They have one answer to every problem: WAR!!!!!

I will vote for anyone who wants to end tax handouts to the rich.

This is the first step towards a working economy . All these other things that you keep bringing up don't interest me as much.

I won't vote for Democrats who believe in trickle-down economics. I won't vote for Republicans who believe in trickle-down economics.

-David

Comments???

Michale

YOU believe that Obama and the Democrats are blameless regarding the policies of this country..

You believe that, if the Republicans would just go along with Obama and the Democrats, everything would be peachy keen wonderful..

You believe this, despite ALL the facts to the contrary...

IRS, Benghazi, DOJ, FAST/FURIOUS, etc etc etc..

ALL of these are DEMOCRAT screw-ups that occurred DESPITE GOP running interference...

It's not rocket science to figure how much worse things would be if Obama and the Democrats had total free reign....

This country would be in a worse shit-hole than it already is right now...

Democrats are NOT the answer to this country's problems..

Republicans may not be the best candidate for domestic issues, but at least they know how to run a Foreign Policy....

Democrats are ABYSMAL at Foreign Policy..

So, half a loaf is better than no loaf....

Michale

We both know that they won't...

Which should indicate to you how bad Democrats have screwed up the country...

It's for damn sure that Republicans can't do any worse..

At the VERY least, the GOP knows Foreign Policy...

Our Whiner In Chief can't do Foreign Policy to save his life....

Michale

THAT is the ideological problem..

You are convinced that AMNESTY is the ONLY solution...

That is where you are wrong, as the current debacle on the southern border PROVES beyond any doubt...

Michale

Hahahahah ... now that's funny. Since when?

You yourself said this is what cost Eric Cantor his house seat.

"Immigration reform’s slow but steady failure exposes how an ideologically diverse and powerful network of supporters couldn’t bend the one group that mattered: House Republicans."

http://www.politico.com/story/2014/06/how-immigration-reform-died-108374.html#ixzz361vRRQOQ

Once again, Republicans, the one group unwilling to compromise.

This, from Politico, a conservative website.

-David

Sorry. That's simply not reality.

Democrats have been perfectly willing to compromise. In fact, they'd go far beyond compromising. They pretty much let Republicans/corporations have everything they want.

Much to my chagrin btw. They should be much better negotiators for people.

This doesn't change the fact, however, that it's impossible to work with Republicans. Even Republicans can't work with Republicans anymore.

How do you work with a party whose platform is "we hate government"?

When you hate government, what incentive do you have to make it better? The more you f*ck it up, the more you win. (Of course the country loses but you don't care.)

What makes Democrats right and Republicans wrong?

First of all, once again, I don't give a rat's ass about Democrats and Republicans.

The problem is a philosophy. It's a philosophy of trickle down economics. This philosophy says that if you give to the rich, the benefits will trickle down. This philosophy looks like tax cuts for the wealthy and tax increases for everyone else. This philosophy has been supported by both Democrats and Republicans.

Trickle down theory hasn't worked. Giving tax breaks to the wealthy has only made the wealthy much wealthier and everyone else in the country poorer.

It's wiping out the middle class.

Look around you, Michale.

Our country is falling apart. It's falling apart because those at the top decided they no longer want to pay for our country. They just want gifts and handouts.

Gifts and handouts provided by both parties.

Shouldn't the litmus test for such a determination be the good of the country?

Yes.

The problem is that trickle down economics doesn't work.

I will vote for anyone who is against trickle down economics. Republican or Democrat.

The problem is that there simply aren't that many people willing to take this stand.

Why?

Because of all the money in politics supporting handouts for the rich.

When the return on investment for lobbying is x20 or even x100 (that is, you get 100x back in tax breaks what you spend on lobbying dollars) we're very unlikely to see reform.

Do yo HONESTLY believe that Democrats will prevail in the upcoming mid-terms?

Do you honestly believe the economy would be any better if we elected Republicans and gave the wealthy some more tax handouts?

I can understand why you don't like Democrats, Michale. I share your disdain for many and the party in general. What's hard for me to get is why you seem to think Republicans would do a better job when all they're offering is more war and more trickle down economics .

Instead of bashing Dems and Obama, tell me how Republican land would make things better. From everything I've heard, I don't think it would.

-David

I know they do.

OK, so we're agreed..

Democrats are doing what THEY think is right for the country and won't compromise and Republicans are doing what THEY think is right for the country and THEY won't compromise..

So, how does this make Democrats any better than Republicans??

I swear, seeing Democrats and Republicans going at it is like the bad old days of the Catholics and the Protestants in Ireland.

Both think that god is on their side and that the opposing group is Lucifer incarnate..

What makes Democrats right and Republicans wrong??

Shouldn't the litmus test for such a determination be the good of the country??

How good a shape is the country in now after almost 6 years of Democrat rule??

Economy in the toilet and a bull's eye on every American overseas and here at home...

The proof is in the pudding, my friend..

Democrats were given the country to lead and they failed...

"Failed! Failed! IMPRESSIVELY Failed!!"
-Doctor, ARMAGEDDON

Let me ask you...

Do yo HONESTLY believe that Democrats will prevail in the upcoming mid-terms??

Michale

Isn't that indicative of how lawlessness can HURT American citizens and American interests??

Forget Democrat/Republican for a momemnt... Just comment on the catastrophe...

Michale

I am further constrained to point out how difficult it is to negotiate with a hysterical faction that refers to their political opponents as "terrorists", "arsonists", "hostage-takers" and "war-criminals"...

Now, I ask you..

Would YOU want to "compromise" with a bunch of hysterical lunatics that called you those names???

I mean, honestly...

Michale

And Democrats do the exact same thing..

Yet you only blame Republicans for that...

And I'm sorry, Michale. I know you believe Democrats are this way too. But when a party is willing to offer a 90% compromise the other way, you can't say that they're not trying to work w/ conservatives. You could say they "bent over forward" for conservatives. But you can't say they're uncompromising.

Yes I can..

And the difference is that *I* have facts to back up what I say..

Take Immigration... Republicans are willing to compromise on Amnesty...

They just want security first..

But Obama and the Democrats refuse to compromise because the goal is to mint fresh new Dem voters fast...

I can point to time and time again where Democrats refused to compromise..

Where's the TORT REFORM in TrainWreckCare??? Non-existent..

Once again.. The DEMOCRATS ARE ALWAYS RIGHT AND REPUBLICANS ARE ALWAYS WRONG attitude is part of the problem. NOT part of the solution..

Unless you can concede that Democrats are not perfect and have not operated in good faith, then the problem will still exist..

You have a PERFECT opportunity to address the problem in the latest http://FTP....

Michale

How about common sense??? How about taking into account the rights and freedoms of those Americans who DIDN'T vote Democrat??

Don't they count???

Is democracy something that interests you?

Very much so..

But Obama taking actions as if he were King is as far from Democracy as one can get..

We broke away from England BECAUSE of the kind of "leadership" that Obama practices...

You want to fix what is broken about America??

Lose the Party Loyalty. Lose (AND FIGHT AGAINST) the "It's All The Rebublicans Fault" mentality..

Until you can do that, you are part of the problem and not part of the solution..

Michale

Who determines what's right for the country? You?

I believe this should be determined by democracy. Not money.

Is democracy something that interests you?

-David

I know they do.

The problem is that what they think is right is getting 100% of what they want and still saying Democrats won't compromise.

That's not a group you can work with. It's a religious group that has to get it's way or throw a temper tantrum.

It IS possible to work with Congress.

How?

Democrats have submitted legislation that is 90% conservative. Me personally, I think this was insane, but that's what they did.

Democrats were ready to cut social security and extend massive tax cuts for the wealthy.

Republicans still said "no".

Not only that but they scream about how getting 90% of what they want is capitulation.

This is a group of people that has gone off the deep end. All they seem to care about is screaming about liberals. And the country is suffering for it.

If Obama came out tomorrow and said he wanted to repeal all taxes, what would Republicans do? The same thing they always do- call him a socialist and scream that Democrats don't compromise.

I hate to say it, but the Republican party is looking more and more like a bunch of selfish a-holes.

And I'm sorry, Michale. I know you believe Democrats are this way too. But when a party is willing to offer a 90% compromise the other way, you can't say that they're not trying to work w/ conservatives. You could say they "bent over forward" for conservatives. But you can't say they're uncompromising.

The problem is, the only way to work with conservatives anymore is for conservatives to get everything they want and be in power.

-David

Until people can forgo Party Loyalty in favor of what's right for the country, everything will always be like it is now...

Michale

Yea???

And look at our southern border now??

How can that be "right" by ANY stretch of the definition??

Because Republicans in Congress took a "block everything and play politics" position.

Or MAYBE... Republicans in Congress are doing what THEY think is right...

You can't have it both ways, David...

If it were possible to work with Congress, things might be different.

It IS possible to work with Congress...

But Obama doesn't WANT to work with Congress... Obama has proven time and time again that he simply CANNOT be trusted..

The southern border mess is proof positive of that...

Michale

Because Republicans in Congress took a "block everything and play politics" position.

If it were possible to work with Congress, things might be different.

I applaud Obama for this action because he did what was right.

-David

It proves beyond ANY doubt that what is needed on the border first and foremost is SECURITY...

Michale

Ya'all backed Obama on that, simply because it was Obama..

Obama was wrong. Obama frak'ed up..

Supporting leaders, even when they frak up, simply guarantees that we will get more frak'ed up leaders..

What ya'all SHOULD have done was say, "Screw Party loyalty.. Obama frak'ed up. Obama is wrong"

It's attitudes like THAT which will insure that leaders shape up..

Or else they will be shipped out...

Michale

But until everyday Americans like you and I ignore Party loyalty and hold our leaders accountable for when they frak up, NOTHING is going to change...

Michale

M-16??? :D

Michale

Perhaps a different tool ... ?

:)

-David

Oh I know, YOU do.. But you are the minority here in Weigantia who thinks that..

Most here think that Republicans are evil incarnate...

Trying to get those people to look at Republicans as fellow Americans who simply have different beliefs (as I have tried to do time and time and time again) is like trying to thread a needle with a sledgehammer..

But I think the time is ripe for it to happen. And this is encouraging.

Unfortunately, the time has been "ripe" for the last few decades... And things have gotten worse rather than better..

I can point to a dozen things that are happening right now that are BAD for this country.

But none of the "people" will step forward and call a spade a spade for fear of bucking the Party line..

The solution is easy...

Implementing it is hard...

Michale

Wow. I was hoping for Chomsky but it looks like Bill Buckley Jr. Nice guess, CW!

"I am obliged to confess I should sooner live in a society governed by the first two thousand names in the Boston telephone directory than in a society governed by the two thousand faculty members of Harvard University."

Oh well, I'll take Bill. He might have been the last conservative I admired.

And, since "everyone" knows that Republicans are evil, war-mongers, terrorist, hostage-taker criminal scumbags

Huh?

I would say conservatives are good people who've bought some bad ideas (trickle down economics being at the top of the list).

Exactly.. SOMEONE is going to have to take the first step.

I think it's going to have to be people.

For the reasons we both talked about it's unlikely to be either of the two major political parties.

But I think the time is ripe for it to happen. And this is encouraging.

-David

There's a famous quote about "I could pick a better Congress at random from the phone book"... um, Noam Chomsky? Maybe Bill Buckley Sr.? Someone like that [I'm too lazy to look it up]

-CW

And, since "everyone" knows that Republicans are evil, war-mongers, terrorist, hostage-taker criminal scumbags, the task of being the "bigger" person falls to Democrats..

Wanna lay bets on whether or not Democrats will step up to the task??? :D

Michale

Not as long as people put Party loyalty before anything else...

It seems the roadblock is that Dems and Reps each fear that somehow the other side would gain an advantage. So no one pushes any serious reform. It's getting really old though.

Exactly.. SOMEONE is going to have to take the first step...

Michale

Heheh :).

So the question is, do you think there will ever be a way for people to cooperate against corruption in Washington?

I find it really interesting that both Dems/Reps seem to be experiencing similar frustrations. Frustration w/ corporate influence of government.

It seems the roadblock is that Dems and Reps each fear that somehow the other side would gain an advantage. So no one pushes any serious reform. It's getting really old though.

Interested in any thoughts. Sometimes I feel like we, the people of America, should just call a truce in the silly Democrat/Republican game, throw everyone out of government, and just randomly pick new representatives. I think we'd get better results.

-David

Dang, Erik Erikson said that? Wow. I agree -- there's a first time for everything, because I actually agree with the "you've got to stand FOR something" idea, too.

-CW

I'de like to think I am rubbing off on you.. :D

Michale

Erick Erickson wrote the following in Red State today:

I continue to oppose a third party. I’m just not sure what the Republican Party really stands for any more other than telling Obama no and telling our own corporate interests yes. That’s not much of a platform.

http://www.redstate.com/2014/06/25/the-marionettes-remain-uncut/

In many ways, this matches how I feel about many Democrats (Rahm Emmanuel, Andrew Cuomo, to name a few).

Even though I completely disagree w/ the direction the Tea Party wants to take, I share their anger at the corruption.

-David

That's good news, right?? :D

Michale