That's a cop-out..

It's like saying "It might rain today, it might not"...

You're likely to be right, but it don't mean very much..

When George Bush bailed out the banks to prevent the financial sector from collapsing, I thought that was the right thing to do given the situation. I didn't like that he had to do it. And he could have done it in a way that benefited homeowners more directly. But it was the right thing to do.

If you can show me the posts you (or anyone else) made to that effect AT THE TIME you'll NEVER hear another word about it from me ever again...

But I am guessing you can't.. :D

I'll name a good Republican idea when they have one.

So, in other words, Republicans are always wrong and Democrats are always right..

But hay.. I'll be your Huckleberry.. :D

I'll name a good Obama/Democrat idea when they have one..

Ooopss. I HAVE.... :D I simply LOVE Obama's approach to Counter Terrorism.... :D

Your turn...

Michale

I love when you present your ONLY options.

This is a great trick btw. One of the options is the option you want. And the other option is always some crazy option which makes your option look good by comparison.

What about ... ?

3. Republicans haven't presented any good solutions in recent memory.

When George Bush bailed out the banks to prevent the financial sector from collapsing, I thought that was the right thing to do given the situation. I didn't like that he had to do it. And he could have done it in a way that benefited homeowners more directly. But it was the right thing to do.

Lately, their platform and what they believe in simply is terrible.

Republicans of today seem to believe in 1 thing. Seeing Obama fail.

All of their ideas are a means to this end. Even if they have to go so far as to sink the economy.

I'll name a good Republican idea when they have one. Until then, maybe they should work on coming up with another platform other than "We hate Obama"

-David

BOB WOODWARD: A 'Very Senior' White House Person Warned Me I'd 'Regret' What I'm Doing
http://www.businessinsider.com/bob-woodward-obama-sequester-white-house-reporting-price-politics-2013-2

WHITE HOUSE unchained!!!

Michale

Which makes you the exception that PROVES the rule..

NO ONE here has been able to come up with ANYTHING that they agree with Republicans and disagree with Democrats over..

NOT ONE SINGE ISSUE, despite me BEGGING for YEARS for them to provide me with one..

So, based on this (one again) only TWO possibilities exist..

1. The Republicans are **ALWAYS** wrong...

or

2. Rank and file Weigantians are NOT ALWAYS right when they blame Republicans..

Of course, number 2 is the, logically and rationally, correct answer..

But it's been my experience that logic and rational are in short supply when the Left gets their dander up over the Right... :D

Ironically enough, MICHTY (of all people) is the ONLY Weigantian to come CLOSE to logic and rational when he labeled Obama "incompetent" over his handling of the economy.. Obama's handling, not Michty's handling.. :D

But it seems that other Weigantians' "tongues would surely turn to fire" (a thousand quatloos if you can cite the reference :D) if they EVER dissed "The One", The Great And Powerful Barack The First.....

Michale..

I guess we'll find in about a year and a half which Party is really out of touch, eh? :D

Especially if Obama and the Democrats accept the GOP's gauntlet that has been thrown down and THEY take COMPLETE control over Budget Issues.. :D

Michale

Anyone else? There are plenty of "GOP ignores science" subjects, feel free to toss out your own... how about "tax cuts pay for themselves," that's always a good one...

And their are plenty of "DEMOCRATS ignores science" subjects as well..

Like the two I mentioned..

If Democrats were about SCIENCE, then they would acknowledge the science that DISPROVES their agenda..

The fact that Democrats don't acknowledge that science PROVES that Democrats are only about agenda-based "science"...

In other words, Democrats are all about policy-based evidence, rather than evidence-based policy..

We're not saying there is "no way" Republicans can be correct, we are instead saying flat-out that Republicans "are not correct" on their issues.

No, rank and file Weigantians are saying that Republicans are not correct on ANY issue..

But hay.. I'll let them prove me wrong..

Let them find an issue that the Republicans are correct on that the Democrats are not.. :D

Because I sure as hell cannot see ANY position that Republicans have that ANYONE here would agree with..

So, only ONE of TWO possibilities exist..

Either,

A> Republicans are ALWAYS wrong...

or

2> Weigantians are wrong...

Now, I think you would agree that A simply CANNOT be possible..

:D

Michale

One slight correction, otherwise I found your list hilariously accurate!

Drugs -- both parties wrong. GOP stuck in the 1800s.

Actually, in the 1800s it was pretty much free market/laissez faire on drugs. You could by heroin or cocaine down at the corner drug store, cheap and pure. See: "Laudanum" for details, if you don't believe it.

I would put it: "GOP stuck in the 1930s" as that's when the anti-drug hysteria really took off.

Other than that, fine list!

Michale [86] -

So, the Left isn't about science at all. Science is simply a tool that they use/discard at will to further the ideological agenda...

Awww, and you were doing so well! Heh. I know you really meant to say "the Right" in that sentence, right? See: teaching of evolution in public schools as "science," for starters. Or how about, see: teaching of abstinence-only as "sex ed". Every scientific study ever done on abstinence-only teaching shows it doesn't work. Republican answer? Double the funding, maybe that'll fix it!

Anyone else? There are plenty of "GOP ignores science" subjects, feel free to toss out your own... how about "tax cuts pay for themselves," that's always a good one...

I guess what it all boils down to is that rank and file Weigantians insist up and down that there is NO WAY that Republicans can be correct on ANY issue..

And that simply defies reason...

No, actually, it's because the Republicans defy reason on a daily basis. We're not saying there is "no way" Republicans can be correct, we are instead saying flat-out that Republicans "are not correct" on their issues. It's not a matter of personal projection, it's a matter of what the GOP stands for.

I was glad you put up your own list of where you agree with Dems, as it saved me the trouble. I would likely have added a few constitutional issues that I think you'd probably agree more with the Dem position as a whole than the Republican position. But, as I said, you saved me the trouble.

After thinking about it, there is one other issue that I agree with the (current, but could be fleeting) Republican position on, over the Democrats'. Now, I should mention that this hasn't ever really come to a vote (that I'm aware of), it's just one of those policy ideas that get batted around like a shuttlecock in Washington. So a more accurate statement might be "I agree with what some Republicans were pushing, over the objections of some Democrats" as I don't really know if EITHER party really has an accepted "party line" on the issue (I think the Dems do, but not sure; really don't know on the Republican side).

Anyway, with that legal disclaimer in place, the issue is means-testing Medicare patients. It would, at first glance, seem to be a "Lefty" position, but it was actually pushed by Republicans. The idea is rich retirees who can afford their own health care don't get Medicare, or have to pay more for it. Really, this came from the Republicans! Anyway, the Dem position on it is suspicion that it's a "camel nose under the tent" or a "slippery slope" (pick your metaphor) which will eventually lead to politicians thinking about (and treating) Medicare like welfare. And welfare money is the easiest for politicians to cut (few poor people usually vote), so it's setting ourselves up for a future disaster of epic proportions.

But I actually agree with the GOP position more -- if Medicare has to be reined in (due to the Baby Boomer bulge in the projections), then making wealthy Baby Boomers pay more seems like one of the least-objectionable ways to get there. I fully admit I could be wrong, but there you go. I even wrote an article about it, I think, a while back.

But the problem is the Republican position on almost every issue under the sun is not just bad but deeply WRONG for one reason or another. Neither I (nor any Lefty conspiracy) forced the GOP to take these positions.

I tossed down the gauntlet to you, and you couldn't come up with one, either. I'll do so again, directly: if you think I (or "the Left") is so pigheadedly unreasonable about the Republican agenda, and we just say "no" to it all in knee-jerk fashion, then NAME ME ONE Republican position that you even suspect I might support. It is very tough to do. Because almost all of them (and that's being polite) either make no sense at all under a reality-based lens, or are just downright mean-spirited in nature. Even dropping all the whoring for Wall Street portions of the GOP agenda (in fairness, because the Dems certainly have this problem too), pretty much everything else they've got is laughably wrong.

So, to repeat: if that last paragraph is not true, then what issue should I (or "the Left") give a sober and reasoned second look at?

Just one... that's all I ask. I bet you can't do it.

And that right there is the problem with the GOP agenda. It is out-of-touch and growing ever-more extreme. They just have no centrist positions left, after having purged all the moderates from their party.

-CW

Actually, it's ya'all that are the ones being manipulated..

Those free of ideological slavery simply cannot be manipulated..

It's one of the perks of being a registered NPA.. :D

Michale

What would happen if Obama hated Obama? Would your head explode trying to figure out what to do?

:)

-David

It's a shame this type of work ethic is all but dead in the "Gimme Gimme Gimme" country that has been created the last 4 years....

Michale

"In the dictionary under 'Redundant' it says, "See Redundant"..."
-Robin Williams, LIVE AT THE MET

:D

Michale

Of course I am... I never claimed otherwise..

But MY bias extends to ALL politicians, of which Obama is one, in spades... (not racist, despite how it may sound)...

Ya'all's bias only extends to the REPUBLICAN politicians only.

We're all bigots, as CW so deftly pointed out..

However, my bigotry is a LOT less selective, hence less hypocritical, than ya'alls bigotry...

Michale

As gas prices are directly connected to economic conditions, you have just proven that things are better.

Not really...

The Left likes to use stats like that so I am simply playing the game by the Rules established by the Left..

Gas prices were under 2 bucks when Obama took over..

Gas prices have almost doubled under Obama..

And yet, the Left can claim (with a straight face, no less) that things are "better"...

Things are "better".... For the Obamas...

That's about it...

Michale

And what were gas prices just 7 months earlier? Why did prices go down? Pretty disingenuous not to mention that...

I could not POSSIBLY agree more...

Michale....

I totally agree with this. I believe in personal liberty where it is not likely to harm others. So 2 consenting adults people want to be gay, straight, polygamist etc and it is doing no harm to others then go ahead...

Unfortunately both parties (and one party more so than the other) are dominated by a religious sector that extremely limits personal liberties based on their religious prejudices.

That's what I get for writing a post before my morning coffee...

Apparently, the same goes for me with my Diet Coke..

Because I understood you! :D

Michale

On the other hand this is only because the Tea-Party sponsored UIGEA was shoved down the throats of the American people under the table by Bush.

But I guess reversing the horrific laws they've passed is something 'good' Republicans are doing!

And for entertainment, Nevada - realising that New Jersey was about to pass the bill to legalise online gambling - rushed their own version through just days before. The Democrat Assembly majority leader then made the following jab:

"As to our competitor, New Jersey, they should be accustomed to following Nevada"

Ouch!

I wasn't talking about the nurture/nature argument. You are correct. I am firmly on the SCIENCE side of things and not the Democrats side of things..

But I do agree that those who choose to be part of the gay lifestyle should not be penalized for their choice...

Michale

That's what I get for writing a post before my morning coffee...

You don't believe on Democrats with gay marriage (unless you've changed your position on this?). I distinctly remember you arguing that you believe people are not born gay but it is a 'lifestyle choice' and that you didn't think they should be allowed to marry because of this lifestyle choice they made.

Glad to see you've 'evolved' on this though...

It happened. And it wasn't.

Further, we're not talking about "REPUBLICAN outrage"...

We're talking about Leftist MSM Outrage...

I bet if I were to research those stories, I would find dozens of stories on those incidents and how it was all Bush's fault....

Want me to?? :D

Michale

I don't see an ambassador killed in any of those..

Not even any AMERICANS killed in any of those.

You are comparing apples and Eskimos..

The "leftist MSM" ... that's a good one :). Owned by some of the largest, most risk averse corporations in America like Disney, Gannett, and Comcast.

Disney gay pride

Comcast owns MSNBC, the CONFIRMED propaganda outlet of the Obama Administration and the Democratic Party..

Are you SURE you want to go with those examples of "evil" corporations??

SERIOUSLY!!??? :D

Michale

Lol Michale Bush holds the record for high gas prices.

Yes, in Michtyland, I am sure he does. Just like Bush is to blame for EVERY bad thing and Democrats get the credit for every GOOD thing..

In Michtyland...

But here in the REAL world, when Bush left office, gas was under 2 bucks a gallon.. Under Obama it's hovering around 4 bucks a gallon. 5 bucks a gallon if you happen to be unlucky enough to live in the Socialist Republic Of California...

But it's interesting. You are on record as saying that the POTUS is not responsible for high gas prices..

I guess that only applies to POTUSes (POTUSii?? POTUSium???) that that the all powerful '-D' after their name...

It must be really enjoyable to have so much ideological faith completely unsupported by reality and the facts..

It's inspiring, in a way...

:D

Michale

http://ct.politicomments.com/ol/pc/sw/i57/2/11/6/pc_edab09a9087c964f50d749db1fd46bb9.jpg

It happened. And it wasn't.

The "leftist MSM" ... that's a good one :). Owned by some of the largest, most risk averse corporations in America like Disney, Gannett, and Comcast.

Sure ...

-David

By comparison, MSM stories about domestic surveillance during the Obama years are NON-EXISTENT...

No matter how you slice it, no matter what parameter you use, no matter what yardstick you measure with, no matter what, the ONLY conclusion that fits ALL the facts is that the vast majority of the MSM has a Leftist Bias...

Michale

Are you kidding!?

The Leftist MSM mentions that DAILY..

It's all Bush's fault. The Leftist MSM/Democrats/Obama (all the same entity) said so.. Over and over and over and over again ad nasuem...

- The failure of austerity in Europe

Once again, in the MSM daily...

- The slap on the wrist for HSBC

Cite??

- Koch brothers telling their employees who to vote for

The Leftist MSM hasn't resorted to outright Leftist propaganda... YET...

- Stories about the non-existence of voter fraud

Actually, there has been stories of actual voter fraud.

It's just not in the Leftist MSM..

- Stories publishing climate change research

That's because the Human Caused Global Warming (Yet The Planet Is Cooling) has been debunked as the con job that it is..

By REAL science, not by agenda-driven psuedo science..

Like I said above, the Leftist MSM is not resorting to outright propaganda..

That will likely change as we approach the 2014 Mid Terms and Obama/Democrats poll numbers plummet...

But for now, the Leftist MSM is simply resorting to killing stories that put Obama/Democrats in a bad light and touting the stories that make Obama/Democrats look good...

Once again, your own points prove the Leftist MSM conclusion..

Michale

Menendez - This story is everywhere.

Cite??

Benghazi - There is no story. Except for Republican accusations.

An American ambassador is killed (first time in a half a century) and 3 other Americans are killed on the anniversary of 9/11 on a ruthless attack on our embassy and it's NO STORY???

But, inadvertently I am sure, you prove my point for me.

If it had been a GOP POTUS, it would have been a MAJOR story.. It would have been screamed from the rooftops of EVERY MSM outlet..

You know it. I know it... The comparison of the coverage for Abu Ghraib proves it..

Salazar - This is one where I might almost agree with you. But for different reasons. Salazar likely gets a bit of a break from women because Democrats are not trying to pass crazy anti-abortion laws. Therefore his comments don't seem as controversial.

Exactly. You prove my point again. Because Salazar is a Democrat and the MSM supports the Democrat Agenda, he gets a pass..

Hell, no one here even KNEW about Salazar...

But EVERYONE has read about rape comments from GOP'ers...

WHY is that??

Because the MSM is in bed with Democrats...

SCOTUS ruling - Which one?

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_SUPREME_COURT_SURVEILLANCE?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2013-02-26-10-10-24

The fact that you don't even KNOW about this, once again, proves my point.

If we had a GOP POTUS and the SCOTUS ruled this way, ya'all would have been bat-crazy hysterical..

Need more evidence??

Compare the MSM coverage of the Yoo Memos to the DOJ WhitePaper....

While it's true that the DOJ WhitePaper did get some exposure, it's also true that the amount of stories about it is NOTHING compared to the amount of stories on the Yoo Memos..

NOTHING explains that except that the MSM is Left Bias towards Obama/Democrats/The Left..

There is simply too much evidence to support that conclusion..

Your explanations/justifications and ignorance of those stories and non-stories simply supports that conclusion..

Michale

My big change ...

Military ... both parties are whores.

Michale, I can equally list hundreds of stories I consider "liberal" which are back paged or ignored by the media.

Here's a quick few ...

- Causes of the economic collapse (the real causes, not Jimmy Carter)
- The failure of austerity in Europe
- The slap on the wrist for HSBC
- Koch brothers telling their employees who to vote for
- Stories about the non-existence of voter fraud
- Stories publishing climate change research

Most of these are not in the media because these stories tend to offend either a) big money advertisers or b) some monied interest who has the potential to sue (having a case makes no difference as the point of the suits is the cost).

As for yours ...

Menendez - This story is everywhere.

Benghazi - There is no story. Except for Republican accusations.

Salazar - This is one where I might almost agree with you. But for different reasons. Salazar likely gets a bit of a break from women because Democrats are not trying to pass crazy anti-abortion laws. Therefore his comments don't seem as controversial.

SCOTUS ruling - Which one?

So far I haven't seen a story you've listed which doesn't fit the theory.

And there's many liberal stories which don't fit your "liberal media" theory.

How do you explain?

-David

People should be allowed to marry, regardless of their sex...

If an ADULT woman wants an abortion, she should be able to have one. PERIOD.

Gay people should have ALL the rights (and responsibilities) that straight people have...

If two (or three or 10) consenting adults want to gang bang in the privacy of their own home (this one is actually very personal for us) they should be allowed to...

"Any other ball-busters????"
-Adam Sandler, BILLY MADISON

:D

Michale

But the one that had the higher shock value (Afghani Kill Teams) was the one that received the MUCH LOWER exposure from the MSM...

In other words, the one that made Obama look bad had the higher shock value..

And THAT was the story that was killed..

Now, WHY was it killed???

Further, would it have been killed if it had been a GOP POTUS???

Of course not...

So, the ONLY logical conclusion, the ONLY conclusion that fits ALL the facts is that the MSM is in the bag for Obama/Democrats/The Left...

Likely in that order..

I know, I know.. You still don't agree..

Then explain why all the stories I mentioned above, ALL the stories that put Democrats in a bad light, are NOT reported on??

Benghazi

Menendez

Salazar

SCOTUS ruling

and on and on and on..

Corporate interests MIGHT explain one. Two would be a stretch..

But dozens and dozens and dozens of stories??? HUNDREDS of stories??

Hundreds of stories with TWO things in common..

They put Obama/Democrats/The Left in a bad light...

And they were killed and/or only reported on by obscure and/or conservative outlets...

Ya'all say you are all about science.

What are the statistical probabilities that ALL THOSE stories would be killed???

Science doesn't explain it..

Corporate interests doesn't explain it..

But political ideological loyalty explains it all...

If it barks like a duck and walks like a duck...

Guess what??

It's likely a duck...

Michale

One has a much much higher spectacle and shock value.

You're exactly right!

One *DID* have a higher spectacle and shock value than they other..

But the one that had the higher shock value (Afghani Kill Teams) was the one that received the MUCH LOWER exposure from the MSM...

CW,

I tried to think of an issue where I agreed with Republicans and thought "all Democrats" were wrong, but the only thing I could come up with was "a la carte" cable TV, which the Dems have blocked for a long time.

That's it.

At least you can come up with something. But you have always been the leader in fairness in this issue..

No one else can come up with ANYTHING..

In spite of me BEGGING for an example for YEARS, not ONE single die-hard Obama supporter can come up with a SINGLE example...

Budget -- budgets have been far better under Dem control than GOP control.

How long has it been since the Dems passed a budget?? :D

Wall Street -- both parties are whores. Period.

Once again, you lead the pack.. No one else blames the Dems for anything to do with Wall Street.. It's always the Republicans fault..

Science -- Dems right, GOP batshit insane.

Awwwwww, you were doing so well...

Dems only agree with "science" when it supports their ideological agenda...

Proof??

Any science that disagrees with the Left's ideological agenda isn't really science...

Human Caused Global Warming (Yet The Planet Is Cooling) is, of course, the best example of this..

Nurture v Nature vis a vis gay is another example..

So, the Left isn't about science at all. Science is simply a tool that they use/discard at will to further the ideological agenda...

an think of no issue -- not one -- where the Republican Party is the voice of reason and the Dems are just flat-out wrong.

And therein lies the crux of my argument..

I would be willing to wager that you (and likely Joshua) would concede that there MAY be an issue that this is the case... That there IS an issue that the Republicans have it right and the Democrats have it wrong..

While you cannot think of an example, I honestly believe that you would, at the VERY least, concede the possibility...

Because, the alternative is for you (like all the rank and file Weigantians) state unequivocally that Democrats are ALWAYS right and Republicans are ALWAYS wrong...

And I know you well enough to know that you would NEVER take such a position..

Because (and I think you would agree) anyone who DOES take that position would be a politically ideological fanatic..

I guess what it all boils down to is that rank and file Weigantians insist up and down that there is NO WAY that Republicans can be correct on ANY issue..

And that simply defies reason...

Michty,

Good post CW, I agree with you on almost everything. I'd say even more of mine would be 'both parties wrong'. I think most of Michale's would be almost 90% Republican and I can't think of 1 where he agrees with Dem's (maybe abortion but to me as a non-American abortion hasn't been an issue since before I was born)

Actually, remember that quiz we took a while back??

I was 46% in Obama's corner..

So, nice try... But no cigar... :D

Michale

Global Warming -- Dems ok if they stopped selling out, GOP stuck in the 1800s.

Abortion -- Dems right, GOP stuck in the 1920s.

Minimum wage -- Dems ok but too weak, GOP stuck in the 1890s.

Immigration reform -- Dems ok, GOP stuck in the 1950s.

Budget -- Dems ok but too weak. GOP borrow and spend/LOL military spending - stuck in the 1940s.

Taxes -- Dems ok but too weak, GOP stuck in the 1980s.

Military -- both parties completely wrong. GOP stuck in the Cold War.

Protecting the Bill of Rights -- both parties wrong. GOP stuck in the 1700s.

Guns -- both parties wrong, GOP stuck in the 1800s.

Education -- both parties bad, GOP why educate when we can militarise? Stuck in the 1940s.

Social Security -- Dems ok, GOP stuck in the 1910s.

Infrastructure -- Dems ok but weak, GOP stuck in the 1990s.

Gay rights -- Dems right, GOP stuck in the 1980s.

Drugs -- both parties wrong. GOP stuck in the 1800s.

Wall Street -- both horrendously wrong run by money. GOP stuck in the Romneys.

Science -- Dems right, GOP stuck in 10,000 BC (which they don't believe exists).

Summary -- Dems ok, GOP LOLOLOLOLOLOL.

I tried to think of an issue where I agreed with Republicans and thought "all Democrats" were wrong, but the only thing I could come up with was "a la carte" cable TV, which the Dems have blocked for a long time.

That's it.

Now, I do agree with certain Republicans on certain issues -- I give George W. Bush a lot of credit for pushing immigration reform, for instance. But what happened? It was killed by his own Republican Party. So while I was generally in Bush's corner on that, the GOP was wrong and Bush was right -- imagine if Bush had won on the issue, how many more Latinos might have considered voting for Romney, just for a minute.

So, on party doctrine, here's my list:

Abortion -- Dems right, GOP wrong. GOP = no abortion for rape victims (in their party platform in plain English).

Minimum wage -- Dems right, GOP wrong.

Immigration reform -- Dems right, GOP wrong (even the GOP is realizing this one, but they haven't really changed yet).

Budget -- budgets have been far better under Dem control than GOP control. When the numbers are in this year -- sequester or no sequester -- Obama will have shrunk the deficit by more dollars than any other president, I bet. The budget handed to him was 1.3T in deficit, and this year it'll likely be 900B -- a drop of 400B or around 1/3rd. Also, Clinton/surplus.

Taxes -- Dems right, GOP wrong.

Military -- both parties probably wrong, for various reasons.

Protecting the Bill of Rights -- both parties wrong, to various degrees.

Guns -- both parties terrified of NRA.

Education -- Dems right, GOP wrong.

Social Security -- Dems right, GOP wrong.

Infrastructure -- both parties used to be right, now Dems right, GOP wrong.

Gay rights -- Dems right, GOP in dustbin of history.

Drugs -- both parties absolutely insane.

Wall Street -- both parties are whores. Period.

Science -- Dems right, GOP batshit insane.

There are probably lots of other issues that I could add to the list. But I saved one for last, to show you how it works on the left. Generally, hardcore Lefties will indeed take on a wing of their party when deserved. Or Dem individuals. But Lefties don't attack Democrats as a group, because there are usually some Dems who agree with them and are working for good.

You're guilty of the same thing when you brush off some idiot Republican with "he's just one guy, that's not the whole Republican Party." Both sides see the other party as a monolith of thought, and split hairs on their side of the aisle. The problem is, as you've pointed out, the GOP are generally better at getting their people in line (not so much, with the Tea Party these days, but still...). So they're much more willing to close ranks when attacked.

But back to my final issue. Health care. Dems were scathing towards the "Blue Dog Democrats" like Lieberman and others who stomped all over excellent ideas like a public option or Medicare buy-in for younger people. That was a full-on intraparty fight. Lefties did not hold back one iota in blasting the Blue Dogs.

Now, I realize that list I gave is subjective. Your list is likely different. There are plenty of things on the list where I disagree with the Dem Party position, but in these cases the GOP position is even worse.

I can think of no issue -- not one -- where the Republican Party is the voice of reason and the Dems are just flat-out wrong. Not one. If you'd like to suggest one to me, feel free, but it's a tough sell. Republicans are, more and more (backed up by recent polling) being seen as extreme and out-of-touch by not just 6 in 10 Americans, but by a healthy chunk of REPUBLICANS. This is because they are sticking to a rigid ideology that brooks no nuance, that is fast being overtaken by history.

So, please, name me ONE issue where you think there's even a prayer of me agreeing that not just the Dems are wrong, but the Republican Party is right and has an answer to a problem that Dems are against. Other than a la carte cable, of course.

I can name at least three where you disagree with the GOP position and think the Dems are right, I bet. So you should be able to come up with one for me.

-CW

Look around June 2008 if you don't believe me. The only reason they fell (plummeted would be a more accurate word) is because of the financial crisis.

But hey that's an economics/markets issue and involves admitting there was a financial crisis right before Obama came to office - both of which are issues that you are not prepared to admit happened nor do you understand...

It's actually quite easily explained.

One has a much much higher spectacle and shock value.

The other is shocking but not in the same sensationalist way (we've seen seen much of this before) and comes at a time of war fatigue where I think most people just want us to get out of Afghanistan so we can move past it.

Cue next rant ...

-David

So, fairly or not, Obama get's the blame as well...

"So say we all"
-BATTLESTAR GALACTICA

:D

Michale

And since Michty is lurking, let me kill his argument before he even makes it.

The Left held Bush responsible for high gas prices, fairly or not..

So, fairly or not, Obama get's the blame as well...

Michale

There are absolutely NO FACTS to support such a claim...

Just let me throw a dart and hit something..

Gas prices were under $2 a gallon under Bush.. Under Obama, they hover around DOUBLE that??

Oh let's throw another dart..

Utility prices have skyrocketed under Obama...

One more dart..

Unemployment! BULLSEYE!!!!

Your definition of "better" is a little skewed, my friend...

"But!! But!!! You're cherry picking facts!!"

Yes I am.. But THESE facts are what matter to the 99%...

It's THESE facts that determine whether things are "better" or "worse"..

And, these facts CLEARLY show that things are worse...

MUCH worse...

Bashi,

But how does that you make you any different than to which you complain?

I guess you missed the "Much to my chagrin" part, eh??

I *thought* I was better than that.. I *thought* I could support my President, even if I didn't agree with what he does..

I thought wrong...

You have to admit the frequency and length of that raging is the equivalent to a dozen :D

I'll take that as a compliment.. :D

"My name is Legion for we are many" :D

But if you jump in your handy-dandy trusty dusty time machine and go back to Weigantia circa-Bush Years, you would find that there were MANY "Michales" ranting about Bush on a daily basis with numbers that would be my envy any day of the week and twice on Sunday..

So, what is my media bias?

You are correct, media bias is a tricky thing to define..

While you can find a point here or an article there where the MSM will skewer the Left (sometimes) Democrats (every once in a while) or Obama (hardly ever), if one looks at the BIG picture, one get's the feel for their bias..

For example, MSNBC is universally accepted as being the propaganda arm of the Obama Administration and the Democrats. It has been stated so in this very commentary..

Yet, an MSNBC reporter posted an article about all the groans that were heard when Michelle Obama put her appearance in at the Oscars...

So it IS possible to find exceptions to the rule...

But the exceptions do not the rule invalidate...

One issue (which I have mentioned before) is key to demonstrate the Leftist Bias of the MSM..

The comparison of the coverage of Abu Ghraib (Bush) and Afghani Kill Teams (Obama)...

That right there epitomizes the Leftist Bias of the MSM...

Because NOTHING, absolutely NOTHING explains that away BUT a Leftist/Democrat/Obama bias of the Mainstream Media...

If one examines the totality of the coverage of the last election and compares the number of negative stories of Romney vs the number of negative stories about Obama, the picture becomes even MORE clear..

To deny there is a Left/Democrat/Obama Bias in the vast majority of the MSM is simply to deny reality...

The evidence is overwhelmingly conclusive..

Michale

But how does that you make you any different than to which you complain?

But ya'all only have to endure the raging from ONE person..

You have to admit the frequency and length of that raging is the equivalent to a dozen :D

The problem with labeling the MSM "liberal" or "corporate" or any specific bias label is it ignores the complexities of how bias shows up. Is the bias with the hard news, and to what degree? Opinion pages? Editorial (what stories get picked)? How strong is the bias. But most importantly, what is the bias? There are many more forms of bias than left or right. There are as mentioned, corporate but also capitalist which is slightly different. I would label the The Economist and NPR's Marketplace as capitalist. There is also left and right from different countries, which might vary quite a bit from the US's definition as well as not really caring about either side in the US. There are religious bias and bias from specific groups that are much more biased about their own ideology or interest than any left/right bias.

The strength of the bias is also important. Democracy Now is night and day different in the strength of liberal bias from NPR. To the point that the bias label becomes meaningless.

Fox news is actually not too bad when it comes to hard news. Neither is most of "MSM" whatever that term actually covers. I suspect we all have a slightly different grouping for "MSM". It's when you get to the opinion pages/arguing heads that bias really shows. But if you are looking for an opinion, don't be too surprised when you actually get one...

My news sources mainly come from a news reader on my idevices. I find the sources I follow for the full story are a smattering of the usual suspects, including foxnews. I find myself reading more in depth with The Atlantic and Christian Science Monitor. I avoid all the 24 hour news channels like the plague but I will watch the local news and sometime the national half hour. I do seek out the BBC and DW as I like the difference of their perspective and areas of coverage. I listen to lots of NPR when driving and especially like MarketPlace.

So, what is my media bias?

Except under Obama things are better while Bush squandered a surplus on two worthless wars. And there was that little economic collapse thing too.

-David

But ya'all only have to endure the raging from ONE person..

I had to endure the raging from DOZENS...

All things being equal, ya'all are getting the better part of the deal.. :D

Michale

As g'luck to you and your anti-Republican raging and conspiracy theories.. :D

I W B W

:D

Michale

I've got some Congress folk to write.

-David

Corporate Interests don't explain the bias...

Unless it's your argument that Corporate Interests = Obama Interests...

I could buy that argument .. :D

Michale

And there is ONE Party that wants taxes...

Even though that Party GOT Taxes, AND ONLY TAXES, a couple months ago..

And guess what.

THAT PARTY ALREADY SPENT THAT MONEY!!!

This party insists that cuts are non-negotiable despite the fact that they will halt any economic recovery.

And the other Party insists that taxes are non-negotiable despite the fact that they will halt any economic recovery...

blaaa blaaa blaaa blaaa

The Democrats way does NOT WORK....

Period....

Where is this story in your "liberal media"?

EVERYWHERE!!

Every MSM outlet has the same story..

It's all the republicans fault. Obama and the Democrats are the saviors of the universe and it's the mean and nasty Republicans who are standing in the way of the perfect utopia...

And blaaa blaaa blaaa blaaaa, so on and so on and so an ad nasuem...

That is ALL we are seeing in the MSM...

Like I said.. Explain the lack of coverage for the afghani kill teams. Explain the lack of coverage for the SCOTUS decision to bar challenges to government surveillance. Explain the lack of coverage of Menendez and his hookers.. Explain the lack of coverage of Salazar and his rape comments..

Explain the lack of coverage from the MSM over all those and much much more and THEN you might have an argument..

But you CAN'T explain those, so you don't...

Michale

There is one party that wants cuts. One.

This party insists that cuts are non-negotiable despite the fact that they will halt any economic recovery.

There is one party that wants to destroy government. Through any method possible.

Where is this story in your "liberal media"?

Nowhere. The MSM plays what both sides say. Yeah, they're covering. But they're also giving equal time to people like Eric Cantor and John Boehner. And there's plenty of play for the conservative stories which look like the following: "the sequester isn't a big deal, it's only 2.5%" and the "Obama needs to act" story.

Please.

-David

I know that's a bitter pill to swallow..

Ya'all want to believe that the MSM coverage is fair and that the support Obama/Democrats/The Left gets from the media is because of the merits of the position..

And, if you cherry pick a fact here and a fact there you can "make" your case and feed the delusion...

But the simple fact is, there is only ONE conclusion that fits ALL the facts...

And that conclusion is that the majority of the MSM is in the bag for Obama/Democrats/The Left...

Michale

It *IS* a story.. And the Leftist MSM is running Obama's propaganda that it's all the fault of the Republicans..

When people actually know and understand the political situation, they tend to vote liberal.

Do you comprehend how utterly and completely ideological biased that statement is!!!???

Basically what you are saying is that smart people vote Democrat and stupid people vote Republican..

Nope.. No bias there whatsoever!! :D

Lemme ask ya something??

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_SUPREME_COURT_SURVEILLANCE?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2013-02-26-10-10-24

If the MSM doesn't have a Leftist bent, where is all the hysterical fear-mongering from the MSM over that??

If we had had a GOP POTUS and this story came out, it would be howled from the rooftops..

But because the MSM is in the bag for Obama and the Dems???

{{{{{chhhiirrrrrrpppppp}}}} {ccchhhhiiiiiirrrrrrpppppp}}

Cricket city...

Explain that, if there is no Left bias amongst the MSM..

You can't.. Just as you can't explain the lack of coverage over the Afghani Kill Teams, the Menedez/Prostitution scandal, the Salazar rape comments and a host of other stories that make Obama look bad that are killed...

The *ONLY* conclusion that supports *ALL* the facts is that the majority of the MSM has a Obama/Democrat/Left bias...

Michale

Interesting stat I spotted today that in the Italian election - which is killing the markets just now - turnout is expected to be around 75% which is considered 'low'.

Low! Certainly puts other countries to shame. If the USA, for example, had turnout of 75% at every election Republicans would be dead as a party...

Bull.

If there were a "liberal media" this whole sequester BS wouldn't even be an issue since everyone would know which party is pushing for cuts.

When people actually know and understand the political situation, they tend to vote liberal.

Which is why, of course, confusing people is such a key part of the conservative strategy.

-David

Despite ALL the evidence to the contrary..

There is so much evidence that supports the Left Wing bias MSM theory that you simply can't address..

But at least you concede the MSNBC Left Wing bias..

That's a start..

Baby steps. It's all about baby steps.. :D

Michale

For the record, Michale, I haven't seen anyone here claim what you're saying they did.

The argument I've seen made here (by myself and others) is that the predominant bias in the media is corporate. Not right. Not left.

In certain obvious cases outlets have decided to support one side or the other (ala Fox or ClearChannel or MSNBC) but for the most part, the media is more cowardly corporate entertainment than anything else.

Just a slight (but important) correction.

-David

http://www.foxnews.com/science/2013/02/25/vulcan-and-cerberus-win-pluto-moon-naming-poll/?intcmp=features

Vulcan has been discovered!! :D

:D

Michale

Awesome to hear you say that, michty..

The conventional wisdom around here is that there is *NO* Left Wing media bias...

Michale

How many times a day does the Left slam Republican politicians that go to Fox News..

Strange how that same Left has no problem with propaganda coming FROM the Left...

Michale

There is... So much that I wouldn't even know where to start..

But, again.. This isn't about me..

If you can't criticize the Democratic Party and credit the Republican Party, for christ's sake, just say so!

Michale

Jeezus, ya think I was asking ya'all to commit treason!

Michale

Well, you say the right is just as bad as the left enough times it does take up a lot of space... Why never anything specific or of substance?

Then you are missing about 30% of my postings...

Your lack of attention is not my fault.. :D

What I don't see are links to liberal blogs (or ever moderate ones) with opinion pieces criticizing the right.

And THAT is your problem.. You don't see it..

They are there as ANYONE here can attest to...

But YOU don't see it because it doesn't fit your agenda.. :D

You are highly ideologically fanatical. It just happens to be anti-left rather than right or left.

This.. coming from the guy who cannot criticize the Democratic Party for ANYTHING. :D

But once again, you want to make it all about me...

We're discussing YA'ALLs inability to criticize the Democratic Party in their policies on governing this country..

Sure, ya'all bitch and moan that the Dems don't stick it to the GOP enough, but that's hardly criticsm of the Dem Party or acceptance of the GOP...

My anti-politician ideology is well-established. I have nothing to prove..

Michale

First, you have to pay for your entertainment..

You will have to tell me where Democrats are wrong and Republicans are right...

I wish I could say that THAT would be entertaining, but the only description I can come up with is.... "non-existent"...

Michale

Is that REALLY too much to ask???

Are you willing to do the same? I see post after post criticizing Obama and the left followed by post after post with links to some conservative opinion piece. What I don't see is walls of text filled posts criticizing the right or specific Republican leaders. What I don't see are links to liberal blogs (or ever moderate ones) with opinion pieces criticizing the right.

You are highly ideologically fanatical. It just happens to be anti-left rather than right or left.

You've clearly missed the posts when Michale states what the 'facts' are. I had to complain to the fact police many times and I think he is heeding their warnings.

Michale,
How about you give us some examples of where you are believe the Republicans are 'right' and we will tell you whether or not we agree with you? That should be entertaining...

Yes, FILLED...

Compared to ya'all, "FILLED" is the entirely appropriate description..

But why do you insist on making this about me..

All I am asking is that ya'all employ some common sense and drop the ideological fanaticism every once in a while..

Is that REALLY too much to ask???

I guess so...

Michale

If I could meet with Obama quarterly and tell him how I feel..

Well, what do ya know!???

http://freebeacon.com/chuck-todd-on-ofa-fundraising-this-just-looks-bad/

If I had a half a million dollars, I COULD!!!

A shame I don't have that much money anymore, eh?? :D

Michale

Which 99 times out of 100 boils down to "the right is just as bad". Therefore if I say the left is just as bad I would be matching my criticism of the left exactly as much as you criticize the right. Or would I have to amend the end all my posts with it as a sort of signature for it to fly?

These pages are FILLED with comments from me as to how bad the Republican Party is..

FILLED?!?!? This is by far the grossest exaggeration ever posted to the comments section of this blog...

See it works both ways...

We're not talking about specific individuals..

We are talking about ideology...

Ya'all are simply INCAPABLE of criticizing the Democratic Party due to political ideological loyalty.

*I* don't have that problem because I HAVE no political ideological loyalty..

BOTH Party's are to blame for this country's mess...

Hell, even CW agrees with me.

Michale....

Well, you get the idea...

Michale

How can it be a one-way street when I am asking you to be as critical of the Democratic Party as I am of the Republican Party???

The ONLY reason you would have a problem with it is if you simply CAN'T be critical of the Democratic Party...

I think I will wait for some "as specific and as relentless against the Repub Party" from you first...</I.

Michale

Put up or shut up... :D

See it works both ways...

But hay.. I am the epitome of fairness..

Show me an issue where Weigantians have stated that the Republican Party has right and the Democratic Party has wrong..

Put up or shut up.. ;D

Michale

So it is a one way street. You get to be all "independent" by saying the right is as bad as the left while never really going beyond that with criticism of the right but I have to be "as specific and as relentless against the Dem Party". Seems I smell some seriously stinky hypocrisy in the air.

I think I will wait for some "as specific and as relentless against the Repub Party" from you first...

No.. Ya'all have criticized *A* Democrat..

But NONE of you have EVER indicated that the Democratic Party has it wrong and the Republican Party has it right.

NEVER.. Not ONE single time...

Nothing will change this opinion of his.

Of course there is..

FACTS will change my opinion.

But, as usual, ya'all never HAVE any facts on this issue....

And so it goes and so it goes.

Michale

It's a claim backed up by tons and tons of verifiable evidence..

But, hay.. I am fair.. Point to me some comments that slam the Democratic Party, AS A PARTY, for actions taken that have nothing to do with Republicans..

Can you find any?? Hell, can you find ONE!???

Remember, COMMENTS.. Not commentaries..

I haven't seen anyone else on this forum say it in anything coming close to the all encompassing way you wish to attribute to us...

And yet, all we ever see from the comments is praise for the Dem Party and attacks against the Republican Party...

No??

Prove me wrong, then...

If I say the left is as bad as the right does it completely alleviate your need for me to ever criticize Obama or the left? Or is this purely a one way street in your favor?

You would have to be as specific and as relentless against the Dem Party as you are against the GOP Party..

All I am asking for is a little common sense..

Ya'all would have me (and any lurkers) believe that the Democratic Party is ALWAYS right and the Republican Party is ALWAYS wrong..

No???

Again, prove me wrong..

Point to any policy, action or platform that the Republican Party has right and the Democratic Party has wrong...

I await with baited breath... :D

Michale

It's your claim that, in this issue (matter of fact, in ALL issues) Democrats are right and Republicans are wrong.

Actually, it's your claim that's is our claim that Democrats are right and Republicans are wrong.

I haven't seen anyone else on this forum say it in anything coming close to the all encompassing way you wish to attribute to us...

But it brings up a interesting question: If I say the left is as bad as the right does it completely alleviate your need for me to ever criticize Obama or the left? Or is this purely a one way street in your favor?

Democrats: Cutting spending when the economy is fragile probably isn't a good idea...

Republicans: CUTS! We want CUTS! I demand CUTS! Massive cuts. Get me some scissors right now. Bring me a list of spending things and a pair of giant inflatable scissors. Time to do some cutting! Gimme a C! Gimme a U! Gimme a T! What's that spell??

Economists: Uhm you do realise these cuts will cost about 700,000 jobs and probably 1% of GDP growth. They are pretty bad for the fraglie economic recovery. I mean look at Europe...

Republicans: Cuts? Us? No way! Obama! It was Obama. I don't remember saying anything about cuts. Those giant inflatable scissors in my office? Oh they're not mine I borrowed them from... uhm... Obama! It's Obama's cuts! The cheerleaders at my rally spelling cuts? Uhm Obama sent them there! He is sooo evil! DAMN YOU OBAMA you're ruining America!

Instead the politicians are so unaccountable and their jobs are so safe that they plan on sitting back and going 'meh I can probably use the propaganda machine to blame this one on Obama, my re-election isn't in much danger anyway' and let everyone else suffer.

If you blame anyone except these politicians you are an idiot. Unfortunately there are too many people like this in America that they will probably get away with it.

Amen, michty.

-David

Besides, the Left established quite well during the Bush years that ANYTHING that happens that is bad is ALL the President's fault..

Apparently, in the here and now, I guess that only applies to Presidents with a '-R' after their name.. :^/

Michale

Because it was his idea...

Duuuuhhhhhh :D

If you want to trace the origins then start with why the sequester was needed in the first place

Because Democrats wouldn't compromise on spending cuts..

I'd blame those people.

Of course.. You blame anyone but the Left...

Der's a shocker!!! :D

Michale

It's your claim that, in this issue (matter of fact, in ALL issues) Democrats are right and Republicans are wrong.

Ya'all claim this, despite ALL the evidence that supports the opposite conclusion..

That the Democrat's way is making things worse, not better.

Michale

If you want to trace the origins then start with why the sequester was needed in the first place (House Republicans wouldn't do anything). Then consider who voted for the people who wouldn't do anything and allow their politicians to get away with this by not holding them accountable for not doing anything.

I'd blame those people.

In other news, Ted Rail (as usual) nails it regarding the minimum wage: http://www.rall.com/rallblog/2013/02/25/slave-wages

So would excessive taxes and regulations..

Gutting the military would also not be a good idea..

The GOP has agreed to unprecedented taxes.. This is well-established..

Where are the tax cuts the Democrats promised??

Like EVERYTHING else Democrats promise, they are non-existent..

A compromise which destroys the economy is not a compromise.

Again, agreed..

Which is why, I believe, the GOP is done compromising..

Michale

-David

Spending cuts which would sink the economy.

This is a terrible idea.

The only solution Republicans seem willing to entertain are different spending cuts. In particular to social programs. And that's the problem. Spending cuts period are likely to squash the economy.

Just look at Europe.

-David

THEN you can claim that it's only the Republicans who are "uncompromising"...

Michale

Another one of Obama's grand ideas that ignore reality..

And yet, no one blames Obama for the moronic idea...

Michale

Just as Democrats have decided that the sequester is better than compromising with Republicans..

That, my friend, is some bullheaded uncompromising idiocy.

I completely and unequivocally agree...

Michale

The Republican party, however, has decided that the sequester is better than compromising with Democrats.

That, my friend, is some bullheaded uncompromising idiocy.

-David

Unfortunately, I think this might have to happen for people to wake up to the destructive tactics of the Democratic party: we would rather see the country burn than work with Republicans.

The sequestor was OBAMA's idea!!

And yet, somehow, it's all the Republicans' fault..

Michale

It's a horrible idea though: let's glut Mexico with assault rifles! Yay!

I W B W :D

Michale