We are on the same page as The End Of The World crap and on Gun Control..

So, there IS hope for ya, Bashi.... :D

Michale

Bullshit...

You wouldn't equivocate nuttin for Republicans... :D

I mean, seriously.. Your comment that started your participation in this subject was why I wasn't slamming the Bush Administration over their failure to support the troops wounded by Iraq's WMDs....

Let's face facts.. :D

Michale

A hell of a lot more than you would for democrats. Not that is saying much...

Yaawnn :D

Would you equivocate so desperately for Republicans?? :D

Michale

Argument settled..

Yawn. Why did you move the goal posts? "Possess" just not working for you?

But the simple fact is, there were WMDs in Iraq at the onset of Iraq War 2...

And that's all I said..

Bullshit. As quoted above you said Saddam
"possessed" WMD's. Then moved the goal posts. Pretty desperate there...

Not a misquote.. Maybe not a COMPLETE quote, but the latter answer has nothing to do with my point..

Were their WMDs in Iraq at the onset of Iraq War 2...

YES...

Argument settled..

The left, hysterical or otherwise, was not wrong. He did not possess WMD's in any militarily relevant manner nor did he have active production of WMD's. Read the WP article posted above. Lots of quotes and video from those pre-Iraq war 2 discussions. Trying to weasel a technicality ignores reality and history...

You sound like LD trying to claim that Obama didn't lie..

You can equivocate all you want..

But the simple fact is, there were WMDs in Iraq at the onset of Iraq War 2...

And that's all I said..

TS,

Again, is a car an a weapon of mass destruction? How about that pressure cooker?

Car?? Not as defined...

Pressure cooker?? Depends on the configuration.. :D

Would ya'all be equivocating like this in defense of Republicans??

Why not??

Michale

M - 59

No, not without making the term "weapon of mass destruction" meaningless.

Back when I actually worked with planning the response to Soviet and Soviet client use of chemical agents, the metric of effectiveness was weight per square kilometer of area at desired effect (kill, disable, deny etc.) (The fact I'm using the term Soviet will give alert readers an idea how long ago this was).

For nerve agents, the metric works out to (very) roughly 0.3 to 1.0 tons per square kilometer. If you spray it from an airplane, and the weather is right. In terms of payload on hard point, this is bumping up to small tactical nuke effectiveness, so the moniker of Weapon of Mass Destruction makes sense. Artillery shells are much less efficient, and so is ballistic missile delivery. A 155 shell might contain, at most, around 15 pounds of nerve agent. That's 40-130 shells, lower limit, perfect pattern, to get to the mass destruction metric. Fully functional shells. Not degraded shells, certainly not parts repurposed from junk.

Saddam's chemical weapons had degraded into a toxic waste dump. Toxic waste can be weaponized, but not to a level of genuine Military Grade weapon of mass destruction. What you get is just another another nasty IED. Small dirty bomb, and most dirty when you handle it, probably unknowingly. Again, is a car an a weapon of mass destruction? How about that pressure cooker?

How much lipstick are you willing to put on your pig? It's not going to win the contest. At least not around here.

Make that a massive Whopper with Cheese Bazi!

Misquote. Here is the full text: Were there WMD's in Iraq. Yes. Did Saddam Hussein possess them in any practical since? Probably not.

So much for Democrat's claim that Saddam didn't possess any WMDs....

Yet, here we are...

The left, hysterical or otherwise, was not wrong. He did not possess WMD's in any militarily relevant manner nor did he have active production of WMD's. Read the WP article posted above. Lots of quotes and video from those pre-Iraq war 2 discussions. Trying to weasel a technicality ignores reality and history...

Bashi: "Were there WMD's in Iraq. Yes."

Yer right..

It does sound settled..

Now do you want to discuss the lameness of the Bush Administration's actions?? :D

Won't really be much of a discussion because anything you say in this regard, I would likely agree with..

But, feel free... :D

Michale

No consolation to the soldiers who were injured..

Look, you can equivocate all you want.. You are even correct in your equivocation..

But ask yourself two questions..

Were their WMDs in Iraq at the onset of Iraq War 2???

Would you equivocate so much to protect Republicans??

The answers are clear..

Yes...

No....

Michale

Four Pinocchios. A whopper of misinformation...

Once we settle this point

Sounds settled to me.

Three documented repurposed chemical munitions out of thousands of IED encountered. That is a tiny fraction. None of the three would considered a military grade weapon of mass destruction. US legal code grade WOMD? Yes, but a pressure cooker with gunpowder meets that legal standard? WTF? You go to war for a decade over a pressure cooker?

I have no criticism of that fact because it wasn't relevant to the point of discussion..

The point being that, at the time, Saddam DID possess WMDs...

Once we settle this point, I would be happy to comment on the lameness of the Bush Administration's actions..

Michale

Iraq war 2 was about active programs not remnants of the Iran/Iraq war that were unaccounted for...

Were there WMD's in Iraq. Yes. Did Saddam Hussein possess them in any practical since? Probably not.

The Washington Post puts your latest conservative bandwagon issue at four Pinocchios. A whopper of misinformation...

Though it is interesting that you have no criticism of the pentagon under Bush suppressing the issue to the point of not properly taking care of the troops who were exposed to chemical agents. If Obama had done it, we would have had twenty posts with lots bold quotes practically declaring the end of the world. What a difference a "D" in front makes, eh?

Can we at least agree on that fact???

Michale

The article cited at least 3 times..

Regardless of the nitpicking, the over all point is still valid..

At the time of Iraq War 2, Saddam Hussein possessed WMDs, despite Demcorats whining to this very day that there were no WMDs in Iraq...

Michale

You have a tendency to paraphrase in a way that misleads.

Example: You say: "The article also said that, while the found WMDs were old and gutted they were still a threat and many HAD been re-purposed for use..."

Quote from Chivers:

"But nearly a decade of wartime experience showed that old Iraqi chemical munitions often remained dangerous when repurposed for local attacks in makeshift bombs, as insurgents did starting by 2004."

Often remained dangerous when repurposed does not equate with often repurposed.

How often were repurposed chemical munitions actually encountered as IEDs?

Quoting Chivers: "Almost all of the bombs were made with conventional ordnance or homemade explosives. Here and there, among the others, were bombs made from chemical arms."

Here and there equates with rare.

How serious a threat were abandoned or repurposed munitions as weapons of mass destruction?

Quoting Chivers: "All had been manufactured before 1991, participants said. Filthy, rusty or corroded, a large fraction of them could not be readily identified as chemical weapons at all. Some were empty, though many of them still contained potent mustard agent or residual sarin. Most could not have been used as designed, and when they ruptured dispersed the chemical agents over a limited area, according to those who collected the majority of them."

In other words, another nasty IED, a terror weapon, but not a weapon of mass destruction. A car bomb is an effective terror weapon too, but not a weapon of mass destruction.

You write "Did Saddam Hussein have WMDs..

The answer is an unequivocal, uncontested and inarguable... YES..."

Well, you might think so, but that's not how Chivers sees it.

Chiver's again: "In case after case, participants said, analysis of these warheads and shells reaffirmed intelligence failures. First, the American government did not find what it had been looking for at the war’s outset, then it failed to prepare its troops and medical corps for the aged weapons it did find."

Which brings us back to the articles lede:

"The United States had gone to war declaring it must destroy an active weapons of mass destruction program. Instead, American troops gradually found and ultimately suffered from the remnants of long-abandoned programs, built in close collaboration with the West."

That's the scandal Chivers (and others) have put out for public inspection.

Here is the messaging on Ebola that is coming from the Obama Administration..

"You can't get Ebola riding on a bus.. But if you have Ebola, you shouldn't ride on the bus because you might transmit it to someone else."

uh.... er.... OK....

Take a few minutes to wrap your brain around that.....

Michale

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/obama-hold-ebola-meeting-cabinet_816326.html

Obama actually cancelled a fund raising trip to address the Ebola crisis..

Damn!! This MUST be serious if Obama is cancelling fundraising...

If Obama cancels any of his tee-times, I guess it's time to head for the hills as it must be the End Of Days....

Michale

My gods, is there NOTHING that Democrats do that is not influenced by their own political agenda???

Democrats are afraid to even fart before the upcoming mid-terms...

Michale

Regardless, the simple fact is this..

Did Saddam Hussein have WMDs..

The answer is an unequivocal, uncontested and inarguable... YES...

Saddam Hussein DID have WMDs at the time of the 2nd Iraq War...

The meme that there were no WMDs in Iraq is as false and as politically motivated as the Bush Lied meme...

Michale

Read 'em and weep....

It doesn't say anything I haven't been saying for the last few years..

Michale

You have a tendency to avoid quotes that don't help your case...

The article also said that, while the found WMDs were old and gutted they were still a threat and many HAD been re-purposed for use...

This is leading from the front, even if Obama chose to be coy about it.

If true, then that makes the debacle that is Libya in the here and now all the more indication of Obama incompetence.. :D

I still don't understand how one can label Libya a success and Iraq a failure... The only thing that explains it is Derangement Syndrome..

Against Bush and for Obama... :D

Michale

The NYT article is excellent, but I think you missed the lede. Here it is:

"The United States had gone to war declaring it must destroy an active weapons of mass destruction program. Instead, American troops gradually found and ultimately suffered from the remnants of long-abandoned programs, built in close collaboration with the West."

So much for your argument, but I love the Homer Simpson quote :D

Regarding 44)

I cobbled together my estimate of NATO munitions dropped in Libya sometime in late in 2011. After revisiting it, I decided fresh Google search might turn something new. It did, from the Royal Aerospace Society.

http://aerosociety.com/Assets/Docs/Publications/SpecialistPapers/LibyaSpecialistPaperFinal.pdf

Well worth a read.

Key conclusions:

7600 precision munitions were delivered, 3600 laser guided, 3000 GPS. Delivered over 26,000 combat sorties, 25000 fixed wing, 400 helicopter, 500 UAV.

Most of this was hauled by just 127 non-USA operated fighter bombers.

That said, the paper box highlights this:

"Though the USA adopted an ostensibly limited involvement in Libya, it in fact provided considerable and arguably crucial support to the campaign. The precursor to the NATO led Operation UNIFIED PROTECTOR was the American dominated Operation ODYSSEY DAWN."

This is leading from the front, even if Obama chose to be coy about it.

And she said, “Well, Mr. President, do you want your money in small bills or large bills.”

Gotta give Romney credit..

THAT was funny!! :D

Michale

Are you REALLY going to mock the GOP for FEAR MONGERING??

Shirley, you jest...

The Hysterical Left has made fear-mongering part of their central campaign for quite a while now..

Do I *really* have to go over all the "THE SKY IS FALLING THE SKY IS FALLING THE END OF THE WORLD IS NIGH!!! REPENT!!! REPENT!!! AND SEND ALL YOUR MONEY TO DEMOCRATS SO THE MESSIAH MAY SAVE US ALL!!!!" crap that we have heard from the Left adnasuem for the last decade or so???

If ya'all want to stamp out fear-mongering in politics, my I respectfully suggest that ya'all clean yer own house first??

Here's the thing about Ebola... Obama, The Messiah claimed it was "highly unlikely" that Ebola would ever been seen in the US at all...

He was wrong...

Why should we believe that he is right when he says it's no big deal and no reason to panic??

Couldn't he be wrong again??

Michale

So much for Democrat's claim that Saddam didn't possess any WMDs....

I would think the Hysterical Left would get tired of being wrong..

Yet, here we are...

"Mr Simpson, you can't put a price tag on your family's safety!!!"
"I wouldn't have thought so either... Yet, here we are"
-The Simpsons

:D

Michale

Maturity comes to some places faster than others..

When you have the kinds AND the quantity of uncivilized behavior that we see from Islam with Christians, THEN you will have a point of comparison..

The simple fact is, Islam is right now where Christianity was a thousand years ago...

The evidence to support this conclusion is simply too overwhelming to ignore..

How long would YOU have been willing to keep an occupying force in Iraq?

As long as is necessary to accomplish the mission and not a day longer...

At the time, Pentagon rules of thumb suggested an initial occupation force of about half a million troops would be about right.

At which time??? WWII??? The count that many had stated at the time Obama washed his hands of Iraq was around 10K...

That would be about right...

Michale

Looks like Democrats have conceded Kentucky...

Who on Earth could have predicted this!!!!????

Oh.. Wait... :D

Michale

We'll drop a few hundred thousand bombs on a few hundred thousand sorties,

For the record, NATO claims it flew approximately 26,000 sorties over Libya, 42% of which were combat sorties = 10600 combat sorties. About 6000 targets were damaged.

I've been unable to find an definitive number of "bombs" actually dropped. My own analysis of the open literature is that the number of munitions dropped per strike sortie ranged from about 1.9 to 0.3 with some participants tending to drop a lot more than others per sortie. About half the strike sorties seem to have nothing, aircraft typically returned with what they didn't drop. France flew about 35% of all the sorties and seems to have dropped the least per sortie. The US committed about 100 cruise missiles.

Given the high accuracy and lethality of the smart weapons used, my personal best guesstimate is in the range of 8,000-10,000 leaning towards the lower figure. Widely pimped estimates of 40,000 bombs dropped is just 10,000 multiplied by 4 hard points per aircraft and utterly bogus. Another piece of internet BS that just drives me nuts!

That's about the same as my experience, although I didn't buy a hat. I may have happened by a few months earlier: there was still a lot of The Wall being chipped away by tourists like us when I got there.

Coincidentally, I also saw The Wall from Pink Floyd for the first time on the same trip.

Not all of them. There are credible reports of Christians burning accused witches in Kenya.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/18/african-children-denounce_n_324943.html.

Bush I wisely elected not to occupy Iraq after tossing Saddam out of Kuwait. Saddam retained his grip over most of Iraq, save for the Kurdish North, until Bush II decided to upset the applecart. We were not welcomed as dictators in Iraq. Saddam and the Baathist Party were brutal dictators to be sure, but there was no regional chaos because they had the knowledge, connections and means to govern their own country.

How long would YOU have been willing to keep an occupying force in Iraq? How many tours of duty should a soldier or marine serve in Iraq? How many casualties were you willing to take? Should the army be expanded to take on the long term burden? If so, by how much. At the time, Pentagon rules of thumb suggested an initial occupation force of about half a million troops would be about right. Would you be willing to reintroduce the draft?

In essence, Obama was more concerned about his legacy than he was concerned for what's best for the country....

THAT is the only reason we got out of Iraq...

How do I know this to be true??

Because 3 of his most trusted advisers said so...

Michale

Because Iraq 1 was done right for the limited objectives that were laid down... Just like, if you look at ONLY the objective laid down, Libya was a smashing success...

If the goal is to degrade ISIS so that regional forces can handle the rest, the IRAQ 1 is the perfect template to follow..

But, inadvertently, I am sure, :D you prove my point for me..

We did Iraq 1 and then followed your advice to let local forces handle the rest..

It didn't work..

So, we had to go in again, put American troops in theater to do it all over again..

Why do you think that letting local forces handle things will work now when it has NEVER worked in the past???

Let me repeat that..

HAS NEVER WORKED IN THE PAST...

The key is not the JUST the military battles.. The key is what the military does AFTER the battles are won and the enemy is defeated..

Bush's Iraq II was a smashing success both in the war itself and in the aftermath...

But then Obama threw away that victory by totally washing his hands of Iraq too soon to satisfy political and ideological demands....

And that's why we have to go back...

Simple logic....

Michale

They don't burn witches any more...

I smell a red herring.

No.. What you smell is a logical and rational argument that violates Democrat Ideological dogma...

But it's amazing how much the smell is similar, no? :D

Michale

The 1.6 B Muslims are subdivided into numerous sects and ethnicities that have been fightings each other for centuries. The world's 2.2 B Christians are also fractured into sects which have fought amongst each other and with the various Muslim branches, also for centuries. There is no uniform world religion that can control its membership to the ends of the Earth, anymore than there is omnipotent world government. I smell a red herring.

It will go the Libya way...

We'll drop a few hundred thousand bombs on a few hundred thousand sorties, realize it's going to take ground troops to do it right, wash our hands of the region and say, "Eh, we tried..."

OR....

It will go the Iraq I way...

We drop a few hundred thousand bombs and realize that, if we want it done right, we're going to have to do it ourselves...

I see no other possibility...

Michale

I am at a loss to understand how 30,000 fanatics can hold sway over a religion that has 1.6 billion followers???

Surely if the 1.6 billion feels a certain way that is, ALLEGFEDLY, diametrically opposed to the way the 30,000 feel, that 30,000 wouldn't feel that way for any length of time..

70-80 years ago, the KKK held sway in America and was able to influence quite a bit... Over a period of decades, American society began to make it clear that such actions are not acceptable in a civilized society and today the KKK is a fringe group full of crackpots...

And, at THAT time we're talking barely over a hundred million people against a group of fanatics 4-5 million strong TOPS.....

Surely a population of over a billion and a half can make it clear to the violent minority of 30K that their actions will not be tolerated..

IF...

If that billion and a half people are actually against such violent actions...

You see where I am going with this???

Michale

"I hate it when she does that...."
-Goose, TOP GUN

:D

This is getting long, but I'll close with this. Progress is going to take a lot time. The US needs a T.E. Lawrence right now, not a Stormin' Norman.

We HAVE had a TE Lawrence for about 6 years and things in the MidEast are worse than ever before....

We need another Iraq War I with a long term commitment ala the aftermath of WWII...

Or we could just let the savages fight themselves to death and go in and pick up the pieces afterwards...

The problem with THAT idea is that things like that have a way of drawing in the periphery...

Michale

Greg Orman??? An Independent???

Yea... And monkees fly outta my butt too... :^/

Michale

"Islamic terrorists comprise a very very VERY small percentage of muslims.. With the terrorists being outnumberd 50-1, if "locals" could defeat the IS they would have eliminated Islamic terrorism a long time ago..."

Ah, once again, you and I have stumbled into a discussion!

Terrorists are indeed a very tiny percentage of muslims. Only very tiny percentage of the locals are ISIS fighters. Front line reporters indicate a small percentage of ISIS fighters are true ISIS doctrine believers, a small percentage are adventurers. Most ISIS fighters are sympathetic Sunni mercenaries paid an excellent salary (by local standard, which include fringe benefits going to their families. Where is the money to pay for this coming from? That's a good question, but lets skip it for now.

Given that situation, ISIS can be defeated with a small number of locals, especially if you can pay them the going rate, and tilt the tactical balance in their favor with air power and other appropriate high tech leverages.

Most of the locals will be bystanders, but they will pick sides. ISIS is so crazy brutal, it's reasonable to believe that bulk allegiance will shift away from them if a local, less extreme fighting force looks viable. The other locals may not be entirely savory by US standards, but if not rip roaran' crazy, that's an improvement worth implementing. This was basically the strategy used in Anbar Province 2005, less American ground combat troops. And Libya, which you don't think much of.

It is my opinion that the US needs to accept that Iraq is broken beyond repair (the Obama administration doesn't seem to agree with me). Stabilize the Shiite and Kurdish regions, and expect them to push into push into Sunni regions. All the while, punish the ISIS combat units, and degrade their economic ability to pay their troops.
If their is one thing that history shows, mercenaries change sides.

This is getting long, but I'll close with this. Progress is going to take a lot time. The US needs a T.E. Lawrence right now, not a Stormin' Norman.

Really???

So, what you are saying is that one shouldn't look at ONE specific cause of a certain stat, but rather consider other possibilities as the cause of the stat... :D

OK, I can agree with that as well... :D

The fact that facts are often murky, and people have different perceptions of costs and benefits make the problem difficult, but that's no excuse for not trying to hammer out a consensus which can drive a plan of action.

I completely and unequivocally agree....

A group needs to agree on exactly what the problem is BEFORE they can hammer out a solution as to how to fix it..

Couldn't agree more.... :D

Michale....

:D, no I just don't believe in embarking on glorious lost causes when there are practical alternatives offering better odds. Sound decision making boils down to cost benefit analysis. The fact that facts are often murky, and people have different perceptions of costs and benefits make the problem difficult, but that's no excuse for not trying to hammer out a consensus which can drive a plan of action.

I read that article in your link and it is wholly non-serious, on any level.

It' hardly worthy of response, much less of warranting a serious discussion.

How in the hell did this clown get elected POTUS???

What an undemanding society we have become, eh? :^/ All we want is a President who can do flowery uplifting speeches and nothing esle..

Michale

WOW.. How bad did I mess THAT up!! :D

Allow me to rephrase..

Pretend that the POTUS is a Republican..... NOW is there any culpability or responsibility by the administration?? :D

Sorry about that.. It's what I get for posting at work.. :D

Michale

So, you are an isolationist?? :D

Only the locals can defeat ISIS, because ISIS is made up of locals. It's multifaceted civil war. We can tip the balance against ISIS and let the locals exterminate the movement. What we can't do is dictate what rises up from the political vacuum, we can just hope the victors are less crazy and dangerous than ISIS. Since ISIS appears 3 sigma crazy, that's a good bet IMHO. But, it's a bet.

Locals CAN'T defeat the IS. Islamic terrorists comprise a very very VERY small percentage of muslims.. With the terrorists being outnumberd 50-1, if "locals" could defeat the IS they would have eliminated Islamic terrorism a long time ago...

As long as Islam is where Christianity is a thousand years ago, "locals" will always be part of the problem and not part of the solution..

For what? T

Let me rephrase...

Pretend that the POTUS... NOW is there any culpability or responsibility by the administration?? :D

If you are searching for what to say, just recall all the accusations against the Bush Administration after Katrina...

Michale

For what? The virus? Evolution? Viral reservoirs? Impoverished countries with rudimentary and underfunded public health care systems and appalling sanitation systems? For airline travel? For a disease with a latent period? For a health worker who didn't didn't follow procedure and ask a rather important question? The chain is long.

Accidents are almost always a chain of mistakes and misfortunes. Focusing only on the parts peripherally controlled by the Admin makes for nice political noise, but doesn't help fix what's broken.

"If you do things half-assed, you get a Libya.."

and if you use your whole ass, you get the Iraq occupation experience all over again plus a Syrian version. ISIS gets knocked down, but it doesn't get knocked out It just festers, waiting for the US to leave and the governments we create as bizzaro versions of our own to fall. Make no mistake, the US will eventually leave, given the endless stream of money in, and casualties out. We've seen this movie and the sequels.

What you're proposing is the strategic version of an old joke.

ISIS holds its hand up. "Hey cowboy, is your fist fast enough to hit my hand." The cowboy winds up, swings, ISIS withdraws its hand, and the cowboy breaks his knuckles on the wall. The dazed cowboy thinks quickly. Holds his good hand in front of his face, he challenges ISIS to to take a swing at it. The joke's funny because you can see where its going. A US led offensive isn't funny because you can see where its going.

Only the locals can defeat ISIS, because ISIS is made up of locals. It's multifaceted civil war. We can tip the balance against ISIS and let the locals exterminate the movement. What we can't do is dictate what rises up from the political vacuum, we can just hope the victors are less crazy and dangerous than ISIS. Since ISIS appears 3 sigma crazy, that's a good bet IMHO. But, it's a bet.

Any culpability or responsibility from the administration??

Michale

A fascinating perspective on shoddy, hysterical Media coverage of Ebola in Africa and America, originally broadcast by On the Media. Available as a short podcast:

http://www.onthemedia.org/story/viral-narratives/

There name for what we are seeing, hearing and all too often believing is: "The Outbreak Narrative." You'll recognize it in popular books and movies from the 1990s on.

There's a well established process for obtaining an MS degree. The candidate has a thesis adviser who directs the process, and and a committee that reviews progress and ultimately grills the candidate about the product. They may demand revisions.

Why was nobody in the process checking Walsh's references? They should be familiar with the literature. It seems to me that Walsh isn't the only problem. Is this an isolated incident, or does the Army War College have a diploma mill problem?

Did you hit my car?
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2014/10/10/did-hit-my-car/?intcmp=features

I know ya'all would rather flay yerselves, soak in brine and then light yerselves on fire rather than read something from Fox News...

But resist the urge to puke and read the above.. I think it's a great (and sad) commentary on the society we have...

Michale

Bring back Stormin' Norman.. :D

Seriously, that is the best way to degrade and destroy the IS.. A total commitment of all facets of US military force..

If you do things half-assed, you get a Libya..

The best approach is to use Iraq War I as a template.. A massive build-up of offensive forces in the Theater of OPeration and then steamroll thru the region...

How long did Iraq War I take?? A couple months..

As I mentioned before, US ground troops in the region are inevitable.. But if the current administration does it piecemeal, a little here, a little there, we're going to be in the region for years...

Michale

Just bring them on - I'd like to see some records broken this time around!

Speaking of which, what do you think is the most effective way to go about degrading and ultimately eliminating IS? I mean, given all of the mistakes of the last 13 years or so and that we are where we are, as they say, what role should the US be playing in all of this?

I'm in training.... :D

Michale

Did members of terrorist group cross Mexican border? Answer remains unclear
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2014/10/10/243072_did-members-of-terrorist-group.html?rh=1

So much for your BS statement from DHS.....

Members of a terrorist group WERE apprehended crossing Obama's Open Border.....

You were wrong.... AGAIN...

I was right... AGAIN....

"Oh lord it's hard to be humble...."

:D

Michale

So much for ya'alls hopes that Obama's Iraq war will be a "good war"....

I saids it befores and I'll says it agains...

Obama has absolutely ZERO credibility in the region...

Michale

What did I tell ya'all???

In TOP, US Ground Troops are inevitable...

Michale

I have to say, I completely agree.. Part of Biden's charm is that, more often than not, he tells it like it is, politics be damned...

I like that.. :D

Reminds me of me.. :D

Michale

Who would you have picked? Biden for silly photo ops with ice cream?

Oh, I would have picked Biden, alright. But, not for that.

This is one week (out of 323 weeks) when Biden has actually earned a MDDOTW award - for apologizing to Turkey (and other so-called allies in the region) for speaking the truth instead of speaking more of the truth and threatening the initiation of a process to revoke its NATO membership (and other special treatment in the region).

Do you suppose Turkey is counting on the fact that it will be rescued when IS crosses its border. That seems obvious but, it shouldn't be a foregone conclusion.

Yet, Obama and the Democrats are completely blameless...

Contrast that to what ya'all would be saying if we had a GOP POTUS...

It's mind-boggling... :D

Michale

Yea??

Says who???

Michale

Humanity linked by air travel,
Failed states in Africa,
Ebola outbreak in the failed African states, Mediocre US science education,
Basic American ignorance of biology,
American distrust of government,
A public health screw up in Texas,
One Ebola death in Texas,
Internet Gossip,
Public Fear of Africa and Africans,
US Election cycle,
Deep US public need for compelling entertainment
Profit motive>>>>>>>

Ebola panic in the USA

The last time this country had a huge boon in prosperity was under a GOP Congress....

Michale

By ya'all's own admission, Democrats don't have "effective" control of the Senate so they can't get anything done, anyways...

So, why not let Republicans get things done in this country??

It's obvious that they can't do worse than Democrats have done...

Michale

But I know that no one here will concede that because of the whole "Nothing Bad Has Ever Happened Because Of Democrats And Their Policies" schtick that permeates the air around here...

Unfortunately, the last "laugh" may come at the expense of thousands of dead Americans thanx to Democrats and their Open Border policy...

Michale

Apparently yer not up on current events.. :D

Pat Roberts is in the lead now that Kansasians have seen the "independence" of Orman.. And, by "independence" I mean the totally inane mindset that won't commit to ANY position ...

I am also constrained to point out that Kansas has sent a Republican to the Senate since 1930...

The idea that this will change because of some faux independent is not compelling..

But, I do find it fascinating that orman wants to pretend to be an Independent..

Everyone wants to be like Mike... :D

Michale

I considered Leon Panetta, but haven't actually read his book, so I'm reserving judgment on that one.

Who would you have picked? Biden for silly photo ops with ice cream? (the late night shows had a big laugh over that one yesterday, but I didn't deign to notice, personally...)

:-)

dsws -

Everyone gets their own virtual "Golden Backbone" -- no atoms are involved, really, just photons and electrons!

:-)

If you really want, I'll print you out a certificate... would that make you feel better?

As for the Berlin Wall, I visited Berlin the only time in my life in 1990 (I believe, I'm doing that from memory), one year after The Wall came down.

There were lots of sad East Germans selling whatever they had, at Checkpoint Charlie (you could buy a full officer's uniform from the Red Army, for a few bucks, complete with medals). I bought one of those ear-flap military winter hats (black, fake fur) with a Soviet emblem (still have it, keeps the ears super warm). But I also bought a bunch of chunks of The Wall for pennies, and sent most of them out as Xmas presents to all the youngest members of my family that year (with the probably-ignored message: "keep this -- it is part of history!").

The truly cool part was the East Germans who got into the whole capitalist thing and were renting hammers and chisels out, in the few parts of the city where sections of The Wall still stood. So I can now say that, for a few bucks, I was able to personally chip away at The Wall, and personally helped the dismantling of it. I still have the paint-encrusted chips, on my desk as a souvenir.

So... maybe I deserve some sort of "tourist class" award? I dunno...

:-)

Hawk Owl -

Yeah, I know what you mean. It's always an easy shot to take on the MSM, but in this case I think it's fully deserved. I try to convince myself "maybe it'll raise awareness, if an actual outbreak happens -- it'll be a good test run," but then again, I think it's just "it sells papers" at heart.

Sigh.

-CW

I am sure that was an excellent choice for MDDOTW. :)

Really?