What would you have said if something as bad as obamacare was rolled out under a GOP administration..

I think we ALL can agree that ya'all would be saying all the things I am saying with as much passion as I am saying it..

The only difference is that we would ALL be on the same page....

Think about it...

Michale

I kinda shattered the promise I gave to Liz about not showing so much er... enthusiasm for the trials and tribulations of obamacare..

But, can ya blame me?? We have been fed a steady diet of "if you like your insurance, you can keep your insurance" and "if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor" and "obamacare will lower costs" and on and on and on and on ad nasuem..

And we come to find out that it is complete and utter moose poop!! MOOSE POOP, I say!!!

So, of course I am going to comment while Obama and the entire Left feasts on crow.. Crow Pudding, Crow Steaks, Crow Souffle and mmmm mmmmm mmmmm mmmm good, Crow juice...

I am also constrained to point out how the Left has set the stage for this by mercilessly hounding and attacking Bush, even YEARS after he left office..

So, apologies for me rubbing ya'alls knowses :D (like that?? I thought of it myself... :D) in it..

I am more than certain that ya'all would have returned the favor if obamacare had been the sterling and smooth running operation ya'all had hoped it would have been...

The only question really is, is how long Obama and the Democrats will hold out before they bow to the will of over 70% of Americans and impose a 1 year delay...

When THAT happens, oh my gods, I am going to be insufferable.. :D

Michale

Could things possibly get more screwed up with obamacare!!!???

ObamaCare screw up sends callers to cupcake shop
http://nypost.com/2013/10/30/businesses-overwhelmed-by-callers-after-obamacare-enrollment-listing-error/

Dozens of businesses are being inundated with calls because the obamacare website listed their phone numbers as "navigator sites"...

Are you frakin' KIDDING me!!???

These are hard working Americans and immigrants who are just trying to make it in a tough economy!!

And obamcare couldn't take the time to make sure they had the right info!!???

Again... Are you frakin' KIDDING me!!!???

The hits just keep coming and coming...

How ANYONE could not think obamacare is a train wreck is beyond me...

Michale

Insurers Oppose Obamacare Extension as Danger to Profits
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-10-30/insurers-oppose-obamacare-extension-as-danger-to-profits.html

THAT is why Obama and the Democrats didn't want to delay obamacare..

It would have put a huge dent in the *PROFITS* of their corporate cronies...

Apparently, Obama and the Democrats are as greedy and as self-serving as ya'all accuse Republicans of being..

WHO wouldn've thunked it??

Oh.. wait....

Michale

SOWELL: The race-hustlers among us
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/oct/22/sowell-the-race-hustlers-among-us/

What a very uplifting story...

And it's so dead on ballz accurate, it's scary...

Michale

Is it possible that the Obama Administration perhaps has bit off more than it can chew??

Michale

You would think so..

Yet, apparently this particular website is defying that common aphorism..

There is no doubt that obamacare is a COMPLEX and intricate website..

But, it is still just a website...

" 'JUST' a motorcycle, Mr C.!?? And I suppose your mother was 'JUST' a mother!!!"
-The Fonz, HAPPY DAYS

:D

Michale

If it's just a website, then it's easy to fix. No?

I mean, it's not like website technology is an unknown like the cure for cancer.

"Gentlemen, we can rebuild him. We have the technology" - Oscar Goldman, Intro to the Six Million Dollar Man

-David

THAT is what obamacare is all about.. Pure and simple... It is obamacare's entire raison d'être

Ya know, the more I think about it, the more dead on ballz accurate it is..

Go ahead.. YOU try it. Think about it I mean..

obamacare doesn't provide medical care. Hospitals and doctors do that.

obamacare doesn't pay for that medical care. obamacare doesn't collect the payments from the patients. Insurance companies do that.

obamacare doesn't even collect the penalties for NOT having insurance. The IRS does that..

obamacare's SOLE function, it's ENTIRE reason for existence, is to facilitate people signing up for health insurance..

In essence, obamacare *IS* just a website...

Michale

"People have disrupted space stations before, Mr Barris. That doesn't make them Klingon spies. Sometimes, all you need is a title. Au'revoir."
-Captain James T Kirk, STAR TREK, The Trouble With Tribbles

:D

Michale

If you don't believe me, google "obamacare rollout"...

It will be an eye opener if you honestly believe obamacare hasn't "started yet"...

The online component is the biggest part, nearly the ONLY part, of obamacare..

All the other components are handed off to the caregivers and the insurance companies and they deal with each other.

But putting together Americans with health insurance??

THAT is what obamacare is all about.. Pure and simple... It is obamacare's entire raison d'être

And, to date, it has been an utter and unequivocally dismal failure...

These are the facts. And they are indisputable...

Michale

On the one hand, he knew and authorized spying on allies... That's bad (at least from ya'alls perspective. More on that in a few)..

On the other hand, he did NOT know and his intelligence people have run amok..

In THAT case, he is an incompetent leader...

Either way, it does not bode well for Obama or the administration..

Let me state unequivocally that I don't have a problem with the actions themselves..

I have more than a passing knowledge in the field (to say the least) and I know for an absolute fact that our intelligence assets spy on anyone and everyone. Just like the intelligence assets of the UK, Germany, Spain, Israel etc etc spy on us..

It's the nature of the beast. It is simply the way things are...

The reason our allies are bitching is SOLELY and COMPLETELY because it has become common knowledge..

A secondary reason why our allies are bitching is because of the realization that we're so damn good at it..

But, make no mistake. We spy on our allies. Our allies KNOW that we spy on our allies. Our allies spy on us..

It is what it is...

Michale

White House OKd spying on allies, U.S. intelligence officials say
http://www.latimes.com/world/la-fg-spying-phones-20131029,0,3235295.story#axzz2j6uzYO7N

Now THIS hits a LOT closer to home for Lefties...

Michale

And this is not a "Bush" lie... I.E. being simply wrong.

Obama *KNEW* that millions of Americans would lose their health insurance planse.

He KNEW.. Abso-tively and posit-loutly *KNEW* that millions of Americans would lose their health insurance..

And yet, he STILL said, "IF YOU LIKE YOUR HEALTH INSURANCE, YOU CAN KEEP YOUR HEALTH INSURANCE"

Now THAT is a text book unequivocal and indefensible definition of a lie...

These are the facts.. Concede the point and we can move on..

Michale

Citing Breibart.com is not a positive.

Where did I "cite" Brietbart??

Near as I can tell, the only time I listed Breitbart was with that awesome PR campaign mounted by the GOP.

If anyone was objective about things (like I am) they would concede that point.

As far as the other issues, you can be tedious.

Translation: Yer right and it's annoying...

Gotcha {{wink}} {{wink}} :D

You recite the same talking points over & over. As an example, you assert "ObamaCare" is a, "slow-motion train-wreck". Even though it's been pointed out time & time again that THE SYSTEM ISN'T IN OPERATION YET.

You are in error. obamacare started 1 Oct. And it's a train wreck..

The online component IS obamacare. Just as the online component IS GTA V....

No President Obama didn't lie. Unless you like the idea of keeping people in inferior health insurance. No smoking gun, just you playing definition games.

Not at all..

Obama said, "IF YOU LIKE YOUR HEALTH INSURANCE, YOU CAN KEEP YOUR HEALTH INSURANCE"..

He didn't say ANYTHING about whether it's inferior or not based on certain arbitrary standards..

He said, "IF YOU LIKE YOUR HEALTH INSURANCE, YOU CAN KEEP YOUR HEALTH INSURANCE"..

And he KNEW this was not going to be true...

This lame attempt at defending Obama is EXACTLY what I was talking about in #26..

You are wrong. Obama lied.. And, apparently, a POTUS lying is a VERY serious affair..

At least, it is with a GOP POTUS. Maybe a DEM POTUS has different standards, I don't know..

But the facts are clear.

Obama lied.

You know it, I know it...

Michale

Citing Breibart.com is not a positive.

As far as the other issues, you can be tedious.

You recite the same talking points over & over. As an example, you assert "ObamaCare" is a, "slow-motion train-wreck". Even though it's been pointed out time & time again that THE SYSTEM ISN'T IN OPERATION YET.

You report, with glee, #31 which clearly states, "existing policies don’t meet the standards mandated by the new health care law". WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT I SAID in the last thread.

No President Obama didn't lie. Unless you like the idea of keeping people in inferior health insurance. No smoking gun, just you playing definition games.

Kevin,

I understand & sympathize.

And there is your smoking gun, ladies and gentlemen...

Obama know.. And he lied straight to our faces...

Michale

This entire slow-motion train-wreck has been engineered, aided and abetted by Obama and the Democrats...

If the GOP had ANY sense at all (which we all know is simply not the case) they would simply step aside and let obamacare eviscerate the entire Obama administration...

But no one ever went broke betting on the stoopidity of politicians...

Michale

It seems that MILLIONS more are getting their insurance CANCELLED than are able to sign up for health insurance...

Wasn't obamacare supposed to BRING people to health insurance??

Not chase them away from it???

"Yes. Yes, I think I read that somewhere."
-Jack Nicholson, A FEW GOOD MEN

Michale

Is it that time of the year already, Liz?

Whew. Seems like we just did this around a pretty big election :)

Ok ... I'm ready!

-David

http://cdn.breitbart.com/mediaserver/Breitbart/Big-Government/2013/10/28/obama_404_error.jpg

THAT is clever marketing... :D

Michale

To date, my humbleness has prevented me from participating in the comment thread that liberally bears my name..

Then it occurred to me..

I HAVE no humbleness!! :D

I am truly honored to see such support and I will do my best to step up... er... down? to the challenge..

Seriously, I can understand Kevin's frustration. But, to be perfectly honest, a lot of it is the results of action, or more accurately, INACTION from people like him..

See!!? No humbleness!!! :D (so much for serious, eh? )

My point is this. As LD so surprisingly points out, there are times that I *AM* right.. While I am sure we would disagree vehemently as to how many times that is, the common ground is that we do agree that it DOES happen..

So, why not concede those times? I won't think any less of anyone if they say, "Ya know, Michale?? You are dead on and I concede the point"... Gods know I do it often enough so I have shown ya'all MANY times HOW to do it?? :D

Put another way, Kevin.. If you would concede at, say post #2, "Yea, Michale. When yer right, yer right" then I wouldn't have to spend 20-30 MORE posts bringing about the same concession via silence...

It's the bigotry argument in spades..

For those who are new to Weigantia, one of my favorite arguments was The Bigotry Argument. Unfortunately my lack of finesse by making the argument caused some hurt feelings, but the essence of the argument was that political bigotry is still bigotry.. We went back and forth and back and forth ("Ya'all bigots!!" "No, we're not!!", "Yes ya'all are!!") and so on ad nasuem. Of course, the arguments had more substance on both sides, but that was pretty much the gist of the argument..

So then CW sat down and thought (and actually said!!! :D) "ya know, Michale is right! We ARE bigots!!!"

http://www.chrisweigant.com/2012/08/27/embracing-bigotry/

"Full credit where it's due, Michale gave me the idea last Friday."

So, in one fell swoop, CW totally negated my numero uno argument. Well, one of them anyways...

In short (yea, I know I know. It's MUCH too late for that!!) my dear friend Kevin (and I DO mean "friend" insofar as one can have "friends" that they have never seen, met or had a beer with)...

If 6+ years of being a regular on CW.COM has taught me ANYTHING.... It's that the quickest way to END a debate is to concede the point.. But don't concede the point simply TO end the debate. Concede the point when it's truly a valid and accurate point.

Keep that in mind and you'll see a LOT less posts from me..

The current obamacare train-wreck is a perfect example.. You don't want to see 100+ posts from me SHOWING exactly how and why obamacare is a train-wreck??? Then concede the point..

Because, no matter HOW you slice it, no matter HOW you spin it, in the here and now, obamacare is a train-wreck.. It might get better... It might not.. But NO ONE, simply NO ONE can say with a straight face that obamacare is anything but a train-wreck in the here and now..

So, stop me from stating the obvious. Simply concede the point.. Granted, I'll likely bring your concession up now and again to play with :D but is that truly such a horrendously large price to pay to avoid 100+ Michale posts???

Yer call, dood.. :D

Michale

White House glitches go beyond Obamacare
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/6a192e9c-3c9a-11e3-86ef-00144feab7de.html#axzz2j0s5ygpd

While the Republicans do not escape unscathed, as it should be, the article pinpoints exactly why and how obamacare went wrong and puts the blame squarely in Obama's lap.

AS IT SHOULD BE...

Com'on people.. Obama frak'ed up! Admit it!

That's been my biggest frustration around here for the last 4 years..

In ya'alls eyes, when it comes to policy and the American people, Obama can do no wrong.

CW has been getting better about calling a spade a spade (and that's not racist no matter HOW anyone tries to spin it!! :D) but even he doesn't lay the blame squarely at Obama's feet, as it should be..

There comes a time when a rational person must admit that their guy is the problem..

"OK... So.... She's a dog"
-Peter Venkmen, GHOSTBUSTERS

:D

Ya'all read that article and tell me that that time is not now...

If obamacare has proven anything, if Syria has proven anything, if Saudi's finger has proven anything, if NSA spying revelations have proven anythig it's that Obama's narcissistic and insulated form of "leadership" well and truly sucks..

Let's just all concede that and then we can move on...

"Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing."
-Sybok, STAR TREK V

:D

It's actually a burst of galactic irony that, in my not so humble opinion, Obama's only, I repeat... *ONLY* success as POTUS has been the continuation and expansion of Bush's CT policies. Policies that the Left SHOULD hate with all their fiber and being..

Howz THAT for irony, eh?? :D

Michale

That is the largest truism of the here and now...

Obama's legacy won't be the train-wreck that is our health-care system.

It will be how Obama has systematically dismantled our foreign policy status across the world and has made our friends wary of us, the neutrals condemn us and our enemies laugh at us.

THAT is going to be Obama's legacy. He has made the future very very dangerous for the US and Americans world wide.

Michale

The Leno quote <i>is</i> hilarious! Don't let anyone inhibit you. We all appreciate your $upport! You're as dogmatic as anyone, but civil, you've got a brain and you're not afraid to use it, and on (rare) occasions you're even right! We're all the better thanks to you keeping this from being an echo-chamber. I'm positive I've annoyed you on occasion <i>at least</i> as much as you've ever annoyed me! (If not, let me know. I'll make a note to try harder!) But that just "stimulates the little grey cells!"

Ya'all claim that obamacare is a step towards single payer.

Yet obamacare is a complete and utter train wreck..

So, why in the HELL would the American people want to go FURTHER than obamacare along that train strewed road??

If obamacare is a step towards single payer and obamacare is such a mess, it seems to me that the logical choice for the American people would be to go in the OPPOSITE direction that obamacare is pushing them.

It's like thinking that a guy who can't handle carrying 1000 pounds should be able to carry 10,000 pounds..

It's illogic extremus...

Michale

I think John Stewart had the best comment about the 'tech surge'.

It went something along the lines of "We need to do the same thing to the website as we did to Iraq?"

:)

Me personally, I hate the phrase 'tech surge'. Just get it fixed folks.

It is interesting though that Republicans are now screaming 'fix it'. What happens when it gets fixed? Any guesses as to whether or not they'll be happy :)

-David

Now, I don't care WHO you are, that right thar is funny as hell! :D

Michale

Haha speak of the Devil: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/26/vermont-health-care_n_4166221.html

I guess I'm still relatively a noob but I'm going to side with the others on this - unless Michale is using hateful, racist language (etc), which he isn't, then I think he should be allowed to post as he sees fit. Some of his posts are (I would hope) just him playing devil's advocate in jest - although I fear that this (worryingly) might not be true on many issues!

I quite like his posts. Part of debating US politics is dealing with extreme, far-right, anecdotal based points of view ala Drudge, Fox, Limbaugh. Sometimes they make you angry that someone could say something so ridiculous. The smarter people need to learn to respond to such remarks (unlike Grayson did) using facts, logic, ration and data. There are some points where you simply have to call it for what it is - if someone is arguing the sky is pink then there is very little you can do except point out that they should seek psychological help.

And in such times you simply have to give up and say 'this person is completely brainwashed and, until they leave the echo chamber, debating them is pointless'. But at other times there is room to sharpen your own point of view on many issues - and (very occasionally) even reconsider some things.

I would like to encourage some more Conservative thinking (not ridiculously far-right wing) points of view on here. But I fear that in America no such things exist (or they're already Democrats!). Michale - like it or not - represents where the Republican party is ideologically today.

Wow sorry, didn't realize this would be so long!

Eventually once people realize that access to affordable ('affordable' should be replaced with 'free') healthcare is a good thing and a fundamental human right, then you'll be on the way to having a proper modern developed countries* healthcare system. Obama-care will fix many problems in your broken system, but not all of them. When this is realized, people will look for ways to fix the other problems which will lead you to a public option.

I don't know if it's possible, but I would imagine that a State like California will probably lead the way - like Massachusetts did with Obama-care - in implementing a public option system, then the other States will follow suite...

*Not to insult the many developing countries who have better healthcare systems than the USA, but it is mostly Western developed nations who do.

I suppose I wait for the day when he'll throw his hands up and move towards the light : )

His posts are sooo long that I mostly don't read them and his arguments are circular. *Hint to Michale: focus and edit!

I guess we function as proxies for everything that enrages him about the left; certainly for me he functions as a proxy for righties I occasionally want to punch.

I got 1233hrs... :D

Michale

Has anyone ever mentioned that you have bad timing?

We should be coming up with ways to increase Michale's daily comments, not reduce them!

Don't you know what time it is?

One technique I used to see at zoos was a monkey gathering a crowd of visitors with some amusing behavior. When the crowd was deep enough, the monkey would suddenly urinate on the front rows. The front row spectators would gasp and rush back. Spectators in the back, with a limited view, would push forward to see what the commotion was all about, and the monkey would spray them too.

This does resemble some of what goes on in modern congressional hearings.

That's not entirely accurate..

The number 1 priority of obamacare was to bring health insurance to the masses..

The number 1 way to do that is a website..

To say that obamacare is not just a website is to say that GTA V is not just an online experience.

While technically accurate, the simple fact is, it's the online component that MAKES it or BREAKS it..

If GTA V had the kind of train-wreck rollout that obamacare has had, you can bet that heads... TOP LEVEL heads.. would roll and the game would likely never recover..

Michale

This moronic statement of Democrat Grayson is especially ironic, since it's the Democratic Party who was the Party of the KKK...

Something about history, doomed and repetition comes to mind. :D

To say the Obamacare exchange website -- now almost four weeks old -- was "disappointing" would be to severely understate the situation.

To say it is a "train wreck" would be dead on ballz accurate. :D

Who could have guessed that this would happen..

Oh wait.. :D

That is unknown, but one would assume not. Such decisions were likely delegated down the chain of command, with Sebelius doing nothing more than oversight of the whole process.

Irrelevant.

Sebelius was in command. The buck stops with her.

If it was a GOP Administration that rolled out this train wreck, the Left would be howling for her head, regardless of her particular political affiliation...

I'll get to the talking points later....

Michale

I don't agree with much of what Michael writes, but he's never abusive and I have to admire his productivity and passion (where does he find the time?). The game's no fun without some worthy opponents. Michael isn't a cheerleader, but he is an antidote to group think.

Any post can easily be avoided, for any reason, using the scroll bar, or the little wheelie thing on the mouse that I always forget I have. No challenge need ever be accepted. Let's avoid drastic solutions to non problems.

"slain, after all man's devices had failed, by the humblest things that God, in his wisdom, has put upon this earth."

In short, it wasn't Republican opposition that ultimately halted Obama Care, it was just some damn bugs.

Unlike H. G. Wells slain Martians, Affordable Health Care should only need a few weeks of bed rest to get up and about. It might have to things easy for the first couple of months. Obama Care is secretly enjoying all the attention it's getting. So many visitors, even if the nurse must send most away to the waiting room. So many get well cards! "Why, I have lots of well wishers!" says Affordable Health Care.

Further breaking with the novel (even more than most movie adaptations)it's Republicans who are wailing a mournful ulla, ulla, ulla, ulla on most media outlets. A notable exception being Ted (Thunder Child) Cruze, who seems delighted with his own prospects, like a dog with a hunk of rotting Martian flesh in it's jaws (grossly graphic, but hey don't blame TheStig, address complaints to H. G. Wells).

There, I've gotten in my annual War of the World's references, just in time for Halloween!

Since this is another column on Obamacare, that means another 60+ comment thread with 50 of them being Michale's usual 50 blurts of BS.
Could you please, please, PLEASE come up with some way to limit him to 5 comments and then cut him off?

I'm getting tired of seeing how many comments are on a thread, guessing how many will be Michale's predictable ravings, and then checking for myself and finding out I was only one or two off in my guesstimate.

You know I appreciate your work and thoughts, but I really am sick and tired of wanting to pull out what little hair I have left scrolling through a long comment thread to get to the good stuff by everyone else. The new commenters are uniformly thoughtful and well-informed; but Michale gives me an enormous headache with his predictability and verbosity...he's incapable of making his nonsensical points succinctly.

And now he'll accuse me of cowardice for not trying to rebut each of his idiocies point by point, and claim "victory" because I can't be bothered wasting my life. So boring and predictable.

Sigh...anyway, end of my rant. I am really enjoying the new commenters and would like to thank them...they're thoughtful and nicely breakup the endless Michale foamings.

P.S.- I'd make an exception to Michale's five comment limit so he could respond to individual posts, but only if he could do it in one reply instead of his usual barrage of sanctimonius tripe.

P.P.S.-for an example of what I'm complaining about, see last week's Friday Talking Points - I knew Michale would bang his little drum ad infinitum, and sure enough he did...snore.