. That is the largest single alternative to Obamacare, including the percentage favoring outright repeal and replacing it with nothing.

You also might want to keep in mind that the Democrats had a majority of both Houses of Congress at the time, as well as the Presidency, something the Republicans do not have. They also offered Republican input on Obamacare, and Republicans refused to even negotiate.

You also have to remember, that way back in the day, what we call Obamacare now, with the individual mandate, WAS the REPUBLICAN plan out forth by the Heritage Foundation and NEWT Gingrich, as the alternative to the Clinton plan at the time. Another case of Republicans being for it before they were against it, because Obama became for it.

You know who THAT is going to draw votes from.. :D

Michale

The vast majority of Americans were against it...

NO ONE wanted it.. Americans are STILL against it to this day...

Yet Democrats forced it thru, by hook and by crook, using parliamentary tricks, completely without compromising with the GOP side of the aisle... Hollow useless promises were made that were never fulfilled...

You know what the basis of "compromise" is???

TRUST

And the American people can't TRUST Democrats...

Whether it is President Obama or President Wanna-bee Hillary Clinton..

Democrats have totally depleted the trust well...

Michale

EVERY time...

Michale

The same reason agreeing to a Democrat position is a compromise in so many recent pieces of legislation..

I notice the Democrats NEVER shut down the government even ONCE.

That's because the GOP always capitulated and compromised..

The Democrats never do..

Hence, the government shut downs..

These are your Democrats..

MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY...

Granted, I have some responsibility as I have voted Democrat in the past...

Michale

"Then maybe Democrats should compromise on Planned Parenthood funding so as to prevent the government from shutting down, eh??"

How is agreeing to the Republican position a compromise? How is holding hostage all the rest of government spending instead of voting on two separate clean bills a compromise, one for funding the government, one for Planned Parenthood? Maybe because they know they don't have the votes to defund Planned Parenthood and never will? Wasn't not using federal funds for abortion THE compromise in the first place???

"In the interests of playing nice, I won't bother bringing up that the Democrats REFUSED to compromise and work out deals when they had the majority..."

I notice the Democrats NEVER shut down the government even ONCE. And you want to talk about my way or the highway??? Really? What alternate universe do you live in with the Republicans???

ALWAYS......

Hoo hum..... Move along.. Nothing to see here....

Michale

In the interests of playing nice, I won't bother bringing up that the Democrats REFUSED to compromise and work out deals when they had the majority...

Why should ya'all expect the GOP to??

Also, it won't be just social security checks that will stop if the government shuts down this time. WIC and Food Stamps will stop also. In 2013 when the government shut down, the USDA had some contingency funds available to continue the program. Those funds are apparently gone now. So what happens now when my disabled friend in a wheel chair doesn't get his food stamps for the month? There are millions of people like that in the same boat.

Then maybe Democrats should compromise on Planned Parenthood funding so as to prevent the government from shutting down, eh??

Oh, I forgot.. Democrat's idea of "compromise" is "my way or the highway"....

Michale

Also I could not agree more.

The 50 extreme right wing, Tea Party House Republicans are like children who throw tantrums when they don't get their way. They don't care or can't seem to grasp that there are two Houses of Congress, and three branches of government, and that they don't have the votes to simply have the House dictate to everyone else what will or won't happen, that they need to compromise and work out deals.

Also, it won't be just social security checks that will stop if the government shuts down this time. WIC and Food Stamps will stop also. In 2013 when the government shut down, the USDA had some contingency funds available to continue the program. Those funds are apparently gone now. So what happens now when my disabled friend in a wheel chair doesn't get his food stamps for the month? There are millions of people like that in the same boat.

http://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?&id=JN.gAx23n5utcxdNnrho8Hysg&w=300&h=300&c=0&pid=1.9&rs=0&p=0

I can't help but think of the Ray Orbison song...

"It's crying time again..."

:D

Again, apologies if this is completely out of line..

When my mom passed away, I opened my eulogy for her with a joke. I know she loved it...

Michale

Michale

Thanks for the kind words, and I hope you're holding up, too. I do apologize for not being more specific, but I've never been one of those people who easily shares personal details online in a public forum. Anyone who wishes to join me can raise a glass of Sir Arthur Guinness' fine product (or perhaps a shot of Jameson's) some time tomorrow, and offer up "to absent friends." Slánte!

Mopshell -

Thank you too for the kind words and sentiments (although I have to admit I had to look up the Latin... the only one I know by heart is "Illigitimi non carborundum." Words to live by...).

To all: rarely do I get a confirmation so quickly, but this was from a Washington Post article on Boehner:

“I don’t know how anybody’s going to do anything different; it’s just going to be a new person,” said Rep. Thomas J. Rooney (Fla.), a deputy whip. “In a few months, we’re all going to look back and think: ‘Hey, you know what? Maybe it wasn’t so easy just saying that we’ll replace Boehner.’ .?.?. We’re a divided government and we’re extremely polarized, and trying to herd all those cats is not an easy thing to do.”

Heh. [in a cowboy accent, of course]: "HYAHHH! Get along li'l kitties..."

-CW

I am very sorry to hear about your family sorrow.

pacem et consolationem vobiscum

Really sorry to hear about that. I've been dealing with some issues, too.

This may be a good weekend for all of us to take a break from commenting and just tend to things that matter the most to us and take a little time to reflect on things.

I realize I haven't been doing a great job of answering comments this week, but we're in the middle of some family sorrow. Before anyone asks, no, it's not the cat -- she's doing as good as can be expected. It's in our extended family, which has taken up a lot of time in the previous week and will take up all of this weekend as well.

Just didn't want anyone to think I'm ignoring them. Also, as for today's comments, I am asking everyone to please be as polite as you can, because I won't have much time to monitor things.

As I mentioned in the article, pax vobiscum.

Thanks.

-CW