Yea, we know..

Standard Lefty line..

It's all the Republicans fault.

Democrats are as pure as the driven snow..

{{{Yawn}}}

- Republicans in the House and how they deal with the upcoming sequestration debate
- Republicans in the House and how they deal with the debt ceiling 6 months down the line

The main faults in the recovery during the last 4 years came during these periods. For example, the debt ceiling debates of 2011 saw stock prices plummet, job numbers nose dive and the economy free-fall - this tends to be what happens when one party plays games with the economy for political gain.

You seem to think that, because Wall Street is doing well, our POTUS is doing well..

Fair enough..

But will you concede that, when Wall Street tanks and takes a dive, that Obama is responsible for THAT as well???

Somehow, I kind of doubt it??

It's like Gas Prices.. When we have a GOP POTUS and gas prices rise, it's all that President's fault..

When we have a DEM POTUS and the gas prices rise...???

Not so much....

Why not just come right and and say it..

Everything bad is because of Republicans..

Everything good is because of Democrats..

Michale

Bush had an 8 year stretch with no terrorist attacks on US Proper..

Not bad for a Warmongering War-Criminal Hitler (or whatever the Leftist name calling was) :)

Once again, I emphatically, unequivocally and indubitably) show that it goes both ways... :D

Michale

Yes, if you cherry pick a good thing here and there, you can make Obama look like the second coming..

But if you look at the overall picture, I could have 3 times the list that you could have.

Hell, even Michty has come around to my way of thinking that, on the economy, Obama has been incompetent..

If that's not a big hit for ya, NOTHING will be.. :D

I see yer still ignoring your Gas Prices gaffe.. :D

Michale

http://www.upi.com/Business_News/2013/01/28/Housing-market-poised-to-push-recovery/UPI-19071359420338/?spt=hs&or=bn

Not bad for a Socialist Muslim lefty king (or whatever the latest conservative name calling is) :)

-David

Do you have anything to counter? Or are you just into ridicule?? ;D

Michale

I just want to get you on record before I demonstrate my GOOGLE prowess... :D

I had forgotten how amusing Michale is,I must make an effort to keep track,the above comment put a smile on my face as much as the sunshine here in Red Neck Hillbilly California does.

"Deep recessions are supposed to be followed by strong recoveries, but, under Obama, the worst recession since the 1930s"

The article then proceeds to compare Obama to Bushes, Reagan and Clinton. NOTHING about the Great Depression.

And of course Obama has the slowest recovery (since the Great Depression) because he has the WORST RECESSION (since the Great Depression) lolol.

So what you're saying is completely breaking news: The 2nd worst recession of all time has had the 2nd slowest recovery of all time; it was beat by the 1st worst recession of all time which, shockingly, had the 1st worst recovery of all time.

In other news, the Sky continues to be blue and 2 + 2 continue to be 4. Unless you are a Republican then the Sky has been ruined by Obama and Obama changed 2 to make it 'too liberal' so that 2 + 2 now equals 5.

.... YET

Obama and the Democrats ain't thru screwing over the country..

Right well at least you admitted this fact. As the UK is about to enter our THIRD recession you aren't even on number 2. And YOU think YOUR GUY did a bad job????? LOLOLOL.

I provide evidence of my facts and conclusions..

http://www.forbes.com/sites/louiswoodhill/2012/08/01/obama-wins-the-gold-for-worst-economic-recovery-ever/

Where's your evidence for your claims???

{{chhhiiirrrrrpppppp}} {{ccchhhirrrrrpppppppp}}

Cricket city....

The US is one of the minority of countries to go through the full whack of the Great Depression of 2008-09 and NOT have a double dip recession.

.... YET

Obama and the Democrats ain't thru screwing over the country..

Michale

Lololol amazing. It never ceases to amaze me how wrong you can be so many times.

The only recession worse than the Great Recession of 2008-2009 was the Great Depression. That took 10 years to recover from. And the recovery only really happened because the world went to war, who knows how much longer it would've taken otherwise...

If you want to compare how well Obama has done for the US recovery, just look around the world. The recovery is still underway EVERYWHERE. But in places like the UK - where Conservatives in charge decided for tax cuts + austerity (SHOCK HORROR) - we are about to enter a TRIPLE-DIP recession. Wait till you have your 2nd recession in the US before you go moaning - we are just about to hit number 3.

The US is one of the minority of countries to go through the full whack of the Great Depression of 2008-09 and NOT have a double dip recession.

Whatever you have to tell yourself to make it thru the day is all right by me.. :D

I think the idea that this country has become a Center Left country has been laid to rest by recent events...

But, like I said, whatever you have to think to make it thru the day..... :D

Michale

David, David, David...

Average gas was $1.84 p/g the day Obama took office..

American prestige??

We were respected under Bush. Feared, yes. But respected.

Now the US is a laughing stock thanks to Obama's Lead From Behind AKA The Coward Of The County "strategy"...

And I'm sorry to say it, but I have no idea what the Republican party stands for any more other than "vote against Obama"

Yea, I had the same feeling about the Democrats during the Bush years.

All they were was Anti-Bush..

Even when they KNEW that many of Bush's policies was the right way to go..

Michale

I mean, I guess this makes for good angry AM radio rants, but it sure doesn't seem like it's doing any good.

And people are leaving the party faster than Mitt Romney's facebook page :)

-David

Howz American prestige?

All better than 4 years ago with the exception of unemployment.

And what created unemployment? The economic crisis.

Due to what policies did the economic crisis happen? Trickle down theory and deregulation.

I know this drives you nuts Michale because I know you want conservatives back in power to start another war, but don't you think we're better off without one?

-David

Let's give credit where credit is due..

Obama's a great fly guy... :D

Michale

So, tell me...

Exactly WHAT should we give Obama credit for??

Michale

Deep recessions are supposed to be followed by strong recoveries, but, under Obama, the worst recession since the 1930s has been followed by the slowest economic recovery in the history of the republic. In a very real sense, there has been no recovery at all—things are still getting worse.

Michale

Slowest.... Recovery.... EVER.....

Deep recessions are supposed to be followed by strong recoveries, but, under Obama, the worst recession since the 1930s has been followed by the slowest economic recovery in the history of the republic. In a very real sense, there has been no recovery at all—things are still getting worse.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/louiswoodhill/2012/08/01/obama-wins-the-gold-for-worst-economic-recovery-ever/

This snail-paced recovery is in SPITE of Obama's actions..

Not because of...

Michale....

Of course, that's a typo... :D

Michale

Thanx to President Bush and the policies put into place by him and the Democrats..

Policies, I might add, that Democrats fought tooth and nail against, SOLELY to suit a political agenda that hampered the nation's security..

Do you REALLY want to play the Bin Laden card??? :D

Michale

Howz gas prices??

Howz unemployment??

Howz American prestige??

'Nuff said..

Michale

Let's see ...

- No Osama bin Laden
- War in Iraq wound down
- Economy recovering
- Housing market back
- Corporate profits and Wall Street hitting new records

Not sure what you're looking at, but I think we're much better off than 4 years ago.

-David

From that article you posted ...

"And if we fail to use our military against state sponsors of terrorism today, imagine the challenge we will face five years from now when Iraq and Iran possess nuclear weapons and are ready to disseminate them to their terrorist minions."

This sounds like your beliefs, Michale.

Are you sure about Ayn Rand and the "left"?

If so, I'm with Bashi, welcome to the Left.

Or, more accurately, Wall Street is successful in SPITE of the actions of Democrats and the Obama Administration.

It's interesting how you're able to give someone like George W. all the credit when it comes to 7 years of non-terrorism (while you ignore how 9/11 happened during his term) and then turn around and give zero credit to President Obama for the economic recovery. Which is clearly happening during his term.

In reality, I'd give Bush credit for starting the stimulus (though I wish he would have broken up the banks and done more in terms of long term regulation) and Obama credit for going a couple steps further though again I think he could have done even more.

In terms of terrorism, I think both deserve some credit though I would caution against how much credit to both since the timing of terrorist attacks is largely random and unpredictable. This is why I don't blame George W. for 9/11.

I point out the stock market under Obama to dispute the widely held belief that Obama is somehow a socialist. He's a moderate centrist.

-David

Not due to our POTUS..

Or, more accurately, Wall Street is successful in SPITE of the actions of Democrats and the Obama Administration..

Not because of their actions..

The true testimonial to the incompetence of Obama and the Democrats is one simple question.

Are Americans better off today than they were four years ago??

The answer is clearly 'no'..

Michale

I've been called worse.. :D

Though not much... :D

Michale

Like one of those alternate planet earths in Star Trek? Because if this article you posted is "Leftist ideology" I think you just proved beyond any doubt that you are a died in the wool lefty...

http://www.aynrand.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=7458

Planet Earth...

You??

Michale

Do I look like an economic genius??

Hell no..

But I have an abundance of common sense... And common sense tells me that when one is in a financial one should STOP DIGGING...

It's a no brainer.. Like our POTUS...

BTW ... stock market ... pretty good for an incompetent socialist President.

So now you are cheering Wall Street???

Wall Street is successful in SPITE of our POTUS..

Not due to our POTUS..

Michale...

Like what?

I am also constrained to point out that Ayn Rand has more in common with the Leftist ideology than with the Right.

Really? What planet do you live on?

Here on Planet Reality the people advocating for Ayn Rand are people like Ron Paul (who named is son after Rand for chrissake), Paul Ryan, Herman Cain, Sarah Palin, Glenn Beck, etc etc ad nauseum

Rand Paul ... after Ayn Rand ... get it?

-David

Michale...

Seven years w/o a terrorist attack on US proper is a pretty impressive stat...

I do believe you're an independent. But you still supported a Republican nominee for President whose ideas were the same failed trickle down ideas which caused the financial crisis.

And you supported a Democrat incumbent who has PROVEN that he is incompetent when it comes to foreign affairs AND the economy, who has violated vital foundation tenets of the Democratic Party and who has made life WORSE for each and every American...

All things considered, my choice was the more logical choice.. :D

Like him or hate him, Obama still has the better approach on the economy right now.

...despite ALL evidence to the contrary..

I'll vote for someone else when they show me better ideas.

That's the problem. You will stick with worse ideas until someone shows you better.. What if someone shows you DIFFERENT that MIGHT be better??

You would still go with bad ideas instead of taking a chance..

Michale

Your strategy seems a bit random. And what exactly would 'competent' look like? George W. Bush?

Ok. Sorry, that was a cheap shot, but couldn't resist :)

I think a better strategy would be ...

1) Vote for people who want to balance the interests of people and corporations (not corporate shills who want to return to 'trickle down' theory)

I do believe you're an independent. But you still supported a Republican nominee for President whose ideas were the same failed trickle down ideas which caused the financial crisis.

This doesn't make sense to me.

Like him or hate him, Obama still has the better approach on the economy right now. And its working. I don't know if you've noticed but the housing market is back, the S&P 500 just hit new records, and the job market is looking better than it has in a long time.

I'll vote for someone else when they show me better ideas.

The people who you seem to think would care more about our country seem like they care more about getting back into power than anything else. And by the way ... their guiding philosopher, Ayn Rand, is a person who espouses being a selfish a-hole. I'm not really sure how that fits in with caring about our country.

-David

No.. My answer is vote the current crooks out of office..

You see, I don't see things as Democrats vs Republicans.. I see things as all politicians are crooks and, since the current batch of Democrats are crooks and are incompetent lets give a new batch of crooked politicians a chance...

I voted Democrat in 2006 and 2008...

They have proved wanting.

So, now they need to move on out...

When GOP are voted in overwhelmingly in 2014 and THEY do a bad job, then I will likely vote for THEM to go and a new batch to come in...

Rinse and repeat ad nasuem until such time as we get people who care more for country and less for political agenda..

No. I'm saying Democrats didn't pass a Dem budget without any compromise.

I'll let you know what I dig up.. :D

Michale

But Democrats are still socialists right? How does this work?

Ok. That aside. Here, I'm with you in my anger.

However, your answer is 'vote Republican'. You want me to tell you what Republicans would have done. Hired the same people only without reigning them in at all.

You would have seen zero Wall Street reform as opposed to mild Wall Street reform. And much larger handouts. And much more deregulation.

So, you are saying that Democrats *never* passed legislation w/o compromising with Republicans?

No. I'm saying Democrats didn't pass a Dem budget without any compromise.

Unlike what you made up ...

It seemed to be a "big deal" when Democrats passed a Dem budget without any compromise..

Google away ... (but you can't change the subject)

-David

So, you are saying that Democrats *never* passed legislation w/o compromising with Republicans??

I just want to get you on record before I demonstrate my GOOGLE prowess... :D

Michale

That's all...

Michale

And UK is.... NATO... ding ding ding ding...

If UK is a deterrent then NATO is part of that deterrence..

Take away the deterrent of NATO *and* it's members and how do you think the Scandi countries would fare???

They would be Bolsheviks before the year was out..

Germany and Japan are said to be a month away quality nuclear weapons if they needed them.

And why would Germany or Japan, ON THEIR OWN, take on Russia???

Answer? They wouldn't....

Michale....

http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2013/01/28/gun-laws-and-the-fools-of-chelm-by-david-mamet.html

Couldn't have said it better myself!

Michale

Uh...neither? I think France and the UK's nuclear weapons are more than enough. Plus most of these countries could be nuclear powers if need arises. Germany and Japan are said to be a month away quality nuclear weapons if they needed them. I would not be surprised if there were secret plans to accelerate that even faster. Sweden has nuclear power plants and top of the line science. They would not be far behind.

The funny thing is France is the third largest nuclear power in the world because of how the US wielded it's police stick in the 50's...

Iddn't it funny that the Constitutional question was NEVER mentioned when it was a Lefty idea, eh?? :D

I had such high hopes with the reelection of Mr.O.,but someplace in Latin America is looking better in my dotage.

First michty and now you!

Com'on people!!

Obama bashin' is MY domain!!! :D

Michale

My entry for most disappointing Democrat of the week would be our Mr.Reid;I had such high hopes with the reelection of Mr.O.,but someplace in Latin America is looking better in my dotage.

The problem is what you consider a mistake really isn't..

You consider Iraq a mistake..

The people who were being brutalized and victimized by Saddam Hussein might disagree...

Michale

Hindsight is ALWAYS 20/20.....

Where were you when the Pueblo was sunk???

Michale......

It just takes ALL the fun out of things!!! :D

Michale

Finger poking is stuff like invading Vietnam for shits and giggles, turning most of SE Asia into communist dictatorships in the process.

Of course they have their own armies..

But do you think it is the threat of THEIR armies or NATO armies that keep Russia at bay???

You get three guesses and the first two don't count...

In fact, there is an valid argument that America finger poking has made the world a considerably more unsafe place than vice versa.

"Earth. Hitler. 1939."
-Captain James T Kirk, STAR TREK VI, The Undiscovered Country

Or, maybe you would prefer speaking German and living under a Nazi regime??

Me??? Not so much....

Michale

In fact, there is an valid argument that America finger poking has made the world a considerably more unsafe place than vice versa.

Maybe the countries should stop acting like little kids then...

"Earth. Hitler. 1939."
-Captain James T Kirk, STAR TREK VI, The Undiscovered Country

I think Norway's a big boy now. Sweden too.

Big enough to stand up to Russia on it's own??

{cough} {cough} bullshit {cough}

Seriously though ... how does any of this relate to an economic crisis caused by bank deregulation?

It has to do with Michty's comment about how easy it is for the Scandi Countries to live in KoomByeYa land...

It's easy when they have parents to take care of their security...

Michale

I seem to recall that we pulled the UK's ass out of the fire about 60 odd years ago as well...

Yes and this was when the US economy boomed by cleaning up the mess from the rest of the world - it's not like you didn't benefit from this.

As opposed to Obama who HIRED the financial people who caused the collapse and lavished money on the bankers and the 1%'ers

Totally agree. Yet another example of President Obama governing from the centre-right while Speaker Obama gives nice little speeches from the centre-left. Of course you probably shouldn't mention these facts to Republicans because in their minds he is a crazy socialist overturning everything they hold dear...

You're in love and when you're in love, your chosen one can do no wrong... :D

Michale

As opposed to Obama who HIRED the financial people who caused the collapse and lavished money on the bankers and the 1%'ers

Michale

Maybe we should stop treating countries like little kids then.

I think Norway's a big boy now. Sweden too. (France is questionable, but that's just because it's France :) )

Seriously though ... how does any of this relate to an economic crisis caused by bank deregulation?

-David

It's easy to do when you don't have to worry about policing the world and making sure those Left-Centre governments don't get their countries overrun by psychotic madmen with nukes..

I seem to recall that we pulled the UK's ass out of the fire about 60 odd years ago as well...

It's easy to be all you cheer about when you have no responsibility..

Like being a kid... You have your parents to take care of you...

Michale

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-09-26/is-remedy-for-next-crisis-buried-in-iceland-view-correct-.html

And surprise ... the economy recovered!

Here, we're still ruled largely by the bankers and the special interest lobbies pretty much regardless of who's in power.

-David

The left of centre parties all over Europe have been weak since the 1980s and of course the Conservative Governments that came in implemented their brand of moronic deregulation, stripping workers rights and de-taxation (a word I just invented) policies that caused the massive recession, massive deficits and massive inequality - a very similar path to the USA.

Unlike the USA (to a certain extent - you did just overwhelmingly vote Democrat in the House, Senate and Presidential elections) they learned their lesson. France, Greece, Netherlands, Spain, Portugal and Italy (and Scotland :)) have all put in or seen vast increases in support for more left of centre Governments now (or have coalitions that include a left of centre party). Even the UK coalition includes a left of centre party which stops the poor/unemployed/ill etc getting compltely raped by Conservatives (but this party is really weak and just caves to Conservatives sadly). But the UK is like the US with a large number of older voters and wealthy voters who are stuck in the past voting Conservative 'because they've done that all their life' and so on. Especially in London.

And of course the Scandi countries have had left of centre Governments for a while and didn't have to bail out their banks, didn't have large deficits, have way more equal societies and a considerably better standard of living. SHOCK HORROR. Lol

/rant

Good Lord yes, michty. What is going on in Europe. Where did all of this belief in "austerity" come from? Who is pushing for what seems like such a suicidal policy? I mean ... other than the Germans

-David

When?

It's a bit tough having discussions w/ you Michale when one of your favorite argumentative strategies is accusing Democrats of doing things that never happened.

-David

The three-judge panel’s ruling is a major blow to Mr. Obama. The judges ruled that the appointments Mr. Obama made to the National Labor Relations Board are illegal, and the board no longer has a quorum to operate.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jan/25/federal-court-obama-broke-law-recess-appointments/#ixzz2J0YHm01A

And the hits just keep on coming....

I said it then and I'll say it now..

What part of "UNCONSTITUTIONAL" does Obama not understand???

Michale

Sure enough, the sudden, severe medicine cut short Britain’s economic recovery, and threw the nation back into recession."
- Krugman

As I have pointed out many times on here, you should be thankful that you have a leader in charge who decided not to go down the route of austerity (with tax cuts) and absolutely kill the recovery like our Conservative Government did...

Yeh House Republicans definitely don't have a problem compromising LOLOLOL. It's the Senate that's the problem. LOLOLOLOLOLOL.

Big deal.

It seemed to be a "big deal" when Democrats passed a Dem budget without any compromise..

Wait for it.... Wait for it....

"That's different"... :D

Why should the Democratic controlled Senate and/or President Obama even consider a 100% Republican budget?

Flip it around and you'll answer your own question.. :D

But Michale is right.

Michale

But Michale is right. Everyone on here should write a letter to their Senator:

"Dear Senator
I am appalled that you have not been passing legislation that has 0% of chancing, contains no compromises and is based on your radical whacko views of the world. Shame on you. If you don't get your act together and start passing completely useless partisan legislation (at LEAST 30 times per piece) I will have no option but to vote for a crazy radical tea-party member who will do this."

The House passes a Republican budget w/o any compromise.

Big deal.

Why should the Democratic controlled Senate and/or President Obama even consider a 100% Republican budget?

Idiocy.

Passing a 100% Republican budget doesn't seem to me like the House actually doing their job - more like 'we're being a bunch of assholes'.

Maybe that's why Congress is so unpopular these days.

-David

That's crazy! Fire them all and replace them with tea-party members immediately. Damn stupid Chamber actually trying to get stuff done - who do they think they are!

Uhhhhh, the House HAS passed a budget...

Every single year, according to the law...

Reid never brought the legislation to the floor..

In VIOLATION of the law, I might add...

Michale

I agree with a proper NBNP that requires THE SAME bill to be passed in both Chambers (as sad as it is that it has to come to this to force House Republicans to actually compromise and pass bills). But there is absolutely no doubt it is 100% unconstitutional (one of the side effects of relying on a centuries old document to provide the scope for a modern legal system).

However, what the Republicans did turns out to be good in passing something that is constitutional. If they had passed a proper NBNP, instead of the current version which merely delays pay, and the Supreme Court found it unconstitutional (likely) then the Debt Ceiling increase, which was only tagged on to this requirement, could potentially disappear with the bill. Then you'd be in weird situation where a bunch of debts incurred had been paid off 'unlawfully'. Who knows what kind of mess that would create (which illustrates the stupidity in having a debt ceiling anyway - but hey America gonna America!)

Michale
In other words, the House bamboozled the Senate into actually doing their jobs and following the law..

Uhm not really. The job of producing a budget belongs to the House. Always has done and always will do. So they're basically deflecting the fact that they haven't produced a budget that could pass the Senate because the Republicans in the House are whack-jobs unwilling to compromise or pass anything (see other thread).

Once again they say: 'Please Sensible non-whack-job-nut-case Republican members of the Senate, once again hold our hands and pressure us into doing our jobs'. EXACTLY like the fiscal cliff bill all over again.

Hahahahah. When the public realizes ...

Truer words were never spoken. The issue, however, is that the public typically doesn't pay any attention to everyday goings on in Congress. Neither does the media.

However, they might pay some attention now that Republicans are trying to pick a fight. Keep in mind they haven't been very good at picking fights lately.

Some of the things which could be brought to light by this new found media attention are a) the extraordinary use of the filibuster in the Senate by Republicans, b) the Republican fight against math (in their budget), and c) they're political posturing which you mention Chris.

Remember, the Republican position is "fight everything Obama". Now they've just proposed legislation saying "we should find a compromise or our pay gets docked". (Forget for a second that no ones pay actually gets docked).

Aren't they going against their own strategy?

They look like a rudderless ship. (Not that I'm complaining mind ...)

-David

In other words, the House bamboozled the Senate into actually doing their jobs and following the law..

And this is a bad thing HOW... exactly??? :D

Michale