It's a tax... And, according to the Constitution, legislation that has anything to do with taxes must originate in the House.

But I doubt anyone on the Left cares about the Constitution...

Except when it suits the agenda, I mean... :D

It CAN'T be fixed!!

That's the whole point.

It's GARBAGE....

Garbage In. Garbage Out...

The simple fact that it requires half a billion dollars to "explain" it is a huge clue how bad it is..

I realize that, since it's Democrat legislation, you want to find a rose or a diamond SOMEWHERE in the mess...

But it's simply not possible...

Even if it WERE possible, I don't have the knowledge or expertise to know what will and will not work..

None of us do...

But it's simply undeniable to think that this legislation is going to work as promised..

It's not...

The facts SHOW us it's not..

No solutions. No "let's fix this".

*sigh*

-David

Over half a BILLION DOLLARS to "raise awareness"???

Do we really want or NEED a law that requires half a BILLION dollars to explain???

I thought all we had to do was PASS the law to learn what's in it?? No one said ANYTHING about having to spend a half a BILLION DOLLARS to understand it...

Let's face it.. That half a billion dollars will simply create a propaganda machine that Goebbels would envy...

A "Spin Machine".... A Half A Billion Dollar Spin Machine....

Nothing more...

That's just spin...

If you have to spend over HALF A BILLION dollars to "explain" a law so it won't be a "train wreck" then I submit that the law is ALREADY a "train wreck"..

I think Obamacare will likely work just fine in states that actually work to implement it.

Despite ALL the evidence to the contrary..

Why won't anyone here address the FACT that employers are already cutting back on people's hours/pay because of Obamacare??

How is that, in ANY way, shape or form, a good thing??

Why indeed? Another quote taken out of context.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/2013/05/24/the_secret_history_of_max_baucus_s_train_wreck_quote.html

What would cause the "train wreck"? Insufficient awareness of how the law worked. Not the law itself.

Insufficient awareness because budget was cut by Republicans.

I think Obamacare will likely work just fine in states that actually work to implement it.

Any bets on that one? What if it only fails in places where Republicans actively work to f*ck it up?

What would that say about conservatives? (I mean, other than that they've just about gone completely insane)

-David

Why did Max Baucus call Obamacare a "train wreck"??

The guy is a Democrat who had a hand in writing the damn thing..

He has absolutely NO REASON to lie about it, no partisan agenda to say anything but the truth...

So, if the guy who wrote the damn thing calls it a train wreck and, if one ignores ALL political agendas......

Wouldn't it seem prudent to consider the possibility that Obamacare IS a train wreck???

Isn't it even slightly possible??

Actually, it's called "Independent Confirmation"...

It shows that that accuracy of the reporting is likely 100% since it is cited from several different sources, as opposed to sources simply reporting the same report...

THAT makes it "quality" not quantity..

If you think the present system isn't broken; just say so.

I never said that. Matter of fact, I am on record as saying (MANY times) that the current system needs fixing.

Just as I am on record as saying (MANY times) that Obamacare doesn't fix anything. It simply makes a bad problem worse..

To date, not ONE single person here has been able to refute that claim...

Care to comment why the middle class is getting screwed because of Obamacare???

No???

Didna think so.. :D

If you've got a better system; put it out here. We can discuss it.

For the third (fourth?? fifth??) time. I do not have the expertise to formulate a plan that works..

I doubt anyone here does..

But I am smart enough to realize what DOESN'T work.

And Obamacare simply does not work as advertised..

The conflict here is that ya'all support it, simply because it IS *Obama*care...

Before it became Obamacare, ya'all hated it as much as I did.

Once it became Obamacare that hate automagically disappeared...

We know you oppose ObamaCare. Citing the same story from three differents sources adds quantity, not quality. But you've got us. We know you don't like it.

If you think the present system isn't broken; just say so.

If you've got a better system; put it out here. We can discuss it.

As it is though; you just oppose anything labeled ObamaCare.

I've got it!!!

Would you support RomneyCare?

As I said above, I don't have the expertise to know what DOES work..

But I do have a BUTTLOAD of common sense and said buttload tells me that devising a system whereas the economic incentive to cut worker's hours/pay is risen to overwhelming proportions...

Well, that doesn't seem to me to be a viable system..

NOT if one is a "warrior for the middle class" as ya'all claim to be...

In short, I don't know what WILL work..

But it is painfully obvious to anyone without a partisan agenda what DOESN'T work....

And ObamaCare simply doesn't work..

And, apparently, Obama agrees with me. Which is why he postponed the mandate...

It's easy to oppose "ObamaCare" & Michale does. But when asked to provide specific solutions he, & Republicans in general, get vague & quiet.

Bull donkeys I get silent! Have you EVER known me to "get silent"???

ON ANYTHING!????

RePost of #7

74% of small businesses will fire workers, cut hours under Obamacare
washingtonexaminer.com/74-of-small-businesses-will-fire-workers-cut-hours-under-obamacare/article/2533131

Before the advent of Emperor Barack The First....

=============================

Silent, my left butt cheek! :D

How would you improve Obamacare, Michale?

Hmmmmmm

How to improve on this spike stuck thru the middle of my head...

Hmmmmmm

Tell ya what...

Let's remove the damn thing first.

THEN we can talk all ya want about "improving" on a spike thru the head...

Deal?? :D

By George, I think you've got it.

It's easy to oppose "ObamaCare" & Michale does. But when asked to provide specific solutions he, & Republicans in general, get vague & quiet.

Now, I object to any system that forces private hospitals to care for all who present, regardless of ability to pay. There are several ways around it & I don't much care how you get around it, but you can't stick the hospitals with the cost of the care of the uninsured.

Me too. If something is broke, let's fix it.

How would you improve Obamacare, Michale?

How could we make it better without going back to the 30 million uninsured state of before?

-David

"I am fighting for a little common sense..."

Good, so are we. What do you propose?

"The problem is with the thinking that healthcare is an inalienable right."

So health care should be based on the ability to pay for said care? Health Care for the wealthy?

Just tryin to understand?

As opposed to under ObamaCare where insurance rates are skyrocketing, people are being forced out of their plans and away from their doctors and middle class workers are seeing a huge hours/pay cut??

You are correct when you say that the system needs fixing.

*MY* only argument is that Obamacare is making things worse...

And I have the facts to back it up..

I know you're fighting for business, Michale. And your concern is that somehow if we don't do everything that businesses tell us to do (more tax cuts, more deregulation, more corporate welfare) this is going to bring down the economy.

I am fighting for a little common sense...

Time to end the experiment.

And replace it with a "Let Them Eat Cake" mentality??

Why can't you see how bad Obamacare is for the middle class?

Why don't you acknowledge the fact that workers are getting screwed so that Democrats can claim a victory based on their train wreck legislation??

What's more important here??

Obama's ego or middle class Americans??

Working better for who?

The 30 million people w/o insurance?

I know you're fighting for business, Michale. And your concern is that somehow if we don't do everything that businesses tell us to do (more tax cuts, more deregulation, more corporate welfare) this is going to bring down the economy.

But it's been implemented before without the end of the world. Massachusetts is a great example.

Business has become the great welfare experiment of the last 30 years. With the idea that the benefits will trickle down. Only they haven't.

Time to end the experiment.

-David

The "current" system pre-Obamacare was working a LOT better than the current Obamacare system is working...

The problem is with the thinking that healthcare is an inalienable right, on par with freedom of speech and life, liberty and the pursuit of happyness...

In a perfect utopia, yea that would be the case..

But we don't live in a perfect utopia...

SOMEONE's gotta pay for all the benefits...

The problem with the Left's line of thinking is that it's all free and money can be printed...

That's just not the way it works in the real world...

Michale

"I am in favor of what works".

I can safely say we all agree.

So is the current system "working"?

I am in favor of what works...

Beyond that, I do not have the knowledge or expertise to know exactly what that might be.

I DO know that, if the people who had a hand in creating something that they now call a "train wreck", defending said "train wreck" as "better than nothing" doesn't seem to me to be a viable past time...

At least be honest and admit that you just want to undo it.

Let me put it this way...

If I have a spike thru the middle of my head that is causing me an excruciating amount of pain, what is my best course of action?

Trying to work with the spike in my head to make it more palatable??

Or do my damndest to "undo" (IE remove) it...

in many ways obamacare is better than nothing. just... not by all that much.

Since insurance rates are skyrocketing all over the country and since employers are cutting people's hours (hence pay) I would say that Obamacare is WORSE than "nothing".. By quite the large margin...

Again, I only have to remind ya'all of your OWN comments you made about Obamacare before it BECAME Obamacare to show that this is true...

But you never thought anything was wrong to begin with.

At least be honest and admit that you just want to undo it.

-David

maybe that's why most dems don't like it very much. i realize that there are many positives - for example, these ten:

http://money.usnews.com/money/blogs/the-best-life/2013/07/15/10-good-things-about-obamacare

in many ways obamacare is better than nothing. just... not by all that much.

JL

You're close to letting Michale oppose "something" i.e. Obamacare with "nothing".

Michale,

What do you propose for health care in the US? Are you in favor of passing the costs of care on the hospitals? Be positive, be specific. What are you in favor of?

Garbage In, Garbage Out. If something is so horrible to start with, it's useless to throw good money after bad.

Obamacare has little redeeming value. Even Democrats recognize this.

Better to start from scratch..

If businesses are going to cut worker hours to avoid providing health care, shouldn't we fix this "loophole"?

So, we're going to have the federal government order businesses to give people x number of hours so they can qualify for health care??

Why stop there??

Why not just have government take over all the businesses in the country and run them...

What could go wrong?? :D

That's the problem when government takes on an adversarial role to free enterprise...

That's the problem when government has a "my way or the highway" way of governing....

2016 simply CAN'T come soon enough...

Michale

If businesses are going to cut worker hours to avoid providing health care, shouldn't we fix this "loophole"?

-David

Half of Small Businesses Will Cut Employee Hours to Avoid Obamacare Penalties
nbcnews.com/id/52527792/ns/business-small_business/t/half-small-businesses-will-cut-employee-hours-avoid-obamacare-penalties/#.Uffv8m0iz2Y

Half Of Small Businesses Say They'll Cut Worker Hours Because Of Obamacare: Survey
huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/18/small-business-obamacare_n_3617493.html

These are the facts, people....

Ya know.. FACTS.. Something ya'all USED to cherish...

Before the advent of Emperor Barack The First....

Just look at what DEMOCRATS are saying about Obamacare.

"Train wreck"

"Unmitigated disaster"

"utter failure"

I could go on and on with quotes from DEMOCRATS about Obamacare...

But, as I said.. Why bother...

"There are none so blind as those who will not see."

Just peruse Weigantia and see what WEIGANTIANS were saying about Obamacare before it passed..

They said everything I have said and a bunch more.. ALL Weigantians despised Obamacare more than I did...

But, once it became Obama's signature legislation, all of the sudden it was peachy keen wonderful...

Go figger... :^/

Michale....

Actually, ALL of it is happening..

I could provide all the facts necessary to prove it beyond ANY doubt.

But it's of little use.. If the last month or so has proven ANYTHING, it's that facts mean very little around here when stacked up against partisan agendas...

Also ask yourself: if Obamacare is SO BAD why are Republicans lying through their teeth to denounce it?

Oh that's easy..

Republicans AREN'T lying..

Even DEMOCRATS are calling it a "train wreck" and trying to distance themselves from it.

Now, you ask YOURself.. If Obamacare is so good, why does it have to be delayed???

That's an easy one too..

Because it ISN'T good. It's not good at all..

Even the guy who WROTE it says that, for christ's sake!

Michale

http://rall.com/2013/07/29/sybil-obama

Answer... Because it just won't work.. Insurance rates across the country are sky rocketing. Middle Class workers are seeing their hours cut dramatically.. Large corporations are doing away with full-time employees to avoid Obamacare...

None of this is happening. You need to actually look outside and see the real world instead of believing right-wing-nut-world. Or just go and read fact-check or politifact for an hour and see how much absolute complete utter nonsense what Republicans are saying about Obamacare is.

Also ask yourself: if Obamacare is SO BAD why are Republicans lying through their teeth to denounce it?

It's the same reason why they invent fake socialist Obama to run against, because most of the policies implemented by Obama are ones they agree with (right of centre).

Same could be said for Democrats..

The real misfortune is that the 'liberal' media refuses to point out that it's one party gumming up the works.

That's because it's NOT just "one party" gumming up the works..

Democrats share the blame for trying the same old same old plans that have been PROVEN to be failures...

The very definition of insanity..

Take Obamacare.. If it was such a good idea, why is it becoming a "train wreck"... Why did Obama have to delay implementation??

Answer... Because it just won't work.. Insurance rates across the country are sky rocketing. Middle Class workers are seeing their hours cut dramatically.. Large corporations are doing away with full-time employees to avoid Obamacare...

How is ANY of this good???

Michale

It's going to be ugly until Republicans are actually held responsible for functional government.

Unfortunately, they've sold anti-government to their base. So all of the incentive is going to be to continue to be anti-government.

The real misfortune is that the 'liberal' media refuses to point out that it's one party gumming up the works.

This may be starting to change though as people and businesses become frustrated with the anti-everything approach.

http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Columns/2013/07/26/Ominous-Signs-for-the-GOP-in-2014.aspx#page1

-David

For once, the media is actually getting it right.

Both sides ARE equally bad in this.

This whole budget issue could be solved in an hour or two if BOTH Party's would do one simple thing.

Forget about partisan Party politics and personal power/greed and simply do what's best for the country and the American people.

The fact that NEITHER Republicans NOR Democrats will do this shows that, in this case, the media does have it right...

Both Partys are to blame..

It's that simple...

Michale