http://tinyurl.com/ku9d7gy

I would also refer you to my current comment in the FTP commentary that lists many Leftist/Liberal/Progressive groups that perform the same actions as the Tea Party groups but enjoy unfettered and unquestioned tax exempt status..

Funny how that is, eh?

Michale

Right To Life groups were also targeted... Groups that had absolutely NOTHING to do with the Tea Party...

The ONLY common thread amongst ALL the groups targeted by Obama's IRS was that they were conservative groups..

And not ONE SINGLE documented case of Obama's IRS targeting any liberal/progressive groups...

"What are the odds???"
-Robin Williams, FATHERS DAY

Michale

i don't buy the irrelevancy argument, so bring on the argument that it's untrue. the groups targeted were TEA party, not establishment republicans like rove's crossroads organization for example.

Then WHY do it in secret???

http://www.chrisweigant.com/2013/05/31/ftp260/#comment-38068

As for settlement/dismissal; I'll stand aside as the difference there may not be worth the fight. It's sometimes easier just to settle rather than expend the effort in a fight.

"If the cause be just and honorable, they are prepared to give their lives."
-Captain Jean Luc Picard

:D

Michale

"The conservative groups were targeted to limit their fundraising for an election that, at the time, was becoming increasingly closer and closer.."

Exactly, Exactly, Exactly. Because those groups told the IRS they were not trying to raise funds for the election. They were pretending to be "social welfare" organizations & non-political. They were applying for tax-exempt status at the time you, so accurately, state they were raising funds for a political purpose.

As for settlement/dismissal; I'll stand aside as the difference there may not be worth the fight. It's sometimes easier just to settle rather than expend the effort in a fight.

Ignoring for the moment that this is not true, I submit that it is not relevant..

The conservative groups were targeted to limit their fundraising for an election that, at the time, was becoming increasingly closer and closer..

technically any social cause that contributes to an election campaign at all should not be eligible, so why pick on only the right-wing outsiders?

Exactly!!

If the goal is altruistic in the sense of nullifying the Citizens United ruling, then why ONLY go after Conservative groups??

ANSWER:

Because the goal was NOT altruistic. The goal was to go after conservatives and limit their ability to fund raise....

Michale

you're missing the point - mainstream republican groups were not targeted, only TEA party groups. it's not left vs. right, it's establishment vs. anti-establishment. technically any social cause that contributes to an election campaign at all should not be eligible, so why pick on only the right-wing outsiders?

If I get dinged for posting FNC links, you should get dinged for posting Media Matters links.. :D

Irregardless, the pimp getup doesn't change the facts of the recording of the dialog...

certainly not in any way sufficient to justify a nationwide campaign coordinated by the DHS.

Well, DHS has it's own problems as epitomized by Obama darling Napalitano...

But you simply CANNOT make the case that the OCCUPY groups were targeted for the purposes of swaying an election...

No way, no how....

, but their hands are not clean - they were violating federal code and they knew it.

And evidence for this is.... what exactly???

and occupy are not all terrible and evil.

No, not evil and terrible...

Just hypocritical arrogant thugs who need to more than a passing acquaintance with soap and water...

Keep in mind that THAT ^^^^ refers to the true Occupiers, not the ones who played at it and then went home.

Michale

certainly not in any way sufficient to justify a nationwide campaign coordinated by the DHS. and as to your assertion that the tea party groups had violated no laws, that's not entirely true either, as lewdan pointed out in a prior post. said violations certainly don't justify their being singled out for special treatment, but their hands are not clean - they were violating federal code and they knew it. they are not, as you are wont to say, pure as the driven snow, and occupy are not all terrible and evil.

~joshua

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/06/15/preliminary-report-clears-acorn/

... if true, which it wasn't.

http://mediamatters.org/research/2010/03/02/breitbart-confirms-he-was-duped-by-okeefe-and-t/161084

No offense, but you'll have to link that..

Helping people buy a home for the purposes of child prostitution doesn't strike me as a legal activity..

At the very least, it's immoral, unethical and totally bogus..... dood... :D

perhaps not the IRS, but homeland security were involved in the nationwide occupy crackdowns. while there is no hard evidence to support any conspiracy theories of political suppression, there was absolutely national coordination to destroy all of the occupy encampments.

The fact that they were actively breaking the law might have SOMETHING to do with that.. :D I'm just sayin'.... :D

No one has found that the groups associated with the Tea Party were breaking the law, active or otherwise..

Much to the chagrin of the Left, I am sure.. :D

the obama administration may not have actively participated in the occupy crackdowns, but they were definitely in the loop. as for planned parenthood:

Yea, they were..

Seems that the Obama Administration intervened for the BENEFIT of Planned Parenthood..

In a victory for Planned Parenthood, the U.S. Supreme Court on Tuesday declined to consider whether the state of Indiana can prevent the nonprofit, which is the country's largest provider of abortions, from receiving federal Medicaid funding for any medical services it offers to low-income people.

From your link..

Regardless, there is simply no comparison against the Left that compares to the actions of Obama's IRS against Conservatives..

The only thing that comes close is the Left's accusations of the Right targeting minority voters for disenfranchisement...

Which *IF TRUE* is comparative to the actions of Obama's IRS...

Michale

the obama administration may not have actively participated in the occupy crackdowns, but they were definitely in the loop. as for planned parenthood:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/28/us-usa-court-abortion-idUSBRE94R0ID20130528

you missed the earlier point; ACORN's actions were later found by a court of law NOT to be illegal. selective editing made it SEEM like they were doing some illegal things that a review of ALL the related facts revealed they were in fact not doing at all. you've said the same of george zimmerman, just to cite an example of someone else who a partial and selective review of evidence in the media made seem VERY guilty. whether or not an alleged crime is actually the case needs to be proven; that's why courts exist.

perhaps not the IRS, but homeland security were involved in the nationwide occupy crackdowns. while there is no hard evidence to support any conspiracy theories of political suppression, there was absolutely national coordination to destroy all of the occupy encampments.

http://markcrispinmiller.com/2013/05/us-deployed-counter-terror-system-to-monitor-and-disrupt-occupy/

That also says I am warm....

Apparently, on the LEFT side of the aisle, the rule of the day is, THE ENDS JUSTIFIES THE MEANS..

Now, historically and categorically, I am on record as absolutely and 1000% totally OK with such a philosophy...

I just never thought I would have so much company in that mind-think on the Left.. :D

I'm just sayin'..... :D

Michale

I bet I can answer that..

Because deep down (or maybe NOT so deep down) ya'all (with a few notable exceptions) feel that conservatives DESERVE to be targeted, harassed and intimidated by the IRS...

As does anyone else who dares speak against Emperor Barack The First...

Am I warm???

http://www.campusreform.org/blog/?ID=4770

Because that says I am warm.....

Michale

That came out a little harsher (IE snooty) than I intended..

What I mean to say is that there hasn't been a Leftist group targeted, harassed and intimidated solely and unequivocally based on their political ideology..

And not for the purposes of swaying and/or influencing an election..

About the closest thing you can come to from the Right that compares with Obama's IRS actions would be the alleged targeting of minority voters by the Right..

And we all know exactly how ya'all felt about THAT..

So, why is THAT horrendous but the IRS targeting is no big deal???

Michale

Which had absolutely NOTHING to do with ACORN aiding and abetting criminal actions..

The fact that the video surveillance was not legally obtained has absolutely NO BEARING on the illegality of ACORN's actions...

If I illegally tape a scumbag breaking the law, that doesn't mean that the scumbag is NOT breaking the law...

planned parenthood and the occupy movement have also been the subjects of intensive and generally unwarranted scrutiny by the government,

For example....??????

though admittedly not the IRS in particular.|

Then I fail to see the relevance with regards to Obama's IRS scandal.... :D

Michale

you recall incorrectly. a court of law found that ACORN was improperly targeted by the media and congress, due to a michael moore style propaganda job against its employees. congressional action was ruled unconstitutional as a bill of attainder, and the agent provocateur who created the video of alleged (and disproven) wrongdoing was later convicted of illegally bugging a senator's phone lines.

planned parenthood and the occupy movement have also been the subjects of intensive and generally unwarranted scrutiny by the government, though admittedly not the IRS in particular.

~joshua

Rate Shock: In California, Obamacare to Increase Individual Health Insurance Premiums by 64-146%
http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/05/30/rate-shock-in-california-obamacare-to-increase-individual-insurance-premiums-by-64-146/

Wasn't ObamaCare supposed to REDUCE the costs of healthcare, not triple it???

Michale

"AIDIN' n ABETTIN'...!!"
-Sheriff Farley, MY COUSIN VINNY

:D

.... criminal activities...

Don't know much about Planned Parenthood. Don't really care...

Occupy??

A bunch of whiney privileged and petty thugs who need to bathe and who complain when THEIR "wealth" is re-distributed...

Michale

Any evidence that they were targeted by the IRS???

None that I have seen.. And, as I indicated, if there was such evidence it's likely that the Left would be pointing to it and saying, "See!!?? Lefty groups were targeted too!!!"

We're not seeing that, so it is likely there is no evidence to support such a claim..

Michale

ACORN? planned parenthood? occupy wall street?

The evidence that the IRS illegally targeted conservatives is becoming more and more damning...

It's funny how there hasn't been ANY evidence that any groups palatable to the Obama Administration have undergone the same level of scrutiny...

Granted, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence but one would surely think that, if there WERE instances of that happening it would be all over the liberal MSM...

Michale

If I recall correctly, Nixon's AG went to jail for that... Scooter Libby was convicted of that..

Does anyone here think that Holder should keep his job???

Michale

Actually, Obama's numbers are WAY down amongst us Independents..

Which you would know if you actually READ something that was objective instead of gorging on the Obama Kookaid... :D

Michale

So, in your mind, Tea Party = "Intend To Flout The Tax Laws"

Well, at least your bigotry is admitted and out in the open now..

Admitting you are a bigot is the first step..

Congratulations..

Michale

If the black or hispanic group was called 'Blacks Who Intend To Flout The Tax Laws' or 'Hispanic Tax Avoidance Group' I'd have absolutely no problem with the IRS targeting them.

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/05/obama-job-approval-poll-92023.html

In addition to Joshua's comment, it is worth noting that Obama's poll numbers are actually pretty good considering his unfavourability among Republicans is something like 90-10 in almost every poll. In this particular poll it is 86-9%.

He is still viewed favourably by Democrats and (in most polls) Independents - probably because they don't watch Fox or listen to the right-wing noise machine that has been clattering on about XXX-gate for years...

Killjoy... :D

Michale

that's not his first negative poll this month. ratings have been scattered, but the poll of polls is still in the same place it's been for the past three and a half years, and will likely continue to be for the next three and a half.

~joshua

Through 2012, then-Exempt Organization Specialist Stephen Seok signed many of the intimidating letters sent to conservative nonprofits. For example, this January 2012 letter sent to the Richmond Tea Party demanded the date, time and location of all group events, as well as copies of all handouts provided at the event, and the names and credentials of all organizers. Seok also demanded the names of all speakers and the contents of the speeches they made.

There's yer "questionnaires", Michty....

One has to wonder how ya would have reacted if Bush's IRS had sent these "questionnaires" to black groups or hispanic groups or progressive/liberal groups requesting tax-exempt status....

My guess is ya'all would have gone ballistic...

Thereby once again proving the power of the almighty '-x'... :D

Michale

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/05/obama-job-approval-poll-92023.html

All I can say is it's bout time...

Michale

And the hits just KEEP on comin'!!!

Michale

And if you TRY to do that, the jury has the obligation to take that into account when determining your guilt...

Awesome justice system, eh?? :D

Michale

We have the rule of Law here in the United States.

You cannot testify under oath as to your innocence and then plead the fifth to avoid cross-examination..

It's not allowed...

Michale

Sending out questionnaires???

Yea.. That's *all* the IRS did...

Right...

Last time I checked there was no 'right to not have your business affairs looked into by the IRS'.

No. The "right" comes in not being harassed or intimidated by the IRS based on political ideology.

Just like you have the right not to be harassed by the IRS based on one's race...

But I am sure you condone racial profiling, since you are all for ideological profiling..

Michale

CW - QuestionnaireElectionRigGate. Add it to the list.

Last time I checked there was no 'right to not have your business affairs looked into by the IRS'. But hey maybe you should push for this to be added as a constitutional amendment...

Some Americans HAVE lost some of their rights.

Conservative lost the right to be treated fairly by Obama's IRS with no discrimination..

But that was done to win an election.. Not for any National Security reasons...

Michale

- Right to vote
- Right to fair, democractic elections
- Right to remain silent
- Right to a fair trial
- Right to work anywhere
- Right to marry
- Right to privacy
etc etc etc

You have a tendency to just throw up lists w/o any substantiation whatsoever..

Can you DOCUMENT any of those rights you have allegedly lost??

Of course you can't... It's nothing but hysterical fear-mongering...

Michale

Really? Off the top of my head:

- Right to vote
- Right to fair, democractic elections
- Right to remain silent
- Right to a fair trial
- Right to work anywhere
- Right to marry
- Right to privacy
etc etc etc

Obama's just lost his biggest ally....

That's what happens when one starts believing their own PR...

Michale

And what rights would that be, exactly??

Oh yea, that's right. We can't take hair gel on an airplane.

Oh the infamy!!! THE HORROR!!!!

Those who think otherwise (or those who think this is a scandal - pretty much the same people) clearly have no idea how the IRS works...

Perhaps

But I sure as hell know how Obama's IRS is NOT supposed to work..

And Obama's IRS is NOT supposed to target groups for harassment and intimidation due to political ideology...

Michale

Kinda like the Republican who is against gay marriage but then when his son turns out to be gay changes his mind.

Just sucks that there aren't enough journalists with the integrity to have brought this up before...

And +1 to DB. I will bet anything you want that the IRS will not pay a penny to anyone. Those who think otherwise (or those who think this is a scandal - pretty much the same people) clearly have no idea how the IRS works...

So, you agree with me that National Security trumps the public's right to know, eh?? :D

We'll make a "me" out of ya yet! :D

Michale

It will be impossible to prove my case as any settlement will likely not disclose details.

So any wager would likely have to be settlement/dismissal..

I am absolutely confident that there won't be any dismissal...

And any settlement will likely require the government to admit wrong-doing..

So, if you want to take the settlement/dismissal bet, yer on.. :D

As far as Holder and the AP/FNC scandal I wonder how pro-AG ya'all would be if we were talking about Gonzalez or Ashcroft...

Actually, one doesn't have to wonder. One just has to review recent history... :D

Michale

Wrong. The Slave Trade. As in not prohibited before 1808.

"might be a "co-conspirator" & "never the target" are not mutually exclusive statements. Investigating a "co-conspirator" is not less valid when the target of the investigation is elsewhere.

"Historically, the federal government does not have a very good track record..." Even assuming you're right & I will take the proposition that urging men to resist the draft in time of declared war is undermining the war effort. The fact that the issue has been misused in the past does not make the current use invalid.

I will stand for the proposition that the CIA & President Obama & AG Holder have the right, no duty, to protect the identity of CIA assets in the DPRK. Whether from spies, leakers, or pseudo journalists from pseudo "news" services is of no matter.

Michael #2.

Covered. No money will change hands. Suggest stakes.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/05/29/aclj-files-lawsuit-on-behalf-25-tea-party-groups-against-holder-lew-and-irs/

Still think it's not a scandal??

Things are going to get very very bad for the Obama Administration..

My bet is that the Administration will give anything, pay any amount to settle this thing out of court...

Michale

It's also worth noting that Holder went "judge shopping" to find a judge that would sign off on the warrant..

Two judges refused to issue the warrant.

Holder finally found one that would..

Great commentary...

And not just because I have been saying similar things for years! :D

Michale