"Of course, you can PROVE that, right?? Oh that's right, I forgot. You were absent the day they taught LAW at Law School."
-Tom Cruise, A FEW GOOD MEN

:D

Michale

Oh what bullshit...

At least Bush showed LEADERSHIP and didn't give a whit about politics when the safety of the country was at stake..

Bush went against his own Party to do what was right for the country...

THAT is leadership..

Compare that to Obama who doesn't take a dump before holding his finger up to see which way the political winds are blowing..

Face it, Yo Yo... Obama is an Edsel... Pure and simple...

Michale

...

Stupid is as stupid does.

Was that Chelsea Clinton!!????

i don't think so, but it is a pretty fracking awesome video.

JL

Now THERE is a leader.... A man of honor and integrity...

Granted, he is still a politician, but still....

Michale

EXACTLY!!! You are dead on ballz accurate!!!

I completely and utterly ignore race in my day to day activities.

It's what people who are NOT RACIST do...

The racists are the people who are ALL ABOUT race.. Who care NOTHING about character or integrity.. Those people care ONLY about the color of the skin...

You have hit the nail dead on the head...

Non racist don't think about race at all..

Racists think ONLY about race and nothing else..

We completely agree... :D

Michale

You've been hanging around JFC too long...

You are beginning to sound just like him..

In your own little world and making absolutely no sense whatsoever... :D

Michale

"YAWN"

Not everyone has such a racist outlook as the Hysterical Left...

Having said that, I think the cartoon is hilarious! :D

Michale

I tell ya, Obama must be thinking the gods are out to get him, eh???

Michale

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/219418-cummings-on-secret-service-director-i-think-this-lady-has-to-go

Democrats and their war on women.. Jeeesh... :D

Michale

Point to ONE bona fide factual instance of racism committed by Republican leadership in Obama's entire presidency..

Oh, and provide the facts to support the claim.. No "code words", no innuendo, no hearsay, no rumor...

FACT....

Unimpeachable, unequivocal, inarguable, dead on ballz accurate FACT...

Shirley you can do at least THAT, right??

A thousand quatloos says ya can't.... :D

Michale

Only ONE thing missing..

Facts....

Give me ONE fact that race played a part in Ferguson..

Not code words, not supposition, not fantasy..

ONE FACT that you can point to a say, "See!! That PROVES it was racism"...

You can't do that, because no such fact exists...

So, you can launch into all the pretty speeches you want to. You can call me names, you can damn the Right Wing to hell..

But what you simply CAN'T do is claim that race had anything to do with Sanford or Ferguson...

Because you have NO FACTS to back it up...

Michale

See this is the thing Michale, I know that you can't understand Race and racism in America. This much is obvious. Your racism set so deep inside your brain that it reaches out for anything in order to justify itself.

Take Ferguson. Race is hugely important to understanding the context of the events there. Just like it is to understanding American history. This is not left wing propaganda, this is the reality we live in. However if you willfully ignore race, then sure we can see how you twisted your brain arrive at that point. That doesn't make it better however, it just means you had to erase a history that goes back to 1619 in order to justify your position that Michael Brown was a "good kill." A history of Emmett Till and lynching and constant unremitting violence by whites upon black males.

History doesn't bother me the way it does you. I don't need to edit it, I don't need to deny it, it's just there and it informs my world view. The fact that white southerners were a key part of the new deal coaltion is just fact. Just like how they are a key part of the current Republican position. It tells us how we got from point A to point B.

And it further informs why you are so desperate to keep the history of the south "democratic" so to speak. Acknowledging the mere fact that Alabama votes Republican these days is beyond you.

Which just goes to show you, I am most certainly not off the liberal deep end of history, go read some Howard Zinn if you want a taste of that. And it's also not my problem that conservative thought actively needs false history in order to justify myself. The problem isn't history, or my facts. the problem is that your political ideology cannot be reconciled to an accurate view of history. Which is really too bad.

Might have headed this off at the pass for instance.

http://online.wsj.com/articles/sam-brownbacks-tax-cut-push-puts-kansas-out-on-its-own-1402448126

Stupid is as stupid does.

To paraphrase Toby Keith...

"How Do You Like Him Now??"

:D

Michale

Could be.. It WAS New Jersey, after all.. :D

Michale

Perhaps because of the drugs he was on ...? :)

Fair enough. I respect you for this.

He swore up and down that the song dealt with a robot takeover of a California hotel that transported guests to another dimension.

Holy interplanetary Don Henley, Batman!

Touche...

I should clarify and say that I don't have any kind of agenda posting here in Weigantia, beyond having fun discussions, intense debates and camaraderie.. :D

I am kinda partial to Hotel California.. :D

NNnnnnoooooooo!!!! *smashes radio into thousands of bits*

Welcome to the Hotel California...
Such a lovely place... Such a lovely face...
Plenty of room at the Hotel California...
Any time of year, you can find it here...

:D hehehehehehehe

It's funny.. I knew a guy in high school in Red Bank, New Jersey...

He swore up and down that the song dealt with a robot takeover of a California hotel that transported guests to another dimension...

I tried to convince him that it was all about drug addiction, but he wasn't buying..

:D

Michale

Facts are good things. For example, knowing that if you let go of a book, it will fall down. They're much more useful, however, when you can put them into an "agenda" though.

For instance an "agenda" about gravity where Force = mass * acceleration or F=ma.

Acceleration is 9.8 m/s^2.

Using this "agenda" about gravity, I can tell you with exactly how much force an object will impact the ground.

Now, of course, this "agenda" needed to be updated a bit when relativistic mechanics came along and offered an entirely new paradigm shift, but it is still quite a useful "agenda".

I am kinda partial to Hotel California.. :D

NNnnnnoooooooo!!!! *smashes radio into thousands of bits*

-David

Facts are good things. For example, knowing that if you let go of a book, it will fall down. They're much more useful, however, when you can put them into an "agenda" though.

For instance an "agenda" about gravity where Force = mass * acceleration or F=ma.

Acceleration is 9.8 m/s^2.

Using this "agenda" about gravity, I can tell you with exactly how much force an object will impact the ground.

Now, of course, this "agenda" needed to be updated a bit when relativistic mechanics came along and offered an entirely new paradigm shift, but it is still quite a useful "agenda".

I am kinda partial to Hotel California.. :D

NNnnnnoooooooo!!!! *smashes radio into thousands of bits*

-David

The "truth"?

"Archaeology is the search for FACTS, not truth. If it's 'truth' you're after, Professor Tyree's Philosophy class is right down the hall.."
-Indiana Jones

Do I really have to explain this? (hint: Desparado)

One of the best songs ever!!! :D

I am kinda partial to Hotel California.. :D

Definition of a "statesman": A dead politician.

We need more statesmen.

Can't argue with the logic..

Ever read TERM LIMITS?? :D

Michale

Definition of a "statesman": A dead politician.

We need more statesmen.

LOL ... now you're really trying to get my goat!!!

Do I really have to explain this? (hint: Desparado)

:)

-David

What would you call your version then, Michale?

The "truth"?

My actions really don't have a point beyond imparting and soaking up knowledge and wisdom.

Everyone has an agenda, Michale. Whether you know about it or not.

If we didn't, we wouldn't get so worked up. It is amusing watching people try to claim the mantle of objectivity though. Liberals, conservatives, etc.

I don't think there's anything wrong with having an "agenda". I have an agenda. My agenda, for example, is democracy and a working economy.

-David

http://youtu.be/-77cUxba-aA

Was that Chelsea Clinton!!????

Michale

I would just add that Michale likes the Eagles and thinks Biden is okay. That says a lot about him and it's all good.

How can anyone NOT like The Eagles?? :D

Michale

Sometimes people don't understand why I like him. It's pretty easy though. He likes Star Trek. He cares about his family. He knows a lot about IT and things like security systems. He likes beer. He likes CW.

I heard "beer" and then what?? :D

Seriously, though.. Throughout my entire online experience, from FIDO thru USENET and now in blogging, there has always been debate on exactly what my motives are.. And I have always answered the same. There is no hidden agenda, no ulterior motives.. There is nothing to "get"... I am what I am. Warts and all.. :D

Michale

Getting to people probably is the point. So you got me there.

With the utmost respect to David, it really isn't the point..

My actions really don't have a point beyond imparting and soaking up knowledge and wisdom...

If people are provoked into outrageous acts of verbal violence, well.. That's on them, isn't it??

But he still can't grok even basic history.

You mean I can't grok YOUR version of basic history... That's your problem, YoYo.. You want your own facts, your own history to rule the debate..

But, as I have amply proven beyond any doubt, your facts are not THE facts.. YOUR "facts" are that Ferguson and Sanford was all about racism. THE facts, the REAL facts, prove just the opposite.. That neither had ANYTHING to do with racism..

Your history is Left Winger sanitized version where Democrats are awesome and anything Right Wing is the epitome of ultimate evil... YOUR history shows that the KKK was actually a product of the Right, but they just pretended to be Democrats.. The REAL history shows that the Democratic Party WAS the KKK....

It's like a Vulcan talking with a Ferengi without the benefit of a Universal Translator..

There simply is absolutely NO common frame of reference.. :D

Michale

http://youtu.be/-77cUxba-aA

But he still can't grok even basic history.

That was very nicely stated.

I would just add that Michale likes the Eagles and thinks Biden is okay. That says a lot about him and it's all good.

YYAssyrian, I know Michale can get under people's skin but he's certainly not stupid.

Have you ever thought maybe getting to people is the point?

Now I can't speak for Michale but I can tell you that other people have advocated for this strategy. Quite effectively sometimes I might add. What if Michale believes that the moment he gets to you is the moment he's won?

Now you could play the counter game and try to get to him, but what would that accomplish? Is there a reason divide and conquer games work so well for corporate special interest groups?

Or, as you mentioned, you could spend a lot of time rebutting his arguments. We both pretty much know how that will go.

Or, you can just enjoy Michale and focus on other things (like people you can win over) if he gets to you. I happen to like Michale because he pushes me on my arguments. I accept that I'm not likely going to change him and I'm ok with that. Sometimes it's just good to have someone with a different perspective to talk things through with.

Sometimes people don't understand why I like him. It's pretty easy though. He likes Star Trek. He cares about his family. He knows a lot about IT and things like security systems. He likes beer. He likes CW.

And yeah, sometimes it's hard to see this because, well, we're online and we get into the thick of stupid politics.

Politics is stupid. Michale is not.

-David

"Yes, why bother.. Because, as usual, my facts are impeccable."

Hahaha omg, the fact that you really, truly, sincerely believe that always gets to me Michale. Funniest/Saddest thing you've ever posted.

Kudos on the music quote!! :D One of my favorite EAGLES songs.....Nice one.. :D

Thank-you ... thank-you very much. :)

I'm pretty sure that there is an Eagles lyric to cover every one of life's situations. That's why they are so popular and always will be.

By the way, you have an uncanny knack for reversing the passion, as they say. I guess that's why I'm not really already gone. :)

Why bother?

Yes, why bother.. Because, as usual, my facts are impeccable... :D

Michale is fucking stupid and always will be.

Although I am never one to resort to spelling lames, if yer gonna call someone "fucking stupid", perhaps it would behoove you to make sure your "fucking spelling" is at least somewhat above a 2nd grade level..

Just a "Pro Tip".... :D

Michale

Examines Michale's acussations.

Thinks very seriously about a point by point rebuttal.

Why bother? Michale is fucking stupid and always will be.

Com back when you discover the history section in your local library.

Pro Tip: Dan Brown, not a historian.

Read 'em and weep, people...

Michale

Once again, Obama blames anyone and everyone but himself..

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/09/28/why-obama-can-t-say-his-spies-underestimated-isis.html

Yet, Democrats are outspending Republicans 4 to 1....

And not a word from Weigantians...

ANOTHER contradiction....

It's apparent that EVERYTHING ya'all are against is solely and completely based on whether or not it's a Democrat or Republican...

If a Republican goes to war, he is a war-monger or a hitler..

If a Democrat goes to war, it's not even discussed...

If a Republican goes all out in domestic surveillance, the hysterical scream reach a crescendo...

If a Democrat far exceeds that in domestic surveillance, it doesn't even warrant ANY condemnation at all...

I could go on and on (and often do) pointing out the blatant contradictions in ya'alls beliefs...

But it all boils down to two simple statements..

If a Republican does it it's evil and bad..

If a Democrat does it, it's good and proper..

Michale

You claim that Republicans are in bed with corporations.

Yet, your Obama Administration is in bed with those SAME corporations and did not hold ANY of them accountable for their nearly criminal malfeasence and incompetence..

Yet, it's the Republicans who earn your scorn and ire and Obama and the Democrats get a pass...

That just one of a multitude of contradictions that plague ya'all's ideological devotion...

Michale

AND seems to like some back seat vooody ohh doe doe with women other than his wife..

BOTH would be heinous crimes if the guy had a '-R' after his name.. :D

You. You're the victim of mean libural words.

"Al, what are you doing? Why are you bringing me into this??"
-Robin Williams, ALADDIN

:D

It's not about me..

It's about the totally BS idea that Democrats are somehow better than Republicans despite ALL the evidence to the contrary..

It's about the notion around here that, when Democrats win elections it's because it's the will of the people and because Democrats are so gosh darned awesome, but when Republicans win elections it's because of gerrymandering and voter suppression and nefarious schemes..

What it's ultimately about is that, contrary to Weigantian popular opinion, Democrats are NOT god's gift to the world, as clearly evidenced by the FACT that this country's economy and this country's place on the world stage is totally and completely decimated...

Thanx to those gosh darned awesome Democrats..

The only part that is about me is that I helped by voting Democrat...

Biggest mistake of my life... Although, truth be told, Bill Nelson has been a pretty awesome Senator for FL and I will likely vote for him next time around..

Michale

I think your endless victimization cries finally convinced me though, Michale. I didn't realize it before but you're the true victim. Not people without jobs. Not our country that's been outsourced to China and India. Not dead Michael Brown.

You. You're the victim of mean libural words.

Does it hurt? How can I help?

-David

Of course, winning or losing is not why we all are here..

We're here to learn and impart wisdom... :D

But, before that can happen, we must agree on the facts...

Michale

But, that's OK.. A win by forfeit is still a win.. :D

Michale

Kudos on the music quote!! :D

One of my favorite EAGLES songs.....

Nice one.. :D

Michale

Besides, there is a very easy way for us to move past this, Liz.

"Well, I've got some news for you and, you'll soon find out it's true and, you'll have to eat your lunch all by yourself. 'Cause I'm already gone ... "

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/29/us/fumbled-bid-for-governor-imperils-ohio-democrats.html?_r=0

Looks like Democrats are an endangered species all over the country.. :D

As of today, GOP has a 76% of taking the Senate..

And Democrats in Ohio are very worried about a GOP wave...

Michale

Ya'all simply concede the point... :D

Michale

Only because the answer is obvious... :D

Michale

Hatred???

Racism???

Legitimate criticism>???

Michale

I just have to ask..

Has there EVER been any criticism of Obama and his minions from the Right that WASN'T based on "hate" or "racism"???

Any at all???

Michale

Why be amazed??

It was the same reaction that the Left had against any GOP AG...

The only difference is that Holder is the ONLY AG to be charged with Contempt Of Congress....

Michale

Ya know, it's funny...

ANY opposition to the Left from the Right is based on "hate" and "racism" etc etc, but any opposition to the Right from the Left is based "logic" and "facts"...

Isn't that simply uncanny!!???? :D

Michale

An example is the $13 billion settlement w/ JP Morgan.

I think I may have predicted that. Ahem. :)

I'm still a big fan of the Dodd-Frank legislation but we just won't know how effective it is until the next time, God forbid ...

I have to say that I'm quite amazed by the visceral reaction to AG Holder - throughout this blog and beyond.

I wonder how Ethel Kennedy feels about the job he has done over the last many years ... that Robert Kennedy was watching over Holder's every move in his spacious justice department office was always good enough for me!

Usually, this is a good sign he's fighting for justice. I'd add that Holder and the DoJ pursued in many ways within the law some level of recompense for the financial collapse.

An example is the $13 billion settlement w/ JP Morgan.

My only regret is that they never really pursued criminal charges. The argument Holder made that while what these banks did was "evil" it was often still within the law.

Here's an interesting article from John Cassidy at the New Yorker on the banking issue.

http://www.newyorker.com/news/john-cassidy/didnt-eric-holder-go-bankers

I believe the actions Holder and DoJ took were what probably led to all fanned anti-Holder hate. Wall Street doesn't like it when they don't get everything they want.

I'm not a fan of this new "too big to jail" policy, however.

-David

That's like saying that Stalin was kinda a butthead...

Holder ignored the law when it suited his partisan agenda. He persecuted people for non-existent racism.. He signed off on the persecution of reporters, again for purely partisan reasons.. His bungling got a BP agent killed..

by those measures, holder isn't even in the discussion for worst ever - possibly not even worst in the past two administrations.

For example....????

Michale

that the office is most often used for politics first and justice second? sure, as long as we include nearly every other administration in history.

has holder made a few errors? of course he has. has somebody somewhere in the department goofed up under his watch? absolutely, i could answer that regarding the tenure of just about anybody. but if you're going to make a "worst ever" argument, my criteria would be first of all how high-level the mistakes were, secondly how intentional they were, and third of all how many people suffered as a direct causal result.

by those measures, holder isn't even in the discussion for worst ever - possibly not even worst in the past two administrations.

JL

I'de be disappointed if ya didn't. :D

...just like every administration since 1970, with perhaps a brief respite or two (perhaps not coincidenally by the last two presidents to lose their re-election campaigns).

See! We DO agree. :D

The point is that the AG is supposed to serve the American People.

NOT the President.

it takes quite a long and twisted chain of cause and effect to link holder to border guards murdered by the mexican cartels. it's not as if the cartels aren't ridiculously well-armed anyway,

So, because the cartels are armed anyways, it's OK to give them more weapons with which to kill our LEOs???

it's not as if holder personally dropped the ball by failing to monitor someone four levels below him in the chain of command,

That's EXACTLY what he did..

He is ultimately responsible for everything done and NOT done in the DOJ...

And if this was a GOP administration with a GOP AG, then no one here would disagree with me...

Michale

i'm going to have to disagree with you on that one.

He ignored the law to serve a political partisan agenda..

...just like every administration since 1970, with perhaps a brief respite or two (perhaps not coincidenally by the last two presidents to lose their re-election campaigns).

His incompetence got people killed..

it takes quite a long and twisted chain of cause and effect to link holder to border guards murdered by the mexican cartels. it's not as if the cartels aren't ridiculously well-armed anyway, it's not as if holder personally dropped the ball by failing to monitor someone four levels below him in the chain of command, it's not as if he did it on purpose, and it's not as if he sold them MIM-23 Hawk Missiles, like for example edwin meese of the reagan administration.

JL

Very funny.. :D

He did comparable things...

He ignored the law to serve a political partisan agenda..

His incompetence got people killed..

And don't EVEN get me started on how he took completely non-racist events and turned them into a racial circus, complete with clowns...

Michale

really? he ended reconstruction, jailed suspected communists, covered up watergate and fired US Attorneys who wouldn't drum up spurious prosecution against his political rivals? and those other guys weren't racist at all? i had no idea! heh-heh-heh.

;)

JL

Yea, "ever" might be a stretch.. especially since I barely am better at history than I am at economics..

Hyperbole aside, however, it's clear that Holder ranks down there with the lowest of the low...

Michale

Holder has done all the things that those guys did plus displayed an appalling amount of racism...

No comparison...

But I understand that others might have differing opinions.... :D

Michale

michale, you should know better than to throw words like "ever" around in a forum so full of history buffs.

even were we not to favorably stack holder and his scandals against the likes of alberto gonzales, what about john mitchell, a. mitchell palmer, harry m. daugherthy, henry stanbery... hey CW, want to jump in here?

JL

I think "after the zombie-fearing Talibangelical Republican incumbent's well-executed implementation of disastrous "pure" conservative economic theory" is clearer.

An AG is supposed to serve the AMERICAN PEOPLE...

And do you know how I know this??

Because Obama himself SAID SO... Back when he was attacking Bush's AG...

I find it really fascinating how so many of Obama's own words come back to bite him on his ass...

Michale

The problem is that an AG is *NOT* supposed to serve the President..

An AG is supposed to serve the AMERICAN PEOPLE...

THAT is why Holder is the worst AG ever...

Michale