NEITHER ONE!!! THAT'S WHAT!

Ahem.

Okay, carry on ... :)

By the by, you in for $20,000??? Are you THAT sure that Obama is going to win the election?? :D

Michale

A wonderful thing...

"Detente.. It's a wonderful thing.."
-Maureen Robinson, LOST IN SPACE

Michale......

Well I definitely agree 100% with you on something!

No, your point was that the Left extremists are not involved in politics, which is utterly ludicrous and totally baseless...

You can't tarnish Obama with anything some nut-job on the street said.

Yet YA'ALL try and tarnish the entire RIGHT with something a nut-job says...

You admit your own bigotry and then call it sunshine and air-freshener.

There is simply no sense to debating you. You simply make stuff up, you have absolutely NO FACTS to back up ANYTHING you say and yet you STILL think you are fair and rational...

Your statements are NOTHING but political bigotry... Pure and simple.

Why don't we just put any discussion on hold until AFTER 6 Nov..

THEN we will all know who was right and who was wrong...

Michale......

What you love to do is respond to a story like an elected official making comments about legitimate rape, by saying something like 'I met a guy on the street and he said he was left wing then punched me in the face when I said I hate Obama - the left are just as intolerant!' and you seem to think that this has absolutely any relevance to the fact that the right wing extreme positions are coming from elected officials and candidates WITHIN the Republican party.

You can't tarnish Obama with anything some nut-job on the street said. When his own party members start to make extremist radical crazy comments, then you can start to tarnish the Democrats with these (like the Democrats do with the many nut-job Republicans).

If it helps your argument that the majority of the republican Party DOESN'T believe that rape can be "legitimate" then THAT is what you'll say...

Lol nope. Do you even read my posts?

My point was there are left and right wing extremists in America - you LOVE to post left wing extremists and tag them as 'left'.

But the difference is that on the right, your extremists have invaded politics a lot more - to the extent that they even get their extremist positions (which require constitutional amendments) accepted at their parties convention.

Once you see leftist intolerance and extreme views being ratified at the Democrats convention THEN you can start to go crazy about how it's 'both sides'. Good luck with that.

I am bigoted against ALL politicians as they are self-serving liars who only care about themselves and rarely about anyone else...

Of course, within that subset, I know that a special place in hell is reserved for Democrats due to their blatant and perverse hypocrisy...

Like has been said. I hate Republicans.. And I really REALLY hate Democrats... :D

Michale......

Yet, YOU posted that it is NOT the position of the majority of the conservatives..

So, to sum up..

If it helps your argument that the entire Republican Party believes that rape could be "legitimate" then THAT is what you'll say..

If it helps your argument that the majority of the republican Party DOESN'T believe that rape can be "legitimate" then THAT is what you'll say...

Yet, you have shown absolutely NO PROOF, NO FACTUAL EVIDENCE that indicates that ANYONE, outside of this one Akin moron, believes rape can be "legitimate".....

In other words, you are simply bigoted against the Right and will say anything to support your bigotry, facts and logic be damned...

Michale.....

What on earth are you blabbering about now? Every day I see stuff about the tax returns. The reason it has quietened is Romney realised that he couldn't talk about the economy anymore, so started lying about social welfare/Medicare as Plan B.

Why do ya'all think that some moron making a "legitimate rape" comment is indicative of the entire Right??
Hmmmmmmmmm?????

You mean the constitutional ban on rape in all cases that Republicans just voted into their platform? Yeh that's them KIND OF taking their extreme nut-job views into politics lol.

Spoken like a true Left Wing bigot... :D

"Well, it's good to finally have you out of the closet."
-SecState Arthur Curry, THE FINAL OPTION

:D

Michale....

Hmmmmmmmmm?????

Michale.....

HOW could I possibly think that the LEFT would be mean to Ms Love..

What was I thinking!!????

Michale.....

When it is done towards a conservative???

Oh gee... Let me think... WHY would I *EVER* think that!???

Michale.....

I was actually thinking 20K...

Do you want to match that??? Are you THAT sure that Obama will win??

Because that's how sure I am Obama will lose...

Pee or get off the pot... :D

Michale.....

We haven't heard anything from Team Obama about Romney's tax returns..

Every since Romney tied release of the tax returns to release of the school records, Obama has shut up about it..

Geeeee.. I wonder why!! :D

Michale.....

The difference between the left and right (in America) is that on the left there are extremists with extreme views but they don't involve them in politics or have policies making their extreme views a constitutional amendment... Or invite the person with extreme views to be a speaker at the convention.

Yea, the Left is ALL about diversity, isn't it...

Wonder why no one from the Left is defending Ms Love???

Actually, no... I don't wonder at all. I know why..

And it's sad.. Just plain sad....

Michale.....

Michale.....

A *CANADIAN* conservative's perspective.

You DO realize that this is an AMERICAN election right??

So, let's see what an AMERICAN Democrat says:

Why Obama May Lose
Increasing taxes on the wealthy is barely a Band-Aid on the exponential growth of Medicare, social security and defense spending. If President Obama wants to defeat Mitt Romney and lead America back to prosperity, then it's his responsibility to stop the negative ads (he's behaving like a Republican) and deal with the country's most pressing issue -- economic reform.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rob-taub/why-obama-may-lose_b_1770312.html

See, I can do it too!! :D

Michale.....

According to you, Romney is 89% certain to win (please post the link for this too) so you should be gambling your HOUSE at Intrade with their 43% odds (a MASSIVE 46% edge for you - must be because you're right and they're wrong huh?)

57% is still a decent edge for me as I'd say there is 60-70% chance of Obama being elected from most objective analysis that I follow. But I'm not an idiot and I'd trust those odds to probably be much closer to reality so my 'edge' probably isn't there and I certainly wouldn't bet a lot of a money on an edge that could be only 3%...

There's an old saying amongst us old USENET'ers...

DYOFR

:D

Michale.....

That's all their is to it...

But hay.....

Why don't you and I pop over to Intrade and put our money where our mouths are?? :D

How confident ARE you that your clown as opposed to my clown will win????

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm????? :D

Michale.....

PS. Please link this UoC study I'd love to read their reasoning...

Actually, you are only interested in the studies and statistics that confirm your own bigoted analysis..

The UoC Study has accurately picked the winning president in every election since Reagan AND has a whopping 89.6% SUCCESS rate in accurately predicting the Electoral College results.

Of course, you IGNORE that study because it doesn't confirm your blindly bigoted devotion to Obama and the Democrats..

So go peddle your crap somewhere else..

This here is a REALITY based forum..

And it's clear you have not even the SLIGHTEST acquaintance with reality...

Yer clown is going to lose....

That's all their is to it...

Michale.....

The discussion has ALWAYS been about the economy.

Lolol you need to re-read the article you are commenting on. The discussion has always been about bigotry and, in particular, my view of your Obama hatred (and blindness to reality) as bigotry.

I could show you more polls if you like but I feel I am wasting my time.

And if you think this election is 'close' then you must think a 35-43% chance of Romney winning is 'close' then you are correct the election is 'close'.

My definition of close would be that this number would be closer to 50%. And things like the average lead switching places constantly in the national polls (Romney hasn't held a lead in 2012), Romney being ahead of Obama in the key battleground states (again - no average lead) or Romney gaining ground (not losing ground) in every key voting demographic. Look at CW's own analysis to see how far behind Romney still is.

But I follow studies and statistics, not blind bigoted analysis, so my views are a little different than yours...

Since I know the words will likely burn your tongue, allow me to answer for you..

The elections is very close because A>Romney is not as bad as you claim and 2> Obama is not as good as you claim...

Michale.....

Nice try...

The discussion has ALWAYS been about the economy. You yourself have stated that this is the number one issue.. So, nice attempt at a dodge, but you lose...

And you lose again with a 4 month old poll..

I said RELEVANT poll...

The fact that you have to reach so far back simply proves that, in the here and now, you got nuttin' :D

I'll ask again. If Obama is so good as you claim and Romney is so bad as you claim, WHY is it a close election??

You can't answer....

Michale.....

Then you shouldn't have ANY trouble finding me a relevant poll that says the majority of Americans trust Obama to fix the economy rather than Romney.

Lol I said 'Romney is coming from behind in the polls' and you spin this to be about what polls say about the economy? I don't know why I bother, it's like debating a child, but if it will shut you up:
http://www.nationaljournal.com/2012-presidential-campaign/gallup-poll-obama-more-trusted-than-romney-on-economy-20120420

If Obama's record is so good, why isn't he stomping Romney into the ground??
If Obama's record is as good as YOU claim it is, he should be leaving Romney in the dust..

Again: look at the polls. Romney is coming from behind. The race is close just now, as it was in the summer 4 years ago. But Romney has never been anywhere near close to the White House in anyway yet. Even McCain took a substantial lead in the polls against Obama, Romney hasn't even accomplished this yet. By the RCP average he has NEVER had a lead in 2012. NEVER. The closest he has got is to within 0.2% back in MAY.

If Obama's record is as good as YOU claim it is, he should be leaving Romney in the dust..

Yet, the polls show the election is neck and neck..

If Romney is so awful and Obama is so good, why is it a close race???

Michale.....

Then you shouldn't have ANY trouble finding me a relevant poll that says the majority of Americans trust Obama to fix the economy rather than Romney.

ANY relevant poll...

Put up or shut up...

Michale.....

Michty6 [54] Informative link, they'll never acknowledge the fact that President Obama decided to put the monetary expense of the wars on record as a major contributing factor in the debt numbers.

Yeh almost $3 trillion (before interest) in increased defence spending... Which Romney has said he wants to expand - not cut. Fiscal Conservatives are only fiscal with the things they don't like.

Michale
If Obama's record is so good, why is he running AWAY from it??

He isn't. He stood ground when Romney made it about the economy. Romney realised this wasn't working so went to plan B: Ryan VP, welfare lies and Medicare lies... Did you not find it funny how Mr Economy isn't talking about the economy anymore?

And you need to look at the polls outside of your own little world to see that Romney is coming from behind in this election...
This is why it's impossible to discuss things with you..
You simply make stuff up that has absolutely NO basis in reality.

What on earth are you talking about? Do you look at polls? I don't think Romney has been ahead of Obama at any point in any poll in 2012. Just more denial of reality from you...

Lol Michale here you go on about Obama's record

If Obama's record is so good, why is he running AWAY from it??

And you need to look at the polls outside of your own little world to see that Romney is coming from behind in this election...

This is why it's impossible to discuss things with you..

You simply make stuff up that has absolutely NO basis in reality.

Show me a poll that has Obama beating Romney over the economy..

Just ONE reliable and mainstream poll.

You can't because it doesn't exist..

Michale.....

CW,

thank you for hearing my suggestion. if by any chance you should run into secretary duncan or one of his staffers, here's something to think about when phrasing questions: his pattern throughout the past three and a half years has been to tell critics what they want to hear. but to many educators, his words and his actions appear to be in direct conflict with each other.

http://zhaolearning.com/2010/09/03/master-of-myth-what-arne-duncan-says-and-does/

the thing i'd most like to know is whether he's being intentionally duplicitous, or whether there's a big bubble and he just doesn't realize how untrustworthy he comes off to many of the rank and file. here are a few of his statements and what i interpret them to mean:

"They [teacher ambassador fellows] have held over 200 meetings with their colleagues across the country to help shape a proposed $5 billion competitive program" = a lot of talking, then more of the same, expensive, ineffective, harmful corporate policy.

"schools of education did not adequately prepare [teachers]" = the same policy imposed on college too.

"engaged parents are essential to creating the right conditions" = more parent triggers to close public schools and open non-union charters

"Teachers embrace accountability, but say the current generation of tests is stifling teacher creativity" = more tests, bigger tests, more expensive tests, higher-stakes tests.

"student growth" = more test scores

"the impact of teachers on student learning." = attributing student test scores to teachers.

if his words really meant what they said, the policy would be wonderful. but it seems like every apparently pro-teacher statement is corporate-speak for the exact opposite.

~joshua

And you need to look at the polls outside of your own little world to see that Romney is coming from behind in this election... Obviously you don't grasp how awful a candidate and how extreme his party is, but the (potential) voters certainly do (thankfully).

Really, I mean that. Anytime I can indulge in a Trek quote or 5, buddy I am there!! :D

But, here are the facts...

FACT #1
Obama would be running on his record if he could.

FACT #2
Obama CAN'T run on his record because he knows it is abysmal.

FACT #3
The numero uno issue in the upcoming election is the economy.

FACT #4
Every poll that has ever been taken in the last 6 months clearly show that the majority of Americans prefer Romney over Obama to handle the economy..

"These are the facts. And they are undisputed."
-Captain 'Smilin' Jack Ross, A FEW GOOD MEN

Given these *FACTS* (that you claim to cherish but never accept when they go against Obama) it's clear who our next President will be...

Now, I'll grant you. A lot could happen in 70-odd days...

Aliens from Neptune could land and declare Earth their domain...

A nuclear strike by terrorists could devastate Tampa and Obama would declare martial law and postpone the election...

A 10.8 earthquake could strike Washington DC and send it sliding into the Atlantic Ocean...

But....

Barring any of that or similar events of earth-shattering magnitude, the coming election is a foregone conclusion..

By any logical or rational litmus test that mean ANYTHING to voters, this election will go to Romney...

Remember, you heard it here first... :D

But I truly hope we can continue our fascinating discussions up until Romney is elected..

They really are a lot of fun... :D

Michale.....

I will edumacate you yet, michty!! :D

Michale.....

Well, I see you have abandoned your "facts" charade..

Good for you... :D

Everyone hated and feared the United States prior to 2008..

Now, everyone hates and LAUGHS at the United States...

Way ta go, Obama!!!!

Michale.....

That's true. It's been a while since everyone hated America (2008 in fact). What America needs is to elect someone who will ruin the last 4 years of foreign diplomacy repair as instantly as he can piss off their biggest ally. Vote Romney!

Oh gods...

REALLY!!???

Deliver me from people who don't know Trek... :^/

Michale...

Why is that?? :D

Michale.....

Of course, if, by 'foreign diplomacy' you mean Obama is better at kissing ass, kow-towing and bowing to ever tin-plated dictator with delusions of god-hood then yes...

Obama is MUCH better at foreign diplomacy..

Of course, if you are talking about actually doing stuff that is in the best interests of America...

Well, to be perfectly frank, Obama sucks...

Tell me.. How is Syria doing these days??

Egypt?? Following Iran's example because Obama was too chicken shit to actually LEAD.. Only a Democrat would think that "LEAD FROM BEHIND" is a GOOD thing!!

Libya?? Our "seat at the table" is non-existent...

About the ONLY good thing that I can give Obama credit for is the covert operations against Iran...

But then he had to ruin that by bragging about it to his MSM to help his floundering campaign...

So, yea.. If China hates Romney, then THAT is a VERY good reason to vote for Romney...

Michale.....

Well, let's take stock.

Castro loves Obama. Chavez loves Obama. Russia already has their hooks in Obama. China wants Obama..

Seems to me we can judge Obama by his supporters..

Every tinpot dictator in the world wants Obama to win...

That's a pretty good reason to make sure Obama loses....

At least, for Americans.... All the other countries that want to see America fail??

They can go pound salt... :D

Michale.....

hehehehehehehehehehehehehehe

Gods I love Floridians!!! :D

Michale.....

The BEST reason to date, to vote Romney..

Michale.....

Two guys going at it for thousands and thousands of years..

And why??

Because one guy is black on the Left side and white on the Right side and the other is white on the Left side and Black on the other..

It's like, "REALLY!!! *THAT* is ya'all's problem!!!!????"

That's how I feel about Republicans and Democrats...

It's all so frakin' pointless...

Michale.....

Who said I am unable to change??

If Obama started being the president he CLAIMED he would be, then my opinion would change accordingly..

Until that happens, everything will remain the same..

Michale.....

Saw this too. I believe it was in children though, which is a key point. I don't think anyone is advocating children take any drugs or even consume alcohol either.

It was in teen years.. Which DOES include adult-hood...

But I am glad to see you embrace the science.. :D

Michale.....

Michale

Unlike your hatred of Romney and everything Republican...

I don't personally hate Romney. I hate his politics and policies and view of the world. If he changed any of these, my view of him would change. I am also willing to accept some of his views may be correct, even if his motives are not. I would also accept that he has taken positions just now to the extreme far right that he doesn't actually believe in just to appease his party and increase his chances of election. This makes me question his character and integrity even more.

In response to my saying 'You will hate him regardless of what he does' you said "I have acknowledged the good things Obama has done. Doesn't mean I don't hate him any less..." - you pretty much proved my point! This is bigotry - blind hatred that you are unable to change because it is so engrained in you.

Did you know that science shows that pot smoking lowers IQs permanently?? :D

Saw this too. I believe it was in children though, which is a key point. I don't think anyone is advocating children take any drugs or even consume alcohol either.

Well said....

I couldn't have said it better myself...

Although I did try, as that is the same point I was making with the all-important '-D' or '-R' that follows people's names..

I know, I know.. Ya'all vehemently deny that the '-D'/'-R' has ANYTHING to do with ya'all's stated positions..

And yet, as michty points out, actions and words speak louder.. (see, michty, you did get SOMETHING right!! :D)

Michale.....

The whole point of this months long circus is for people to make value-judgements and indicate them with their votes. Votes cast are "yes" and "no" there is no "maybe." But while the entire exercise is a process designed to produce value judgements based on political bias, political bigotry is counterproductive. We do not govern through unanimous consent, we govern through consensus.

When we express our political bias at the polls we should understand that not everyone will agree. That not everyone's interests coincide. Compromise, accommodation and even capitulation will occasionally be required in order to reach consensus. The more people with strong political biases the stronger our democracy and country. The more people with political bigotry the weaker our democracy and country. The difference between bias and bigotry being "intolerance."

Too many of us, right and left, expect too much, are too willing to childishly hurt others and themselves in "protest" of not getting their way enough. Our increasing political bigotry goes hand-in-hand with our increasing acceptance of greed and selfishness. Because, as with so many of the ills plaguing our country, our general amorality, particularly with regard to greed and selfishness are at the heart of most of our current problems; just as they're at the heart of our rampant political bigotry.

But since we seem to be a nation that loves oversimplifying let me also say intolerance to a party is political bigotry, intolerance to a political position may be political bigotry, but it also may not. The general application of intelligence involves gaining knowledge which narrows possibilities until single outcomes become so virtually certain that our being wise enough to be intolerant of alternative possibilities dramatically improves our chances of success. So intolerance and bigotry are sometimes appropriate and sometimes not. The hard part, as always, is determining when they are and when they aren't. In general though, and at the risk of oversimplifying myself, the broader-based the intolerance the more likely it is the bigotry is inappropriate.

Did you know that science shows that pot smoking lowers IQs permanently?? :D

Since ya'all are "science uber alles"....

"Hay... Uber-tracker... Over hear.."
-Manny The Mammouth, ICE AGE

.... I thought ya'all might find this science fascinating... :D

Michale.....

No, I have a very rational and very logical hatred of Obama that has absolutely NOTHING to do with bigotry, political or otherwise..

Unlike your hatred of Romney and everything Republican...

You will hate him regardless of what he does.

Once again, you are in error. I can rise above my hatred and be completely objective about things..

I have acknowledged the good things Obama has done.

Doesn't mean I don't hate him any less, but I *DO* give credit where credit is due...

I CAN be objective... Unlike others, I might add...

But, enough about me... :D

Michale.....

And back we go to square one. This is why I said you have a bigoted view of Obama. You will hate him regardless of what he does.

Michale.....

Ohmygods, is THAT what you were trying to prove!??

Jesus, I could have saved you all that time and effort in making an ass of yourself..

I have already conceded, way way back and numerous times SINCE that my hatred of Obama is PERSONAL, not political...

Sure, there are many policies of Obama's I disagree with. Just as there are many policies of Bush and Reagan and Clinton I disagree with.. But I still like and respect the men... Well, Clinton has some additional baggage, but that's another discussion.... There are even policies of Obama's that I agree with...

My hatred (too strong a word, but it will suffice) for Obama has *always* been personal...

I thought you knew that...

I thought EVERYONE here knew that...

Michale.....

I was kinda hoping for a......

"The HELL you will!!"

.... response...

Ah well, I guess we all can't be Trek aficionados

:D

Count 10. I originally didn't actually think you couldn't name 1 Obama policy you disagreed with but now (the 2nd time I have asked you to name one and you keep avoiding it) I am seriously doubting this...

Yer right, Michty.. I can't name ONE Obama policy I don't like.

Not a one..

I LOVE THEM ALL!!!

Yes Michty... Yer absolutely right. :D

There, there now... Rest your weary head...

Michale......

Count 10. I originally didn't actually think you couldn't name 1 Obama policy you disagreed with but now (the 2nd time I have asked you to name one and you keep avoiding it) I am seriously doubting this...

Since you have already admitted that you will never admit that you are wrong, any more discussion is simply pointless...

I can do this all day.. And I promise you that I can outlast you.. :D

"And you can't take me by force! I'll stalemate you for eternity if I have to!"
-Quinn, STAR TREK: VOYAGER, Deathwish

:D

Michale.....

count 12,983,9643,831,325,568,893.31425654201230

Isn't that what our current National Debt is at, thanx to Obama and the Democrats??? :D

Michale......

I don't disagree agree with Joshua (AGAIN: READ MY DAM POSTS). But I certainly don't agree with you. You interpret Joshua's statements as 'Obama's educational policies have been abysmal and that they have done great harm to this country.' I suggest you read them again. And consider that something as complex as education isn't a yes/no question. Although in your bigoted mind it is (no to whatever Obama says since he is evil!).

I can name many policies of Obama's that I disagree with...

But........ you don't. Again. When challenged once more. Count 7.

count 12,983,9643,831,325,568,893.31425654201230

"One million seven hundred seventy one thousand five hundred sixty one. That's assuming one tribble, multiplying with an average litter of ten, producing a new generation every twelve hours over a period of three days."
-Commander Spock, STAR TREK, The Trouble With Tribbles

:D

Michale.....

Of course you don't...

I believe your statement is right-wing hyperbole based on pure rhetoric without analysing anything or presenting any facts (as usual).

Joshua's facts spell it out quite clearly...

But, just as I said, you don't ACCEPT any facts that PROVE Obama has fucked up...

Obama has fucked up...

You can't even bring yourself to THINK it, let alone write it...

I can name many policies of Obama's that I disagree with...

But it would be a LOT faster to name the policies I agree with..

But it simply wouldn't matter.

You have proven beyond ANY doubt that, when confronted with FACTS that show that Obama has fucked up, you simply IGNORE them....

Since you have already admitted that you will never admit that you are wrong, any more discussion is simply pointless...

Wouldn't you agree??

So, I'll simply play with my new toy until I get bored.. :D

Michale.....

YES or NO

No I do not agree with YOUR statement. I believe your statement is right-wing hyperbole based on pure rhetoric without analysing anything or presenting any facts (as usual).

Nor do I agree with your interpretation of my statement.

Again I don't hold Obama on a pedestal. But I do hold Romney and Ryan in extremely low regard. That makes the debate on most issues, even those where Obama has performed poorly, very easy.

Again: I can criticise Obama for involving too much money in education. YOU cannot because YOU on the right believe in this and want to elect a guy who will involve even more big money in education.

Every day I point this out and everyday you just ignore it and call me an Obama-lover.

THIS is why (yet again) you can't even name 1 Obama policy you disagree with when challenged to do so - ONE POLICY (count 5 on that).

You can't even BRING yourself to directly concede that Obama has fucked things up...

You equivocate up the wazzoo and are never firm or absolute about ANYTHING except how bad the GOP is...

I have to wonder if you have ever had an original thought in your life that wasn't filtered thru your Left Wing ideology meter/filter...

This is what happens when one is enslaved by political dogma and ideology... They become just another lemming. Another useful idiot to be used and discarded...

Michale.....

No, that's not an answer. It's a namby pamby wimpy equivocation that doesn't address Joshua's points..

Basically, you are saying, "Yea I understand your feelings, but Obama is still The Messiah, The One, The Great And Powerful and we all must fall all over ourselves praising Him and His light."

Now, answer the REAL question...

Do you agree that Obama's educational policies have been abysmal and that they have done great harm to this country.

YES or NO

Count 6,367,422 (and counting)

Michale.....

But I urge you not to become a single issue voter. Think of the bigger picture and the wider issues: healthcare, social welfare, the economy and foreign policy. And think about the potential disaster for education if Romney-Ryan are allowed to unleash their 'privatise everything, let the market roam free' brand of far-right Conservatism...

Count 4.

Count to your heart's content... Won't change the FACTS of what I have posted...

Michale.....

Count 3.

That Obama's education policies ARE abysmal and have done great harm to this country's education system.

Is THAT what you are saying??

Count 2

See!? I can do that to..

Answer the question. Is Joshua right or wrong in his criticisms of Obama's policies.

YES or NO..

Jesus H Christ, why is it so damn hard to get a straight answer out of Democrats??? :^/

Michale.....

Count 2.

So, you are now saying that Joshua is right.

That Obama's education policies ARE abysmal and have done great harm to this country's education system.

Is THAT what you are saying??

Michale.....

Count 1.

You just DON'T get it, do you??

It doesn't matter what I say. What I show. What I prove.. In YOUR mind, it will still be WRONG...

Joshua made some fine points that you acknowledged..

Guess what???

YOU STILL THINK HE IS WRONG...

And, if Joshua were to argue HIS points as aggressively and as passionately as I argue mine, guess what??

You would then be saying the EXACT same things about HIM that you do about ME...

The problem isn't my facts.. They are extremely valid and very well argued..

The problem is, you start from the position that Obama is right about everything and that ANYONE who disputes Obama and his policies is wrong... And, even worse, you can't even acknowledge the possibility that you COULD be wrong..

So, why should I bother going thru all the facts over and over again, when you have already stated you won't ACCEPT any facts???

You are right. Obama is right.

Anyone who says different is wrong.

That is your stated position. A position that you have made clear will NEVER change..

So, tell me...

What's the point? Why bother with bringing fact after fact after fact to the discussion?

You have made it clear that it won't matter a damn to you..

The textbook definition of a fanatic..

I'm just sayin'...

Michale....

Lol amazing. Literally 3 posts after I stated 'My general approach is Obama/America has done many things wrong over many years'. Do you even read people's posts on here?

The challenge to name an Obama policy you disagree with still stands btw. I won't be holding my breath though, I remember you avoiding it like the plague last time I issued it as well... Let's see how many posts you go this time.

The facts as YOU define them...

But your idea of "facts" is colored and influenced by your Left wing fanaticism..

ANYTHING that doesn't support Obama is wrong..

THAT is your stated position..

So, you create some facts and ignore other facts that support the pre-determined conclusion....

THAT is your entire problem..

You can't see past your own enslavement...

Michale....

I HAVE legitimate criticisms of Obama..

You simply can't acknowledge that, due to your enslavement by Left wing ideology...

ANYONE who disagrees with your ideology is automatically WRONG, regardless of the logic and rational basis for their disagreement..

And, since you can't even ADMIT that you could be wrong, any discussion is pointless. It's like trying to debate a deaf and dumb person. They do not have the capacity to verbally debate, so any discussion is pointless..

You do not have the capacity to admit when you are wrong, so any debate is pointless...

It would be like debating a brick...

Michale.....

Again I don't and neither do most people on here I have seen. My general approach is Obama/America has done many things wrong over many years. But the GOP solutions are mostly repeating the same mistakes and thus are even more wrong.

Look at Joshua's legitimate criticism of Obama on education on this page and how people have responded. This is what YOU would get as well if you actually made legitimate criticism instead of repeating made up right-wing rhetoric and lies.

a political fanatic will ALWAYS see those who disagree with them as fanatics as well

No I see a political fanatic as someone who holds extremist fanatical views that don't hold up in the face of facts. Like being gay is a lifestyle choice, Obama was not born in America, Obama is lying about his school history etc.

All of these don't stand the light of facts but because YOU are approaching them with your 'Obama is evil/wrong' bigoted view point they make sense to you.

My bust....

In the interests of Wegantia amity, I will cease gloating about this. :D

Michale.....

Of course, we're not keeping score, but it looks like that was something else I was right about, eh?? :D

Michale.....

Ahhhhhh Fear-Mongering is alive and well and has found a home amongst the hysterical Left... :D

Michale.....

Even if it were true (which it's not) how is that any different from ya'all who approach every debate with the idea already set in your mind that Obama/Democrats are right and the GOP is wrong??

The problem here is you are viewing my actions (actions?? When have you seen any of my actions??) and words from the position of an admitted political fanatic.

So, of COURSE you are going to conclude that I am a Right Wing fanatic. Just like a person who is a thief will always see people stealing from him, just like a racist will ALWAYS accuse everyone they disagree with as being a racist, a political fanatic will ALWAYS see those who disagree with them as fanatics as well..

Do you know what the hallmark of a NON-fanatic is??

The ability to be above one's own prejudices and bigotry and concede the possibility that they could be wrong..

You have already admitted that you cannot even CONCEIVE that you are wrong..

Ergo, that makes you the fanatic and me the non-fanatic.

See how logical that is? :D

Don't tell me.. Let me guess..

NOW you can concede that you may be wrong.. Right?? :D

Michale.....

Michale....

I understand your feelings over Obama on Education and there are legitimate criticisms there for sure. The same in how he has handled big money in general. And yes it is one of the most important issues.

But I urge you not to become a single issue voter. Think of the bigger picture and the wider issues: healthcare, social welfare, the economy and foreign policy. And think about the potential disaster for education if Romney-Ryan are allowed to unleash their 'privatise everything, let the market roam free' brand of far-right Conservatism...

Lol nope. I could join the Republican party tomorrow and be a card carrying member. That does not make me a Republican.

Like I said actions and words speak louder than name-tags. You WANT to apply the name-tag of unaffiliated independent but nobody on here is buying it. We know you are actually a far-right-Republican-party-anti-Obama-extremist. Instead of approaching a debate logically and rationally, you approach with the view 'whatever Obama did is wrong'. This is your bigoted opinion that you bring to every debate.

Actually, when it comes to politics, that's exactly what it does.. :D

Your actions and words speak for themselves.

No. Your INTERPRETATION of my actions and words is what speaks to you...

But, since you have already admitted that you are not open to ANY logic or reason, since you cannot even CONCEIVE that you might be wrong, you are effectively impaired..

In other words, your bigotry controls your thought processes...

Which isn't to say that I don't have any bigotry. I do..

I hate terrorists. I hate child molesters. And I hate politicians...

Sue me. :D

Michale.....

Just being of 'no political party' does not make you objective, neutral or un-bigoted. Your actions and words speak for themselves.

Also the new definition of irony = Michale making a plea to rid politics of bigotry ;)

Son, I have been making that same plea for over 6 years now, as regulars here can attest to...

The problem is that ya'all (with few exceptions) are so entrenched in and enslaved by political dogma and ideology, you simply can't see how ya'all are part of the problem, NOT part of the solution.

Being of no political Party gives me a perspective that is simply IMPOSSIBLE for you to recognize, let alone acquire..

Michale.....

And Democrats would NEVER play the race card, right??

:^/

Michale.....