As more comes out about this, it doesn't look good. I haven't seen a good explanation of why these groups were questioned and some folks need to be held accountable.

My only point is:

1) It's very difficult to separate political attacks from actual issues in the conservative media given their tactics

2) Conservatives still appear to be conspiracy-hyping this as much more than it actually was.

-David

Simple..

*ONLY* Conservative groups were targeted..

Put another way..

Would you have a problem with a GOP Administration's IRS targeting black groups or hispanic groups for extra scrutiny??

Damn skippy you would..

So, you would have a problem with the IRS targeting groups based on race, but you have NO problem with the IRS targeting groups based on political ideology..

Could you explain the "logic" of such an attitude because it escapes me...

4. Since 2009 "Tea Party", "Patriot", and "Constitution" groups have been formed with the express & implied purpose of attacking President Obama &/or his policies.

You are in error..

The Tea Party was formed to protest excesses in the government. Tea Party has attacked GOP policies nearly as many times as it attacked Democrat policies..

EVEN if what you say is true (which it isn't) that doesn't give Obama's IRS license to target those groups.

Do you have evidence that the IRS targeted groups with "progressive" or "liberal" associated with them??

If you had such evidence, then you would have a case.

But you don't, so you don't...

For me, this is (yet another) example of Breibarting. The Post & WSJ articles you cite only reinforce my opinion that the MSM is missing the key issue here.

Which is tax-exempt status.

No, the key issue is Obama's IRS targeting groups based on political ideology..

THAT is as wrong as the IRS targeting groups based on racial ideology..

If you could remove your ideological blinders, you would *have* to concede that I am right here..

Michale

To get to the point.

1. Tax exempt status forbids certain political activity.
2. Misuse of tax-exempt status is fraud.
3. The IRS is tasked with investigating misuse of tax-exempt status.
4. Since 2009 "Tea Party", "Patriot", and "Constitution" groups have been formed with the express & implied purpose of attacking President Obama &/or his policies.
5. Such groups may not be entitled to tax-exempt status.

So why, Michale, do you object to investigation to insure that groups claiming tax-exempt status are in fact, entitled to it?

For me, this is (yet another) example of Breibarting. The Post & WSJ articles you cite only reinforce my opinion that the MSM is missing the key issue here.

Which is tax-exempt status.

Everyone (sans our host) immediately leapt to Obama's defense...

Funny how that is, eh??

The phrase "Me thinks thou doth protest TOO much" comes to mind..

:D

Michale

Really???

The investigation also revealed that a high-ranking IRS official knew as early as mid-2011 that conservative groups were being inappropriately targeted—nearly a year before then-IRS Commissioner Douglas Shulman told a congressional committee the agency wasn't targeting conservative groups.

Michale

ANYTHING to distract the American people from Benghazi..

Looks like it was a moronic call..

NOW, the people are not only pissed about the incompetence of Benghazi, NOW they are also pissed about Obama's Enemies List...

Good call!!! :D

Michale

IRS targeted groups that criticized the government, IG report says
washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2013/05/12/irs-targeted-groups-that-criticized-the-government-ig-report-says/

Wider Problems Found at IRS
Probe Says Tax Agency Used Sweeping Criteria to Scrutinize Conservative Groups
online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324715704578478851998004528.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_LEFTTopStories

You were saying something about only fraud was investigated??

Amazing how ONLY conservative groups and those groups unfriendly to Obama were investigated..

Jeezus, people..

They jackass hails from and earned his political chops in CHICAGO!!!

Why is it so hard to believe that he is NOT as pure as the driven snow as ya'all make him out to be???

Are ya'all so blinded by Left/Right partisan BS that you can't step back and view things OBJECTIVELY, as CW has done???

I mean, com'on!!

Michale

If "tax fraud is tax fraud" why did Obama's IRS only look for "fraud" amongst groups that were unfriendly to Obama???

That's not looking for tax fraud..

That's employing an enemies list..

Now, if you want to make the case that ONLY groups unfriendly to Obama are capable of fraud, that all the Pro Obama groups are as pure as the driven snow, then by all means..

Make that case..

But, please.. Come with facts...

Because the FACTS we have in the here and now are that Obama's IRS targeted conservative groups.

PERIOD...

Michale

So..... It's Bush's fault!

Gotcha :D

2. Who discovered this "targeting" and reported it? Looks like it was the IRS.

And that makes it OK???

3. What additional questions did they ask these Tea Party groups?

Who their donors are, which the IRS admits they had NO RIGHT nor cause to ask..

But it looks more like some low-level officials screwed up and then tried to hide it because they feared a backlash.

And, of course, you would think the same if it was "Progressive" or "Liberal" groups that were targeted during the Bush re-election of 2004, right??

Pardon me, but I may have been born at night, but it wasn't LAST night..

This is pure, blatant political/ideological targeting..

Nothing less...

There's no evidence of any Obama enemies list or Obama orders to the IRS.

The fact that it was done under Obama is sufficient..

The buck stops there, in case you forget..

Just as the buck would have stopped there if it had happened under the Bush administration..

Michale

Would it be arrogant to point out that "Mr. Brink" over a Bob Cesca's site at 7:56 posted an article rather splitting the difference between David & me.
David,

I remain convinced that this was a 501c3 issue. & the "Tea Party's" professed & actual political activities made the possibilities of misuse & fraud likely.

In so far as that disagrees with your analysis.

Michale:

Read my last paragraph from quarter of 3 yesterday. Or more plainly: Tax fraud is tax fraud regardless of the perpetrator. You're going to respond: NPR & I'm going to point out that NPR does not engage in political activities. You are going to say they do & I'm going to respond that not jumping on the RW bandwagon is not engaging in politics.

A few details that seem to be missing from all of the IRS/Tea Party conspiracy stories.

1. The Commissioner of the IRS at the time was George Shulman, a Bush appointee

2. Who discovered this "targeting" and reported it? Looks like it was the IRS.

3. What additional questions did they ask these Tea Party groups?

I bring up #1 to diffuse any conspiracy theories about Obama calling the IRS to "target" the Tea Party. This is ridiculous.

I bring up #2 because it seems like the IRS figured out they made a mistake and then raised the issue themselves. Not exactly the trademarks of a conspiracy.

I bring up #3 because according to the IRS, they weren't actually "targeted" because of their political bias, but were trying to streamline their work.

If the IRS was actually "targeting" conservative groups, this is wrong.

But it looks more like some low-level officials screwed up and then tried to hide it because they feared a backlash.

Now let's look at the Tea Party spin:

"What would Democrats have done if the Nixon administration ordered the IRS to actively target the National Organization of Women or the American Civil Liberties Union? Nixon had his own enemies list and resigned. These activities are eerily similar, and yet Obama remains in office even in light of Fast and Furious, the Benghazi tragedy, and now the active targeting of his political opposition."

Only problem is ... all the evidence points to a low-level boondoggle.

There's no evidence of any Obama enemies list or Obama orders to the IRS.

If we had a better media or a "liberal" media, they would be asking these questions and not fueling the rampant conspiracy theories.

-David

"It's not true. It's not true. It's not true. It's not true....... It's old news"

Even Obama's stalwart allies in the MSM are being forced to cover Benghazi and ask, "What's going on here??"

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2013/05/benghazi-cia-talking-point-edits-white-house.html?mobify=0

On a more happy note.... I'll be leaving the country for a while tomorrow... So ya'all will likely have a week or so to show that Weigantia is NOT a ghost town when I am not posting..

Sorry if that comes out as egotistical but it seems whenever I take a break from here, the only sound around here is the tumbleweeds blowing..

It sure would be nice if people could support CW.COM w/o having me to kick around, eh?? :D

I'm just saying...

Michale

So, let me see if I understand this...

Obama is wishing every mother a "Happy Mother's Day" and is telling them they get free shit that will PREVENT them from being mothers.....

Did I sum that up right???

W.T.F. passes for LOGIC amongst the Left these days??

Michale

zzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

{{{yaaaawwwwnnnnnn}}}

I wish I could say I was surprised...

Sadly, I am not...

I can't wait til we have a GOP Administration and the IRS starts targeting groups that have "Progressive" or "Liberal" about them...

THEN we can compare and contrast the reactions from the so-called "enlightened" Left...

Michale

You miss the point.

"The IRS targeted ONLY Tea-Party groups..
If the IRS had targeted groups based on non-profit requirements, you would have a case.."

The IRS is targeting groups that are both "Tea Party" AND non-profit.That is the key fact that most news services ignore. Since "Tea Party" is essentially political and non-profit status precludes political activity; the scrutiny seems warranted.

I'd like to think that I'd approve of the Bush Administration going after tax cheats; regardless of political affiliation.

Guess not ALL Americans are happy with Anti-Gun Democrats, eh? :D

Michale

Ya'all would go ape-shit...

Michale

The IRS targeted ONLY Tea-Party groups..

If the IRS had targeted groups based on non-profit requirements, you would have a case..

But they didn't so you don't..

The IRS targeted the groups that had "Tea Party" or "Patriot" in it's name...

That is as wrong as wrong can be, no matter HOW ya spin it..

Michale

Reluctant to say this out loud, but among friends,

As I understand it the IRS was targeting Tea Party, Non-Profit Organizations. I have seen almost nothing on this & I'm chalking it up to the "media" can't get a legal issue right.

Non-profits are not allowed to engage in politics. This makes sense. We're using tax payer funds to support those organizations (by not having them pay taxes otherwise due) The causes ought to be those generally agreed upon, feeding homeless, fighting cancer, battered women, you name it. Politics is a divisive issue & we generally split on the issue. Most recently fairly closely 52% vs 48%. So no non-profit politics.

But the Tea Party is a political group. Its' purpose is politics. So when a Tea Party group claims non-profit status; there's a problem.

So the IRS is well within its' mandate, & in fact should, target Tea Party Organizations to insure they comply with & conform to non-profit requirements.

All of which you can't say out loud.

OK, that was un-called for..

Cesca IS a political bigot. Of that there is no doubt..

But it was uncalled for to refer to him as a "moron"...

Personal attacks should NEVER be part of debates or discussions.

If he reads here, he has my sincerest apologies...

Michale

It's amazing how NOTHING is ever Obama's fault..

It's always "Bush's fault"....

Michale

That someone in the IRS actually ADMITTED it!!

Wonder what brought that all about...

Iddn't it funny that NO ONE in the Leftiest blogosphere is commenting on how the IRS targeted conservative groups??

CW.COM is the ONLY place I have seen them called out on it..

Which is why CW.COM is THE premier political site in the world.. :D

Now, pardon me while I rub this brown stuff off my nose..

I have ta say, it's a bad time to be a Democrat/Leftie these days.. :D

Michale

Of course I haven't..

That's because A> I haven't had the time to research them. I am sure they are all blown out of proportion in an attempt to make them seem comparable to Benghazi and B> they are completely and utterly irrelevant to the Benghazi situation..

Did Bush, in those instances, lie to the American people in an attempt to sway an election??

No..

Ergo, NONE OF THOSE instances, even if they DID occur as stated, are relevant to Obama's bonehead moves on Benghazi..

If you like me to research those incidents and see if they actually compare to Benghazi, I'll be happy to do so.

But it's ancillary and not relevant to the main point..

So, you're saying that the government should FORCE parents to be involved with their kids? Um, yeah, nothing could possibly go wrong with that idea, either.

Nope, not what I am saying at all..

But I think you would agree that giving kids wedge issues to use against their parents is the worst of a whole slew of bad ideas...

Kids have sex. You can either pretend that that's not true, or deal with it in productive ways.

Interesting choice of words.. :D

I'm interested... what do you think of the feasibility of #3? One strike/DD? Bump a general one grade lower? Do tell, I'd be interested to hear your take on these suggestions...

Well, let me clear up a few myths right now..

Any General officer caught in such positions, their career is over. If they have risen to General rank, then it's likely they're lifers so, when their career is over, their lives are over as well..

Taking the legal system out of the hands of commanding officers is a bonehead move. It is trying to civilian-ize the military.

We can only guess what would happen if the government tried to militarize the civilian legal system...

Oh wait, we don't HAVE to guess. We know EXACTLY what happened. Democrats and the Left went apeshit...

Commanding officers make decisions such as those based on ONE consideration and one consideration only.

The needs of the service..

Political considerations should NEVER become part of those deliberations.

You can't run a military by committee...

Michale

I'm interested... what do you think of the feasibility of #3? One strike/DD? Bump a general one grade lower? Do tell, I'd be interested to hear your take on these suggestions...

-CW

I notice you didn't contradict any of Cesca's facts. So much for that "no attacks on American soil under Bush (after the big one on 9/11)" line, eh?

Yea.. Gods forbid we should actually do something that would get parents INVOLVED in their kids' lives...

What could POSSIBLY go wrong there, eh???

So, you're saying that the government should FORCE parents to be involved with their kids? Um, yeah, nothing could possibly go wrong with that idea, either.

Kids have sex. You can either pretend that that's not true, or deal with it in productive ways. Forcing a notarized signature is not a productive way, unless you consider hiking STD rates among teens "productive" in any way.

LewDan -

Yeah, I even crack myself up at times...

Heh.

-CW

Wedgie?!

lol I love it!!

Wouldn't these actions constitute a war on women AND a war on immigrants???

I'm just sayin'... :D

There's a lot going on in the political world this week, so our talking points will be all over the map. I'm not going to talk about Benghazi, because Bob Cesca already wrote such an excellent article (which adds some much-needed perspective) that there's nothing really more for me to say on the subject.

Really??

Ignoring for the moment that Cesca is a complete and utter political bigot and moron who couldn't debate a REAL knowledgeable opponent w/o resorting to dictatorial censorship, the simply fact is his trash is nothing but the old "Yea, but" defense...

Did Bush lie to the American people over those attacks for almost 2 weeks solely and completely because of an up-coming election??

No???

Then those acts don't even come CLOSE to what Obama has pulled on Benghazi..

Com'on!! Be FAIR here...

If this debacle and it's total BS aftermath had occurred under a GOP administration, ya'all would be leading the call for blood..

One only has to look at the circus that was the Iraq and 9/11 witch hunts to know that THIS is a fact...

Obama, Clinton et al won't be able to hide from Benghazi..

Ya'all claimed that nothing would ever come from Benghazi..

I said ya'all were wrong...

Looks like we're seeing who called it and who didn't...

"This week, two state legislatures legalized gay marriage, and it barely made the news. That right there is a powerful statement -- it's becoming such a normal thing that even two states voting to legalize gay marriage in the same week barely raises an eyebrow."

This is kinda like the old dig, "How can we miss ya if you never go away??"

How can we accept gay as "normal" when every time something "gay" happens, it's treated as the second coming???

The Republicans just can't help themselves, it seems. The newest battleground in the War On Women is North Carolina, where a bill has been introduced to require a notarized statement from a minor's parent before any STD testing can occur. Boy, that'll solve the whole problem, right?

Yea.. Gods forbid we should actually do something that would get parents INVOLVED in their kids' lives...

Better that kids enlist the help of the government against their own parents.

What could POSSIBLY go wrong there, eh???

"If the reports are true that IRS agents specifically singled out Tea Party groups for special scrutiny solely because they were Tea Party groups, then I would fully expect some heads to roll. Anyone responsible for doing such a thing should be fired on the spot, and any supervisor even aware of such activities should also be cashiered immediately. The IRS should not be used as a political weapon -- ever, by anyone, for any reason. Period."

Oooorraaaaaaaa...

I bet NO Weigantian will chime in and agree with this one...

But you call it dead on ballz accurate, CW..

This is wrong no matter what..

But the vast majority of the Left will look at this as perfectly justified. Republicans are evil, after all. They deserve what they get...

That's why I like it here.. By and large with you CW, politics takes a back seat to the right thing...

I wish your attitude wore off on others of the Left..

This country would be a LOT better off if it did...

We'll see how many Weigantians chime in with #4...

I bet ONE.... POSSIBLY two...

Michale