Michale

True...

But the decision SHOULD reside with the sovereign nation and NOT be imposed by external forces..

Of course, all of this pre-supposes a perfect world.. :D

Each nation looks out for their own best interests..

*I* have no problem with the US imposing circumstances that are in the best interests of the US...

I am just surprised that I have company in that regard.. :D

Michale

Agreed...

But having Russia dictate what organizations Ukraine can and cannot join is tantamount to appeasement..

And, as recent history has shown time and time again, appeasement simply emboldens the enemy..

Not joining a western military alliance has little bearing on Ukraine's ability to chart its own future vis-à-vis relations with Moscow, the EU or the United States.

Unless, of course, Ukraine WANTS to join a western military alliance...

Furthermore, NATO has every right to limit its membership and that can hardy be seen as depriving any country of its right of self-determination.

Again, agreed...

But the WHY is important.

Israel hasn't been allowed to join NATO because NATO doesn't want to deal with Israel's headaches...

That's a legitimate reason..

Keeping Israel out of NATO because HAMAS says so???

Not so much...

NATO and Ukraine needs to be free to determine what's in their own best interests..

Not what's in the best interests of Russia...

In other words, I am all for giving Ukraine the freedom to determine their own fate..

But if Ukraine determines that their best interests lie with NATO...

Well, then that is their choice...

If Ukraine doesn't want to piss off the Russian bear and NOT join NATO??

That, again, is their choice..

All I am saying is that they SHOULD have that choice....

Michale

A core Ukrainian interest is to avoid all out war with Russia.

Not joining a western military alliance has little bearing on Ukraine's ability to chart its own future vis-à-vis relations with Moscow, the EU or the United States.

Furthermore, NATO has every right to limit its membership and that can hardy be seen as depriving any country of its right of self-determination.

The problem with that is it totally negates Ukraine's right to self-determination..

It's just as wrong to "discourage" Ukraine's efforts to join NATO as it is to "encourage" Ukraine's efforts to join NATO..

Either way is meddling in the affairs of a sovereign nation..

Something I am always for.. :D

Michale

And, war may yet be averted between Ukraine and Russia but, only if there is far more enlightened leadership on the part of the US, the European Union and the Russian Federation than the US and Europe demonstrated decades ago upon the fall of the Soviet Union or at the onset of this current crisis.

To paraphrase a respected geopolitical analyst, William Bradley, who keeps reminding of the context, it shouldn't have been at all surprising that a nasty response from Russia's nasty president took place in the wake of the overthrow of a friendly government on its border just a few hundred miles from Moscow - at the height of the Sochi Olympics, no less.

The first thing the Obama/Biden administration should have done at the onset of this crisis - and, even now, if it's not too late - is to declare publically and privately that NATO will not, under any circumstances, expand to Ukraine and right up to Russia's oft-invaded border.

Along with Putin, American and European leaders share in the responsibility for what is happening in Ukraine. And, while motivating videos and moving songs that "go viral" can mobilize and encourage people and their leaders - in Ukraine, its neighbours and wider international community - it will be a clear understanding of the geopolitics of this crisis and an enlightened political leadership - all around - that acts effectively on that premise that offers the only hope for a peaceful resolution.

Michale