Michale

on this we agree!

Present company excepted, of course.. :D

Michale

She's obviously a very intelligent, insightful and wonderful person... :D

assuming we live in a godless universe, what freedom of religion ultimately amounts to is freedom of imagination - you can't tell people what to believe or not believe in, because even if most of the ridiculous beliefs will never be true, someday a few of them might.

"I will compare and confess Jesus Christ and Spiderman"
-Robin Williams, LIVE AT THE MET

I have no problem with people believing in whatever they wish to..

My dander only gets up when they claim that THEIR belief is sacrosanct and all other beliefs are horse shit..

Hence all the intense ...er.. "discussions" we have here in Weigantia... :D

Michale

my wife would love you for saying that. my reply to her when she says much the same: assuming we live in a godless universe, what freedom of religion ultimately amounts to is freedom of imagination - you can't tell people what to believe or not believe in, because even if most of the ridiculous beliefs will never be true, someday a few of them might.

JL

"These aren't the Toasters you are looking for..."
-Daniel Jackson

:D

Michale

I'm just sayin'....

Obama's IRS is STILL doing civil forfeiture when there is no evidence of criminality...

The IRS Seized $107,000 From This North Carolina Man’s Bank Account. Now, He’s Fighting to Get It Back.
http://dailysignal.com/2015/05/11/the-irs-seized-107000-from-this-north-carolina-mans-bank-account-now-hes-fighting-to-get-it-back/

Where's the outrage, Weigantians???

Michale

There are two reasons for the boycott.

The first is that the “key Arab allies” already know that Obama, who genuinely believes he is always right, does not listen to anybody.
The Camp David exercise, therefore, is designed only as an occasion to admire Obama’s strategy and celebrate his “historic achievement” in accepting Iran’s position as a “threshold nuclear power.”
The second reason is that Arabs already know what Obama is going to say.
“Obama made it clear he wanted an accord with Iran under any circumstances,” a senior Arab official recently told me, on condition of anonymity.
-Obama’s lonely ‘Arab Summit’
http://nypost.com/2015/05/11/obamas-lonely-arab-summit/

No one but Obama and his supporters believes that the Iran deal is a good deal...

NO.... ONE.....

Michale

Yea??

Go check out chucktodd.org and sethmeyers.org

These guys are in the BUSINESS of selling themselves... :D

So, ya see, it's easy to see how to make a simple mistake...

Check yer email, CW... :D

Michale

I am constrained to point out that, in a 2006 poll a majority.. A MAJORITY of Democrats thought it was VERY Likely or SOMEWHAT Likely that Bush was complicit in the 9/11 attacks..

A.... MAJORITY....

So, do you REALLY want to point the finger at GOP nuttery??

Forget politics and partisanship and look at things objectively..

Imagine a President Cruz becomes POTUS in 2017... President Cruz lists La Raza, MoveOn.org, and the Southern Poverty Law Center as extremist groups.

Cruz's IRS starts to crack down on Progressive groups...

Cruz purges a LOT of Military leaders who don't support his agenda...

Cruz states that those who support amnesty for illegal immigrants are "terrorists" and "arsonists" etc etc...

THEN, in this environment, a far reaching military exercise is announced that designates listed deep-blue locations such as Manhattan, the Bay Area, and Cambridge, Mass., as “hostile,” while conservative suburban communities were all listed as “friendly.”

Again, being objective and dispassionate... Wouldn't the EXACT same reaction come from the Left as is coming from the Right in the here and now?

Of course it would...

The idea that Obama's Administration would attack Texas is ridiculous...

The facts that lead people to this type of belief are not...

It all comes down to a question of trust...

The American people don't trust Obama..

Michale

What if Obama gave a WE ALL SHOULD LOVE IRAN party and nobody came??

America's Collapsing Alliances
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/americas-collapsing-alliances_943617.html

4 of the 6 Gulf leaders slated to attend Obama's Camp David shin-dig have told Obama, "Thanx, but no thanx.. We're too busy to listen how Iran is such an honorable country."

Obama's foreign policy legacy is in the toilet...

Michale

Actually, I already showed how wrong TS is... :D

Michale

#BlueLivesMatter

Or stop gay people from complaining when they can't get their lifestyle accepted by the Christian Club...

Michale

Which isn't to say that crutches aren't important to people..

Some have a god...

I have my beer.. :D

Michale

Not according to the law, you're right..

But it IS a "christian thing" as far as the Left is concerned.. There is incontrovertible evidence to prove that...

The order of the Bill of Rights has no legal implications, that's just grasping-at-straws- nonsense (and I believe the Grand Poobah hizself has already called you out on that one).

No one said it has any legal implications..

But it's a pretty good indication of the thoughts and intentions of the founding fathers..

As the Grand Poobah hizself stated when they included Freedom of The Press, the ONLY profession mentioned, within the BoR...

Obviously, the FFs felt that it was an important enough profession to carve out protections for it in the BoR...

The fact that it was mentioned is a good indication of how the FFs felt about it.

The fact that freedom of religion is mentioned first and foremost before ANY other freedom is ALSO a good indication of how the FFs felt about it..

Do you think I LIKE that!?? Do you think I enjoy saying that the Founding Fathers placed Freedom Of Religion before ANY freedom, INCLUDING Freedom Of Speech..

Hell no.. I hate it... Religion is crutch for people who can't handle reality..

But the facts are the facts...

And the FACT that FoR is mentioned as THE very first freedom is a good indication of the importance the founding fathers placed on it..

That's my story and I'm sticking to it..

Michale

The Constitution may fit in your pocket but constitutional law does not. Legal opinion does not agree with your absolutist interpretation of the 1st amendment. The Supreme Court has decided that doing something does not imply you believe in what you doing. The law cannot make you believe (I cite you as evidence) or stop you from complaining (again, you), but it can, in principle and in fact, make you do, or damn well wish you had done. Including cake, whether there is another shop down the block or not.

It's not a Christian thing. Jews don't believe you should eat or associate with pigs. Big Pork gets big Federal subsidies but Jews do not get a Pork Subsidy deduction or refund. Jews are effectively forced, yes forced, to subsidize pork. They live with it without changing their beliefs. You can't always get what you want, and that includes majorities.

The order of the Bill of Rights has no legal implications, that's just grasping-at-straws- nonsense (and I believe the Grand Poobah hizself has already called you out on that one).

Oooooooo, and the ref takes a point a way!!

The dirty name-calling commences!!

It will be interesting to see which hero the hysterical Left backs... :D

Michale

As in human sacrifice, all you passionate worshipers of Baal. Or crashing airliners into the World Trade Center on account of your sincerely held religious beliefs about infidels, green carpets and virgins.

And, if we were talking about christian business owners wanting to sacrifice gay couples on the altar of their religion, then you would have a point.

But we're not, so you don't.. :D

I think the doctrine of the bigger evil is applicable here..

What's the bigger evil??

A gay couple has to go down the block to a different business??

OR...

A christian must totally violate their beliefs, values and principles??

The answer is self-evident..

By forcing christians (but not muslims or any other religion) to violate their beliefs simply for the convenience of a small minority of people is passing a law preventing the free exercise of religion.

Something the VERY first part of the VERY first amendment prohibits..

As I have said, I am as religiously agnostic as they come.. But, christians DO have a good argument... An argument that far FAR outweighs the argument of the gay activists..

Liz,

In my not so humble opinion, Snowden is a coward who does not believe in what he says are his principles and convictions. And, the only way he can redeem himself, in my mind, is to come back to the US and defend his actions. That he does not do that tells me everything I need to know about him.

Yer preaching to the choir on that point.

The simple fact that he had to do what he did via China and Russia proves he's not the patriot he claims to be..

Michale

Truer words were never spoken...

That is precisely why I am not conflicted about Snowden ... not in the least.

There were so many ways he could have gone about this, the way the Obama admin has treated "whistleblowers", notwithstanding.

In my not so humble opinion, Snowden is a coward who does not believe in what he says are his principles and convictions. And, the only way he can redeem himself, in my mind, is to come back to the US and defend his actions. That he does not do that tells me everything I need to know about him.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"

Using the established and valid reasoning, the only logical conclusion is that our founding fathers placed freedom of religion **AND** prohibiting laws that prevent the free exercise thereof to be THE most important freedom we have...

"Simple logic."
-Admiral James T Kirk

Except, the Supreme Court disagreed with you, and your simple logic, in Reynolds vs US 1870.

The Court wrote "Laws are made for the government of actions, and while they cannot interfere with mere religious beliefs and opinions, they may with practices." The court also note that failure to make this distinction and "would be to make the professed doctrines of religious belief superior to the law of the land, and in effect to permit every citizen to become a law unto himself."

As in human sacrifice, all you passionate worshipers of Baal. Or crashing airliners into the World Trade Center on account of your sincerely held religious beliefs about infidels, green carpets and virgins.

This decision has been elaborated on by later Court Decisions, but never overturned. I find the modestly more complicated logic of the Supreme Court superior.

Um, no. I bet there were lots of training exercises under Cheney/Bush (hint: the recent one is called "Jade Helm 15" so I assume 14 others preceded it...).

The problem here is one of trust...

The majority of Americans simply do not trust Obama any more..

And because of that trust deficit, conspiracy theories are given a LOT more credence than would normally.

Michale

Hooooraaaaa!

Truer words were never spoken...

Michale

Except that no one was being spied upon without a court-ordered warrant.

What wrongdoing has Snowden uncovered?

Given the world we live in, there was a better way to do this than the way Snowden chose to operate.

Fair enough. That may not have been the argument you were making but it's a good argument to make...

You really think President Obama busted into a Pentagon meeting and said "here's where the enemy areas for your training drill will be!"

Of course not..

But if you think that Obama didn't have anything to do with Jade Helm 15, I have some swampland down here abouts I want to sell ya :D

Um, no. I bet there were lots of training exercises under Cheney/Bush (hint: the recent one is called "Jade Helm 15" so I assume 14 others preceded it...).

Where Liberal strongholds were designated "enemy areas"??? You'll have to prove that to me..

And the left didn't care, because the left doesn't go bonkers over such silliness.

Yea... The Left never accused Bush of working with MOSSAD in orchestrating 9/11.. :^/

Remember. AT night.. Not LAST night.. :D

It wasn't the left warning of black helicopters back in the 1990s, for instance...

It wasn't??? :D

Michale

You're putting words in my mouth. I've argued that the press is unique because it is the only PROFESSION mentioned at all in the Constitution. The whole "first amendment is most important" is a silly argument, in my mind. First, I think it was actually the third amendment when the bill of rights was proposed (originally 12 amendments, 2 didn't make the cut). Second, I think all the BOR amendments have equal weight and importance.

I mean, I get what you're saying, but what I'm saying is you didn't get that argument from me, that's all.

It was actually down to 9% but it has gone back up to 11%....

BZZZZT!!! Thanks for playing... here's a nice chart to see why you are completely wrong:

http://www.macrotrends.net/1377/u6-unemployment-rate

Note that steady trend downwards for all lines. U6 was 8-10% under Bush, that's another thing worth noting.

[11] -

You really think President Obama busted into a Pentagon meeting and said "here's where the enemy areas for your training drill will be!"

Hoooooo-kay.

[13] -

Um, no. I bet there were lots of training exercises under Cheney/Bush (hint: the recent one is called "Jade Helm 15" so I assume 14 others preceded it...). And the left didn't care, because the left doesn't go bonkers over such silliness. It wasn't the left warning of black helicopters back in the 1990s, for instance...

John From Censornati [15] -

The Huckster's campaign certainly is going to be interesting, that's for sure!

LizM [16] -

The conversation has begun a movement towards restoring the 4th Amendment and our civil right not to be spied upon by our government. That's Snowden's value, at least to me. Absent Snowden, we simply would not be where we are now.

-CW

Why??? :D

Michale

They both think they can do what they want and the rules don't apply to them...

Michale

Without commenting on the hero question, without Snowden, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. Surely that's of some value?

What has been the value of the conversation, thus far?

So, let me see if I have this straight...

Ya'all demonize Corporations when they act like Ferengi... Putting profits before principles & values......

AND...

Ya'all demonize christians when they DON'T act like Ferengi. When they put principles and values BEFORE profits...

Once again... Does not compute... :D

Michale

How would the Left react if President Dick Cheney had instigated a massive three month exercise, using military members disguised as civilians and declared Oregon and California as "enemy areas"???

I would imagine the reaction from the Left would be exactly the same...

Michale

"They can't go anywhere else. I'm the only caterer in town!!"
-The Flintstones

Michale

Ya gotta admit, that is totally moronic.. It's like using the IRS to discriminate against Tea Party groups...

There is an "Insurgent Pocket" in San Diego & Imperial Counties which is just... insulting as San Diego is my home town..

But, other than that....

https://img.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=https://img.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp-content/uploads/sites/33/2015/03/JADE-Helm-15.jpg&w=1484

Now, I don't think for a minute that the Obama Administration is "invading" Texas or Utah...

But it's just like our little boy King to designate his political enemies as "Enemy Areas"....

Strictly from a PR standpoint, it's moronic...

But it's just another indication that Obama was totally lying when he said there is no Red State or Blue State only a United States...

Obama has been one of the biggest divisive Presidents of our time..

Michale

That doesn't mean she didn't spear head and use the civil forfeiture laws in her area...

Would you like links?? :D

I remember you complaining about the U6 rate when it was like 17%... so are you ready to admit it's come down to 11% now? Heh.,

AS for Jade Helm, didn't it also declare parts of California "enemy territory"? Seriously, dude, drop this tinfoil-hat idiocy now, you'll thank me later....

Nope, Utah and Texas are "enemy areas"...

Ya gotta admit, that is totally moronic.. It's like using the IRS to discriminate against Tea Party groups...

On another note, what about that election in Britian, eh?? :D

First Israel now the UK... The Left get's all their hopes up and then reality sets in and Lefty leaders are resigning all over the place!! :D

Michale

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
-The First Amendment Of The Constitution Of The United States of America

A while ago, when CW was arguing for the freedom of the press, he made the point that Freedom Of The Press was part of the VERY first amendment... In the Bill Of Rights, freedom of the press comes first.

That, so the reasoning went, illustrates how important the founding fathers placed in freedom of the press..

I agree with that reasoning..

Now let's apply that reasoning to the First Amendment itself..

What do you notice about it??

Before Freedom Of The Press, before Freedom of Assembly, even before Free Speech...

The ONE thing mentioned first and foremost in our US Constitution...

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"

Using the established and valid reasoning, the only logical conclusion is that our founding fathers placed freedom of religion **AND** prohibiting laws that prevent the free exercise thereof to be THE most important freedom we have...

"Simple logic."
-Admiral James T Kirk

Michale

Without commenting on the hero question, without Snowden, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. Surely that's of some value?

Paula [5] -

Closed the tag where I thought you'd want it. Apologies if I got it wrong...

[4] -

EXCELLENT point vis à vis Snowden and Petraeus and relative penalties. Just had to say that...

Michale [6] -

Loretta Lynch must have been in high school when the whole asset forfeiture thing got going in the 1980s. Nice try, though. You can lay this at the feet of Nancy and Ronald Reagan. That's when it got going, after all.

On a somber note, I thought you'd agree with the Yeoman Rand honors...

As for Hillary, want to bet some quatloos as to how she'll do as opposed to Fiorina's chances? Heh. Didn't think so....

I remember you complaining about the U6 rate when it was like 17%... so are you ready to admit it's come down to 11% now? Heh.

As for McConnell's antics, the only ones on the receiving end of that were the hardliner Republicans, so I have no idea what you're talking aobut. McConnell used the same tactics as Reid to get something done in the face of Tea Party intransigence. Hard to pin that on Dems, really.

AS for Jade Helm, didn't it also declare parts of California "enemy territory"? Seriously, dude, drop this tinfoil-hat idiocy now, you'll thank me later....

-CW

Edward Snowden is a hero. Good God ...

I am actually torn on Snowden...

On the one hand, anyone that shows up Obama for the liar and hypocrite he is can't be all bad...

On the other hand, Snowden has done incalculable harm to our intelligence apparatus and made protecting this country, a Herculean task to begin with, all the more hard...

Michale

Do you know who has spearheaded civil forfeiture laws??

AG Loretta Lynch...

I'm just sayin'....

But finally, we have to end on a somber note. We know it's not political, but recently there was some sad news from the world of science fiction. Grace Lee Whitney, the actress who portrayed Yeoman Janice Rand on the original Star Trek television series, passed away this week. To anyone who grew up watching Star Trek reruns, this is indeed a loss. An astounding piece of trivia: Yeoman Rand only appeared in seven episodes (out of a total of over 70) of the original series, which has to be seen as a measure of her outsized impact. Live long and prosper, Yeoman Rand!

Here, here... Well said...

The only rationale for nominating Carly Fiorina (other than her gender) is that she knows the business world and knows the tech world. The inability to see the need to purchase all the correct domain names for her candidacy has to be seen as an epic failure on both counts. Indeed, we hope the site will be up for the entire election season, as a reminder of this failure.

But our Most Impressive Democrat Of The Week this week goes out to a Democratic candidate for president, Hillary Clinton.

And the only rationale for Hillary running is her gender..

She hasn't accomplished jack squat.. The ONLY reason she is a viable candidate is because of her gender and her name..

Unemployment down, again

Actually, when one considers ALL the factors rather than just cherry picking, unemployment has risen to about 11%..

McConnell follows Reid's playbook

No fun being on the receiving end of such antics, eh? :D

"A bunch of paranoid conspiracy theorists are quaking in their boots because they think the United States military is somehow going to invade Texas. Or declare martial law. Or something. The truth of the matter is the military is performing a training exercise called Jade Helm, with no nefarious intent whatsoever. But it sure seems to be bringing out the whack jobs down in Texas. I call upon every Texas Republican to repeat after me: 'The military is not invading Texas. It just ain't happening. To believe otherwise is sheer lunacy.' There -- that wasn't so hard, was it?"

The exercise has declared GOP areas as hostile territory...

Who is the moron in the Obama Administration who thought THAT would be a good idea??

I am guessing the moron is Obama himself..

Michale

I agree Edward Snowden was right. He should be pardoned and allowed to come home. If Petraus gets a slap on the wrist, Snowden can get a pardon. Snowden acted out of conscience whereas it appears Petraus was betrayed by his libido. But then Snowden defied the powers-that-be and Petraus was their poster-boy.

The repub refusal to protect veterans from predatory lenders is a perfect illustration of their true values.