Sorry has taken so long to respond. It finally hit me why I was struggling with this.

Basically, we were already done when we were looking at percentages.

Percentages are normalized to 100 so they can be compared. And we were looking at percentages.

Black people making up 13% of the population for example is normalized to 100. So is 40% of violent crime committed by black people. So you can compare these numbers directly if the meaning of 'black people' is the same. As previously mentioned, it's a bit sticky here because I couldn't find how the FBI determines if someone is 'black'. Do they count Hispanics as black or white basically?

We were both thinking of it correctly though in terms of comparing percentages. If we wanted to we could multiple these percentages by the same X number of people - 1 million say. So you could say 136,000 people out of every million are black. And then compare these numbers. But this just adds an extra step.

Anyway, hope I haven't lost you. Just wanted to say that you don't have to do anything additional to get a per capita number. You can think of a percentage as per capita for 100 people.

Good discussion as always!

-David

Obama's vaunted Foreign Policy success...

Going down in flames...

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2013/08/14/cnn_is_ted_cruz_eligible_to_run_for_president.html

Priceless!!! :D

Impressive..... :D

"Vulcans never bluff," Spock, The Doomsday Machine

If you ask people about race, 72.4% identify as white.

If you ask them about ethnicity, only 63.7% identify as white.

Fascinating ...

-David

You're spot on here:

If 12.6% of people in the US are black, in a perfectly balanced world, it SHOULD be that 12.6% of the violent crimes committed are committed by blacks.

And this is probably the best way to compare as well.

Rather than trying to divide out per capita, you can just compare the distributions to see where the anomalies are, just like you did.

In other words, you can compare 40% to 12.6% and say this seems to be a statistical anomaly. What might be causing this?

The first one is likely that Hispanics are not broken out. If you break out the 40% into Black and Hispanic the same way population is, then you likely have blacks accounting for 15% of violent crime.

The other way to do this is to look at the white population percentage and lump everyone else into the 'Black' category.

If you do this, whites are 72%, 'blacks (+hispanics)' 28%.

You can then compare 72% to 60% violent crime and 28% to 40% violent crime.

There's still anomalies (likely due to other factors), but these stats are much more believable.

I'll run the per capita numbers later ... they should look very similar to the differences in percentages.

-David

I am at a loss to understand the methodology that you used to arrive to the conclusion.

If 12.6% of people in the US are black, in a perfectly balanced world, it SHOULD be that 12.6% of the violent crimes committed are committed by blacks..

Put another way, blacks are 12% of the population, but they commit 40% of the violent crimes..

If we extrapolate that out (here's where I go cross-eyed) if blacks and whites were evenly distributed (50%-50%) and the violent crimes were equally extrapolated then ........ Oh I dunno...

Blacks are 1/10th of the population, but commit 4/10ths of the violent crime.. So if we increase the percentage of blacks to 5/10ths (50%) then we would have to increase the percentage of violent crimes by 4/10ths to 8/10ths (80%)...

To make the numbers come out right, the percentage of whites in the US is 7/10ths. So we would have to reduce the percentage of whites by 2/10ths to equal the 5/10ths (50%) extrapolated. We would then have to reduce the percentage of violent crimes by the same 2/10s... In the example whites are responsible for 57% of the violent crime. Let's round that up to 60% for computational ease..

6/10ths minus 2/10ths equals 4/10ths or 40%...

So, when one accounts for per capita data, blacks commit 80% of the violent crimes and whites commit 40% of the violent crimes...

Obviously my math is off somewhere as that equals 120%..... :^/

I have my moments. :D

But even at 60%/40%, why do so many people think all violent crime is black? Why is black violent crime played up in the media as the only violent crime?

I would say it's not.. During the Sanford affair, the MSM ignored all the black on white crimes and violence in favor of the white on black crimes and violence. I don't even have to bother pointing out that it was the MSM that created a racist issue where no racism existed..

And why does the FBI categorize all people of color as black so it looks like 40% of violent crime is committed by black people?

Never actually worked for the FBI, so I wouldn't know..

My GUESS is that it just reduces the number of variables which, in turn, makes it easier to spin the numbers...

I don't know. I haven't seen enough evidence to make an argument either way.

The fact that 93% of violent crime against blacks are committed by other blacks would seem to indicate that blacks victimize blacks more than whites victimize blacks.

Further, if one looks at some planks of the Democratic Party platform (Immigration and Drug Legalization for example) if those agendas come to fruition, it will be the black community who suffers greatly...

That is also supportive evidence that it's not racism from whites that is the cause of misery and poverty within the black community...

But I am heartened to see that you don't reflexively blame racism for the condition of the black community..

That makes you a better person than most, Gunga Din... :D

As an aside, I am absolutely clueless as to the origination of the "Gunga Din" reference... I hope it's not racial.. :D

Well done! And I mean that sincerely. Absolutely, per capita should be taken into effect. I give you props for bringing up.

This is part of what I mentioned as well about 'Black' most likely meaning 'all people of color'.

Using your per capita stats, even without factoring in Hispanics, it still shows the majority of violent crime is committed by white people. 57.32% to 40.7%.

My guess based on demographics is that if you factor in Hispanics the numbers would look more like 55% white, 26% Hispanic, 16% black.

But even at 60%/40%, why do so many people think all violent crime is black? Why is black violent crime played up in the media as the only violent crime?

And why does the FBI categorize all people of color as black so it looks like 40% of violent crime is committed by black people?

-David

Is racism responsible for the plight and poverty of the black community nation wide?

I don't know. I haven't seen enough evidence to make an argument either way.

The answer is clearly "no" and the stats that are relevant to THAT point are conclusive.

The simple fact is, institutionalized racism against black people is dead in this country.

It died when we elected a (to use the Leftist MSM's new found racial designation protocols) black white man as POTUS.

On the other hand, racism against white people in this country is alive and well..

It's called Affirmative Action....

Yet Another White House Obamacare Delay: Out-Of-Pocket Caps Waived Until 2015
http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/08/13/yet-another-white-house-obamacare-delay-out-of-pocket-caps-waived-until-2015/

If Obamacare is so awesome and so necessary, why all the delays???

Hokay... :D

The original discussion (started by Kevin in comment #6) was regarding the Zimmerman shooting and the alleged racism against black people as a whole as epitomized by said shooting.

THAT is the discussion here.

However, I'll be happy to discuss YOUR point...

Taking the PERCENTAGES of white/black violent crimes and breaking them down by crime, we see the following:

Murder and nonnegligent manslaughter
48% white 49.7% black

Forcible rape
65% white 32.9% black

Robbery
43% white 55.6% black

Aggravated assault* (what Martin was guilty of w/ a Hate Crime Special Circumstances rider)
63.9% white 33.6% black

Burglary
66.7% white 31.7%

Remember, these numbers are from YOUR stats...

So yes, your stats show that overall, white people commit more violent crimes than black people.. If we average out those percentages listed above, we come up with 57.32% of violent crimes committed by white people and 40.7% violent crimes committed by black people..

So, the stats would seem to bear out your position..

BUT....

But we're not done yet.

To give an ACCURATE statistic, we must process in the Per Capita factor..

Unfortunately, my math skills peaked at figuring out the average percentages above.. :D I'll have to rely on your computational skills..

You will need to factor into the above averages the fact that black people make up approx 12.6% of the US population and white people make up approx 72.4% of the US population.

I think that, once you factor in the per capita, you will see that I am right..

However, regardless of all that, it's not the point of the discussion that Kevin started..

The point of THAT discussion is this.

Is racism responsible for the plight and poverty of the black community nation wide..

The answer is clearly "no" and the stats that are relevant to THAT point are conclusive.

"Simple logic"
Admiral James T Kirk, STAR TREK IV, The Voyage Home

I'm talking about violent crime. And how the media portrays it as being committed almost solely by black people.

Even given that, you'll have to back up your claim with some facts.

According to the FBI statistics I sent previously, violent crime is defined as murder and non-negligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault.

Murder and manslaughter ... 4,000 4,149
Forcible rape ... 9,504 4,811
Robbery ... 35,443 45,827
Aggravated assault ... 194,981 102,597

Totals 243,928 157,384

If you add in drug-related crimes as you suggest

Drug abuse violations 783,564 371,248

New Totals 1,027,492 528,632

More violent crimes & drug related crimes are committed by white people.

Of course popular perception is that violent crimes are committed by black people because this is what is portrayed in the media: criminals, especially violent criminals, are black.

Make of it what you want.

-David

Not against black people...

We ARE talking about the black community and alleged 'racism', are we not???

Even more violent crime is committed by white people.

Hmmmmmm Two "ANYTHING"s and no "ANYONE"s...

What's wrong with that picture?? :D

Hay, don't blame me! :D I offered to change the subject to Obamacare... :D

But you and I both know that it's not THOSE crimes that are the problem within the black community.

It's the murders and the rapes and the drugs and the assaults and the gang-violence..

THOSE are the crimes we are discussing here.

THOSE are the crimes that cause all the misery within the black community.

And THOSE are the crimes that are committed BY black people AGAINST black people 93% of the time.

You want to help the black community??

Let's talk about THAT...

You want to help the Democratic Party??

Continue to obfuscate the issue and blame ANYTHING and ANYTHING but the black community...

It's your call.....

"You must choose. But choose wisely."
-Knight, INDIANA JONES AND THE LAST CRUSADE

We're not talking just "crime"..

We're talking VIOLENT crime.. Drug related crime... Assaults, murders things like that..

You're talking about 93% of 30%. That would be 28% of the crime.

No, I am talking 93% of VIOLENT crimes...

But it's hard to ignore the fact that far more crimes are committed by white people, yet our media and justice system seem obsessed with black crime.

More violent and drug related crime is committed by black people than by white people..

This is the problem within the black community...

But no one wants to talk about that because it would mean that the black community would have to take SOME responsibility for their actions...

But those "so-called" leaders would rather just inject racism into the issue and blame it all on ANYONE but black people.

These are the facts.. Regardless of whether you acknowledge them or not..

Quick statistical correction. The FBI statistics are not broken out by "crime against". So that 30% would need to be split into how much of it is against black people. If we assume a conservative 25% estimate (it's likely lower), we'd be talking about 7.5% of crime which if you multiple by 93%, you get 7% of all crimes total are black on black crime .

What about the other 93% of crimes? Why isn't the media more concerned with the 93%?

Overall, who commits the most crimes? White people or black people?

According to FBI statistics, 70% of total arrests are white people.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/table-43

If crime is the issue, how come we only hear about the 30%? Why don't we hear more about the 70%?

Do you agree with the FBI that white people commit more crimes?

93% of crime against black people is committed BY black people.

You're talking about 93% of 30%. That would be 28% of the crime.

What about the other 72% of crimes committed by white people?

The black community so-called "leaders" want you (the sheep) to focus on white on black crime.

No evidence supports this claim.

It's funny how this seems to be your main concern though. Not crime of any sort. But what so-called 'black leaders' are saying.

I don't believe it's right for people to get accused of racism unfairly, which is why it's a charge that I almost never lay on an individual.

But it's hard to ignore the fact that far more crimes are committed by white people, yet our media and justice system seem obsessed with black crime.

Once again, though Michale, I vote that we wind this down. It's not the subject of CW's column so I'm not going to say anything more on the subject here.

-David

Footnote about the FBI statistics: Someone pointed out to me something really interesting about the FBI statistics: the only categories for race are white and black.

There's no 'Hispanic' category at all.

The reason this is interesting is that it's quite likely many Hispanics (or other dark-skinned races) get categorized as black. So the 'black' arrest rate is quite likely even lower than 30%.

93% of crime against black people is committed BY black people.

And YOU think that, statistically, they are not the problem???

Are you frakin shittin' me!!?????

You miss the point.. Don't know if it's intentional or not.

The black community so-called "leaders" want you (the sheep) to focus on white on black crime.. This allows these black "leaders" to inject race into issues that have NOTHING to do with race..

These "leaders" can't do that when the discussion is black on black crime.

But here's the funny thing.

White on black crime is about 6%....

Black on black crime is 93%!!!

Now, you tell me..

LOGICALLY and RATIONALLY speaking, where should the focus be??

Remember, I am referring to logical and rational. Not hysterical and ideological...

http://gawker.com/watch-cord-jefferson-discuss-the-white-culture-of-viole-975400723

It's also extremely funny ...

-David

If statistically, white crime is much higher than black crime, where's the outrage over "white on white" crime?

http://gawker.com/video-of-violent-rioting-surfers-shows-white-culture-o-954939719

Why are so many in the media concerned with black people when statistically, they're not the problem?

-David

BTW, this piece is satirical. It's intended to point out the silliness of the entire 'black on black' narrative.

Ever read the Jake Grafton novel, UNDER SIEGE??

That's the best solution, in my learned and experienced opinion...

By all means, let's focus on the statistics...

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303404704577307613183789698.html

Until people actually look at the ROOT of the problem w/o accusing anyone who does of being a racist, nothing will ever get solved...

You can't solve the race problem with so many racist con-artists like Sharpton and Jackson being the "leaders" of the black community..

Tawana Brawley

Edmund Perry

Trayvon Martin

You seeing the pattern.. Racist con-artists like Sharpton and Jackson are injecting race into areas that had absolutely NOTHING to do with race..

This is why we STILL have a racial problem here in this country.. Because of assholes like Sharpton and Jackson and the morons that follow them and give them credence..

And, the FACTS show that it has gotten WORSE, not better, under Obama...

So, by all means, let's look at the stats..

But let's look at ALL the stats.. Not just the ones that support a political agenda...

And let's do so without accusing those who DO look at ALL the stats of being racists...

Only then can we have a REAL and honest discussion...

I would only echo the words of the man speaking in the video: "Don't fall for the bait!"

Getting lost in battles about whether individual people are racist or not is typically a losing battle because it often means having to prove what someone is thinking.

None of this obviates the fact that those guys in the video are idiots. I'd suggest focusing on the statistics of our justice system and ignoring the village idiots. If we know the 'village idiots' are a distraction tactic, why get distracted by them?

My two cents anyhoo ...

-David

p.s. BTW, some good news in the media. Looks like the Justice Department is recommending getting rid of the mandatory minimum sentencing which has been used to overcrowd jails w/ first time offenders:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/holder-seeks-to-avert-mandatory-minimum-sentences-for-some-low-level-drug-offenders/2013/08/11/343850c2-012c-11e3-96a8-d3b921c0924a_story.html

Sequester???

There ain't no stinkin' sequester...

My gods, the complete and utter arrogance of Emperor Barack The First...

Doesn't this clown know that Americans are having trouble SURVIVING!!!???

And this guy is spending hundreds of thousands of dollars for a SPECIAL plane ride for his frakin' DOG!!!????

It's hilarious to me how political ideologues can, on one hand deal in absolutes when one Political Party is in power, but then deal in nothing but nuance when the OTHER Political Party is in power..

For example...

Under the Bush Administration (Republican), torture, rendition and domestic surveillance was utterly unequivocally and without question, bad.. It was wrong, it was evil and it was morally abhorrent...

Under the Obama Administration (Democrat), those SAME qualities or even ENHANCED aspects of those qualities are glossed over, ignored. AVOIDING those topics in favor of the mineteau "bodes well" for the Administration....

I am fascinated what people can accept and ignore, all in the name of Party loyalty...

Another good read. However, while going in, there was nothing wrong with your presumption about what the media would pick up from the speech, it does look like you were mistaken.

There are at least as many articles out there on the non-NSA portions of the speech, with a lot of them quoting from the same text you give above.

Personally, I think that bodes well overall....

David,

Care to comment on the theory that Obamacare was designed to fail so as to pave the way for a Single Payer system??

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2013/aug/10/reid-says-obamacare-just-step-toward-eventual-sing/

There was no "murder". You and all the other racists had your trial. A trial even the JURORS say should never happened...

Ya'all had your trial and the evidence (AND THE FACTS) overwhelmingly proved Zimmerman's innocence beyond ANY doubt, let alone a reasonable doubt..

The racists lost. Get over it already...

As for quoting BanterLine??

Why on EARTH would something from a tin-plated hitler-wannabee be appropriate in a forum that has a REAL exchange of ideas and discussions (Weigantia) instead of being nothing but an echo chamber filled with a bunch of Left wing ditto heads(Banter Line)??

I'm just sayin'....

Michale

http://thedailybanter.com/2013/07/watch-right-wing-trolls-with-ner-t-shirts-at-a-travyon-martin-rally/

I suggest watching the video,it sure looks like Michale from his shop-cam days. Plus it fits with his gleeful posts about Zimmerman getting away with Trayvon's murder. Weigantian's, know what you're dealing with.

Couldn't happen to a more deserving POTUS.....

If YOU do it, is it really "off subject"?? :D

Regarding the Citizen Koch rant and the subsequent support.

I have to ask..

Would ya'all be just as disgusted if PBS bowed to DEMOCRAT economic terrorism and pulled support for CITIZEN CLINTON??

Of course ya'all wouldn't. Ya'all (The Grand Poo-Bah excluded, of course) would support PBS to the HILT on THAT move...

That's why it's hard to justify any outcry over THIS move.. Because, if PBS's move supported the Left or Democrats, ya'all would be 1000% behind it..

Same ol same ol.. Nothing to see here, move along..

As far as your unique award... I don't have to hash out my feelings on Snowden as I am sure ya'all could quote them verbatim...

Having said that, I must give credit where credit is due..

Snowden showed EVERYONE, beyond a SHADOW OF A DOUBT, that when it comes to CT policies, Obama is much worse (at least, how YA'LL define "worse") then Bush...

And yet, ya'all STILL support Obama.. :D

Like I said before, I get it. Because Obama gives ya'all SOME of what ya'all want, ya'all are willing to overlook the "morally abhorrent" and the stuff of war criminals....

Like I said, I get it..

Kevin,

I'm NOT looking forward to the predicted outpouring of "frontier jibberish" from out resident loon

I enjoy the sparring and such. But this blatantly immature name-calling is something I would have thought would have been beneath you..

But, as I am wont to do when it occurs, I guess I have to admit I was wrong.. :D

Was searching for a national contact though as I'm not sure if boycotting local stations is the best approach. These stations are usually in charge of their own programming and get to pick off a menu of different options provided by PBS. At least this is my understanding.

Would hate to punish local stations for a decision which seems like it was made by either WNET or ITVS.

It's a bit of a confusing mess though as it seemed unclear who would be best to contact.

ITVS can be contacted here:

651 Brannan Street
Suite 410
San Francisco, CA 94107
Phone: (415) 356-8383
Fax: (415) 356-8391
Email: itvs@itvs.org

Shoot, they're right in your neighborhood, CW.

WNET here:

http://www.wnet.org/about/contact/

Maybe calling the local stations would help as well so I'm going to give that a shot too.

Thoughts?

-David