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	<title>Comments on: Republican Factionalism&#039;s Future</title>
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	<link>http://www.chrisweigant.com/2012/03/07/republican-factionalisms-future/</link>
	<description>Reality-based political commentary</description>
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		<title>By: dsws</title>
		<link>http://www.chrisweigant.com/2012/03/07/republican-factionalisms-future/#comment-20064</link>
		<dc:creator>dsws</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Mar 2012 16:56:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chrisweigant.com/?p=5306#comment-20064</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m saying that as long as we elect people the way we do, we&#039;re stuck with a two-party system.

As it is, all significant offices are elected by having a list of candidates on the ballot, you vote for one, and the one with the most votes wins.*  A candidate doesn&#039;t need a majority (i.e. more than half) to get elected, just a plurality (i.e. more than anyone else).  

*(The electoral college in presidential elections is technically an exception.  But it only makes a difference when candidates are basically tied.)

Nor is it at all proportional: in a hypothetical scenario where 20% of the voters vote Theocrat, 35% vote Plutocrat, and 45% vote Democrat, the candidates elected from that district are Theocrats 0%, Plutocrats 0%, and Democrats 100%.  Of course, the voters know this in advance. So do the candidates.  And the organizers, and the donors.  So we don&#039;t have separate Theocratic and Plutocratic parties: they would lose every time.  Likewise we don&#039;t have separate parties championing the causes of organized labor and LGBT equality.

If we changed the system, so that 35% of the votes would get you about 35% of the seats in the House instead of a big fat zero, we would have those separate parties.  I think that would be a good thing, because there are more than two sides to every interesting issue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I'm saying that as long as we elect people the way we do, we're stuck with a two-party system.</p>
<p>As it is, all significant offices are elected by having a list of candidates on the ballot, you vote for one, and the one with the most votes wins.*  A candidate doesn't need a majority (i.e. more than half) to get elected, just a plurality (i.e. more than anyone else).  </p>
<p>*(The electoral college in presidential elections is technically an exception.  But it only makes a difference when candidates are basically tied.)</p>
<p>Nor is it at all proportional: in a hypothetical scenario where 20% of the voters vote Theocrat, 35% vote Plutocrat, and 45% vote Democrat, the candidates elected from that district are Theocrats 0%, Plutocrats 0%, and Democrats 100%.  Of course, the voters know this in advance. So do the candidates.  And the organizers, and the donors.  So we don't have separate Theocratic and Plutocratic parties: they would lose every time.  Likewise we don't have separate parties championing the causes of organized labor and LGBT equality.</p>
<p>If we changed the system, so that 35% of the votes would get you about 35% of the seats in the House instead of a big fat zero, we would have those separate parties.  I think that would be a good thing, because there are more than two sides to every interesting issue.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Barrientos</title>
		<link>http://www.chrisweigant.com/2012/03/07/republican-factionalisms-future/#comment-20063</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Barrientos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Mar 2012 15:26:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chrisweigant.com/?p=5306#comment-20063</guid>
		<description>dsws - You&#039;re talking way over my head.  I&#039;ve no clue what you&#039;re saying.

When I mentioned 3 party, I was referring to Repulican, Democrat, + 1 &quot;AE&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>dsws - You're talking way over my head.  I've no clue what you're saying.</p>
<p>When I mentioned 3 party, I was referring to Repulican, Democrat, + 1 "AE".</p>
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		<title>By: dsws</title>
		<link>http://www.chrisweigant.com/2012/03/07/republican-factionalisms-future/#comment-20057</link>
		<dc:creator>dsws</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Mar 2012 05:15:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chrisweigant.com/?p=5306#comment-20057</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s a world of difference between a third-party scheme and a three-party system.  It&#039;s easier to get a multi-party system (which may happen to have three major parties, but doesn&#039;t have to) than a three-party system (which has three parties as its only equilibrium, just as single-seat plurality elections have two parties as their only equilibrium).

There are lots of ways of having multi-party systems.  Parliamentary systems, where you form a government by assembling a majority coalition in the parliament, tend to be multi-party.  My favorite idea for a multi-party system is to simply eliminate geographical districts and let people choose which House seat to vote for.  Any party that can organize a decent registration drive, sufficient to get about 1% of the population to choose a particular seat as their supporters, could get a House seat from California.  In other states the threshold would be higher, but nationally there would be a bunch of parties.

To get a three-party system, you could put two offices on the same ballot.  Each person gets to vote for one candidate, and the top two vote-getters are elected.  You could institutionalize the role of opposition leader, and elect him or her on the same ballot with the president.  Legislators could be elected two to a district, on one ballot.

I favor a one/two/many party system.  &quot;Two&quot; comes from the status quo, and &quot;many&quot; from a proportional scheme.  For the &quot;one&quot; component, there&#039;s a chamber that acts as a sort of permanent constitutional convention and you need a slight supermajority to get elected as a full member.  Members would be elected nation-wide.  Only one party at a time can aspire to such supermajority status.  Usually this role would be vacant: the standing convention would mostly have limited members, who can only introduce bills, vote either way in committee, and vote no (or abstain) on final passage.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There's a world of difference between a third-party scheme and a three-party system.  It's easier to get a multi-party system (which may happen to have three major parties, but doesn't have to) than a three-party system (which has three parties as its only equilibrium, just as single-seat plurality elections have two parties as their only equilibrium).</p>
<p>There are lots of ways of having multi-party systems.  Parliamentary systems, where you form a government by assembling a majority coalition in the parliament, tend to be multi-party.  My favorite idea for a multi-party system is to simply eliminate geographical districts and let people choose which House seat to vote for.  Any party that can organize a decent registration drive, sufficient to get about 1% of the population to choose a particular seat as their supporters, could get a House seat from California.  In other states the threshold would be higher, but nationally there would be a bunch of parties.</p>
<p>To get a three-party system, you could put two offices on the same ballot.  Each person gets to vote for one candidate, and the top two vote-getters are elected.  You could institutionalize the role of opposition leader, and elect him or her on the same ballot with the president.  Legislators could be elected two to a district, on one ballot.</p>
<p>I favor a one/two/many party system.  "Two" comes from the status quo, and "many" from a proportional scheme.  For the "one" component, there's a chamber that acts as a sort of permanent constitutional convention and you need a slight supermajority to get elected as a full member.  Members would be elected nation-wide.  Only one party at a time can aspire to such supermajority status.  Usually this role would be vacant: the standing convention would mostly have limited members, who can only introduce bills, vote either way in committee, and vote no (or abstain) on final passage.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Weigant</title>
		<link>http://www.chrisweigant.com/2012/03/07/republican-factionalisms-future/#comment-20052</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Weigant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Mar 2012 01:29:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chrisweigant.com/?p=5306#comment-20052</guid>
		<description>Andrew -

Interestingly enough, I just posted a column on the third-party theme.  Go back to the main page here, and it should be visible now.

-CW</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andrew -</p>
<p>Interestingly enough, I just posted a column on the third-party theme.  Go back to the main page here, and it should be visible now.</p>
<p>-CW</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Barrientos</title>
		<link>http://www.chrisweigant.com/2012/03/07/republican-factionalisms-future/#comment-20051</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Barrientos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Mar 2012 01:01:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chrisweigant.com/?p=5306#comment-20051</guid>
		<description>3) Voter fraud is rampant in Republican election.  You can find it out easily with a google/youtube search.   I will not waste space here with links.

Do you think a 3 party system would be more healthy for Americans?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>3) Voter fraud is rampant in Republican election.  You can find it out easily with a google/youtube search.   I will not waste space here with links.</p>
<p>Do you think a 3 party system would be more healthy for Americans?</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Weigant</title>
		<link>http://www.chrisweigant.com/2012/03/07/republican-factionalisms-future/#comment-20050</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Weigant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Mar 2012 00:35:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chrisweigant.com/?p=5306#comment-20050</guid>
		<description>bob -

Welcome to the site.  See comment [4] above, for info on posting comments.

You raise a good point about Gingrich, but I think if Paul dropped out it wouldn&#039;t matter much, because I think most of his voters would then just stay home on primary day.

Gingrich&#039;s last hope is MS and AL next Tuesday.  I&#039;ve heard rumors that if he doesn&#039;t win at least one of them, he&#039;ll likely drop out.  But then I take such rumors with a grain of salt, because the real question is whether his Las Vegas Sugar Daddy will keep funding his hopeless campaign or not.

It sure would clear the field for a Romney/Santorum race, though.  But you are most likely right about the establishment of the party being pretty OK with the three-way race, and the split vote right now.

-CW</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>bob -</p>
<p>Welcome to the site.  See comment [4] above, for info on posting comments.</p>
<p>You raise a good point about Gingrich, but I think if Paul dropped out it wouldn't matter much, because I think most of his voters would then just stay home on primary day.</p>
<p>Gingrich's last hope is MS and AL next Tuesday.  I've heard rumors that if he doesn't win at least one of them, he'll likely drop out.  But then I take such rumors with a grain of salt, because the real question is whether his Las Vegas Sugar Daddy will keep funding his hopeless campaign or not.</p>
<p>It sure would clear the field for a Romney/Santorum race, though.  But you are most likely right about the establishment of the party being pretty OK with the three-way race, and the split vote right now.</p>
<p>-CW</p>
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		<title>By: bob</title>
		<link>http://www.chrisweigant.com/2012/03/07/republican-factionalisms-future/#comment-20046</link>
		<dc:creator>bob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Mar 2012 23:21:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chrisweigant.com/?p=5306#comment-20046</guid>
		<description>It would be most interesting if Gingrich and Paul dropped out. Santorum would garner the great majority of conservative votes. He would have won Ohio. My guess is that establishment Republicans, as much as they hate the infighting, want to see the right wing splitting the vote thus allowing Romney to limp to the finish line, because Santorum would be crushed in the general election.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It would be most interesting if Gingrich and Paul dropped out. Santorum would garner the great majority of conservative votes. He would have won Ohio. My guess is that establishment Republicans, as much as they hate the infighting, want to see the right wing splitting the vote thus allowing Romney to limp to the finish line, because Santorum would be crushed in the general election.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Weigant</title>
		<link>http://www.chrisweigant.com/2012/03/07/republican-factionalisms-future/#comment-20045</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Weigant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Mar 2012 23:14:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chrisweigant.com/?p=5306#comment-20045</guid>
		<description>Andrew Barrientos -

First off, welcome to the site.  Your first comment was held for moderation, but from now on you&#039;ll be able to post comments instantly -- as long as you don&#039;t post multiple links within a single comment (which is automatically held for moderation to cut down on comment spam).

Now, as to your questions:

1. I think the GOP establishment is not unlike the GOP voters -- they&#039;re behind Romney, but reluctantly.

2. Depends what you mean by inappropriate.  They&#039;ll certainly throw their weight around, as they already did when it looked like Newt had a chance.

3. Nope.  Do tell!

4. Anything is possible.  What I&#039;m going to be watching closely is how the Americans Elect thing plays out.  Will there be a third name on the ballot with enough heft to affect the GOP/Dem race?  Could be, could be... but a lot&#039;s going to depend on who they pick.

Looking past this election, it is possible that a third party rises, but if it truly was a viable major party then (historically, at least), it would be followed by the death of one of the other parties (likely the GOP, in this scenario) -- and then we&#039;d be back to a two-party system, with one change in party name.

-CW</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andrew Barrientos -</p>
<p>First off, welcome to the site.  Your first comment was held for moderation, but from now on you'll be able to post comments instantly -- as long as you don't post multiple links within a single comment (which is automatically held for moderation to cut down on comment spam).</p>
<p>Now, as to your questions:</p>
<p>1. I think the GOP establishment is not unlike the GOP voters -- they're behind Romney, but reluctantly.</p>
<p>2. Depends what you mean by inappropriate.  They'll certainly throw their weight around, as they already did when it looked like Newt had a chance.</p>
<p>3. Nope.  Do tell!</p>
<p>4. Anything is possible.  What I'm going to be watching closely is how the Americans Elect thing plays out.  Will there be a third name on the ballot with enough heft to affect the GOP/Dem race?  Could be, could be... but a lot's going to depend on who they pick.</p>
<p>Looking past this election, it is possible that a third party rises, but if it truly was a viable major party then (historically, at least), it would be followed by the death of one of the other parties (likely the GOP, in this scenario) -- and then we'd be back to a two-party system, with one change in party name.</p>
<p>-CW</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Barrientos</title>
		<link>http://www.chrisweigant.com/2012/03/07/republican-factionalisms-future/#comment-20042</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Barrientos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Mar 2012 20:45:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chrisweigant.com/?p=5306#comment-20042</guid>
		<description>Chris Weigant, I appreciate your analysis.  Would you mind commenting further.                        1) Do you think Establishment GOP has already picked a favorite and is working to get him elected?                                          2) Do you think Establishment GOP will take inappropriate actions to get him elected?           3) Have you read or seen any videos documenting some of the strange happenings by GOP officials at the voting sites?                                   4)Is it possible that 10-15% of Disaffected Republicans and Democrats along with a large majority of Independents will create a &quot;Legitimate 3rd party&quot;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris Weigant, I appreciate your analysis.  Would you mind commenting further.                        1) Do you think Establishment GOP has already picked a favorite and is working to get him elected?                                          2) Do you think Establishment GOP will take inappropriate actions to get him elected?           3) Have you read or seen any videos documenting some of the strange happenings by GOP officials at the voting sites?                                   4)Is it possible that 10-15% of Disaffected Republicans and Democrats along with a large majority of Independents will create a "Legitimate 3rd party"?</p>
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		<title>By: Michale</title>
		<link>http://www.chrisweigant.com/2012/03/07/republican-factionalisms-future/#comment-20031</link>
		<dc:creator>Michale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Mar 2012 12:03:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chrisweigant.com/?p=5306#comment-20031</guid>
		<description>&lt;I&gt;The Republican establishment is radical.&lt;/I&gt;

ANY political &quot;establishment&quot; is radical...

Any attempt to exclusively attribute this to only one Party simply proves it...

Michale.....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>The Republican establishment is radical.</i></p>
<p>ANY political "establishment" is radical...</p>
<p>Any attempt to exclusively attribute this to only one Party simply proves it...</p>
<p>Michale.....</p>
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		<title>By: dsws</title>
		<link>http://www.chrisweigant.com/2012/03/07/republican-factionalisms-future/#comment-20029</link>
		<dc:creator>dsws</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Mar 2012 08:10:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chrisweigant.com/?p=5306#comment-20029</guid>
		<description>If Santorum is nominated and loses, the Party won&#039;t take the message that they need to be (or rather, pretend to be) more moderate.  They&#039;ll take the message that they need to avoid whatever disaster keeps Romney from being nominated, and maybe that they need to focus on different issues.

The Republican establishment is radical.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If Santorum is nominated and loses, the Party won't take the message that they need to be (or rather, pretend to be) more moderate.  They'll take the message that they need to avoid whatever disaster keeps Romney from being nominated, and maybe that they need to focus on different issues.</p>
<p>The Republican establishment is radical.</p>
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