His voice anyways.. :D

Yea, it's a funny movie... I almost guarantee you that ya'all will like it..

Michale

It has to do with the subsidies issue.

The text of the law is fairly clear. According to the article, it's looking fairly sure that the Appeals court will rule against Obamacare..

Of course, nothing will happen right away. It will go to the SCOTUS...

Considering Obama's luck with the SCOTUS lately.... :D

But if the ruling DOES go against Obamacare then it will decimate the thing...

As for the rest of this "debate" -- how did we get here from enjoying fireworks on the 4th? Am I going to have to institute some sort of "relevant to the thread" rules here, or what?

It's what happens when ya do a FTA commentary.. :D

Frankly I was surprised it got going myself. :D

Michale

Haven't seen "The Croods" (looked pretty silly) but I will now check it out! Nick Cage is in it? Really?

dsws [3] -

What about Minnesota? Inquiring minds want to know.

DisabledDoc [4] -

That is a pretty cool story. 1812 was a strange time on the Canadian/US border, so it's very interesting to hear of towns that rose above the fray (at least, to me)...

Michale [9] -

I have to agree, to a certain extent. The media largely ignored this recent revelation, despite spotlighting previous ones. Perhaps they're becoming jaded, who knows?

[12] -

Breitbart? Really?

[13] -

Is this the "the State" case? It's never going to fly... this simply wasn't the intent of the law, as the framers of the law have said (in a brief filed with the court).

[14] -

Japan did this years ago, sorry. Beer vending machines!

LizM [15] -

My mom just drove across Ontario, and she said it never ended! Only driven between Detroit and Buffalo, myself, but had to share that with you at least.

:-)

LizM [19] -

That may be changing. Didn't the US just achieve energy independence this year? As for Canuckistan (sorry... heh), how about those tar sands? Not very environmental, are they?

But I totally agree about lessening the impact of the Middle East., That's going to make things a lot easier for both countries, in the long run.

As for the rest of this "debate" -- how did we get here from enjoying fireworks on the 4th? Am I going to have to institute some sort of "relevant to the thread" rules here, or what?

Hmmph. Fireworks are awesome. There's a topic for general debate. Discuss among yourselves...

-CW

Who do you think are feeding the Left Wing morons??

The Climate (so-called) Climate scientists that you quote...

Well, that depends on how you define that phrase. Many people are likely to die.

Orders of magnitude more than from terrorism

Yer cite for that???

BBBBZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Fear mongering... :D

Look, I get it..

Yea, in 200, 300, 400 years the world MIGHT have some climate catastrophe...

And, in 200, 300, 400 years the world MIGHT have the Yellowstone Caldera explode...

And...

It MIGHT not...

Do we destroy ourselves NOW because of what *MIGHT* happen in 200, 300, 400 years???

Where is the logic in that???

C02 has risen 400% in the last couple decades..

World temps have nearly flat-lined...

Can your priests (so-called 'scientists') explain that??

No they can't...

It's a crap shoot, Bashi...

It's no different than me saying, "It might rain tomorrow, it might not.."

THAT is the so-called "science" you are trying to defend...

There is no imminent (100+ years) catastrophe...

THAT is the reality...

Deal with it...

Michale

Well, climate scientists have not and they are who I have been following, nor have I seen much of that from the left. Are you sure you are looking beyond only what you want to see?

OK.. So... We are in agreement..

I repeat myself but, yes, the human race will not end, nor will the earth become an asteroid field.

Not that that statement has anything to do with the subject at hand...

I read your graph... Hansen is saying, "It might rain, it might not"...

Translation: you refuse to even look at a counter argument. Yup, politics pure and simple.

And that is far from what he is saying. Read the paper, you might learn something.

There is no imminent catastrophe...

Well, that depends on how you define that phrase. Many people are likely to die. Orders of magnitude more than from terrorism. Not many will be from modern westernized countries, so most won't care that much.

What? Am I arguing with a brick wall here? Instead of waiting, how about reading. I answered this exact question last time we discussed this subject and you replied to that answer. Short of it is: mixing "imminent destruction" and the science of climate change is a figment of your imagination.

Well, THAT is exactly what LEFT WING morons have been arguing for the last 20 years..

OK.. So... We are in agreement..

There is NO imminent catastrophe that is going to destroy the planet or human kind...

We have nothing let to debate then...

Ahh..NO [giss.nasa.gov] read the paper yourself.

I read your graph... Hansen is saying, "It might rain, it might not"...

That isn't science..

THAT is simple bullshit..

But, it's a moot point..

There is no imminent catastrophe...

We are agreed...

Michale

Yes?? Or No...

What? Am I arguing with a brick wall here? Instead of waiting, how about reading. I answered this exact question last time we discussed this subject and you replied to that answer. Short of it is: mixing "imminent destruction" and the science of climate change is a figment of your imagination. Unless, depending on how you define "imminent", you own land in low lying Florida. Then you might not plan on leaving it to your grand kids...

As far as the Hansen 2005 Graph, that is a measure of climate SENSITIVITY, not much to do with actual warming..

Having said that, the "scenarios" that Hansen "predicts" are so widely varied that he couldn't be wrong, regardless of what happened.

Ahh..NO [giss.nasa.gov] read the paper yourself.

So it is with your political "scientists".

Pure and simple....

Aww, can't back up your argument so you become sullen and dismissive. The only politics in this discussion are on ones you bring in, and it's a pretty heaping, steaming pile of them...

Obama has time to play pool and drink beer...

But doesn't have time to hit the border and see what a debacle his policies have wrought...

No wonder his approval rating is in the toilet...

Michale

I am still waiting for you to state officially, for the record, that there is NO viable scientific evidence that disputes the theory that the planet is headed for imminent destruction and that there is NO reputable scientist that refutes the theory that the planet is heading for imminent destruction.

Is that your position??

Yes?? Or No...

As far as the Hansen 2005 Graph, that is a measure of climate SENSITIVITY, not much to do with actual warming..

Having said that, the "scenarios" that Hansen "predicts" are so widely varied that he couldn't be wrong, regardless of what happened.

It's like me saying, "It may rain tomorrow, it may not.."

I would be right 100% of the time..

Doesn't mean my "prediction" is worth a damn...

So it is with your political "scientists".

Human caused global warming is NOT science.

It's politics...

Pure and simple....

Michale

I probably can't as I have no idea what you are blabbing on about in this sentence but for accurate scientific computer modeling that is accurate in a scientific research context rather than a political one see: This one. If you look at many computer simulations, the timing is usually off a bit the effect is dam clear.

Face it, Bashi.. You will always lose this debate because, for every piece of science that you can come up with that supports the THEORY, I can come up with an equal piece of science that disputes the theory...

For every reputable scientist (if there actually is one left) that supports the THEORY, I can come up with an equally reputable scientist that DOESN'T support the theory...

I'm still waiting for this equal piece of science or reputable scientist. It's been years now. If you are going to copy and paste off a denier site, at least mix up the order. Last time was just sad. I googled the first one and came up with a site at the top of the page that had all your links in the order you posted them. Bonus point if you actually read what you post. The few I looked at took a part of a paragraph out of context with the rest of the paper and the denier point was shown to be wrong further in.

You cannot win.. I have facts and logic AND science on my side...

See my link in post [18]. That is actual fact and science. Try it some time. As to I cannot win because you say so... Steps slowly away from the delusional crazy person...

Voters strongly believe the debate about global warming is not over yet and reject the decision by some news organizations to ban comments from those who deny that global warming is a problem.

Only 20% of Likely U.S. Voters believe the scientific debate about global warming is over, according to the latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey. Sixty-three percent (63%) disagree and say the debate about global warming is not over. Seventeen percent (17%) are not sure. (To see survey question wording, click here.)

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/lifestyle/general_lifestyle/july_2014/only_20_think_debate_about_global_warming_is_over

Sorry, people. Ya'all are on the LOSING side of this debate....

Michale

Another consequence of Obama's "Lead From Behind" (AKA The Coward Of The Country) style of "leadership"...

Give a Russia/Iran confab complete run of Iraq...

What could POSSIBLY go wrong???

Jan 2017 simply CANNOT come fast enough...

Michale

THE MORAL OF THE STORY:
Someone may come along and promise "Change",
But don't count on things smelling any better.

:D

"You cannot win! I have god on my side!!"
-Max Von Sydow, NEEDFUL THINGS

:D

Michale

Actually, pretty much the SAME bunch of loons.

http://sjfm.us/temp/green1.jpg

Michale

You can always bring up that "97% of scientists......" bullshit.....

Go on.. I DARE you!! I DOUBLE DOG dare ya!!! :D

Michale

Complete and utter garbage. First off some of the models have been quite accurate.

Really??

Find me one..

Find me ONE Human Caused Global Warming (Yet Al Gore/Richard Branson Is Laughing All The Way To The Bank) model/prediction that was accurate.

Just ONE..

And you'll never hear another word from me.

I can safely make that bet because not one single model/prediction has EVER been accurate...

Face it, Bashi.. You will always lose this debate because, for every piece of science that you can come up with that supports the THEORY, I can come up with an equal piece of science that disputes the theory...

For every reputable scientist (if there actually is one left) that supports the THEORY, I can come up with an equally reputable scientist that DOESN'T support the theory...

You cannot win.. I have facts and logic AND science on my side...

You just have hysterical fear-mongering and science..

Liz,

It's the fact that our continued dependence on fossil fuels

Newsflash.. EVERYONE is dependent on fossil fuels..

So anytime ANYONE does just about ANYTHING on this planet, they are using fossil fuels...

So, I guess that means everyone is in bed with Isis...

Which, if we were talking about the Saturday morning kids show that would... uh never mind.. :D

But there is a way we can get rid of the ISIS/ISIL support..

Exploit the fossil fuels that are VERY prevalent here in North America..

But then you run into ANOTHER Leftist bunch of loons...

Sure, it would be nice to get rid of fossil fuel dependency..

But explain to me one thing?

How is making AL Gore and Richard Branson richer going to acheive that??

How is spending TRILLIONS of dollars on TALKING and LOBBYING about the problem going to fix the problem??

Michale

I did not know that...I bet it's because Americans are just such awesome people that Canadians just want to be close to us, hoping some of the awesomeness will rub off, eh? :D

You got that right!

But, you know what really mystifies me about your apparent stance on climate change? It's the fact that our continued dependence on fossil fuels allows folks like those who make up the membership of groups like ISIS/ISIL to profit from that dependency.

As for the antarctic ice. Please learn the difference between land ice and sea ice before making erroneous generalizations. Sea ice is seasonal. Land ice takes thousands of years to accumulate and is melting/sliding at a pretty alarming rate.

According to the models/predictions, there shouldn't BE any ice growth at all.... It should be in a steep decline in BOTH poles...

Which model? Put up or shut up...

Hint: you already posted a model in one of your previous copy and paste jobs that prove this wrong. Forget to read what you post again?

EVERY SINGLE MODEL/PREDICTION has been wrong...

NOT ONE SINGLE MODEL/PREDICTION has *EVER* predicted ANYTHING accurately...

Complete and utter garbage. First off some of the models have been quite accurate. Second, some have been overly conservative and inaccurate in the opposite direction that would prove your overall anti-climate change stance. summertime melting of Arctic sea-ice for example was predicted at a much lesser rate by the IPCC AR4 climate models...

The United States has actually COOLED several degrees in the last couple decades....

Got anything to back that up? Not that it matters. The temperature of 2% to 6% of the world land mass (depending whether you count land only or include ocean area under us control) is meaningless compared to the global mean which is higher.

{{cough}} {{cough, cough}} bullshit... {{cough}} {cough}

Balls on accurate, just directed at the wrong person...

Missile attacks on Tel Aviv....

http://www.jpost.com/Operation-Protective-Edge/Iron-Dome-intercepts-second-rocket-over-greater-Tel-Aviv-361994

'Bout time Israel just paved over Gaza and be done with it...

Michale

{{cough}} {{cough, cough}} bullshit... {{cough}} {cough} :D

You should have a look at the google maps of the disappearing polar ice caps!

There is actually 30% more polar ice on the planet in 2013 than there was in 2012 ago...

And now it's global COOLING! Return of Arctic ice cap as it grows by 29% in a year
dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2415191/And-global-COOLING-Return-Arctic-ice-cap-grows-29-year.html#ixzz36tLvKfoW

Antarctic Ice Sheets are growing at a fantastic rate..

Global warming computer models confounded as Antarctic sea ice hits new record high with 2.1million square miles more than is usual for time of year.

dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2681829/Global-warming-latest-Amount-Antarctic-sea-ice-hits-new-record-high.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490&utm_source=Daily+Carbon+Briefing&utm_campaign=0c21b4fdf0-DAILY_BRIEFING&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_876aab4fd7-0c21b4fdf0-303421281

According to the models/predictions, there shouldn't BE any ice growth at all.... It should be in a steep decline in BOTH poles...

Ya see, that's the EXACT problem with the doom-saying fear-mongering of the Human Caused Global Warming (Yet There Ain't No Warming) group...

REALITY doesn't seem to match up with their models...

EVERY SINGLE MODEL/PREDICTION has been wrong...

NOT ONE SINGLE MODEL/PREDICTION has *EVER* predicted ANYTHING accurately...

With that kind of track record, ya might think rational people would say, "Hmmmmm... Something ain't right here..."

The United States has actually COOLED several degrees in the last couple decades....

The vast majority of the Canadian population resides and works within a relatively narrow band of land along the US border, by the way

Really??

I did not know that...

I bet it's because Americans are just such awesome people that Canadians just want to be close to us, hoping some of the awesomeness will rub off, eh? :D

Michale

I imagine that must have been a SERIOUS challenge for roadways and highway systems, eh?What's it like on the ground???

If you're in certain parts of the prairies, then it's very wet due to another consecutive year of massive flooding - just one example of the destructive effects of global climate change spurred on by the unchecked use of fossil fuels and related human activity.

You should have a look at the google maps of the disappearing polar ice caps!

The vast majority of the Canadian population resides and works within a relatively narrow band of land along the US border, by the way.

Technology has peaked!! :D

Michale

Get ready for an even bigger threat to Obamacare
http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-0701-turley-obamacare-subsidy-halbig-20140701-story.html

Hobby Lobby was a mere love-slap down of Obama's abysmal Health Care debacle..

Halbig vs. Burwell is a bone-crushing bona fide full on body slam that will pulverize TrainWreckCare.

How do you like your Obamacare now, eh? :D

Michale

The American people are speaking loud and clear...

Why don't Obama and the Democrats listen??

Because it is in their POLITICAL best interests to ignore the will of the people...

AGAIN......

Michale

Although use of the term here in Weigantia is practically non-existent these days, I thought this was a clever and informative explanation as to WHY... :D

Michale

Hillary says steep university speaking fees go to charity — the Clinton Foundation
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jul/5/hillary-says-exorbitant-university-speaking-fees-g/

Oh Wow!! Hillary is so awesome.. She gives her exorbitant over-priced speaking fees to charity!

How AWESOME is Hillary!!!

Wait a tic.. Hillary RUNS the charity that she "donates" her fees to...

So, in effect, Hillary is donating her exorbitant speaking fees to herself!!

Whatta crock!! Whatta con!!

That's like Richard Branson "donating" 1 billion dollars to aid Human Caused Global Warming (Yet The Country Has Actually COOLED In The Last Decade!!!)...

But Branson "donated" that 1 billion dollars TO HIS OWN COMPANY!!!

It's a con... Pure and simple...

And there are actually people on this planet who are stoopid enough to buy into the con...

Barnum was right.. There IS one born every minute..

And they seem to be ALL Left Wingers... :D

Michale

So here's another story where, if it had happened under a GOP POTUS, the Left would have gone batshit unglued over it...

But, because it's Obama, the response from the Left is nearly non-existent..

Funny, iddn't it??

Michale

Israeli authorities made a swift arrest in the murder of a Palestinian teen...

Wouldn't it be great if Palestinian authorities dealt justice just as swiftly??

Oh, I forgot.. Palestinian authorities are too busy praising the scumbags who brutally murdered 3 teenage Israelis, one with dual US citizenship...

It boggles the mind how ANYONE can find fault with Israel...

Michale

So much for the "Being A Country Of Laws" BS, eh??

"Aidin' and Abettin'..."
-Sheriff Farley, MY COUSIN VINNY

:D

According to the Left, we're only "A Country Of Laws" when it suits their agenda...

Two be fair, the Right is the same way...

And so it goes.... And so it goes.....

Michale

Each illegal immigrant has 20x the carbon footprint here in America that they would have in their own country.

If the Left REALLY cared about Human Caused Global Warming (Yet No Warming In Decades) then the Left would fight tooth and nail to keep these illegals out...

After all....

"OH MY GODS, WE HAVE TO SAVE THE PLANET!!!!"

Apparently, minting millions of fresh new Democrat voters is a lot more important than saving the planet... :^/

Color me shocked....
{/sarcasm}

Michale

First we have some IDIOT who said, "By and large illegal immigrants obey the law."

Now we have ANOTHER idiot in Murrieta, CA who says, "I'm here because I believe that we're a country based on laws. It doesn't matter how the immigrants got here — the fact is they're here."

This mentally challenged dipshit's second statement totally negates his first... If we are a country based on laws, then the fact that these ILLEGAL immigrants got here ILLEGALLY does, in fact, matter...

I would further point out to this mental midget that, if he came home from vacation and found that someone had broken into HIS house and was consuming HIS resources, how would he feel if he called the cops and the cops told him, "Sorry. It doesn't matter HOW they got into your house. They are there and you have to let them stay."

The Immigration debate would be a LOT more interesting if it came with less hysteria and less emotionalism and more facts and more logic..

I mean, sheeesh.. I ain't even breaking a sweat countering these lame emotional and hysterical arguments...

Michale

We are animals. What else would we be? Plants? Minerals? Fungi? Robots?

Many animals aren't particularly scared of fire. They flock to it, to hunt smaller critters that have lost their hiding places.

Look at ALL the lakes and bodies of water in Canada!!

Holy crap!!

No kidding.

I haven't been to the really lake-intensive parts of Canada, but I'm pretty sure those are glacial lakes, basically the same as the lakes in Michigan. The surrounding land is reasonably firm and well drained. The lakes disrupt any attempt to lay out the roads on a grid, but they're not a problem for road-building on land. In Michigan the density of lakes is much lower, so disruption is minor: some don't go through because there's a lake in the way, but the grid pattern works just fine. In parts of Canada, there would be no point in trying to set up a grid of roads.

Since this is likely going to be an Open Commentary, I have a question..

One of the best (if not THE best) aspect of Google is GOOGLE MAPS.... I think it is totally awesome how you can read about a place and then actually SEE that place on a map..

I was tooling around MAPS this morning and came across this:

http://sjfm.us/temp/Canada.jpg

And it really struck me..

Look at ALL the lakes and bodies of water in Canada!!

Holy crap!!

Is that REALLY how Canada is?? You can't go for a mile in any direction without hitting a lake or river...

I imagine that must have been a SERIOUS challenge for roadways and highway systems, eh???

What's it like on the ground???

Michale

:D

That's the thing about Nicholas Cage... His movies are either very very good (The Rock, FaceOff, ConAir) or very very bad (The Bad Lieutenant, 8MM)

THE CROODS is one of his better ones..

A great family movie.. The grandkids love it...

Enjoy ya'all's 4th... :D

Michale