it does seem fantastical that human beings could have such a big effect, but there it is in black and white. regardless of what we think we're capable of, the factual change has been dramatic.

http://www.sciencemag.org/content/326/5958/1394.abstract

read a book!
~handy - 'the tick'

that's because I've read it and it's neither good nor solid.

your reading comprehension skills leave much to be desired, and each of the myths you cite are addressed in the website using directly observable, factual evidence, here:

http://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php

the studies the article cites are linked to, and can be read for their methodology and results. energy on the planet is constantly moving around, and most of it is not reflected in surface air temperature. you aren't wrong because of some religious belief, you're wrong because the energies absorbed by the atmosphere, geosphere, hydrosphere, cryosphere and biosphere have all been directly measured and calculated. the overall heat on the planet has continued to increase regardless of seemingly counterintuitive fluctuations in surface air temperature. that part is not conjecture or religion, it's fact.

JL

For example.. A decade ago, British "scientists" warned that their children might never ever see snow..

Than 6-7 years later, the UK was hit with massive snowstorms that buried the island...

THEN, the Brit "scientists" said, "oh well all this massive snow ALSO is caused by global warming"...

You see how completely and utterly ridiculous that sounds??

With being wrong time after time after time after time, well, you can readily understand why I am skeptical.

I have no doubt that there is good solid science that supports the Human Caused Global Warming theory.

But what YA'ALL refuse to accept is that there is good solid science that DISPUTES the theory..

We don't know enough to even know what we don't know...

It's really that simple...

Michale

re: #20...

Three Points..

1. Human Caused Global Warming (Yet The Planet Is Cooling) modeling has been going on for, what now?? 20 Years???

And in ALL that time, not one single model has been right.. Not one single model has been successful in predicting ANYTHING.. Not one single prediction made by the Human Caused Global Warming (Yet The Planet Is Cooling) religion has EVER BEEN RIGHT.. Some of those predictions have not only failed to come to pass, they have SPECTACULARLY and EPICALLY failed to come to pass..

"Failed! Failed! Impressively failed!"
-NASA Doctor, ARMAGEDDON

2. CO2 emissions have been rising as predicted. Yet there has been absolutely NO measurable or statistically significant rise in temperatures to correspond with that rise in C02... EVERY scientist in the world CANNOT EXPLAIN WHY...

3. I forgot 3, but will remember again, I am sure.. :D

My point is simple.. The "science" has been wrong time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time again..

Yet people STILL believe that Human Caused Global Warming exists..

That's not science.. That's religious style faith, pure and simple...

Do you honestly believe that human kind, which is nothing more than a minute pin-prick on a wart on the butt of the totality that is time, do you honestly believe that we could have ANY effect on a natural process that has existed for billions of years and got along just fine without us????

"That's..... arrogant presumption"
-Captain James T. Kirk, STAR TREK IV, The Voyage Home

To put it in mathematical terms, human kind has been industrial for .00000177% that the earth has existed....

Forget about climate "science", let's just talk common sense...

Do you honestly believe that human kind could have ANY discernible effect on a planet that they have only been industrial for that minute fraction???

To give you an analogy, it would be as if a baby that is 7 seconds old could beat the best chess player or take on the best pro wrestler...

It is a physical and mental impossibility..

As is the idea that humans can actually change the course of climate..

We might as well be able to change the course of this planet's orbit.

It is a physical and mental impossibility..

It's really that simple..

And, for the record, I read your posted article..

It reminded me of bible passages..

"Everything that happens is because of Human Caused Global Warming... If it's too warm, it's because of global warming. If it's too cold, that's because of global warming. If it's too dry, that's because of global warming, if it's too wet, that's because of global warming. It's all the will of global warming"

And you call that science?? :D

Michale

Actually, it still is displayed exactly as I posted it. Because there are no letters corresponding with the number 1 on the phone pad..

So it IS 1-800-F UCKYO with a space where the '1' would be..

All partisan BS aside, ya gotta admit.. It's a PR screw-up that far surpasses the Win The Future debacle.. :D

I'll get to the rest later today..

Michale

Nice use of "moose poop." Just had to say that.

Heh.

-CW

What, exactly, have the Republicans "compromised" on? What have they given ground on, outside of their hostage-taking on Obamacare? Nothing, as far as I can see.

Senate and House Dems tried 18 times in the past year to get House and Senate GOP on board with a conference committee. Every single time, the GOP blocked it. They were terrified of any pratical, workable compromise. And now they're complaining?

Puh-leeeze.

-CW

Forget hot sauce. I predicted Boehner would never be stupid enough to go this far. I'm eating humble pie right now, would you like a slice?

Heh.

-CW

Stutzman indeed took the cake this week, for accidentally admitting how clueless the Tea Partiers truly are.

:-)

-CW

michale, this particular piece of moose poop irks me because you don't seem to be learning anything from prior discussions or evidence that has been presented therein. stating the same misleading half-truth over and over even though the more complex factual picture has been well established, is just as fundamentalist a religious belief as any doomsday scenario al gore could dream up.

since i do need to sleep and have soccer in the morning, here's a helpful site to refresh your memory:

http://www.skepticalscience.com/global-cooling-basic.htm

please read both basic and intermediate in their entirety before responding.

JL

Facts? You mean, like poll numbers?

Heh. Couldn't resist.

-CW

Oh, snap! Even better!

I posted a comment on an earlier article, this is the best I've heard it put (but yours comes in a close second):

GOP: Obama must resign now, or we'll tank the economy.

Obama: No.

GOP: OK, Obama must resign one year from now, or we'll tank the economy now.

Obama: No. There was an election, guys...

GOP: Obama won't compromise! Waaaah! We're shutting the government down!

But I still like yours, too...

-CW

Excellent comment. And welcome back!

:-)

-CW

You realize, of course, that a customer support system that is overwhelmed means that an overwhelming amount of people want to be customers?

Seems this contradicts the straight GOP party line "everybody hates Obamacare", no???

Heh.

If Obamacare is so horrendous, then why oh why are millions of people trying to sign up for it the first week it's available? Wonder what Spock would have to say about that "logic"...

:-)

-CW

(1) the whole "spitting on Vietnam vets" thing is more an urban myth than fact, sorry. Kind of like the "Tea Partiers spitting on black congressmen going to work" myth -- remember that one?

(2) the people doing so (if there indeed were any) were not Democrats by that point -- after Chicago in 1968, they had given up on the two-party system entirely. Kind of like the (very early) Tea Party.

-CW

OK, here's an answer: because slipping the business deadline one year was due to the paperwork being too onerous, and the business complaining. This will only affect small businesses, though -- a total of 5% of all businesses in the US are affected by what was pushed back one year.

It's a small part of Obamacare, and it doesn't impact the major program. And, it was to help small businesses, not "Big Business". Fox has been lying to you.

The individual mandate, however, is one of the major parts of the program. To delay it would delay the whole program. That's why it won't be delayed.

-CW

Fixed.

-CW

Except, of course, that that's only six digits. Because this story is false. There's a "1" in there they conveniently forgot about...

-CW

Words that Democrats should take heed..

The Republicans have already compromised up the wazoo...

Now all that they (AND the American People) are asking is that everyday middle class Americans get the same consideration that Obama and the Democrats gave their corporate cronies..

I honestly and truly am shocked that ya'all are fighting ON BEHALF of the corporate cronies AGAINST the middle class...

Once again, the power of the almighty '-D' at work......

Michale

Given what we know NOW....

obamacare is a train wreck...

That could change in the future...

But for the here and now..

obamacare is a train wreck...

Michale

obamacare's ONLY recognized enrollee was bogus...

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-10-04/is-obamacare-s-first-enrollee-bogus-.html

Does ANYONE know of a person who actually was able to enroll in obamacare???

Michale

fair enough, i said it would be over thursday and i'm eating my words with hot sauce.

But you have to concede. As obamacare is evaluated right at this moment, it's a disaster. An unmitigated and unequivocal disaster.

not at all. at the moment it's not a train wreck, just a traffic jam. social security and medicare still have glitches even now, and they're both extremely old and extremely successful. be a little more patient; over the course of the next year or so we'll find out whether obamacare holds water.

Ms. Vito, please answer the question: does the defense's case hold water?
~MCV

That's ALL Democrats have to do...

I guess that, for Democrats, making sure their corporate cronies enjoy a windfall is more important than the will of the American people.

These are the facts...

Michale

Whenever Democrats don't get there way, yes. It's going to happen...

Michale

Oh, that's easy..

Because Democrats wouldn't compromise and give Middle Class Americans the same delay that they gave their corporate cronies..

Michale

Yeh give us something or we won't do anything! Sums up the GOP hostage situation perfectly.

I just realised today that apparent Moby has very similar views to me on American politics:

"Obama has made a lot of mistakes, but I do think ultimately he's very strategically trying to advance a progressive agenda within the framework of the power structure of the United States. I don't agree with everything he does, but I don't think he's done anything too egregious; a lot of the policies he's criticized for were actually started before he was president," says Moby.

While Moby doesn't give Obama's presidency anything higher than 'a solid B,' he gives George W Bush's presidency a D-minus and as for the Tea Party wing of the Republican party, well, he says they are "batshit-fucking-racist-atavistic-crazy."

Whenever they don't get their way, is this going to happen?

-David

The only thing I have seen coming from the Left is hysterical emotionalism...

Michale

http://s3.amazonaws.com/dk-production/images/51524/large/tumblr_mu2ai6sgfU1qat9xfo1_500.png?1380814234

What actually amazes me, since the media has been largely bought or cowed by conservatives, is how many people still fight through the endless torrent of bullshit.

-David

Long on hysterical partisan bigotry..

Not a fact in sight..

Good ta have ya back! :D

Michale

Democrats = We'd like to meet to begin formal discussions on a CR for the Government.
Republicans = No, we'd only like to meet 1 week before the budget date. And it's nothing to do with us wanting to take the country hostage, it's because you know we're busy and stuff

Repeat the above 18 times for every formal Democrat request. Fast forward to 1 week before budget due date

Democrats = We propose this budget
Republicans = Your spending is too high, we propose this reduced spending budget
Democrats = Ok fine. We compromise and accept your reduced spending budget.
Republicans = Sorry we changed our minds. We now propose a reduced spending budget with an add on that requires Obama to shoot himself in the face.
Democrats = ???? WTF, what on earth is wrong with you morons. Of course we're not going to accept that...
Republicans = Ok let's compromise 'we only want him to shoot himself in the stomcach now'.
Democrats = You guys are out of your mind.
Republicans = Fine. We'll compromise further. 'We only want him to shoot himself in the foot now'. That's it. We're done.
Democrats = You've got to be kidding me, just pass the God damn reduced spending bill we negotiated. Heck we'll even run it through the Senate.
Republicans = OMG I CAN'T BELIEVE OBAMA WON'T NEGOTIATE ON THIS - HE WON'T COMPROMISE! HE IS THE DEVIL, SOCIALIST, EVIL etc etc etc

Thanks! I'm not going to lie, part of me was intrigued to see how Fox/Drudge/Right-wing-echo chamber could possibly spin this as Obama's fault. Then I thought rather than go to their sites, I'd just come back on hear and read Michale's comments and save the time!

And I can't say I've been disappointed. Beauties like this classic Michale use of the word 'facts':

This shutdown is completely and unequivocally owned by Obama and the Democrats...

These are the facts...

I think of an analogy of how this entire budget fiasco played out as akin to the following stages:
1. Don't pass any budget bill, veto all meetings and ensure it will come down to the last minute.
2. At the last minute introduce a budget bill that requires Obama to shoot himself in the face.
3. Ok let's compromise 'we only want him to shoot himself in the stomcach now'.
4. Fine. We'll compromise further. 'We only want him to shoot himself in the foot now'. That's it. We're done. OMG I CAN'T BELIEVE OBAMA WON'T NEGOTIATE ON THIS - HE WON'T COMPROMISE! HE IS THE DEVIL, SOCIALIST, EVIL etc etc etc

The whole thing is hilarious. It just shows you how pathetic the echo chamber is that the Republicans can play this game and not be absolutely destroyed by the American people (yes polls show they are taking a hit, but not as big as it should be).

How long as the Obama administration had to prepare for this day??

A couple YEARS!????

There is absolutely NO EXCUSE for these kinds of problems to be happening..

If the administration truly believed that obamacare is as good as they SAID it was, then it would have been the SMART move to prepare for such "popularity", right???

No excuse whatsoever for the glitches that are happening.

It is incompetence, pure and simple...

Michale

I was actually referring to the shut down. :D

I agree that, as far as obamacare goes, it might get better.

But you have to concede. As obamacare is evaluated right at this moment, it's a disaster. An unmitigated and unequivocal disaster.

Michale

JL

NOW you're getting delusional ;)

trains can't wreck when they haven't started moving yet. talk to me in a year when there will be sufficient data to make an informed judgment. i'm open to the possibility that you may turn out to be right, but trying to claim now that your point of view has been vindicated by less than a week of clerical errors? that's just plain absurd.

JL

http://www.tennessean.com/article/20131002/BUSINESS05/310020123/2265/BUSINESS05?gcheck=1&nclick_check=1

Time to hit the phones. On the contact page of healthcare.gov, there’s a tab that says “Find local help.” I entered my ZIP code and pulled up the names of several places that should have resources. First on the list was the Nashville Academy of Medicine, which I called at 9:48 a.m. and was promptly and very politely put on hold.

“OK, ma’am,” said a nice lady at 9:51 a.m., “we have not been trained yet. We are listed on there, but we are not the appropriate people to help.” She recommended I call an organization called Health Assist.

Get that??

obamacare operators "haven't been trained yet"!

What the frak are they waiting for???

So I did. “Unfortunately we don’t have any exact pricing information that’s ready right now,” said another kind person. If I wanted to enroll via phone, she said, I could call the federal assistance line.

The obamacare information line didn't have pricing yet..

Again, what the frak are they waiting for??

By this time, it was 10:33 a.m. I tried calling local “navigators,” or people trained to guide those of us seeking insurance through the exchange. I’ll skim the next part of the story, which involves a string of robots telling me that my call was very important, putting me on hold, then dropping the line.

That's a great way to treat customers. Put them on hold and then disconnect them...

11:39 a.m.: No more robots, I was going to find a human being. I drove to the address from the lady on the government help line. Now, I understand that some help centers are up and running throughout the city, but this particular location was a vacant building next to a Holiday Inn Express. At 12:20 p.m., I exited the premises defeated and uninsured.

Needs no clarification....

I bet Obama and the Democrats are wishing they would have agreed to that one year delay for EVERYONE, instead of just their corporate cronies, eh?

Michale

I am also constrained to point out (again) that this is what the American people want.

To get rid of obamacare...

So, when you get right down to it, the Republicans are doing their jobs by serving the interests of the American people.

And it's Obama and the Democrats who are screwing over and ignoring the American people..

Food for thought....

Michale

Allow me to clarify that..

I don't like obamacare because it claims to lower costs, but it raises them.

It claims to have low insurance rates but most rates are actually higher, sometimes as much as 4 times higher..

It will force doctors to close their practices because they can't afford to stay in business.

It has forced businesses to cut employees hours and pay..

So, I don't like obamacare for all those reasons..

BUT...

But if it didn't FORCE American citizens into insurance that they can't afford and doesn't cover anything, then all those reasons why I hate obamacare wouldn't matter...

obamacare is not good for this country.

And, as has become painfully clear in the last 3 days, obamacare is a train wreck..

It might get better.

It might not.

But it is simply undeniable that, as of this moment in time, obamacare is a train wreck..

Michale

How about this though as a compromise, Michale

... what if we went with the public option and no mandate?

My only problem with obamacare is the mandate...

You get rid of the mandate and I probably still won't like obamacare, but at least it's not forced on the American people..

JL,

Sounds to me like it's the Republicans who have the better technique than the Democrats.

Ask for a LOT more than you really want and then compromise down to what you wanted in the first place..

Makes sense to me. :D

By the bi..

NOW ya gotta pay up! :D

Michale

that was their position from the get-go anyway. we may quibble over whether that's a good thing or a bad thing, but there's little doubt that the "one-year delay" is just a stall tactic to give them time to find a more permanent way to end the ACA before it begins.

The republican tactic has generally been to start from their most extreme position to begin with, so there really isn't much further for them to go. dems on the other hand tend to start from a position they consider "reasonable," and then "compromise" on what the republicans really wanted anyway. of course, maybe that's all a show and it's what the democrats wanted too, but that's a question for another time i suppose.

JL

-David

Show me another dozen of those type polls and you might have an argument.

Only because a dozen polls don't exist :)

Let's be honest though. It probably wouldn't matter.

-David

But we're NOT going to "do it"...

The corporate cronies got their break..

Why can't every day Americans get their break??

There is no good answer for that save number 1 and number 2 above...

1. Corporate cronies NEED the cash...

2. Republicans MUST NOT get a win...

There's your reasons...

Michale

So, now the government is keeper of the morals??

There is no reason NOT to delay the personal mandate save 1> making sure corporate cronies get their $$$ and 2> making sure Republicans don't get a win..

The government being keeper of the morals is NOT a good reason to force the personal mandate...

BTW, what was that you were saying about the American people again

Congrats.. You found an outlier...

Show me another dozen of those type polls and you might have an argument..

But we both know that you can't... :D

Michale

It will allow people to avoid their responsibility.

Do you agree with me that Democrats should delay the personal mandate?

If we're going to do it, let's do it.

Delaying doesn't buy anything except more time for Republicans to try to eliminate it. Of course, that's clearly your goal.

BTW, what was that you were saying about the American people again

http://www.quinnipiac.edu/institutes-and-centers/polling-institute/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=1958

-David

Delaying the mandate won't do that.

It will still allow people to sign up who WANT to sign up..

It will delay FORCING people to sign up.

So....

NOW, what is the reason for Democrats not to delay the personal mandate???

Do you agree with me that Democrats should delay the personal mandate???

Michale

We already talked about this. I'm with you, it was the wrong original decision. They should have just done it.

It doesn't mean we should hold off, however, allowing people to sign up for healthcare coverage.

-David

Giving the American people the same 1 year delay on the mandate that Obama and the Democrats gave their corporate cornies hardly constitutes a valid comparison to burning down a house..

Why won't Obama and the Democrats agree to the SAME delay for the American people that they gave their corporate stooges???

Do you have an answer for THAT??

Because, until you do, you and the Democrats are in the wrong here.

Pure and simple...

Michale

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/10/03/1243743/-Republican-idea-of-compromise-summarized-perfectly-in-one-tweet

-David

I guess it's been an exciting day.... :D

Or a slow day here at work.. :D

Michale...

It's only "silly" because it doesn't fit in with your mindset..

Do I really need to reach back and post all the newsreels of how veterans were welcomed home from Vietnam???

Do I REALLY need to post all the newsreels of Democrats like John Kerry and Jane Fonda to show that the Democratic Party actively despised veterans and the military??

Face up to the history of your Party... Accept it...

There are so many programs at the federal, state, local and private level to insure kids have insurance that only parental incompetence prevents them from getting it...

Which doesn't change the fact that Harry Reid is on record as saying why would Democrats want to help kids with cancer..

it's a fact..

Deal with it...

Michale

No, the spitters were probably Democrats (or independents/not registered). Unless you can come up with proof that the national democratic party gave their blessing to the spitting your point is silly. Timothy McVeigh was a registered republican at some point in his life, does that make all republicans terrorists? He was later most likely an independent with libertarian leanings. Does that make you a terrorist?

It's undeniable that the Democratic Party was the Party of spitting on veterans..

As such, one would think that Democrats would take care not to be perceived as screwing over Veterans..

AGAIN...

That was my entire point and you have offered nothing factual that refutes that point...

Further, Harry Why-Would-We-Want-To-Help-Kids-With-Cancer Reid is in a rather precarious position to begin with..

Why he thinks it's a good idea to screw over Veterans is beyond me..

Michale

Of course, you can PROVE that, right??? You have the FACTS to back that up, right??

So, Mr hysteria has to go back four decades to come up with something? I was talking about the "figuratively" and ignoring the "literally" as it's too silly to address. The spiting was bad and not a great moment for the anti Vietnam war movement. That more than a miniscule amount of democrats actually engaged in it is silly. Can you prove that the few who did so are all registered democrats today? None of them are republicans? Your joined you as independents?

Heh. Me too. I think this morning was about as angry as he gets :)

I think people respond to passion. Especially if you want to win people over.

Good to hear from you michty!

-David

Why won't Obama and Democrats agree to the same 1 year delay for every day Americans that they agreed to for corporate cronies??

Any answer???

ANYONE?? Beuhler???

Michale

Really??

They have a reputation for LITERALLY spitting on Veterans???

Of course, you can PROVE that, right??? You have the FACTS to back that up, right??

:D

Michale

The one that keeps trying to cutting funding to veteran programs? Hint: their name does not start with a D :D

Michale

This is bad, VERY bad for Democrats..

I mean, of the two Partys, which Party has the reputation for spitting (figuratively AND literally) on veterans??

Democrats are digging themselves into a deeper and deeper hole...

Michale

Actually, it doesn't..

The only corporate coffers that are being filled are due to obamacare...

Republicans have nothing to do with obamacare..

Like michty, you are comparing oranges and alligators..

Secondly, the GOP already offered the Democrats a way out.. Agree to the same 1-year delay for everyday Americans that Democrats gave to corporate cronies..

Obama and the Democrats refuse to give the American people that same break...

This shutdown is completely and unequivocally owned by Obama and the Democrats...

These are the facts...

Michale

There are only TWO reasons to be against the 1-year delay for the personal mandate..

1. Boehner and the Repubs need to fill the coffers of their corporate cronies..

2. Boehner and the Repubs simply CANNOT give the Democrats a "win"...

That's it.....

It works both ways...

Obama and the Democrats have PROVEN that they are not "completely against" a 1-year delay on the mandate.

They gave it to their corporate cronies.

So your example doesn't fit the situation we find ourselves in...

There are only TWO reasons to be against the 1-year delay for the personal mandate..

1. Obama and the Dems need to fill the coffers of their corporate cronies..

2. Obama and the Dems simply CANNOT give the Republicans a "win"...

That's it.....

You are trying to compare oranges and alligators...

Michale

But hay... If you want to refute my facts with some of your own..

You can be like the killer in STIFFS and, "Take a stab at it!" :D

Michale

How would you feel if Democrats said "we'll agree to your spending bill but we've attached a completely unrelated bill to it that means everyone will have the public option for healthcare - because we know how much you hate the public option but we kinda like it".

Or "spending bill + a ban on all automatic weapons".

I could keep going but you get the idea. Take the spending bill and add something that all Republicans are completely universally against and unwilling to compromise on at all.

I'd bet you'd be ranting away at how unreasonable they were being and how they'd totally lost the plot and were completely insane if they ever thought Republicans would agree with their demands. I'm going to hazard a guess that somehow the idea that Republicans should 'compromise' would never come up under these circumstances...

I'd liked to have seen Obama get a little more angry this morning. I mean I'd be pretty pissed if one minority section of the minority party (who didn't even get 50% of the vote) was basically trying to deliberately screw up the entire US economy just because they're spoilt little babies, angry that they lost the election last year and can't stand that America is actually progressing (for once)...

Same old "It's not MY fault" Passing The Buck Obama...

He can end the shutdown right now by agreeing to the same 1 yr delay he gave his corporate cronies.

I notice how you constantly ignore that fact...

Why is that?? :D

Michale

Naw, it just means I have such a target rich environment that ya'all can't keep up.. :D

Michale

National number to sign up for obamacare

1-800-F UCKYO

Jeezus, Obama's people couldn't be more inept and incompetent if they tried!!

His PR people should be canned...

Michale

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/04/us/politics/congress-budget-battle.html?_r=0

:)

when daffy demands more, offer less. constitutional amendmentment outlawing lobbying, and that's my final offer!

Heheh. Love it. One of the best signs the GOP is feeling the heat I've seen: Darrell Issa announces a plan to replace Obamacare with Obamacare.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/top-republican-calls-replacing-obamacare-193739366.html

You can't make this stuff up!

-David

p.s. Stay strong, President Obama!

Base Exchanges (grocery stores) are closed on military installations..

But the golf course at Andrews is open...

Can't mess with The Exalted One's golf schedule, eh?? :^/

Michale

Can't really name any at the moment, but I am sure they do....

"Patience is not one of my virtues. Actually, I don't have any virtues. But if I DID have any virtues, I am sure that patience would not be one of them."
-Crowley, SUPERNATURAL

:D

Michale

Yea, but Democrats DO have some good things about them...

Can't really name any at the moment, but I am sure they do....

Michale

Actually, considering the MAKE IT HURT strategy being implemented by the Obama Administration, it's RE-ENFORCING the idea that government is evil..

I mean, who knew that the WWII memorial would need more security than Benghazi to protect it from... {gasp}... WWII veterans!!!

By the bi, welcome back, michty! :D

Michale

This is another aspect that the lunatics didn't consider: when you shut down parts of Government and people hate it, this kills your 'Government is evil' central mention.

The whole thing is probably one of the dumbest political moves I've ever seen. But hey this is the lunatic, moronic, crazy part of the Republicans. So we shouldn't be too shocked.

Been a while! I've been busy with various projects...

Anyway excellent article CW. Few other points for the 'This is not about the budget' section:
1. The shutdown adds to the US deficit directly by adding unnecessary costs everywhere
2. The shutdown adds to the deficit indirectly through economic costs (estimated at $300m a day)
3. The shutdown could see more people claiming Government benefits - again adding to the deficit - but pretty ironic considering the moronic part of the Republican party creating this situation hates these people the most.

It is also certainly worth pointing out that Republicans have chosen to deliberately harm the US economy (for no reason) because they know it is only going to get better and a good economy is bad for their 'Obama is a socialist' message.

Also it seems that Republicans must think Obamacare is going to be a success. Why else would they go to such extreme measures to try and stop it's implementation? That last time they shut the Government down was over Medicare and look what happened with this.

Having said that, I often forget that this shutdown is driven by a minority of moronic, idiotic, lunatic extremists. So applying logic, common sense and rationality to assess their actions is probably quite pointless...

by the way, i also love the bugs bunny tactic that you're suggesting. when daffy demands more, offer less. constitutional amendmentment outlawing lobbying, and that's my final offer!

So, you would agree that if Democrats cave in and give Americans the 1 year delay that their corporate cronies got, Republicans should respond with, "That deal was sooo yesterday. NOW we want the mandate eliminated!"

Good for the goose, good for the gander...

Wouldn't you agree?? :D

Michale

"barrycade" NOUN An immature and spiteful barrier designed to inflict maximum discomfort and inconvenience on innocent people.

"barrycade" VERB A childish attempt to block access. See also: "Temper Tantrum"...

Michale

http://dailycaller.com/2013/10/02/monuments-and-memorials-remained-open-during-previous-shutdown/

Obama and the Democrats are WAY overplaying their hand..

They are going to suffer big time over this..

Michale

Single Payer and the Public Option were set aside to reach a consensus which would pass Congress.

There was no consensus..

Backroom deals were made so that obamacare could pass.. And it passed completely without ANY Republican support.

The only "compromises" that were made, were made solely and completely to garner DEMOCRAT support.

So, if you have an issue with the compromises that were made, take it up with your own Party..

I also remind you that the American people have NEVER supported obamacare.

The majority of Americans have ALWAYS... repeat... *ALWAYS* been against obamacare..

That's a fact that ya'all always seem to forget..

So, let's dispense with this idea that obamacare had a "consensus".. It never did. obamacare's "consensus" is as mythical as the scientists' "consensus" over Human Caused Global Warming (Yet The Planet Is Cooling) theory...

Michale

All Democrats have to agree to is to not FORCE Americans to sign up...

This is a point worth repeating..

Beyond making sure millions go to corporate cronies, there is only ONE reason why ya'all and Democrats won't agree to the 1 year delay.

Because it would give the Republicans a "win"..

And, just like ya'all accuse Republicans of acting vis a vis giving a "win" to Obama, Democrats would rather see this country and the American people suffer rather than give a "win" to the Republicans.

Which simply proves (AGAIN) what I have said all along.

There really isn't any difference between Republicans and Democrats...

Michale

Oh yes, Democrats are feeling the heat..

After all they have done to this country, it's a pleasure to watch them implode because of their own mismanagement, greed and incompetence...

Michale

It IS Thursday, right??? :D

Michale

All they have to do is agree to the same delay for everyday Americans that they gave their corporate cronies...

It's NOT taking away insurance from ANYONE. Those who WANT to sign up for obamacare can still do so.

All Democrats have to agree to is to not FORCE Americans to sign up...

I honestly don't understand WHY ya'all wouldn't agree with that. Unless, of course, you know that obamacare isn't about getting health insurance to those who want it, but rather just feeding the coffers of corporate sleazebags...

Ya'all claim compromise is the watchword around DC..

So, let's see the Democrats compromise...

This shutdown is all 1000% completely and unequivocally owned by Democrats and Obama..

Michale

Oh, come on!!

Democrats are getting decimated in the PR war!!

From Reid's remark about why would Democrats want to help kids with cancer to Obama declaring war on WWII veterans (these are FACTS, by the bi) the Democrats are absolutely trounced by the GOP PR machine...

You KNOW the Dems are feeling the pressure when they start using terrorist slurs against the GOP....

Ya'all must realize this too because why else would ya'all do a Friday Talking Points on Thursday?? :D

Michale