Can anyone explain this to me in words of one-syllable??

Ah ... I'm pretty sure I can't do that. Heh.

I like to think of myself as an intelligent person who can reason logically about things and discern meaning...

But the actions of the HOUSE have really REALLY confused me here...

A few days ago, Democrats killed the TAA legislation. This legislation is tailor-made for Democrats. Helping workers who will be displaced if TPP (the actual trade deal) passes...

According to reports, Democrats killed the TAA as a way to kill TPA, which is the Fast Track legislation, which is what Democrats REALLY oppose....

With me so far???

OK, so fast forward to today when the TPA is put to a House vote as a stand alone piece of shi..... legislation...

And, with the help of Democrats, TPA PASSES!!!!

W.T.F.!!????

Can anyone explain this to me in words of one-syllable??

Because I am completely cornfused.....

Michale

"Well, aww right... "
-Buddy Holly

:D

Michale

You know me..

I try to break things down so knuckle-dragging ground-pounders like me can understand it..

I assume, since you didn't dispute the assessment, that it's accurate?? :D

Michale

That's too simplistic, naturally ... :)

So, let me see if I understand what you are saying...

With regards to the TPP et al......

Republicans are right and Democrats are wrong???

Republicans have the best interests of this country at heart and Democrats are hell bent on scroo'ing over the country??

That sum things up??

Michale

You are doing a masterly job of showing why TPP is -- hopefully -- going to go down. You giveth and you taketh away in the same post. The results will be both negligible AND profound!

Sometimes, my analysis can require a very careful reading. Ahem.

I believe I said that the impacts of the TPP on the American economy will be negligible, relative to the very substantial impact on many of the other signatories to the agreement. Of course, as with any trade agreement, there will be some negative economic impacts. But, that is not a valid reason to reject an important agreement like the TPP.

The impacts for the US are profound indeed and multifaceted with extremely positive impacts that go well beyond the economic benefits of trade deal, all of which I have already enumerated.

It sounds very much like you are exhibiting a case of matching up the problems and challenges facing the US economy and American workers with the wrong cause. NAFTA isn't the cause of the economic problems in the US and using the TPP as the latest bogyman to be feared won't solve them.

All will be well because...long-term...unique standing...global leadership...shut up about the Tribunals!...shut up about NAFTA!...shut up about patent protections!...shut up about Dodd Frank!...you're messing up my vision of America accepting their inevitable decline gracefully!

That tells me that I have done a very poor job of explaining where I'm coming from. So, I'm going to call it a day on this issue for the time being and watch closely what happens next in Congress and in the TPP negotiations and comment further when we know more.

It's been a pleasure discussing this with you and look forward to continuing at a later date!

You are doing a masterly job of showing why TPP is -- hopefully -- going to go down. You giveth and you taketh away in the same post. The results will be both negligible AND profound! The improvements to the economies in the Asia-Pacific region, assuming they come to pass, are worth the continued dismantling of the American middle class! Suck it up America! You owe it to the rest of the world! Sacrifice your citizenry because everyone else is afraid of China! And disregard, disregard, disregard the increased power bestowed upon multi-national corps -- we don't talk about that. That screws up the narrative! The narrative is replete with soaring rhetoric about American exceptionalism -- except Americans have bills to pay. They're in debt; salaries suck, benefits suck, my street has 4 foreclosed houses in a block of 8, but hey! All will be well because...long-term...unique standing...global leadership...shut up about the Tribunals!...shut up about NAFTA!...shut up about patent protections!...shut up about Dodd Frank!...you're messing up my vision of America accepting their inevitable decline gracefully!

http://thediplomat.com/2015/06/the-next-us-president-asias-impact-on-americas-future/

I'd love to get everyone's take on this very interesting piece ...

I think what is poorly understood by a lot of people is that these "trade deals" like the TPP have relatively negligible impacts on the US economy - whether they be positive or negative and, there will always be both.

What is most important here for the US and for Americans is what the TPP agreement will mean for the rest of the Asia Pacific region - countries like Vietnam and Japan, for example - and how the significant impacts in those countries will move their economies forward and be a catalyst for real liberalization and political reform.

What's the benefit to America if that happens? I would argue that the benefits are substantial and long-term and mean more steps toward a more cooperative and rules-based competitive Asia Pacific region and a significant move away from the potential for some very serious conflict.

Now, I understand that it can be hard for many Americans to see this big picture and to concentrate only on what the TPP will do for the American economy and its workers.

But, Americans must face the reality of their position in the world and accept the responsibility they have in terms of providing the kind of global leadership that will be necessary to protect their unique standing and to manage America's inevitable decline in the midst of the rise of other powerful nations like China.

This report disputes the benefits to Mexico of NAFTA: http://www.cepr.net/press-center/press-releases/twenty-years-after-nafta-mexico-has-experienced-lagging-growth-persistent-poverty-and-increased-unemployment

Meanwhile, as David mentions, numbers of jobs LOST in America far outstrip the numbers gained AND the jobs gained pay less than those lost.

belied by studies showing that these elite economic entities have won their arbitration cases only 29% of the time under a similar dispute resolution mechanism used by the WTO since 1996.

So we're supposed to think, ok, no problem, the bad guys have only won 29% of the time so far. That's supposed to be comforting...how? Are we to assume the will continue to only win 29% of the time? Do you hold a crystal ball and can accurately predict what will happen going forward, when the decks are stacked more fully FOR the elite economic entities?

Recent history has shown when you give an inch they take a mile. If you can't grasp that then I can only accuse you, Elizabeth, of being short-sighted.

You say opponents are dismissive (68) of the economic benefits TPP will engender. I say YOU are dismissive of the fact that such economic benefits have, to date, gone almost entirely to the 1% and the rest of America has been slowly bled and is still bleeding. You are projecting forward, apparently swallowing the rosy scenarios TPP fans insist will happen. We are people actually living with the failure of previous rosy scenarios.

(BTW, mentioning the U.S. Chamber of Commerce (66), a wholly-owned subsidiary of the Koch Bros wing of the republican party, is not persuasive to progressives. You might as well quote FOX News.)

You mention the "strengthened environmental and labor protections" but don't mention that, thus far, in other treaties, those protections have largely been ignored. We have limits to what we can do to enforce them.

You also dismiss the patent protections provided to Big Pharma; the risks to Dodd Frank, etc.

You are big on impressive sounding words and noble ideas like U.S. leadership, all of which ring hollow to me. U.S.-- in the forefront of letting multi-national corps rule the world!

Isn't this a great country!!???

If you were born a man, but want to be a woman to rake in big bucks, you can!!!

If you were white, but want to be black, you can even do that too!!!!

I am tired of being human..

From know on, ya'all have to treat me like a Klingon!!! :D

K'plau!!!

:D

Michale

"Luke, if you only knew the power of the Dark Side."

:D

Michale

Estimates show 1 million American jobs were LOST as a result of NAFTA to Mexico and Canada.

Heh. That will be news to Canadians!

You know what a common problem is with most opponents of the TPP ... their worldview, if they have one, is extremely limited.

"6 million jobs depend" ... This is sadly how spin works.

People hear "depend" and they think "create". What does "depend" even mean? What I can tell you it doesn't mean is create.

Estimates show 1 million American jobs were LOST as a result of NAFTA to Mexico and Canada.

The other problem, as Robert Reich points out, is that all of the benefits of these "free trade" policies have gone to people at the top. Not average Joes.

http://www.alternet.org/robert-reich-real-reason-corporate-friendly-tpp-nearly-dead

Sorry, Liz. I don't buy it. If the TPP is "progress," I guess I'm a conservative because it's not the "progress" I want.

-David

Okay, I clicked on that link, against ALL better judgement. :)

I'm glad you posted it - it was awesome!

And, here's another shocker for you ... the guy in that video would enthusiastically support the TPP.

You know, there ought to be some sort of minimum threshold word count here whenever a link is posted in a comment.

:-)

That, pretty much, says it all...

Michale

If you fear China being able to write the rules on trade you should support scrapping this thing and starting a clean treaty that deals with trade issues and nothing else.

You lost me on that one.

China isn't part of the TPP (yes, anyway) but it is certainly already writing the rules with other regional trade deals it is involved in.

And, you can bet a boat load of quatloos that while the other countries in the Asia Pacific region would much rather follow the US on these issues they will sign on to deals with China in the absence of US leadership.

First off, I think opponents of the TPP agreement are basing their opposition on suppositions and assumptions and on what they perceive as mostly (and massive) negative consequences of NAFTA for the US economy and American workers.

I find this opposition to be wildly misguided and largely unfounded, not to mention wholly dismissive of how this agreement may benefit the US in terms that go way beyond economic and, indeed, far outweigh the negatives that will inevitably be present in any trade deal.

It is my understanding that the TPP will strengthen labour and environmental protections far beyond what NAFTA provided, for example. And, the concerns that Senator Warren has about giant corporations getting favourable treatment in resolving disputes is belied by studies showing that these elite economic entities have won their arbitration cases only 29% of the time under a similar dispute resolution mechanism used by the WTO since 1996.

My greatest criticism against all of the popular opposition to the TPP in the US is the extreme short-sightedness of the opponents and their apparent lack of a complete understanding of what the TPP means for the US, not only in terms of the relatively small economic impacts - positive and negative - for America but, far more importantly, in terms of promoting cooperation and competition and mitigating coercion and conflict in an area of the globe that finds itself increasingly in need of both.

My understanding is that Corporate Lobbyists, in the hundreds, have had direct input into aspects of the deal to date. Leaks indicate Big Pharma has won patent protections that ensure high prices for years to come (opposed by Doctors Without Borders among other groups), and there are suggestions that Banks will be able to weaken Dodd Frank. There is also the matter of the extra-judicial Tribunals which will be stocked with corporate-owned lawyers, and will enjoy powers and protections not shared by environmental or labor groups. The problem then becomes Fast Track, wherein Congress must give an up or down vote and will then be arm-wrestled into approving because some aspects of the treaty might be good. Thus it becomes a vehicle to force corporate favors down our throats in order to supposedly ensure that China doesn't write the rules on trade.

If you fear China being able to write the rules on trade you should support scrapping this thing and starting a clean treaty that deals with trade issues and nothing else.

If you think the world will end if this deal goes down well, I hope we'll find out. I'm willing to take the risk. What I am utterly opposed to is anything that gives any American or multi-national corporation (including Banks) ANY additional power of any kind. They have shown they value profit, especially that which goes into the pockets of their top people, over anything else, period. They will sacrifice the environment. They will sacrifice lives. They are conscienceless agents and the fact that they have been given favored status in the process of developing this treaty is, frankly, stunning. It shows a complete lack of awareness on the part of the administration -- which is only echoed by the President's exceedingly weak argument that we should support it out of trust for him.

I support the Pres on most things but not on this one. Frankly, it doesn't matter what his intentions are, it matters what corporations will do. They have shown repeatedly that they will find any possible crack through which they can disempower people in order to enrich and/or empower themselves. What we've seen over and over is that they've got the money and the lawyers and you can bet that it will be corporate rules that will be enforced rigorously while environmental, safety and collectiive-bargaining efforts will be weakened, ignored and flouted. Just like, in American, banks get reimbursed 100 cents on the dollar but republican judges rule that municipalities can stiff pension holders. Funny which contracts are sacred and which aren't.

Let me ask you this, Liz. How exactly is the TPP going to create "a more prosperous and peaceful world"?

Let's take a look at NAFTA, first. Trade between the US and Mexico has increased dramatically since NAFTA and I've read that the US Chamber of Commerce has said that 6 million American jobs depend on this expanded trade with Mexico.

Before NAFTA, relations between the US and Mexico were marked by a lot of anti-Americanism and now there is a very healthy and cooperative relationship taking shape. NAFTA has been a great catalyst for political and economic reforms in Mexico that have made this improved relationship possible.

Similarly, Vietnam will be one of the signatories to the TPP that will benefit the most in terms of an improved economy and higher standards of living for its people. And, like in Mexico, political and economic reforms will be helped along by signing on to a trade deal like the TPP which will help move Vietnam toward a more open society and sustainable economy. That, by the way, is very good for America, especially in view of its big rebalance toward the Asia Pacific region as an effort to counter the growing influence and aggressive nature of China in that part of the world.

One could even say that America owes Vietnam all of the economic and political benefits that come to it as a result of the TPP, for obvious reasons dating back to the US involvement in that country 40 years ago!

Trade deals like the TPP represent a great opportunity for America to demonstrate its leadership in reinforcing the global order and in helping to ensure that cooperation and competition prevail over coersion and conflict, especially in the East and South China Seas.

Calling TPP a Trade Deal is to hide the noxious crap buried in it -- but -- Yay Internet!-- those things can't stay hidden anymore.

I'm curious ... what "noxious crap" do you believe to be buried in the still developing TPP deal?

Do you think the Obama administration is out to screw, excuse my language, the American worker?

Actually, calling the TPP a "trade deal" does indeed obscure the reality that - for the US, at least - the TPP is really more of a foreign policy issue and an effort to ensure that China is not large and in charge of writing the rules of trade in the Asia Pacific region.

If you don't like the deal negotiated by Obama and feel that Congress should ultimately reject the final deal, then ... how should I break this to you gently ... wait until you get a load of what the Chinese rules will mean for American workers.

In that way TPP is much like ALEC -- a hideously damaging organization that got away with stuff under the radar for years. Still does to an extent but it's getting harder and harder because we know about it now and can spot the legislation they place with Republicans around the country.

It is to laugh... :D

Michale

His corruption certainly earns him this week's Most Disappointing Democrat Of The Week award, but his owning up to his crimes and his unqualified apology (at the very least) have to be applauded. We certainly hope future dirty politicians will learn from Fox, when caught with their hands in the cookie jar.

I have a much better suggestion for the MDDOTW award..

The Democrat Operatives who fed the story to the New York Times about Marco Rubio and his 4 traffic tickets in 17 years...

And the condemnation from those same Dem operatives over Rubio's "splurging on a luxury speedboat" that was actually a family fishing vessel small enough that it could fit in Hillary Clinton's smaller pool in one of her many houses...

I guess Democrats are absolutely terrified of Marco Rubio as the GOP POTUS Candidate.... :D

Michale

Equal Pay For Equal Work..

Unless you work for Hillary, then you work unpaid...

Hypocrite...

Michale

Re; 56.....

Again, I have to concur.... {{OUCH}} :D

Not so much about the protections you point out but the simple fact that it gives another country equal say in keeping or discarding those protections in the US...

The agreement will allow companies to challenge local laws and all they have to do is claim they will impact "profit". This will lead to a race to the bottom where any regulations that help people but somehow reduce profit can be challenged.

I am not so much worried about that..

I am not worried about local companies changing local laws, but rather FOREIGN GOVERNMENTS changing US laws...

I don't mind if a local company wants a local law changed.. The adage of don't shit where one eats usually prevents abuses in that regard..

What I *DO* care about is some scumbag leader in The Democratic Republic Of BumFuq in cahoots with other scumbag leaders, being able to change US laws to fit THEIR needs and to hell with Americans...

You said it yourself in a previous commentary...

National Sovereignty....

I don't expect Vietnam to obey US laws in Vietnam and I'll be damned if I am going to obey Vietnamese laws in St Augustine FLORIDA, USA

Michale

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/03/15/on-the-wrong-side-of-globalization/

Basically, he argues that we really don't have "tariff" barriers to trade anymore. These were largely eliminated by past agreements and this has been a good thing.

What these new trade agreements focus on and call barriers are what the rest of us call protections. Protections like the Clean Water Act and Clean Air Act.

The agreement will allow companies to challenge local laws and all they have to do is claim they will impact "profit". This will lead to a race to the bottom where any regulations that help people but somehow reduce profit can be challenged.

Stiglitz also talks about how corporations are using these types of agreements to reduce wages and benefits. It is hard to ignore that this is exactly what happened with NAFTA.

-David

I don't see how it's going to do this. Especially looking at what NAFTA did.

If we don't have a believable answer to this question, I don't think we should do it. I don't see a believable answer to this question. I see a lot of rhetoric and hand-waving.

-David

Someone has to ... hmmm ...no, bad idea. :)

Trying again, more briefly: TPP isn't a Trade Agreement. It's a corporate power agreement. Everything about that is so damningly wrong. There was a time in America when we could believe large American and multi-national corps were forces for good -- anyone who believes that now is uninformed or naive or being paid off.

Strip everything out of it re: Big Pharma patent protections and corporate tribunals and come back to the public with what's left. Then remove all pretences towards protecting worker's rights in other countries since that won't happen in any serious way. Then show us what's left. Let's see what's in there re: environmental protections and how they will be enforced. If enforceable, good. If only pretending to enforce, remove, and let's see what's left.

In other words: get real. No fancy rhetoric, no abstractions, no misty promises.

Why not? Just between you and me and the four walls, he doesn't seem willing to take a stand on this, one way or the other. For him, it seems to be more about process than substance or the relative merits of the arguments for or against.

I also cannot speak for CW..

But I think he mentioned before that it is likely fruitless to comment on TPP, TPA, TiSA etc etc because we really don't know what's in it..

And secrecy and subterfuge breeds suspicion...

I have to concur with David, much as it hurts. :D J/K

If it's that good, then our representatives should be allowed to read the text in full w/o having to jump thru hoops and sign blood oaths...

Michale

I want the U.S. to lead for people, not multinational corporations.

How do you expect the US to effectively lead from outside of the TPP?

That wouldn't be leading from behind, a concept which I endorse in the right circumstances but, rather leading nowhere, fast and without any followers.

Doctors Without Borders is against it -- go to their website and read why: http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org

Those folks are an excellent example of people who deal with conditions on the ground and can show exactly how the sorts of planks in TPP hurt people. They don't deal in abstractions about "prosperity" and "forward progress" and similar tropes -- they deal with people's lives.

In a less dramatic form that's precisely what opponents to TPP do -- they look at what's been happening to people's lives all over the world and see how most people are now essentially held hostage to the interests of big banks, large corps and bought and sold "leaders". And they've had enough.

Even Obama is having trouble selling TPP -- his arguments have been exceedingly vague, muted, and abstract, like Elizabeth's. Guess what? We don't buy it anymore. We don't think bankers on Wall Street are the "best and brightest" doing great work for America, we think they're gamblers who've been given keys to the vault, and criminals who keep paying their way out of jail. We don't believe large American or International corporations give a damn about anything except their bottom lines -- which are routinely massged,, finagled and misrepresented. We don't think America values "work" -- everything about it is set up to benefit passive income. Elizabeth talks about "American Values" -- which one's? The one's we are told we hold or the one's we actually live by? TPP fans yap about the former; TPP opponents know the reality is the latter.

I like David's idea: just stop. Better to do nothing than to actively make things worse.

Well, people don't trade, David, multi-national corporations do. Heh. Sorry - couldn't resist, not that strong.

By the way, where would people be without industry? It is possible to be for these trade agreements and continue to work towards what works for people.

If the TPP is so good for people, why can't people see it?

Do you want me to answer that? :)

I want the U.S. to lead for people, not multinational corporations.

If we were taking a role in making people's lives better instead of helping a few multinational corporations that want lower regulations and lower wages, I'd be all for it.

Progressive leadership should advocate for people, not "industries".

If the TPP is so good for people, why can't people see it?

-David

Why not? Just between you and me and the four walls, he doesn't seem willing to take a stand on this, one way or the other. For him, it seems to be more about process than substance or the relative merits of the arguments for or against.

Sigh.

For example, you cite currency manipulation. This is and will be an ongoing problem that needs constant attention by national governments and persistent negotiation to work through the problems. The TPP and other regional trade agreements shouldn't be expected to solve all of these issues.

Global trade is opening up. There is no stopping that, whether or not the US signs off on the TPP. The real question is what role do you want the US to play in this arena ...

The US manufacturing industry is currently in a surplus situation in terms of the balance between billions of dollars in exports versus imports.

My point is that whatever is happening in the manufacturing industry in the US has precious little to do with any free trade deal.

The TPP is most decidedly good for people. That is assuming, of course, that people wish to live in a more prosperous and peaceful world that has a forward-looking progressive approach to future existence.

Instead of a race to the bottom, I believe we should be working to put economic pressure on countries to raise their conditions.

We should be leveling the playing field upwards, not downwards. If I thought there was anything in the TPP that did this, I would support it. For example, there's nothing in it that deals with currency manipulation.

My take, anyhoo.

-David

The "industry" supported NAFTA too.

This doesn't mean it was good for people. Industry supports lots of things that are good for "industry" and not for people.

-David

Do you think this trend in manufacturing will be reversed if the Obama administration is prevented from pursuing the TPP?

The train has left the station, Michale - you're either on it or you're left behind.

Because they are stuck in the past with no vision for the future.

Shouldering ALL the responsibility and reaping LITTLE to NO benefit is not really what I would call in our best "national interest"...

The deal with China is a PERFECT example of that..

Michale

Apparently, I am not..

What exactly are you referring to??

It's so easy to blame NAFTA for all of America's economic woes but, it is the US manufacturing industry that is among the TPP's greatest supporters.

Why is that?

Are you kidding??

Of COURSE they are all for it.. They can move their manufacturing operations to Vietnam and pay pennies for labor..

Does the name APPLE mean anything to you?? :D

Why do you think Labor is so against TPP/TPA/TiSA??

Michale

Why is that?

As long as Americans and their leaders fail to understand and appreciate what is in their national interest, America will not be able to successfully manage its inevitable "decline" in a world where it will be left behind.

I don't want to live in that world.

Unbelievable. Or not.

You think I'm talking about altruism? You really don't get it.

It's going to be the Middle Class, every day Americans who are going to have to foot the bill...

It's like if I announce a big Money Giveaway for All Weigantians... And CW foots the bill...

CW is over there doing his best Ralph Macchio impression from MY COUSIN VINNY...

WHOOAAA!!!!! WAIT A MINUTE!!!!!

:D

Michale

America's altruism throughout the world is well-known and undeniable..

I don't have a problem with that...

A trade pact with South Korea increased the US GDP by a billion dollars...

It increased SK's GPD by TWELVE billion dollars...

Is there anything wrong with wanting a level playing field?? Where the US is not giving giving giving and other countries are taking taking taking??

The Climate Change pact with China is another perfect example..

The US must cut emissions 25% by 2030...

At that time, China will "discuss" cutting their emissions..

And THAT is a good deal???

It's time the US stops bending over and taking it up the shorts so that other countries can enjoy a windfall...

Michale

I could easily make the case that the "decline" in America has come because of our leadership's policies of being the world's Welfare Agency..

The immigration issue is a perfect example..

Despite cherry-picked stats, it is undeniable that the US has a jobs problem.. Millions of able workers and very few jobs....

Despite this, our leaders want to bring in tens of millions MORE workers and dump them into the jobs market..

On what planet would that NOT be a totally boneheaded and moronic play??

Like I said, there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with our leaders looking out for Americans first and then looking out for the rest of world after..

It's what we Americans PAY them to do...

Michale

We're talking being paid a million dollars an hour to give a speech..

We're ALSO talking, in addition to million dollar p/hour speeches, hundreds of millions MORE dollars being paid into a Clinton slush fund that Hillary has complete control over...

There is NOTHING comparable on the GOP side of the issue...

If you don't want a POTUS who is so utterly and completely and blatantly bought and paid for by corporate interests, then you simply cannot vote for Hillary...

Michale

Walker and Rubio have plenty of million dollar backers.

We're not talking "backers" or "donors"..

We're talking being paid a million dollars an hour to give a speech..

Corporate media never asks them about it.

We're not talking media, we're talking Party activists...

Michale

History. NAFTA was terrible for America. A good part of our manufacturing base picked up and moved to Mexico or Canada.

I don't buy that. Like it or not, no country - not even America - can stop the forces of globalization and information technology. If you're looking to place blame on the economic woes of America, then you need look no further than at economic policy and ideology and at a lack of visionary leadership, not on a North American trade deal that had far more significant and positive foreign policy consequences for the US than impacts on its economy.

The US has a clear choice - it can skuttle the TPP and other regional trade agreements and watch the rise of new global powers without playing a vital role in setting the rules of the road or it can shape the way the world operates - economically and otherwise - in a way that reflects American ideas and ideals.

America will not stop the opening of trade around the world and that would not even be in its own national interest.

The American economy is already pretty open. The impacts of trade agreements like the TPP (and, NAFTA before it) will substantially and disproportionately open emerging markets - like that of Vietnam, for example - with far less impact on the North American economy. Besides, we can't forget all of the other factors that affect the American economy - negatively and positively - and are far more impactful that moving trade deals forward.

The foreign policy consequences of trade deals like NAFTA and the proposed TPP are overwhelmingly positive for the United States. The negative economic impacts of a trade deal like the TPP on the US are relatively minor and can be mitigated by visionary leaders. Even Paul Krugman has said as much about the NAFTA.

But, alas, I am no historian, not by a very, very long shot ... though, if I had the chance to do it all over again I think I would have loved to be immersed in history ...

The important thing for America will be to effectively manage the decline and to maintain its global leadership role.

When was it better than now? Well, everything is relative and that will surely be answered in different ways depending on ones particular perspective.

Yes, I've noticed. On the other hand, you talked about it declining. I'm curious about when you think it was better.

I'm a big fan of America or, should I say, the promise of America, in case you haven't noticed. Perhaps, I'm the biggest fan ... around here, anyway.

Corporate media never asks them about it.

http://prospect.org/article/scott-walkers-shady-deals-win-him-campaign-cash-billionaires

-David

Am I wrong??

I don't think I am...

Michale

That's part and parcel to the first question...

What is Bill and Hill having to do to earn those fees??

A question I hope Weigantians ask *AFTER* Hillary is the DEM POTUS candidate...

Michale

I can't speak for Chris, Liz, but here's one of the reasons I'm against it.

History. NAFTA was terrible for America. A good part of our manufacturing base picked up and moved to Mexico or Canada. We received little benefit back in return. All the "trade" basically was pretty much one way. Out. The TPP will be the same but worse.

Some pretty brilliant economists have written about the lousy trade agenda of the Clinton years (Paul Krugman's book was my favorite).

Here's a good question though. You say it's "progress". I would ask what this means. Everything I've seen so far sounds like marketing and the "magic" of markets.

Right now Washington is so bought and sold by special interest groups like the U.S. Chamber of Commerce that I would almost prefer a complete moratorium on legislation rather than see them pass anything.

Just. Stop.

Ok, you have to pass the budget. Pass the same one as last year. Stop with everything else unless it's really designed to help people.

Every "fix" that they recommend is usually some giveaway to an industry donor. (In truth, there's some good done, but the measure of harm is immeasurably worse.)

Best,
-David

p.s. Love the Bernie Sanders piece, CW. Here's another Bernie quote to add. When asked about the media's performance so far in this campaign:

What does Bernie Sanders think of the media’s performance so far this campaign? Barely adequate. The huge speaking fees Bill and Hillary Clinton have accepted? Wrong question, he says; you should be asking why anyone pays them.

Not a bucket-list entry, but welcome nonetheless :D

Michale

Pitch #1... TPP, TAA, TiSA..

WAY OUT in front of it..

Strike 1..

Pitch #2..... SCOTUS ruling on TrainWreckCare...

SWING AND A MISS

Strike 2..

Pitch #3... Iran Nuclear Bargain...

TOTALLY fell for the sucker pitch..

Strike 3!!

Obama is OUTTA DER!!!

Gonna be an interesting month..... :D

Michale

PEACE.... Thru Superior Firepower

Or, if you prefer the CW version...

"Sometimes ya gotta fight when yer a man"
-Kenny Rogers, COWARD OF THE COUNTY

Michale

"if you have to ask why, then the decline of America has progressed much further than I could have ever imagined"

Well, now that you got what you asked for, I hope you'll reconsider that as an indicator of America's decline.

BTW - I'd like to hear when you think America was at it's zenith. We started with a constitution that allowed slavery and gave women no rights. We exterminated the native people. We are seemingly always at war, but even when we aren't, we're threatening somebody with one.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/11/politics/jeb-bush-polish-waitergate-scandal/index.html

Oh that's easy....

Japanese and German governments actually work WITH business owners and not against them..

I have lived in both places and the difference is astonishing...

Michale

When you fly, what do the Flight Attendants tell you to do if oxygen mask deploy???

Put YOUR mask on first and THEN help others put their masks on...

Sound advice...

Michale

. . . and allowing the Greedy Old Predators' to slide by with their dishonest and illogical anti-family propaganda in response. As they deploy the "job killer" and the "poor, poor business owner" talking points, the media never asks them why exceptional American businesses can't make it work, but Japanese and German businesses can.

Not sure I do...

Are you saying that American leaders should screw over Americans so that citizens in Mexico can have a better life??

Why???

Michale

Additionally, there are too many Americans who are too willing to settle for that less than mediocre state of affairs.

Okay, now THAT is just hilarious.

And, if you have to ask why, then the decline of America has progressed much further than I could have ever imagined in my wildest nightmares. Well, that's a bit of hyperbole but, you get the point. Right??

Paid sick-leave....

Paid this... Paid that....

OK, Bernie..

YOU foot the bill and we can give all the employees all the freebies that YOU are willing to pay for...

Does Bernie think that business owners can just print money??? Only the Obama Administration can do that!!

Michale

Basically, what Sanders is saying is that attacks on families that don't share Sanders ideology are perfectly acceptable and, for the Democrat Party, actually encouraged...

I just can't see any "values" in that attitude...

:^/

Michale

So, attacks on christian families is Sanders idea of "family values"??

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, **or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;** or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
-1st Amendment Of The United States Constitution

I'm just sayin'.....

Michale

"AND THE QUARTERBACK IS TOAST!!!"
-Theo, DIE HARD

:D

The American people spoke firmly...

"NO, Mr President!! You DON'T get your legacy at the expense of every day Americans!!!"

Michale

In America, there is no sin in putting Americans first...

Michale

Or, why are Democrats so afraid of competing with the rest of the world and so quick to give up any sort of global leadership role with respect to trade and so dismissive or ignorant of how the impacts of the TPP go way beyond the economics of the issue?

Two words...

NAF TA :D

NAFTA gave all sorts of promise of "competing with the rest of the world" and "the greatest thing since frozen pizza"...

Is this country better off because of NAFTA???

I don't think so, but I am open to being proven wrong..

Michale

I'm curious ... why is a progressive or Progressive like yourself so dead set against progress when it comes to issues such as the TPP.

Or, why are Democrats so afraid of competing with the rest of the world and so quick to give up any sort of global leadership role with respect to trade and so dismissive or ignorant of how the impacts of the TPP go way beyond the economics of the issue?