And if we could trust the employees not to be sociopaths toward their employers, I'd say your idea would be fine..

A balance must be struck...

But it's like in the military..

The needs of the service come first...

Or, if you prefer the Trek version..

"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few... Or the one."

Michale

In any event, politically I value worker protection more than I value the concerns of business. Economic inequality is a serious issue, and as long as the minimum wage is less in real dollars than it was in the late 60s, I know that this disruptor of consumer spending will continue to have negative effects on the US economy.

I completely agree..

There SHOULD be a bottom line..

But that bottom line should NOT be determined by the wants for the employee...

It should be determined by the needs of the business..

Wouldn't you agree??

Michale

As far as raising the minimum wage so as to decrease the need for government assistance, isn't that the whole point? We're having spending battles constantly in Washington, if government can't afford to guarantee a minimum standard, then someone else has to, these people aren't going to work and work and work, and then starve simply because the Waldon family want another mansion.

But I think you hit on a great idea, YoYo..

We'll raise the minimum wage..

And eliminate ALL entitlements...

GREAT solution!! :D

Michale

I understand what you are saying and there is a certain logic to it.

However, as with most (if not ALL) of the Leftist/Progressive/Democrat ideals, it fails to take into account human nature..

What YOU call a "living wage" is, when one takes into account human nature, is simply "paying people NOT to work"..

Or, more accurately, "paying people NOT to strive, NOT to improve, NOT to better themselves."

People will ask themselves, "Why should I spend all that time in school and take all those MANAGER tests and all that crap when I can get the same pay just digging holes or flipping burgers??"

THAT, sad to say, is the American Reality in the here and now....

It's an entitlement mentality..

Michale

Let me answer your question with a question.

What IS the work??

A person who spends 8 hours discovering the cure for cancer SHOULD be paid more than a person who spends 8 hours flipping burgers, no??

I am not denigrating the person flipping burgers. Honest work is honest work. And I am certain that, after that scientist spent 8 hours curing cancer, he (or she) is gonna love that juicy burger the other guy (or girl) is cooking up...

Take me, for example. You can bring me a totally dead, busted up laptop and I can, within hours, have it cleaned up and working perfectly.. That would likely set you back $100..

Isn't THAT worth more than the guy who digs a hole for you in your front yard??

Again, I am not denigrating the hole digger. Honest work is honest work and it's ALL good..

But we have to face reality.. Some work is worth more than other work..

That's the problem with the entire Leftist/Progressive/Democrat ideology..

It wants to give people something for nothing.. It wants to give ditch-diggers and burger-flippers exorbitant pay that is not earned, not deserved. Pay on the level of someone who has strived and worked hard for years...

The entire Black Friday madness and violence is a symptom of this entitlement mentality.

It's a "It's all mine and screw you" mentality...

Or maybe business could simply pay a living wage.

Unfortunately, in the here and now, with the last 5+ years behind us, a "living wage" means ya gotta have a nice sports car or SUV, a 60-inch LED TV and an IPAD...

Reminds me of recently, the DC city council was harrassing WalMart because they were not paying a "living wage".. Turned out WalMart was paying their people MORE than some city workers..

If people want a better paying job, then THAT is an incentive to work HARDER and EARN it..

By taking away that incentive and giving people great pay up front, there is no incentive to better one's self...

Where is the logic in that??

By the by, did you ever catch that STAR TREK CONTINUES episode? :D

Michale

That's one way to look at it, but the real issue is how much is full time work worth? Because currently, if you work full time for minimum wage, you qualify for government assistance. Therefore ask yourself, is it right that their cost of living is being put on you, the taxpayer? Or maybe business could simply pay a living wage.

Was the economy in such bad shape during those minimum wage hikes??

No it was not..

Ergo, it is illogical to think that what applied then applies now...

Equally, you will never convince me that, "businesses will lose too much money and be forced to close" as long as their executives receive 7 & 8 figure pay packages. It's like Hostess going bankrupt immediately after giving the Executives millions.

I am not talking about large corps like Hostess or Wal Mart..

I am talking small businesses and mom and pop type shops and local small franchises..

If people want better pay, then let them work up into jobs that pay better.. Duuuhhhhhh

As I said, it's not rocket science. It's common sense..

Michale

#6

"Again, this isn't rocket science, people. It's common sense.."

It's also statistically incorrect.

There has not been a major jump in unemployment in any of the previous minimum wage hikes.

Yes Michale, you can find numerous complaints on Fox "News" or Real Clear Politics (should have been named real Right Politics)so save yourself the energy, take it as a given, & bounce your new grandson on your knee instead.

Instead you see what is going on with Wal-Mart now. They've decided that they've cut too many employees, have too large an employee turnover, & their employees morale is too low. They're getting too much bad press & so have decided to raise wages & number of employees merely as a business decision.

Equally, you will never convince me that, "businesses will lose too much money and be forced to close" as long as their executives receive 7 & 8 figure pay packages. It's like Hostess going bankrupt immediately after giving the Executives millions.

"obamacare is a perfect example"

You're suggesting the Government should not have paid to set up the web site?

YoYo

#2

Without a Presidential Campaign in 2014 (sorta of), there won't be the national attention to the Republican Primaries, though what we do hear of will be choice (Sharon Angle's chickens). Equally we have a couple of times where the Republican Establishment can sell out to Obama/stand for bi-partisanship; in yet more budget & debt ceiling bills. Disagree if you choose; but I don't see the Tea Party paying attention to the stop sign.

Businesses have to SPEND more to LESS employees so, at BEST, one will cancel out the other and the status quo will be maintained.

At worst, higher min wage WON'T lead to more revenue for businesses and businesses will lose too much money and be forced to close, thereby creating MORE unemployment..

Again, this isn't rocket science, people. It's common sense..

You would think that after 5+ years of reckless spending, the Administration would realize that you can't just throw money at a problem and it will automagically be fixed..

obamacare is a perfect example..

Michale

You'd be right, if the biggest driver of job creation wasn't consumer spending. People make more, then they spend more, and then there's more demand. It's really very simple.

Yea, because they have done such a bang up job of it so far...

Raising the Min Wage will HURT job creation, not help it...

Even a totally economic knuckle-drager like me knows that...

Michale

Also the fact that raising the minimum wage is probably the best method available just now to cut back on food stamps and stop Government hand outs to Corporations should be front and centre.

We don't know what's going to happen in the next year, but somethings are for sure. The republicans are going to have a nasty primary season, whether it will lead to "legitimate rape" scenarios or not remains to be seen, but it will be bruising for everyone involved. And it continues from March through September. So count on there being most of a year where "Republican Civil War" stories bounce around the media.

Anything Obamacare related at this point is conjecture. Will it be fixed? Is it a trainwreck forever? I'm soooooo tired of this debate. Everything that could be said, has been said, we're officially in wait and see mode people.

The Republicans though have put all their chips into Obamacare sucks. And it's not like they don't have a point. The website launch was a mess. But they still don't have a conservative alternative, or any real solution besides repeal and go back to the Rainmaker(either the book or movie is fine). So sure they can use their version of the bully pulpit to harangue, but unless they have some sort of contract with America hidden in their sleeve, I doubt we'll have any sort of coherent message, and that lack of a coherent message lets the Tea Party Candidates run around saying what they think, which is never all that good for the Republicans if those types of Candidates get the attention of the national media.

Democrats do have a platform of a sorts at the current moment. Immigration Reform, Non-discrimination Act, higher minimum wage, to name a few talking points. It remains to be seen whether any of these will stick, but as Chris said, the minimum wage is the most popular. One day strikes at Wal-mart and fast food chains speak to how dissatisfied minimum wage workers are at this time. Not mention that wonderful Wal-Mart here in Ohio that ran a can food drive so employees could give food to other employees. Plus tension between the 1% and 99% is just as corrosive as it's ever been. Or wall street vs. main street if you're on the conservative end ;-P.

However, we still have the 2nd midterm advantage that goes to the opposition party. How much of an advantage will this give the Republicans? It's really hard to say at this point. There's going to be a lot of "throw the bums out!" rhetoric bouncing around this election, especially since congress is about as popular as dog poop on your shoe. The question remains as to which party will better focus that ire onto their opposition. Not to mention the gerrymandering that leads to only a few swing seats and lots of safe ones.

Currently the Republicans hold the advantage here, but yes Democrats have benefited in the past, that doesn't mean gerrymandering is a good thing, half the reason there even is a republican civil war is that they've locked themselves into districts where tea partiers can win.

Conclusion? Null program. Too many unknowns. Democrats wan't Obamacare fixed, but it might not be. Republicans want it broken, but it might not be. Republicans in the house have a midterm advantage. Republicans in the house are about as popular as dog poop. Both sides are gerrymandered in, so the swing seats will be very few. Democrats might have a popular platform, Republicans might not need one if Obamacare doesn't turn itself around. And then we have the super long primary season coming up, and all the other nonsense that can happen in one year of politics. So currently I stand by original projection, seats might change hands but Republicans will still control the house and Democrats the Senate in December 2014.

the website is bound to start working at some point, people will be signing up for health insurance they can afford, and eventually all those horror stories can be balanced by "I have cancer and now I can get treated" success stories

And if you're wrong?

If the employment picture gets worse instead of better??

If there is just a small trickle of "success" stories and a whole flood of new "epic fail" stories??

What happens then??

Considering that there will be another round of Insurance Cancellations leading up to the mid-term election, this time being tens of millions of employer-based insurance cancellations, it's likely that your success stories will never materialize or will be drowned out..

What happens then?

Michale