I agree.. It was simply a supposition...

As we have already ALL agreed, we ALL have our bigotry.. :D

This is all just a weak attempt by you at having a conversation on racism, when the subject at hand is Mitch McConnell getting his ass handed to him by John McCain.

Not really. We're already deep into that discussion over on the last http://FTP... :D

I just thought it interesting that taking Paula's rant and replacing "Republican" to "black" or "white" or "hispanic" and you would have the perfect racist rant..

To drop a nuke of sorts on this comment thread, Michale, do you "hate" Nazis?

Of course I do. And I "hate" terrorists. And child-molesters... And drug dealers...

As I said... As YOU said, we are all bigots...

I just think it somewhat comical how the Left in general (and certain Weigantians in particular) go on and on about how bad bigots are and then turn around and show such bigotry towards Republicans.. :D

It's like at that TOS episode LET THAT BE YOUR LAST BATTLEFIELD. Where these two half black/half white aliens were constantly at each others throats, constantly fighting and trying to kill each other. And then we come to find out that it's all because one is black on the right side and white on the left and the other is white on the right side and black on the left. And the audience is like, "jeezus how utterly ridiculous is THAT"...

Every time I read a bigoted rant on here against Republicans I see that episode in my mind all over again..

I apologize if it appeared that I was hijacking this commentary.. I really had no need to do so, since the FTP one is still going strong. To be honest, I never thought it would go beyond my one comment as Paula usually just ignores anything I post..

I guess I must have hit a nerve.. :D

I'll be more careful in the future..

Michale

Hey, I hear you. Although I'd say Harry Reid is the one who took the longest to wake up and smell the coffee (tea?). Nancy Pelosi figured it out a while back, I think.

Michale [10] -

Except, um, it's not. Are you born with your political beliefs, or can you change them? That's the heart of the subject of racism, and it is not here. So, sorry, but it's just not a valid concept in any way, shape, or form.

Paula [11] -

Thanks for putting it MUCH better than I just did. With you all the way on this one.

Michale [14] -

This is all just a weak attempt by you at having a conversation on racism, when the subject at hand is Mitch McConnell getting his ass handed to him by John McCain.

The difference, once again: you can CHANGE from being a Repubican to Democrat (or vice versa). You cannot change your race. This is why you are just attempting to hijack the conversation.

I realize you live in Florida, but not EVERYthing is about the Trayvon case, sorry.

To drop a nuke of sorts on this comment thread, Michale, do you "hate" Nazis? Why or why not? Are you bigoted for doing so? Why or why not? Yes, this is entering into Godwin's Law territory -- because, to me, racists are in the same category as Nazis. And the subject is pretty far indeed from what I think of today's American political scene, one way or the other, sorry.

-CW

Yea.. You said that you have good reasons to hate Republicans..

Every person who hates, loathes and abhors an entire CLASS of people *ALWAYS* think they have "good reasons"...

I seem to remember something about a path to hell being paved with "good reasons"....

Or something like that...

Michale

And a person who is racist could give you a long litany of reasons why...

Just like you gave me a long litany of reasons why you hate Republicans..

And I'll tell you what I would tell the racist person.

Yes, THIS Republican/black person may have did this and THAT Republican/black person may have did that..

But to condemn an ENTIRE group for the actions of SOME???

Most Republicans are good and decent people who just have a different set of values...

Just as most black people are good and decent people who just have a different skin color...

To paint the entire group with the brush of the bad ones??

Well, isn't that the very definition of bigotry???

Michale

Why do you abhor and loathe black people? Their answer would dictate my response to them.

You can't seem to grasp the difference between disgust at people's actions and disgust at people's existence. They aren't the same.

Separately, it becomes just another conservative dodge -- can't defend conservative actions so try to deflect attention from what they do to what people say about what they do. Then it's about "who's the real hater" versus "who's actions are indefensible, immoral and despicable?"

Repubs are very, very good and deflecting accountability. It was "democrats holding the ropes?" Aside from it's historical inaccuracy it is also just another dodge. Now its an "everyone did it" argument, or basically "we're not the only ones!" It was indefensible then, whoever did it, and any form of it is indefensible now, whoever does it.

I just sometimes have an overwhelming inclination to take those that are so self-righteous down a peg or two.. :D

Michale

OK... Fair enough..

Now, what would you think of someone who said, "I don't go out and shoot black people or tie them to fences lynch them or anything, but I still abhor and loathe black people"

You would call that person a racist, wouldn't you?

Of course you would.

Because it would be true...

So, once again, I have to point out that there really isn't any difference...

Further, I am constrained to point out that, in the history of lynching, it was usually DEMOCRATs that were holding the ropes..

I'm just sayin'.....

Michale

this screed applies only to active, self-described republicans who engage in the behaviors I deplore such as lying, using their powers and gifts to do harm, promoting dehumanization, supporting predatory corporate behavior, supporting, promoting, misinforming and writing laws that support gun sales and refusing to enact any common sense restrictions on gun sales, doing everything they can to hang on to their money while denying working people a living minimum wage, affordable medical benefits, or a Financial Sector that can be trusted and the list goes on. Excluded from this disclaimer are self-described republicans who are so out of touch with current affairs that they sincerely believe that republicans stand for fiscal conservatism or, in fact, stand for anything at all other than they disdain our Black president and virtually everyone that isn't white, rich, or willing to be good foot soldiers who vote against their own interests in order to make sure that those who are white and rich remain white and rich.

Then there would need to be a separate addendum for the christianists who defile Christianity and revel in sadism, looking forward to the end times wherein they will be able to go to heaven and observe from there the neverending sufferings to be endured by "unbelievers". They get off on the idea of devils torturing the damned, and think people deserve to be damned who have different religious and spiritual beliefs and/or who interpret the Christian Bible differently. These people couldn't care less about Climate Change as they expect the world to end anyway.

You see my problem?

See, these repubs and christianists actively create harm and suffering in the world. They don't just "believe" a lot of nasty things, they act on them. The unholy combination of money, power and religious zealotry -- not shared by every individual of them, but pooled together by enough of them to gain them significant power in the world -- gives them the ability to do damage, and they use it.

How, precisely, should they be described?

BTW, I looked up the definition of "hate", the first of which is "feel intense or passionate dislike". So it probably does apply to me. I like loathing better as I think it's more accurate re: my feelings: "feel intense dislike or disgust for", and abhor was best: "to abhor it is to feel a profound, shuddering, repugnance". Repugnance was defined as "intense disgust" and disgust was defined as "a feeling of revulsion or profound disapproval aroused by something unpleasant or offensive". All good descriptors.

The definition of prejudice: "preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience" and I reject that my remarks re: repubs are prejudiced. They are not preconceived and they ARE based on reason and actual experience.

The real question, the profound spiritual question for me is how to deal with, process, etc. the feelings repubs inspire in me? I have no problem with experiencing moments of hate, disgust, repugnance -- all of those are perfectly natural, human emotions. I have not achieved the level of enlightenment that takes people beyond those feelings. I don't feel guilt for those feelings -- but the question becomes "what then?"

What I don't do is go out and shoot republicans. Or tie them to fences and beat them to death. Or lynch them. Or menace them. Or bomb them. Or deliberately withhold medical help, food, heat, shelter. Or say they are poor because they deserve it. Or scorn their honest labors. And when I talk about them it's nearly always in conjunction with "what they DO". Because it is by their actions that we know them.

And what I want is for them to be declawed and removed from power because they abuse and squander it. And if any of them have a shred of self-awareness or develop same, they will one day be appalled by their past behaviors. Then they need to apologize and atone. Otherwise I simply don't want to cross their paths.

That is EXACTLY how a real racist would describe their racism..

Look, I am not saying you are racist. Please don't think that.

But you must admit, the thought process is the same..

You are assigning an entire group the traits of a relatively small minority..

You say "Republicans are evil"...

How is that any different than saying "black people are evil"??

Again, I am not saying you are racist.. Because Republicans and Democrats are not races. So you can't be racist because of your hatred of Republicans.

But, it IS a very bigoted and prejudice attitude..

Wouldn't you agree??

Michale

My views on today's republicans have been developed not from assumptions, but from a review of their actual, documented acts, and actual, documented words. Words and deeds. And when those words and deeds stink, they can be called stinky. Indeed they MUST be called stinky or the smell will only get worse. And there came a point where I stopped being willing to hold my nose and blame the dog. The stench is simply too foul.

And the thing is, you see, Black people are born black. They don't have a choice in the matter. But republican racists, violent women-hating, children starving republicans do have choices. They choose to be extraordinarily selfish, ignorant, mean-spirited, complacent, never-accountable, "the devil made me do it but YOU should be shot", hypocritical entities who debase Christianity by claiming it as their forever get-out-of-jail-free card. And if they aren't actual practitioners they are constant enablers-of and excuse-makers for the Rush Limbaughs and all his kindred acolytes.

Republicans and Dems aren't different "races". They are different spiritual beings.

I had an interesting conversation with a guy over at Banter Line..

He postulated a scenario where Liberal and Conservative were actually separate races...

If true, then your rant would HAVE to be labeled as racist...

Kinda makes ya think, eh??

At least, it SHOULD....

Michale

I've been extremely disappointed in the excessive learning curve that's been required by Dems to internalize the fact the the repubs are unworthy of respect, have no principles whatsoever, and are despicable opportunists who should be shunned. Because while powerful and wealthy Dems have agonized and deliberated over "comity" and "tradition" in Washington (both of which have been routinely spat upon by repubs), people all over this country have suffered. It has taken a lot of time and abuse to build up and puncture the beltway bubble but it is possible some amount of air and light may finally be seeping in from the actual country.

And good for Stevie Wonder.

Wrong commentary..

CW, could ya delete #7??

Sooweeeeee

Michale

Stevie who???

Michale

The ONLY reason that Reid is pushing for those nominees is because Obama got his pee pee slapped for violating the Constitution in nominating them during a "Senate Recess" when the Senate wasn't actually in recess..

Harry is trying to save face for Obama...

Now, the only question is, what is more important to Harry..

Kissing Obama's arse??

Or handing a VERY powerful weapon to the GOP when they become the majority in the Senate...

Can you imagine the what the GOP will do with the ability to kill the threat of filibuster on this issue??

Do ya'all REALLY want the GOP to have such power??

I mean, if the GOP is really as evil as ya'all claim, why would you support giving them such a powerful weapon??

It's a valid question..

Michale

Stranger things have happened..

None come to mind right now, but I am sure they're out there.. :D

Michale

Don't know whether Reid will fold or not, but if he gets Cordray and the NLRB and the EPA people confirmed, it will be a victory for him nevertheless. Let's see what happens in the next few days...

-CW

Wanna lay down some quatloos that Harry folds?? :D

Michale