Comments on: Mad As Hell

By: Michale

Michale — Mon, 10 Oct 2011 11:16:41 +0000

I do see a problem, a BIG problem with at least one of the "demands".. USE CONGRESSIONAL AUTHORITY AND OVERSIGHT TO ENSURE APPROPRIATE FEDERAL AGENCIES FULLY INVESTIGATE AND PROSECUTE THE WALL STREET CRIMINALS who clearly broke the law and helped cause the 2008 financial crisis in the following notable cases: (insert list of the most clear cut criminal actions). There is a pretty broad consensus that there is a clear group of people who got away with millions / billions illegally and haven't been brought to justice. Boy would this be long overdue and cathartic for millions of Americans. It would also be a shot across the bow for the financial industry. If you watch the solidly researched and awared winning documentary film "Inside Job" that was narrated by Matt Damon (pretty brave Matt!) and do other research, it wouldn't take long to develop the list. The big problem is many of the people the group wants prosecuted are high level members of the Obama Administration... Michale.....

By: Michale

Michale — Sun, 09 Oct 2011 10:57:07 +0000

Position? That's what the site labels them as. There's a big button right below the text box that says "submit comment". On the main page under each article, it says stuff like 'permalink | comments (12)'. I completely agree with the "comments" label for our post.. The "position" was referring to "commentaries" vs "articles"... :D "It all depends what the meaning of 'is' is." -President Clinton :D Michale.....

By: Michale

Michale — Sun, 09 Oct 2011 07:14:10 +0000

Here is the real list of demands (proposed draft) that they're working on:

http://occupywallst.org/forum/proposed-list-of-demands-please-help-editadd-so-th/

Looks like those "demands" could have come straight from Obama's White House or the DNC...

It's funny, but these protesters are supporting the very government that created and supports the very thing they are protesting against...

As such, the protesters don't seem "Mad As Hell"...

More like, "Peeved A Little"... :D

Michale.....

By: Chris Weigant

Chris Weigant — Sat, 08 Oct 2011 19:13:00 +0000

ChrisWeigant [13] -

[Heh] Um, that should be "opinion pieces"... sorry, just a pet peeve of mine.

Heh. Couldn't resist...

-CW

By: Chris Weigant

Chris Weigant — Sat, 08 Oct 2011 19:11:02 +0000

Michale -

Here is the real list of demands (proposed draft) that they're working on:

http://occupywallst.org/forum/proposed-list-of-demands-please-help-editadd-so-th/

None of those seem like a bad idea to me. Some of them even seem do-able. But, taken together as a list, it certainly seems reasonable and well-thought out.

Oh, and I call my writings "columns" and "articles" kind of interchangably. If I stopped and thought about it, I would probably call reportage pieces "articles" and opinion pieves "columns" but I have never stopped and thought about it to that degree before. I don't like "blogs" or "posts" but that's just a personal thing, because I think "articles" and "columns" sounds more journalist-ey.

Comments are comments, but I suppose they could be "posts" as well. Like I said, I've never really examined my use of all these terms under such a microscope as well.

BashiBazouk -

I did see most of "Prohibition" and it was indeed a moving thing. I learned a lot, such as the intertwining of the income tax amendment and Prohibition, and the anti-German wave during WWI that made Prohibition possible (virtually every brewery was owned by a German -- no surprise there, really, when you think about the older beers and brewers: Blatz, Schlitz, Busch, Anheiser, etc.

I thought it was pretty chicken of Ken Burns not to mention the drug war, even at the end, though. There are indeed direct parallels, and they're not that hard to identify, really. Anyway, thought it was a great show.

nypoet22 -

I will check that speech out, thanks. Teddy, FDR, and even Truman speeches are usually always worth reading.

-CW

By: dsws

dsws — Sat, 08 Oct 2011 14:25:39 +0000

By: Michale

Michale — Sat, 08 Oct 2011 07:36:46 +0000

You left out the key fact: to match the situation, CW would have to have been flamed in the MSM for your comment, I haven't noticed any "flaming" in the MSM over the OWSers "demands".... Do you have any cites for this?? I am sincerely curious. and have a note at the top of his article saying that it's your post not his. The mere fact that extra work was done to give the post prominence would negate any claims of "this isn't how we really feel"... If CW didn't agree with the post he would not have gone to the extra trouble to give the post prominence.. (Btw, these things we type are "comments" and his are "articles". I've been calling our replies "comments" correctly, but I've been referring to his as "posts".) Interesting position. I have always referred to CW's posts as "commentaries" and our responses as "comments". In my mind, "articles" are news stories whereas "commentaries" give more of an "opinion-y" intent.. "These guys don't seem very 'Ancient-y' to me." -Lt Col John Sheppard, STARGATE ATLANTIS, Progeny :D Michale....

By: dsws

dsws — Fri, 07 Oct 2011 20:29:51 +0000

Say I make a post here on CW.COM.. Just a regular post like I am making now... But CW takes the post and gives it more prominence. He makes it look like his Commentary with all the bells and whistles and headings and such that his commentaries have.. Now, if he were to do that, what would a reasonable person assume?? You left out the key fact: to match the situation, CW would have to have been flamed in the MSM for your comment, and have a note at the top of his article saying that it's your post not his. (Btw, these things we type are "comments" and his are "articles". I've been calling our replies "comments" correctly, but I've been referring to his as "posts".)

By: BashiBazouk

BashiBazouk — Fri, 07 Oct 2011 15:59:24 +0000

Anyone watch the Ken Burns prohibition on PBS?

Really interesting from a political perspective. Intense politics with a left/right that has little to do with today. Mixed in with some "mad as hell" single issue politics, corruption, unique events happening at just the right moment, and bullying with power to get it all passed. Rebellion against a hated law. All around worth watching...

By: Michale

Michale — Fri, 07 Oct 2011 12:19:33 +0000

That's a good post, NY and a great article..

Teddy's speech fits our current leadership to a tee...

Michale....

By: nypoet22

nypoet22 — Fri, 07 Oct 2011 10:42:31 +0000

my favorite thing i've read on the topic this week is teddy roosevelt's speech in 1910. he didn't really write the speech, but he did deliver it, and the message was powerful. he quotes lincoln and talks about the need for balance between labor and capital, but also puts forth a pretty radical view on how to maintain that balance. try reading the whole thing through, it's pretty enlightening.

http://www.theodore-roosevelt.com/images/research/speeches/trnationalismspeech.pdf

"At many stages in the advance of humanity, this conflict between the men who possess more than they have earned and the men who have earned more than they possess is the central condition of progress. In our day it appears as the struggle of freemen to gain and hold the right of self-government as against the special interests, who twist the methods of free government into machinery for defeating the popular will."

sound familiar?

"The essence of any struggle for healthy liberty has always been, and must always be, to take from some one man or class of men the right to enjoy power, or wealth, or position, or immunity, which has not been earned by service to his or their fellows."

i added emphasis because i think it's super important to distinguish our bill gates' and steve jobs' from our paris hiltons and kenneth lays. ideally those who do more to advance the public good should get more, and those who do less should get less. reading this, i can see why so many people cheered.

By: Michale

Michale — Fri, 07 Oct 2011 10:25:28 +0000

Sign being held by Wall Street protester..

"THE REVOLUTION IS HERD!"

"The problem with rednecks is that we can't keep the dumbest and most ignorant among us OFF the television set!"
-Jeff Foxworthy

Michale.....

By: Michale

Michale — Thu, 06 Oct 2011 23:04:09 +0000

Because the people who write your posts for you (or perhaps I should say, the people whose words you post for them) were already making noise about it. I don't know whether it was good tactics or not, but it's certainly reasonable for OWS to put it out there, to say 'here's what the Mighty Wurlitzer is yapping about, and hey, it's just a forum post same as what you or anyone could post just by registering on any online forum'. I thought about that, but I don't think that's the case. Let me put it into a context we all would understand. Say I make a post here on CW.COM.. Just a regular post like I am making now... But CW takes the post and gives it more prominence. He makes it look like his Commentary with all the bells and whistles and headings and such that his commentaries have.. Now, if he were to do that, what would a reasonable person assume?? A reasonable person would assume that CW not only agrees with my post but also wants to give it more prominence.. A reasonable person would assume that my post is the official position of CW.COM.. That's how I look at that OWSer post. That is more than just some user posting a run of the mill post.. It looks like the admin saw that post and said to themselves, they said, "Self.. That looks like a good list of demands.. I am going to give it prominence..." So, while it's not the bona fide official "DEMANDS" of the OWSers, apparently enough of them feel it's such a good idea as to give it it's own prominence and it's own link... That's my analysis of the issue... Michale.....

By: dsws

dsws — Thu, 06 Oct 2011 22:49:43 +0000

if the OWSers didn't AGREE with such demands, why give them such prominence on their website Because the people who write your posts for you (or perhaps I should say, the people whose words you post for them) were already making noise about it. I don't know whether it was good tactics or not, but it's certainly reasonable for OWS to put it out there, to say 'here's what the Mighty Wurlitzer is yapping about, and hey, it's just a forum post same as what you or anyone could post just by registering on any online forum'.

By: Michale

Michale — Thu, 06 Oct 2011 11:13:38 +0000

The protesters in the Occupy Wall Street movement have been getting criticized for not being focused enough, or not providing a list of demands,

Actually, there IS a list of demands, of a sort..

Of course, the Admin of the OWS Website has stated unequivocally that this isn't an "official" list of demands, that it's just a posting from a single user...

However, if the OWSers didn't AGREE with such demands, why give them such prominence on their website??

On the flip side, I can see WHY the OWSers would want to distance themselves from these demands... They are pretty far off the map... :D

Demand one: Restoration of the living wage. This demand can only be met by ending "Freetrade" by re-imposing trade tariffs on all imported goods entering the American market to level the playing field for domestic family farming and domestic manufacturing as most nations that are dumping cheap products onto the American market have radical wage and environmental regulation advantages. Another policy that must be instituted is raise the minimum wage to twenty dollars an hr.

Demand two: Institute a universal single payer healthcare system. To do this all private insurers must be banned from the healthcare market as their only effect on the health of patients is to take money away from doctors, nurses and hospitals preventing them from doing their jobs and hand that money to wall st. investors.

Demand three: Guaranteed living wage income regardless of employment.

Demand four: Free college education.

Demand five: Begin a fast track process to bring the fossil fuel economy to an end while at the same bringing the alternative energy economy up to energy demand.

Demand six: One trillion dollars in infrastructure (Water, Sewer, Rail, Roads and Bridges and Electrical Grid) spending now.

Demand seven: One trillion dollars in ecological restoration planting forests, reestablishing wetlands and the natural flow of river systems and decommissioning of all of America's nuclear power plants.

Demand eight: Racial and gender equal rights amendment.

Demand nine: Open borders migration. anyone can travel anywhere to work and live.

Demand ten: Bring American elections up to international standards of a paper ballot precinct counted and recounted in front of an independent and party observers system.

Demand eleven: Immediate across the board debt forgiveness for all. Debt forgiveness of sovereign debt, commercial loans, home mortgages, home equity loans, credit card debt, student loans and personal loans now! All debt must be stricken from the "Books." World Bank Loans to all Nations, Bank to Bank Debt and all Bonds and Margin Call Debt in the stock market including all Derivatives or Credit Default Swaps, all 65 trillion dollars of them must also be stricken from the "Books." And I don't mean debt that is in default, I mean all debt on the entire planet period.

Demand twelve: Outlaw all credit reporting agencies.

Demand thirteen: Allow all workers to sign a ballot at any time during a union organizing campaign or at any time that represents their yeah or nay to having a union represent them in collective bargaining or to form a union.

These demands will create so many jobs it will be completely impossible to fill them without an open borders policy.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/proposed-list-of-demands-for-occupy-wall-st-moveme/

Regardless of the inclement, these unofficial demands will be the undoing of the OWS.

Because even if these aren't the "official" demands of the OWS, you can bet that the vast majority of those protesting believe in these demands and accept them as legitimate demands..

Like I said. A bunch of spoiled rich kids who are completely and utterly clueless to how the real world is.

Michale.....

By: Michale

Michale — Thu, 06 Oct 2011 11:02:05 +0000

If one were to have had the power, beforehand, to schedule an "occupy" event on New York City's calendar, one might have chosen late spring to begin, rather than heading into winter (or, to put it another way: how many people are going to stick this out when it starts snowing?). I think you called it dead on CW.. Once it starts being inconvenient or not much fun for the protesters due to inclement weather or sitting in jail, OWS will fizzle and die.. Most of the OWSers are privileged spoiled kids who have chosen this manner of rebellion because they read about it and thought it would be really "kewl"... But soon they will be saying to each other, "Bummer, man. This is just like work! Screw this!" Michale.....

By: dsws

dsws — Thu, 06 Oct 2011 00:42:57 +0000

They didn't exist a few years ago Yes they did. They just didn't have the shiny new brand-name label "Tea Party". They had almost as many people in Congress, too. A massive "wave" election like 2010 has only 85% re-election rate, but that still means that a lot of the new congresscritters are the same as the old congresscritters -- not as in "meet the new boss same as the old boss" but literally, the same individuals.