Didna think so... :D

I hate being right all the time.. :D

Paul Krugman even alludes to this in yesterday's "Phony Fear Factor" editorial (no link provided to the NYT editorial page).

Ahhh ... yes. It is all becoming clear.

You're right, I believe. And I know this from personal experience. It's one of the reasons I'd have a hard time leaving my job right now.

-David

I think the motivation is that the less empowered employees are, the more control corps have over them. If an employee can't maintain health insurance when leaving a job to look for a better one, then in many cases the employee can't leave their job. This reduces incentives to increase wages, etc.

This is not dissimilar to the Southern approach to employment.

This is one of the best articles I've seen on the politics involved in the Affordable Care Act.

It's also interesting because I think the lobbying interests may be split on this which could explain some of the schizophrenia.

On one side you have the 4 or 5 largest health insurance companies, your Aetnas, WellPoints, Humanas and United Healthcares. These groups all fought with the people who wanted to fix healthcare because they want access to healthy people who weren't buying insurance.

Hospitals are on this side as well. Because, I believe, they're tired of emergency room care.

On the other side are some employers who I'm not sure are fond of the legislation and Republican politicians who want to use it as an issue against Obama.

It's not exactly clear what the motivation for these corporations is but I believe they feel they may have pay more (though by no means is this clear).

What makes it interesting, as you mentioned, is that politicians are going to be getting it from both sides.

There may be more risk in coming out in favor of killing it as being for it. Case #1: Ohio's John Kasich who supports expanding Medicaid in Ohio.

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/06/03/2093891/gop-governor-medicaid-ronald-reagan/

-David

The *facts* show that waging this battle would HELP, not harm, millions of Americans..

Especially the middle class who are seeing their hours and their pay cut drastically because of Obamacare..

Funny how no one wants to comment on that..

Prolly because it totally decimates the "Obamacare is good, Obamacare is great" theory...

We can also NOT talk about how Obamacare is raising the costs of insurance up to 200% in some places (Ohio, I think... {sly glance to David} :D )

The problem here is ya'all are basing your "what will occur" on the idea that Obamacare will be all goodness and light..

What are your scenarios if Obamacare is everything the GOP says it is and worse??

Want to consider that??

No??

Didna think so... :D

Ding Ding Ding!!!

We have a winner!!!

In that, Democrats are just like the Palestinians..

They never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity...

Apparently, you haven't read the current meme from Howard Dean (yes, he's a Democrat) and a host of other Democrats.

"He DOES exist!!"
"They DO exist!!"
-M&Ms Santa Claus Commercial

:D

But I still think the Kodos The Executioner example is a MUCH better example...

" The revolution is successful, but survival depends on drastic measures. Your continued existence represents a threat to the well-being of society. (stops looking at the paper) Your lives means slow death to the more valued members of the colony. Therefore I have no alternative but to sentence you to death. Your execution is so ordered. Signed, Kodos, governor of Tarsus Four. "

Still sends chills up and down my spine...

Kodos The Executioner anyone?? :D

Actually, the Sarah Palin "death panel" is a part of a book by Frank Herbert (of "Dune" fame). It was the third book in the "Destination: Void" (or "Ship") series, titled "The Lazarus Effect."

A population with clones and many many genetic mutations set up a "board" which decided which children could live and which would be put to death because they had mutated too far from the human norm. Exactly what Palin was talking about.

But, of course, outside of science fiction, "death panels" do not, in fact, exist. Sorry, Sarah...

-CW

But realistically, even if there are implementation problems with Obamacare's state exchanges (and there will be, nothing this big launches perfectly smoothly), from October onwards Republicans are never going to be able to propose simple elimination of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (the official name of "Obamacare"). People will be seeing too many benefits of the law for the Republican "repeal!" position to ever work again.

Never underestimate the power of exposure. You can bet that every little hiccup will be paraded with absolute intensity. So much so that even though people won't experience the "wreck" for themselves, they'll continue to believe the ACA is BAD!!!

Until recently, the GOP and conservative media outlets have been really good at speaking from the same script, hence your Friday Talking Points. They will all be out there, creating the narrative. Even as people experience differently, it is quite possible that the narrative they create will still rule the day.

I have to wonder about another strategy. What if Dems offer GOP a choice?

Option A: Legislation that fixes many of the issues with the ACA (e.g. a clergy fix; a change from counting full-time workers to counting labor hours; etc).

Of course, the GOP would never agree to Option A, but you have to make the offer.

Option B: Stick it to the TPs. Offer a full repeal of the ACA; the whole shebang. If TP'ers think this is the most important battle of their time, and are willing to harm hundreds of millions of Americans to wage this battle, then ask the question, are they willing to help hundreds of millions of Americans in order to get rid of the ACA. The offer, of course, hinges on their acceptance of basically every other progressive policy. Think WPA, a major minimum wage increase (with future increases tied to a reasonably appropriate index), card-check (perhaps), ending fossil fuel subsidies (maybe even a carbon tax) and other policies. Basically, everything a progressive would want except immigration reform (that should be allowed to continue to play out). Just ensure that everything on the list would increase the number of working Americans and increase the median salary of workers.

I know, snarky, but there is good political strategy here.

If you get Option B, then 2014 looks really good and 2016 is really, really good for Dems. If you get Option A, then the ACA rolls out much more smoothly.

-David

JL

To be fair, the GOP definitely piled on the "train wreck" metaphor..

But it's undeniable that the "train wreck" meme was started by your fav and mine, Max Bacaus... :D

You assume much, grasshopper... :D

The OTHER possibility is that Obamacare WILL actually be the "train wreck" that DEMOCRATS have said it would be and the American people, as a whole, will DEMAND repeal of said train wreck..

Considering the fiascos that we have seen to date, my money is on my scenario being the reality..

The best example of this was Sarah Palin turning an idea to fund patients' discussions with their doctors about end-of-life issues into "death panels" who would convene with the stupendous power to decide which Americans should live and which should be killed off because they weren't productive members of society.

Kodos The Executioner anyone?? :D

Millions of Americans are going to be downright shocked when Obamacare is fully implemented and nothing changes for them.

Again, you are assuming facts not in evidence.

Obama himself, PLUS his HHS Sec, have conceded that MANY people will have to switch plans and switch doctors.

So, the OTHER scenario, that millions of Americans are going to be downright shocked when Obamacare is fully implemented and EVERYTHING changes for them, is going to be the more likely scenario...

. In fact, Republicans' insistence on the "train wreck" that is coming

Ahem.. It was a DEMOCRAT's insistence that it's going to be a train wreck. Not Republicans..

The third and possibly most-attractive option is, to use a phrase from James Carville: "When your opponents are drowning, throw them an anchor!" Attack the Republican Party as a whole, leaning on the fact that they cannot get anything done, even among themselves.

This is possibly the WORST option the Democrats could choose.

Of the two Partys, which one has the BEST track record of coming together and uniting to face a common foe?

You want to see the GOP get their act together and work as a whole??

Have the Democrats attack them en masse....