Michale

I would never dream of serving up a dish of crow for you.

You should know me better than that ... :)

Do you know what day it is? Guess what day it is!

The UN has voted to affirm the nuclear deal agreed by Iran and P5+1 powers.

And, guess what!?

That's right. There will not be immediate sanctions relief but, rather UN sanctions will be lifted according to the plan outlined in the deal and as I discussed with you earlier in this thread.

What's your favourite crow recipe?

I dunno what happened.. I pushed away my trackball as I hit SUBMIT COMMENT and I think the button hit my HDD Docking device and got pushed...

I have no idea what that means but, I hope you didn't hurt yourself. :)

There is a reason why Trump and Sanders are getting noticed...

Michale

No offense... :D

Michale

This post randomized tablet

post 151 7 seconds, post 152 3 seconds

This post is a randomized desktop submission.

All - please excuse the geek in me, but I wanna know!

Most, if not all my double taps seem to occur when I hit submit again before receiving confirmation of the first submission.

Yep...

Michale

Most, if not all my double taps seem to occur when I hit submit again before receiving confirmation of the first submission.

CW is going to return home facing a mess similar to the one my parents encountered when the went on vacation and left me in charge of my brothers!

I think the earliest I have used that word was in 1988 in USENET..

Or was it FIDO???

Sorry, the memory ain't what it used to be.. :D

michale

Michale

It's a freaky word...

Like road

:D

michale

When did you commence to start using that word?

We're talking Chat-Bottery... :D

Michale

I mean, think back to recent history..

The Left in general and the gay community specifically went absolutely ape-shit when a gay hotel owner met with Ted Cruz because Cruz has sad some meany things about gay people...

Ya'all are supporting a deal with a country that *executes* people for being gay...

Gay guy meets with a guy who is mean to gays.
Lefties lose their frakin' minds!!

US makes a deal with a country that EXECUTES gay people...
Lefties are completely and unequivocally supportive...

Do ya'all see why someone would be a tad confused???

Michale

Don't go there.....self identification as a troll, self diagnosis of paranoia and/ or narcissism. : - )

hehehehehe Yea, I dunno what happened.. I pushed away my trackball as I hit SUBMIT COMMENT and I think the button hit my HDD Docking device and got pushed...

Sorry about that.. :^/

...."gay people's corner"....

Closet??? ; - )

No... Corner... I am claustrophobic and don't like closets.. :D

Michale

...."gay people's corner"....

Closet??? ; - )

- channeled by Groucho

I guess the Weigantia Press Office REALLY wanted to make that point, eh?? :^/

CW, can ya delete comment #126 thru 132

Michale

At least on THIS issue..

I'll grant you.

If a gay person wants a cake from a christian baker, ya'all are RIGHT THERE, screaming hysterically and protecting that all important right of having that cake baked.......

Credit where credit is due and all that...

But when it comes to the more mundane hoo-hum issues of oh, I dunno.... SAVING LIVES...

Well, I guess it's only me that is in the gay people's corner...

It's a bear I must cross, I spose... :D

Michale

At least on THIS issue..

I'll grant you.

If a gay person wants a cake from a christian baker, ya'all are RIGHT THERE, screaming hysterically and protecting that all important right of having that cake baked.......

Credit where credit is due and all that...

But when it comes to the more mundane hoo-hum issues of oh, I dunno.... SAVING LIVES...

Well, I guess it's only me that is in the gay people's corner...

It's a bear I must cross, I spose... :D

Michale

At least on THIS issue..

I'll grant you.

If a gay person wants a cake from a christian baker, ya'all are RIGHT THERE, screaming hysterically and protecting that all important right of having that cake baked.......

Credit where credit is due and all that...

But when it comes to the more mundane hoo-hum issues of oh, I dunno.... SAVING LIVES...

Well, I guess it's only me that is in the gay people's corner...

It's a bear I must cross, I spose... :D

Michale

At least on THIS issue..

I'll grant you.

If a gay person wants a cake from a christian baker, ya'all are RIGHT THERE, screaming hysterically and protecting that all important right of having that cake baked.......

Credit where credit is due and all that...

But when it comes to the more mundane hoo-hum issues of oh, I dunno.... SAVING LIVES...

Well, I guess it's only me that is in the gay people's corner...

It's a bear I must cross, I spose... :D

Michale

At least on THIS issue..

I'll grant you.

If a gay person wants a cake from a christian baker, ya'all are RIGHT THERE, screaming hysterically and protecting that all important right of having that cake baked.......

Credit where credit is due and all that...

But when it comes to the more mundane hoo-hum issues of oh, I dunno.... SAVING LIVES...

Well, I guess it's only me that is in the gay people's corner...

It's a bear I must cross, I spose... :D

Michale

At least on THIS issue..

I'll grant you.

If a gay person wants a cake from a christian baker, ya'all are RIGHT THERE, screaming hysterically and protecting that all important right of having that cake baked.......

Credit where credit is due and all that...

But when it comes to the more mundane hoo-hum issues of oh, I dunno.... SAVING LIVES...

Well, I guess it's only me that is in the gay people's corner...

It's a bear I must cross, I spose... :D

Michale

At least on THIS issue..

I'll grant you.

If a gay person wants a cake from a christian baker, ya'all are RIGHT THERE, screaming hysterically and protecting that all important right of having that cake baked.......

Credit where credit is due and all that...

But when it comes to the more mundane hoo-hum issues of oh, I dunno.... SAVING LIVES...

Well, I guess it's only me that is in the gay people's corner...

It's a bear I must cross, I spose... :D

Michale

At least on THIS issue..

I'll grant you.

If a gay person wants a cake from a christian baker, ya'all are RIGHT THERE, screaming hysterically and protecting that all important right of having that cake baked.......

Credit where credit is due and all that...

But when it comes to the more mundane hoo-hum issues of oh, I dunno.... SAVING LIVES...

Well, I guess it's only me that is in the gay people's corner...

It's a bear I must cross, I spose... :D

Michale

"Of course, you can PROVE that, right!?? Oh yea, that's right.. I forgot. You were absent the day they taught LAW at Law School.."
-Tom Cruise, A FEW GOOD MEN

Do you have any FACTS that show it's policy??

Jeeze, look who I am asking for facts.. :^/

LOL! Concern trolling is always touching, despite its insincerity.

You realize that every time you respond to me, I win..

You realize that, right? :D

Irregardless of that, the simple fact is, apparently, that I care more for about the welfare of gay people than ya'all do..

I would *NEVER* be agreeable to empowering a country that EXECUTES gay people...

Apparently, ya'all don't have a problem with that...

The facts clearly show who is on the side of gay people and who isn't...

Michale

That is USA police policy.

There, I fixed that for you. The only logical conclusion is that they're a well organized criminal gang and they don't really care about official USA policy (or laws).

"I guess the only logical conclusion is that ya'all don't really care about gay people."

LOL! Concern trolling is always touching, despite its insincerity.

Another mass shooting in an Innocent Victim Shooting Gallery..

AKA "Gun Free Zone"

Why don't advocates of Innocent Victim Shooting Gallerys put up a sign that is factually accurate?

Instead of a sign that says:

GUN FREE ZONE

put up a sign that says:

Only Psychotics With Murder On Their Minds Have Guns Zone

At least people would know they run the risk of being victims...

Michale

Institutionalized racism is dead in America.. It died the day we elected a black President..

No one, NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON, has been able to offer ANY evidence, ANY shred or ingot of fact, that disproves this statement..

And you want to compare THAT to Iran's official policy of executing people SOLELY because they are gay??

I mean, honestly, look in a mirror!

Ya'all get downright HYSTERICAL when an American baker doesn't want to bake a cake for a gay person..

Yet, ya'all enthusiastically support a deal that immeasurably empowers a country whose official policy is to EXECUTE people for being gay!??

So, I guess the only logical conclusion is that ya'all don't really care about gay people...

Or, more accurately, Obama's ego is more important to ya'all than gay people who are executed for being gay...

Michale

The *ONLY* reason that Obama thinks this is a good deal is because he NEEDS a deal.. ANY deal.. for his legacy...

And the *ONLY* reason ya'all think this is a good deal is because Obama NEEDS a deal... ANY deal... for his legacy...

If this exact same deal was on the table with a GOP POTUS, ya'all would be making the EXACT same arguments that I am making.. The only difference is that we would all be in complete agreement..

And so ends the debate... :D

Michale

Thanks! But, I don't think my work is done here ... :(

Perhaps not.

But once Obama goes to the UN and the UN sanctions are terminated, my work will be.. :D

But again, credit where credit is due. At least you have the courage to actually TAKE a position on the deal and defend it.. :D

No one else does...

Michale

Really??

THAT is official USA policy!??

I think you should talk to your President about that...
{/sarc}

Jeeze.. Talk about an apples/eskimo argument. It is official Iranian policy set by their LEADERS that gay people are executed..

If you can make the same claim about some rogue cop shooting a black guy....???

JM, I expected better from you...

Michale

You're welcome!

This deal will take some time to go through and to focus on the parts that I actually understand. For the rest, I will rely on the experts in the field.

Thanks! But, I don't think my work is done here ... :(

Ya'all are taking the word of President If-You-Like-Your-Health-Plan-You-Can-Keep-Your-Health-Plan Obama and a country that EXECUTES people for being gay...

And ya'all think *I* am the one who is wrong here???

:D

Michale

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_obama_job_approval-1044.html

Michale

Now THAT is just creepy....

Michale

And that worked out SO WELL during the IRAQ issue where the UN pulled in over 9 BILLION dollars...

Regardless of all that, the simple fact is, after FINALIZATION DAY (within the next week or two) there won't BE any more UN resolutions for the UN to decide on...

As per Section 18 of the JCPOA Annex..

THAT is the point ya'all want to ignore..

Once Obama goes the the UN, the UN sanctions are history...

Don't take my word for it..

Let's see what happens...

Michale

"Any re-imposition of sanctions will have to go thru the UN Security Council where Russia and China can exercise their VETO..."

They can, but won't, due to clever legal construction. In the event of a dispute, a preliminary process of lifting the sanctions can start, but it's toothless. The Security Council must then vote to continue stopping the sanctions (yes) or stop terminating them (no). A veto by Russia or China a automatically reinstates the the economic sanctions! The power of the veto rests with the US and like minded allies. If Security Council fails to act, then the sanctions are automatically reinstated. That's why this provision is referred to as snap back.

Here's the official language:

37. Upon receipt of the notification from the complaining participant, as described above, including a description of the good-faith efforts the participant made to exhaust the dispute resolution process specified in this JCPOA, the UN Security Council, in accordance with its procedures, shall vote on a resolution to continue the sanctions lifting. If the resolution described above has not been adopted within 30 days of the notification, then the provisions of the old UN Security Council resolutions would be re-imposed, unless the UN Security Council decides otherwise. In such event, these provisions would not apply with retroactive effect to contracts signed between any party and Iran or Iranian individuals and entities prior to the date of application, provided that the activities contemplated under and execution of such contracts are consistent with this JCPOA and the previous and current UN Security Council resolutions. The UN Security Council, expressing its intention to prevent the reapplication of the provisions if the issue giving rise to the notification is resolved within this period, intends to take into account the views of the States involved in the issue and any opinion on the issue of the Advisory Board. Iran has stated that if sanctions are reinstated in whole or in part, Iran will treat that as grounds to cease performing its commitments under this JCPOA in whole or in part.

But Obama is NOT always right...

Whatever Obama does is NOT always good for the country..

Sometimes, Obama ROYALLY scrooos the pooch...

This is one of those times...

This is the reality...

Michale

But, that's really OK..

It's enough to know that *I* am living in reality and everyone else is living on the banks of denial... :D

Michale

Wrong again, Michale.

Really??

How else will sanctions be re-imposed??

By your own admission, the US cannot impose sanctions alone. It would have to have world-wide support, INCLUDING support from Russia and China...

As such, the ONLY way sanctions would be re-imposed would be to go thru the UN...

You seem to be straying away from the actual TEXT of the deal and venturing into areas that you would LIKE the text to say, but doesn't actually say...

Irregardless, the argument will be settled when the JCPOA is adopted by the UN...

Once sanctions are terminated, we will know who was right and who was wrong...

But, like the 2014 Mid-Terms, no one here will ever concede that they were wrong and I was right.. :^./

Michale

Obviously Obama *IS* content with it because he didn't insist that it was part of any deal...

In other words, Obama's legacy was more important than the safety and freedom of Americans being held hostage by Iran...

And to see Obama get so pissy because he was called on this reality???

Priceless.....

Michale

Yea.....

This assumes that Iran is completely trustworthy and honest about WHERE it's performing the entire chain of nuclear fuel cycle.. :^)

It all comes down to trust...

Obama trusts the world's sponsor of terrorism..

Obama trusts the country that executes people for being gay....

What does common sense tell you??

Michale

Not because he asked about why the Americans being held unjustly in Iranian jails was not part of the deal - a valid question which Obama answered.

Asinine because the inept reporter assumed that Obama was content with that scenario.

Back much later tonight, if time permits ...

... I think CW may have to adjust the title of this column a wee bit ... :)

Wrong again, Michale.

Not to mention continue to hold innocent Americans hostage...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/obamas-press-conference-was-a-case-for-american-weakness/2015/07/15/bca75e1e-2b3a-11e5-a250-42bd812efc09_story.html

Michale

I think you mean snap-back sanctions.

And, for the record, there will be no "snap BACK sanctions"...

Any re-imposition of sanctions will have to go thru the UN Security Council where Russia and China can exercise their VETO...

There will be no sanctions...

Iran can continue to sponsor terrorism and kill gays to their hearts content, with President Obama's blessing....

Michale

I think you mean snap-back sanctions.

No.. I mean the "snap" inspections that allows Iran almost a month from the time that the "snap" inspection is announced until the time that it actually happens...

As per comment #72

It would be like the cops advising the local drug cartel, "We'll be executing a search warrant on your place of business in a month."

Does anyone here HONESTLY believe that such inspections are viable??

Michale

I think you mean snap-back sanctions.

Not years... Just til the UN adopts the JCPOA and terminates UN Sanctions...

According to Obama's deal that should be by the end of the month...

Keep in mind, however...

It still doesn't make it a good deal even if the UN DOESN'T terminate the sanctions, as there is still the laughable idea of "snap inspections"..

But, when the UN does terminate the Sanctions as per Obama's deal, then we would be in agreement that it is a "bad deal"...

There is still the hurdle of the US Congress actually allowing Obama to consummate this deal..

THAT is a whole nother argument..

I hate crow, by the way. Probably because I've never had the opportunity to acquire a taste for it. Heh.

Apparently, you are going to have ample opportunity to develop the taste for it..

Don't worry... It tastes like chicken.. :D

Michale

:-)

How many years must we wait until you admit that you are wrong about this?

I hate crow, by the way. Probably because I've never had the opportunity to acquire a taste for it. Heh.

Re-read my comment #88 ... or, better yet, re-read the ALL of the parts of the JCPOA + ANNEXES that deal with sanctions.

But, first, TAKE OFF YOUR BLINDERS!!!

When the UN adopts the JCPOA and terminates all UN Sanctions, THEN will you admit it's a bad deal???

Michale

Not according to the text of the JCPOA...

According to the text of the JCPOA, the UN sanctions will be lifted once the UN adopts the JCPOA..

Don't take my word for it.. Just read the text..

Better yet, let's just wait a few days til the UN adopts the JCPOA and terminates the UN Sanctions...

When the UN does this in the next few days/week you will simply have to concede that it's a bad deal solely based on the lifting of sanctions issue..

It's already a bad deal based on the ludicrous notion of 24-Day Notification Of "Snap" Inspections..

But the sanctions issue is enough to label it a bad deal..

Let's just wait and see what the UN does.. :D

I'll have your Crow Feast ready for you. :D

Michale

From the main part of the JCPOA:
"SANCTIONS

"18.The UN Security Council resolution endorsing this JCPOA will terminate all provisions of previous UN Security Council resolutions on the Iranian nuclear issue - 1696 (2006), 1737 (2006), 1747 (2007), 1803 (2008), 1835 (2008), 1929 (2010) and 2224 (2015) SIMULTANEOUSLY (my emphasis) with the IAEA-verified implementation of agreed nuclear-related measures by Iran and will establish specific restrictions, as specified in Annex V."

The US and EU sanctions will be handled in similar fashion, as per the JCPOA. You should take a closer look at Annex V.

From Annex V (the part you glossed over, ahem):

"C.Implementation Day

"14. Implementation Day will occur upon the IAEA-verified implementation by Iran of the nuclear-related measures described in paragraph 15 below, and, simultaneously, the E3/EU+3 taking the actions described in paragraphs 16 and 17 below, and with the actions described in paragraph 18 (the one you cite above but conveniently take out of context, Michale) below taking place at the UN level in accordance with the UN Security Council resolution."

This agreement is remarkably detailed and complex and you should be very careful when posting quotes of it out of context in a futile attempt to give weight to your spurious arguments.

How would you like your crow, Michale?

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20150716/us-dem-2016-clinton-poll-bf705a485e.html

Ya gotta just laugh at this...

Every time the country get's "introduced" to Hillary Clinton, her poll numbers go down.. :D

She was MORE popular before all her "introductions".. :D

How hilarious is that!!?? :D

Michale

Finalization Day is when the US goes to the UN..

When the US goes to the UN, the UN will approve the JCPOA...

Upon approval of the JCPOA, UN Resolutions 1696 (2006), 1737 (2006), 1747 (2007), 1803 (2008), 1835 (2008), 1929 (2010) and 2224 (2015) will be terminated.

All those sanctions will be terminated **SOLELY AND COMPLETELY** based on Iran's word that it will abide by the JCPOA...

It's all based on trusting Iran..

Iran.. A country that is THE sponsor of terrorism.

Iran.. A country that EXECUTES gay people solely for being gay.

Michale

According to the text of the agreement, Finalisation Day will result in the termination of all UN Sanctions per Section 18 of the deal Annex..

18. In accordance with the UN Security Council resolution endorsing this JCPOA, the
provisions imposed in UN Security Council resolutions 1696 (2006), 1737 (2006), 1747 (2007), 1803 (2008), 1835 (2008), 1929 (2010) and 2224 (2015) will be terminated subject to re-imposition in the event of significant non-performance by Iran of JCPOA commitments, and specific restrictions, including restrictions
regarding the transfer of proliferation sensitive goods will apply.

This will take place on FINALISATION DAY..

A. Finalisation Day
2. Upon conclusion of the negotiations of this JCPOA, the E3/EU+3 (China, France, Germany, the Russian Federation, the United Kingdom and the United States, with the High Representative of the European Union for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy) and Iran will endorse this JCPOA.
3. Promptly after the conclusion of the negotiations of this JCPOA, the proposed UN Security Council resolution referred to in Section 18 of this Annex will be submitted to the UN Security Council for adoption without delay.

There it is in black and white...

Once the agreement is put to the UN (within the next couple days), all UN sanctions will be terminated...

But, if you don't want to believe the black and white text of the deal, I can wait the few days until the UN does it's thing...

THEN will you concede that it's a bad deal??

Michale

Now, go look up Implementation Day and tell me when and how each of the various sanctions (US cf EU cf UN) will be lifted and/or suspended.

Take even more time!

It's the day that Obama goes to the UN and terminates ALL UN Sanctions against Iran..

FALSE!

Now, go look up Implementation Day and tell me when and how all of the sanctions (US/EU/UN) will be lifted.

Take your time.

But, credit where credit is due...

To date, you are the only one with the courage to take a position on the Iran deal...

Yer wrong, but at least you are taking a stand.. :D

Kudos...

Michale

Finalization Day is actually 2 Days ago..

It's the day that Obama goes to the UN and terminates ALL UN Sanctions against Iran..

Something ya'all claimed would make the deal a BAD deal...

But now that it's actually coming to pass, ya'all still maintain that it's a GOOD deal..

That's back-pedaling...

Michale

That's not hindsight, Michale ... that is what's known as a severe case of panglossian thinking on your part. Ahem.

He hasn't apologized for this yet, has he? :rolleyes:

Apologize?? For looking out for his own country's best interests??

I wish Obama was a QUARTER of the leader that Netanyahu is...

We wouldn't be having this discussion...

So, what you are saying is that the Middle East would be a better place than it is today if Saddam had been left alone to rape and pillage and make war on his neighbors at will??

What do you base that assumption on??

I put forth to you that, with Saddam constantly attacking Iran, Iran would ALREADY have nuclear weapons...

And Tel Aviv might now be a smoking radioactive crater..

That's the fun thing about hindsight.. You can postulate whatever scenario you wish to... :D

Michale

No, you cannot.

But, I can assume that you completely misunderstand the difference between Finalization Day and Implementation Day.

You like crow, right? :)

That's why I rely on the experts in the field of nuclear physics and arms control who disagree with your assessment.

You don't need to be in ANY field to know that a verification process that allows almost a month notice is no verification process at all..

All one needs is political agnosticism and a heaping healthy dose of common sense..

Well, you're most assuredly beyond something! :)

:D Touche' :D

FINALIZATION DAY 14 Jul 2015..

Are ya'all back-pedaling???

So I can assume ya'all are back-pedaling...

Here's another prediction for you..

Obama stated that the UN Sanctions against Iran would be "suspended" and could be snapped back at any time..

10K Quatloos says that, when Obama goes to the UN in the next few days to have the sanctions lifted, the sanctions will be TERMINATED....

Not suspended....

Remember, you heard it here first...

Michale

Well, you're most assuredly beyond something! :)

I don't think anyone here is qualified to make that assessment. Neither is most of the rest of the blogosphere and media, for that matter.

That's why I rely on the experts in the field of nuclear physics and arms control who disagree with your assessment.

Prime Minister Netanyahu warning about a disastrous historic mistake having to do with an empowered Iran.

Oh, Michale ... didn't you read what I said next?

You know, the part about it being the height of irony?

As in Netanyahu couldn't push the US any harder if he tried into the Iraq war, 2003 edition and, in so doing, is a big part of the crew most responsible for empowering Iran in the Middle East.

He hasn't apologized for this yet, has he? :rolleyes:

To put it in a more understandable context, it would be like the cops advising the local drug cartel, "We'll be executing a search warrant on your place of business in a month."

Does anyone here HONESTLY believe that such a verification process is actually viable??

Michale

The ONLY relevant part of the deal is the text on verification..

And THAT text says that Iran will have almost a month from the time an inspection is announced until the time the inspection actually happens, IF it happens at all..

THAT is the text from the deal.

There can be no verification under this deal.. None whatsoever...

And THAT is what makes this a bad deal...

Michale

A nuclear armed Iran and a nuclear arms race in THE most volatile part of the country..

Yea.. "Great" deal... {/sarc}

Michale

And if you are wrong??

If Iran IS serious about wanting a nuclear weapon to destroy Israel??

You have to keep in mind, we are NOT dealing with a country that has rational leadership...

We are dealing with a country that has leadership that are religious fanatics...

Are you willing to bet the survival of Israel on your premise?

The verification process built in to this deal is non-existent.

So, yes..

It all DOES come down to ""We can trust Iran to abide by the agreement..."

Michale

So let me get this straight..

You see nothing wrong with "empowering" (your word) a country that is the world's sponsor of terrorism??

You see nothing wrong with "empowering" a country that EXECUTES gay people??

I am beyond gabberflasted...

Michale

Prime Minister Netanyahu warning about a disastrous historic mistake having to do with an empowered Iran.

If that's not the height of irony, I'm sure I don't know what is.