So, like most registered Republicans, you would have an eye more on electability, rather than on what's best for the country.. You would vote for the Democrat more likely to win, rather than vote for the Democrat that is better qualified to lead this country..

With great respect, isn't that like putting Party before Country??

Michale.....

In a hypothetical general election between two Democrats? It would depend on the opponent. Many have supported the same fiscal catastrophe.

Because Iran has told the US not to...

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.ee159abe0e0b3f7c4e870162182b6233.2c1&show_article=1

dsws,

I saw that, but was too late to get my 2 cents in..

So let me address it here...

I guess what I mean by "support" is, would you vote for Obama.

Let's say the election is today. You have a choice...

Obama
Un-named Democrat

Who would you vote for right now??

Michale.....

FINAL 'FINAL' BATTLE IN LIBYA...
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-08-30/libyan-rebel-leader-jalil-gives-qaddafi-loyalists-until-sept-3-to-submit.html

“In England, if you commit a crime, the police don't have a gun and you don't have a gun. So, if you commit a crime, it's like, 'Stop! Or I'll say stop again!'”
-Robin Williams, LIVE AT THE MET

Michale.....

Nice to see someone else enjoys the intel provided by STRATFOR :D

Michale.....

I trust I'm not the only one who heard that last phrase in the voice of Dr. Evil.

Matt Osborne over at OsborneInk.com has the best overall wrapup of the war

Meanwhile in a nearby universe, Stratfor has ongoing coverage of the war, with Tripoli plunged into a bloodbath of house-to-house fighting and Gadhafi still ruling all the areas that really matter. Ok, I exaggerate. Slightly.

http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/20110829-libya-premature-victory-celebration

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111903352704576536721588294828.html?mod=WSJ_hp_MIDDLENexttoWhatsNewsThird

I don't think the US is going to be welcome at any table in the new Libya government..

Michale.....

Even Ben over at Daily Banter sounds notes of caution....

http://www.thedailybanter.com/tdb/2011/08/not-so-quick-on-libya-.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+typepad%2Fbenfu1%2Ftdb+%28The+Daily+Banter%29

So don't get mad at me when I say that it ain't all that....

Michale.......

{RE Iran}well, for starters, we didn't lose 13000 American dead, 4 trillion dollars in immediate war costs and more than 100000 wounded Americans.

This is true...

But Iran is acquiring nuclear weapons which they will likely use against Israel and other countries in the MidEast, thereby resulting in MILLIONs of dead, and hundreds of trillions of dollars in damage...

Good call, Carter... :^/

To be fair, subsequent Presidents also failed the American people and the world by not dealing properly with Iran...

"You don't fight a junkyard dog with ASPCA rules. What you do is you take the leash off your bigger, meaner dog."
-Senator, THE SEIGE

The US should have given Israel the green light on Iran a long time ago...

Israel knows how do deal with these sorts of situations, even if the US lacks the testicular fortitude to do it...

Michale.....

No??? I seem to remember a big hulaballooo about destroying an aspirin factory...

Regardless, my point still stands..

Any slur, attack, or slam you can make against the Right applies to the Left as well..

Such is the nature of political bias and bigotry...

Michale.....

Newt, Tancredo, Wolfowitz, Feith, Cheney ... All big war hypers, all draft dodgers.

I think you forgot a name or two there..

Biden and Clinton...

you catch my drift ..."

Actually, no, I DON'T catch your drift. Yes, Clinton was a draft dodger. Biden had Asthma (in a similar vein, John Wayne ( the REAL John Wayne, not the fake one that Palin loves) had flat feet.

Tancredo: "Depression"
Cheney: College, College, Grad school, Grad School,..., child
Wolfowitz: college
Feith: college, and a lax draft board

and so on.

Yeah, Clinton was a draft dogdger and he burned his draft card, BFD. He wasn't a chicken hawk.

Daffy has a huge stockpile of WMDs in the form of chemical weapons and nuclear material..

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/08/24/us-libya-nuclear-heinonen-idUSTRE77N1MZ20110824

I have to wonder if Daffy, who has nothing to lose now, would use his WMDs converting Tripoli to a radioactive wasteland...

I know, I know... Worst-Case scenario.....

"Never underestimate a man who has nothing to lose."
-Ice T, SURVIVING THE GAME

The Libya "victory" could go south really fast...

Michale.....

In your response to me, you missed one...

Where's your proof that Libya is NOT likely to go the way of Iran??

I am sure it was just an inadvertent oversight.... :D

Michale.......

Yup. Though you'd also get some folks saying "About time he finally admitted it ..."

Think about the Right too.

Think about how he's been demonized and suddenly he says "I'm really one of you ..."

:)

But I still bet he would have supporters who would say, "OK. So... He's a Republican"

Yup. That sounds about right.

My favorite picture of the earthquake damage ...

:)

Now THAT was funny!! I laughed so loud my wife ran out of the bedroom wondering what the hell was up! :D

I had an interesting thought this morning. What would happen if Obama announced that he switched parties and became a Republican?

It would remind me of that scene in SOUL MAN with C Thomas Howell.. When it was discovered that Howell was really white instead of black, the scene cut to several people saying, "Ahhhh, no wonder..." and "So THAT's why!!" :D

But yer right. The Left would go into galactic spasms.

But I still bet he would have supporters who would say, "OK. So... He's a Republican"....

"OK.. So... She's a dog."
-Bill Murray, GHOSTBUSTERS

:D

Michale......

http://images1.dailykos.com/i/user/3/DC_Devastation.jpeg

:)

I had an interesting thought this morning. What would happen if Obama announced that he switched parties and became a Republican?

Of course this would never happen. But it does make you think about how much people vote and think based on party "brand". It would really mess with a lot of peoples' minds :)

-David

Newt, Tancredo, Wolfowitz, Feith, Cheney ... All big war hypers, all draft dodgers.

I think you forgot a name or two there..

Biden and Clinton...

I am sure I can dig up a few more names from the Left, but I think you get my point..

There isn't a slur, a slam or an attack that you can hurl at the Right that doesn't also apply to the Left..

That is why I enjoy my NPA status so much.. I am free to criticize BOTH Partys because I am not enslaved by ideology or dogma from EITHER Party... :D

Blog Note: For those who like the Box Quote feature that Matt initially used, the attribute is LESS THAN blockquote GREATER THAN.. Don't forget to close it at the end of the quote...

While I like it and I think it looks pretty nifty, it's just too much extra typing.. I'll stick with my tried and true italics :D

Michale.....

For example, why not a Jon Huntsman?

The more I read about Huntsman, the more I like him.. But he has one position that is a deal breaker for me..

If it's Huntsman vs Obama, I will likely stay home...

Michale.....

Of course, since Michale is in no danger of actually going to any of the wars it doesn't matter. Typical. Newt, Tancredo, Wolfowitz, Feith, Cheney ... All big war hypers, all draft dodgers.

Oh I have paid my dues...

I have served in two branches of the US Armed Forces.. US Air Force and US Army. I was an Army MI specialist/analyst during the first Gulf War and have served as an LEO and an FSO for the better part of two decades all over the world...

My bona fides are well established...

And before you ask, I did my time in the Marines '70-'73

I honor you for your service...

Regardless, Carter frak'ed up in Iran.. That has been established as fact..

Obama pretty much frak'ed up in Egypt.. While the jury is still out, Egypt is descending into an Islamist hell hole. All the indicators are there..

Libya?? Did you read their new "Constitution"?? The VERY first Article establishes Islam as the "Religion Of The State" and Sharia as the "Jurisprudence Of The State"...

Now, honestly... How does that NOT sound like Iran??

Michale.....

On another note.. Kudos on the quote box... It makes things a LOT easier to read and reference. Wanna share how you did that?? :D

Never mind, Matt...

I figured it out... :D

Michale.....

Just a wild guess on destination. If you have Google Earth or equivalent:

27 14'25"N 14 39'10"E. Just a little desert oasis with an 11000 ft runway, an underground complex, and some dismantled nuclear facilities.

That's pretty kewl!! :D

Reminds me of a scene in THE EVENT

Michale.....

"How's Iran working out for ya?" well, for starters, we didn't lose 13000 American dead, 4 trillion dollars in immediate war costs and more than 100000 wounded Americans. Of course, since Michale is in no danger of actually going to any of the wars it doesn't matter. Typical. Newt, Tancredo, Wolfowitz, Feith, Cheney ... All big war hypers, all draft dodgers.

And before you ask, I did my time in the Marines '70-'73

Just a wild guess on destination. If you have Google Earth or equivalent:

27 14'25"N 14 39'10"E. Just a little desert oasis with an 11000 ft runway, an underground complex, and some dismantled nuclear facilities.

That's pretty kewl!! :D

Reminds me of a scene in THE EVENT

Michale.....

In your commentaries, I have never seen you condemn Obama for anything..

Obama was always right and it was always the Right's fault, the Tea Party's fault, the Professional Left's fault etc, etc, etc..

You never blamed or condemned Obama for anything. Which is OK, because Obama does the same thing. He never takes responsibility for his screw-ups. He blames everyone and everything else up to and including "bad luck". That's pathetic in an of itself, but let's concentrate on your commentaries.

Do you think that there is ANYTHING in the last couple years that is actually Obama's fault?? Do you think he has messed up anything??

Do you condemn Obama for ANYTHING??

Just curious...

Michale......

My reaction? 5.8? That's not such a big deal... how long did it last? Less than 5 seconds? Out here in CA, an earthquake of that magnitude would merit one day's mention in the news

What was special about this quake was it's range.. It was felt as far north as Toronto and as far south as Atlanta...

As I read it, there hasn't been a quake this big in that area since 1897...

That New York twit was pretty funny... :D

Matt,

War always involves a certain luck factor, but good planners don't depend on luck.

You just don't get it, do you??

According to your savior, THIS WASN'T A WAR!!

If it was a war, then Obama violated the War Powers Act. Setting a very dangerous precedent by doing so. Do you honestly believe that the GOP president in 2014 will bother with the WPA anymore?

And if, according to you, Obama is such a good planner, why does he frack up everything else??

Or is it your contention that the ONLY thing your personal savior can plan well is "war"???

Face it, Matt. Obama got lucky.. REAL lucky.. I doubt you will find anyone here who thinks that Obama actually planned all of this...

On another note.. Kudos on the quote box... It makes things a LOT easier to read and reference. Wanna share how you did that?? :D

Michale.....

That's a whole parade of horse-puckey right there, Chris. War always involves a certain luck factor, but good planners don't depend on luck.

Still kissing Obama's backside, I see, eh?? :D

The marching bulls on my front page? That latter sentence is their poop.

War always involves a certain luck factor, but good planners don't depend on luck. They depend on skill. That is why leaders identify and hone skills in subordinates. Basic NCO training manual.

Just a wild guess on destination. If you have Google Earth or equivalent:

27 14'25"N 14 39'10"E. Just a little desert oasis with an 11000 ft runway, an underground complex, and some dismantled nuclear facilities.

OK, here's some more:

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2011/08/23/earthquake_jokes/index.html

My favorite: "New York earthquakes are better because of our thinner crust"

Heh.

-CW

OK, those were funny, I have to admit.

My reaction? 5.8? That's not such a big deal... how long did it last? Less than 5 seconds? Out here in CA, an earthquake of that magnitude would merit one day's mention in the news...

Heh.

-CW

The GOP won't put up a viable candidate for the same reasons that the Dem Party won't primary Obama.

Too entrenched in Political Dogma and Ideology to do what's right for the COUNTRY, not what's right for the Party...

You want a better candidate?? Then quit settling for less...

It's really that simple..

I highly encourage you to read Tom Clancy's EXECUTIVE ORDERS...

It shows how leadership SHOULD be....

And it COULD be... If the American people demanded it...

It's up to you progressives... Being Party-less, I can't do a thing. I can't even vote in Primarys...

For example, why not a Jon Huntsman? And not just as a Veep?

Are you saying you would vote for Huntsman over Obama???

Michale.....

Correction: "he's the only game in town now"

How is that [the situation in Ohio/Wisconsin/etc] any worse than what the rest of the country is facing?

- More people being laid off in the public sector
- Less investment in industries which would create jobs
- Federal stimulus money (which would have created jobs) turned down
- More cuts (which don't create jobs)
- More of the same policies (deregulation and privatization) which haven't worked in the past
- Much more of a link between Wall St and the government

Instead of trying to convince people to "not vote Obama" maybe you should talk to conservatives about trying to come up with some better candidates or plans. For example, why not a Jon Huntsman? And not just as a Veep?

Or ... why not conservatives who are more flexible and less religious about things like taxes?

Or are you just a dittohead :)?

-David

@comradescott: Evidently the quake occurred on a little known fault line outside of DC called "Bush's Fault". #tcot #p2

@Ben_Howe: As all of DC leaves work at the same time, the United States experiences a brief economic recovery.

:D hehehehehehehehehehe

The first two are hilarious.... :D

Michale.....

But yet, you would still vote Obama, rewarding bad behavior and therefore guaranteeing continuation of the same....

Your leaders have NO INCENTIVE to change because they know progressives will vote party, regardless....

Obama et al have the progressives by the short and curlies and progressives give them absolutely NO incentive to change...

I'd largely agree with that statement. If you look at what conservatives are doing in Ohio, Wisconsin, and other states though, you get an example of what we'd be facing as a country as a whole if say a Romney or a Bachmann were in charge.

How is that any worse than what the rest of the country is facing??

Did you know that, in some places, amongst certain ground, unemployment is as high as 50%!!??

You say that Obama is the best thing going..

I ask, how can anyone possibly be worse??

Michale......

Possibly. Its not a big secret that I'd like to see more progressive policies.

You, of course, want him to be primaried because you want to see him lose and you want a return to conservative rule.

nonetheless, they were the same basic policies.

@nypoet- I'd largely agree with that statement. If you look at what conservatives are doing in Ohio, Wisconsin, and other states though, you get an example of what we'd be facing as a country as a whole if say a Romney or a Bachmann were in charge.

Who here got jolted around in the VA quake, eh?? :D

Michale.....

That should have been said with a smile... :D

Michale.....

Approval down to 38%....

That's Carter Numbers....

Michale.....

Glad yer back! I missed ya!! :D

Are we 100% happy with Obama? No. Does what conservative are offering look any better? No. It actually looks a lot worse.

So, let me ask you this..

Would you support Obama being primary'ed by a better candidate??

Are you a Democrat/Progressive or are you an Obama-Bot???

1. He got bin Laden.

Only because of Bush and HIS policies..

Why do I hate Obama if he is so much like Bush??

Because Obama is a hypocrite...

If he WERE like Bush, if he stood up like a man and said, "Yea, I renditioned terrorists!! Yea, I ordered terrorists tortured!! Deal with it!!!" then you probably wouldn't hear a peep outta me..

But Obama is a two faced lying hypocrite..

He publicly castigates everything about the Bush policies, then turns around and reaps the adulation by USING the Bush policies...

Let me pose the same question to you that I posed to Bashi...

If I told you in the summer of 2006 that in the 2008 Election, you would vote for a president who continued Bush Tax Cuts, kept Gitmo operating, expanded Bush's Rendition and Domestic Surveillance programs and, with NATO, started a bombing campaign in another Mid East country....

What would your reaction have been??

When is it enough, David??

What does Obama have to do to lose your support???

Become a Republican???

Michale.....

i'd say that even in the respects you mentioned, obama continued the bush policies, just somewhat more successfully. nonetheless, they were the same basic policies. don't even get me started on arne duncan and "race to the top..."

Also, Chris and Matt- excellent articles on the country w/ an 'L'

Have been on vacation w/o Internet access (man, was it great) so have missed out on the fun.

I think its pretty safe to say though that many people support Obama because he's the only game in town right now and, at the same time, are working to help convince him and/or others that they would actually do better if they were MORE progressive.

The only alternative conservatives have offered is more trickle down theory and deregulation. Sorry, but that's not doing it for me ...

Are we 100% happy with Obama? No. Does what conservative are offering look any better? No. It actually looks a lot worse.

On the flip side, if Obama is so much like Bush, why do you hate him so much?

1. He got bin Laden.
2. We haven't gotten into any more costly wars like Iraq/Afghanistan. Do you think Bush could have stayed out of Syria?
3. Dictators in both Egypt and Syria (knock on wood) have gone down.

-David

You mean Obama's "policy" of closing Gitmo???

Ending domestic surveillance??

Ending Bush Tax Cuts??

Stopping rendition??

Ending Regime Change and meddling in other countries affairs??

Are these the "policies" you are referring to???

Let me put it another way..

Suppose I told you in the summer of 2006 that in the 2008 Election, you would vote for a president who continued Bush Tax Cuts, kept Gitmo operating, expanded Bush's Rendition and Domestic Surveillance programs and, with NATO, started a bombing campaign in another Mid East country....

You would have told me that I was nucking futz!!! You would have told me that you would never, never, EVER vote for a president that would just be a continuation of Bush..

And yet...... Here we are....

Michale.....

:D

Michale......

No, but three lefts do... :D

So, two wrongs make a right??

Welcome to the Dark Side, Bashi :D

Michale......

Because Operation Ajax was so successful?

Yea, and Bush really didn't start the Iraq war either... :^/

Well, contrary to your assertions, I choose who I vote for president by policy. What they are likely to put forward and how they will vote on what comes before them. None of the republicans have a policy plan I like.

So, you support Obama? Even though he is more Bush than Bush in most principles you hold dear??

Well, more power to ya....

Michale.....

Yea... That worked out SO well for us in Iran...

No reason to think things will be peachy keen wonderful in Libya, eh?? :D

That was sarcasm, in case you missed it..

The start of the bombing was to prevent mass casualties from Libyan air forces, not to change the government.

Sorry, DF.. But you have your facts wrong...

In an open letter issued printed simultaneously in the Washington Post, the Times of London and Le Figaro, the Obama administration, together with the heads of government in France and Great Britain, openly acknowledged that the purpose of the NATO bombing of Libya was regime change, i.e., the forcible expulsion of Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi from power.
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2011/apr2011/liby-a16.shtml

Michale.....

Funny, I thought it was a civil war that the west almost took too long to intervene in...

What would Obama have to do (or not do) to lose your support of his presidency??

Well, contrary to your assertions, I choose who I vote for president by policy. What they are likely to put forward and how they will vote on what comes before them. None of the republicans have a policy plan I like. So to answer your question, a white knight third party candidate would have to come along with both a good policy plan and the poll numbers to prove if I voted for them I would not be placing a de facto vote for the republican...

What happens next should be up to the Libyan population, with a huge interest from countries most involved with Libya. The surrounding Arab countries,Italy and France (http://articles.latimes.com/2011/mar/24/opinion/la-oe-weiner-europe-libya-20110324).

The US has no reason to interfere in the type of government put up by the Libyans. We cannot and should not, remake the world to fit our perception of reality.

I do not think this was a "gamble". A gamble implies a stake in the final result. The start of the bombing was to prevent mass casualties from Libyan air forces, not to change the government. It was a measured response to a specific problem. The only definition of failure would have been the mass murder of Libyan citizens by the Libyan air force. It didn't happen.

Are you sure it's a lead from behind strategy and not a we're in two wars form the previous administration and the house will crucify me if I try to start a third so I will do what I can with as little money as possible strategy?

Obama DID start a third..

Contrary to the "situational" thinking from the Left, if you think that NATO is anything BUT the US, I have a bridge in England I want to sell you.

Obama started a third war. Period

If that is unpalatable to you and the Left, then I suggest ya'all might want to rethink your support for an Obama 2nd term.

Because it's unlikely that this country would survive it.

I'll ask you the same thing I asked dsws...

What would Obama have to do (or not do) to lose your support of his presidency??

Considering that Obama has done much worse than Bush, with regards to principles ya'all CLAIM to hold near and dear, I think it's a fair question..

Michale.....

Are you sure it's a lead from behind strategy and not a we're in two wars form the previous administration and the house will crucify me if I try to start a third so I will do what I can with as little money as possible strategy?

Regime Change is now official US policy...

It's hilarious that it took a Democrat to sell the policy.. :D

Michale.....

Michale.....

Shouldn't ya'all be congratulating NATO and not Obama???

After all, it was NEVER "US Forces" in play, it was always "NATO Forces"...

NOW that victory is close, ya'all want to switch back and make it all about Obama???

One must wonder who you would have blamed if it had all gone south...

Actually, I don't have to wonder.. I know for a fact ya'all would have blamed NATO and praised Obama... :^/

Such is the nature of political demagoguery... It's a fickle mistress....

Michale.....

As a military man, worst-case scenarios are upper-most in my mind, yes.

As they should be in the Commander In Chief's mind as well...

Apparently, Obama is disregarding this sound military policy in favor of blowing more smoke up the American people's arse...

Michale......

That's a whole parade of horse-puckey right there, Chris. War always involves a certain luck factor, but good planners don't depend on luck.

Still kissing Obama's backside, I see, eh?? :D

Do you honestly and truly believe that Obama "planned" this???

Seriously???

Based on what???

Wishful thinking??

If Obama is so good at planning, why is unemployment so high?? Why is the economy still in the toilet??

What are you saying?? Obama "planned" that as well???

There is absolutely NO evidence to support your wish that Obama "planned" this and there are mountains of evidence to support that Obama simply got lucky..

Besides, you act as if Libya is a done deal. If you are the military person you claim to be, you would know that the most dangerous part of any warfare action is the time when victory is closest at hand...

No proof, just Islamophobia.

You DID read the new Libya Constitution, right??

Islam is the official religion. Sharia is the official Law...

Sounds like Iran to me...

Where's your proof that Libya is NOT likely to go the way of Iran??

Michale.....

That's a whole parade of horse-puckey right there, Chris. War always involves a certain luck factor, but good planners don't depend on luck.

"It's clear that Libya will follow the course of Egypt and Iran.. Another Islamist America Hating government.."

No proof, just Islamophobia. What was that about "best-case scenarios"? Because it wounds like someone is dreaming of a worst-case scenario.

He was secretly transported to Iraq and is dug in at Saddam's Spider Hole.. :D

Michale.....

But the fact is, Obama got lucky in Libya...

And THAT is the biggest danger...

Because Obama and Democrats might be thinking, "Hay, this 'Lead From Behind' strategy is pretty frakin' great!. Let's use it in Syria! Hell, let's use it everywhere!!"...

It's funny..

The new government has written a new Constitution. That Constitution established an official language (Arabic), an official religion (Islam) and an official system of jurisprudence (Sharia)...

And ya'all are thinking what a GOOD thing this is??

Hell, Democrats go ape sheet when the US tries to establish English as the official language.. Yet they think it's just fine and dandy for a regime that will be hostile to the US to establish an Islamist government complete with Sharia law....

Weird... Very weird...

[Program Note: It wasn't germane to the theme of this article, but Matt Osborne over at OsborneInk.com has the best overall wrapup of the war (complete with well-detailed maps) from a technical and sociological point of view that I've yet seen. I recommend it for anyone interested in an in-depth look at what the Libyan war was about, and what it all means.]

Fortunately Matt hasn't banned me from READING his posts, just from pointing out when he is wrong... :D

I did read his commentary and I was very impressed. It was quite in depth and showed that Matt did a LOT of research.

His conclusions were a little too much on the rosy side, IMNSHO... He leaned more towards "best case scenario" too often with little evidence to support the claim, other than wishful thinking.

But, all in all, it was a damn fine article. The maps alone were highly impressive..

As I mentioned in a previous comment, the REAL battle for Libya will begin soon...

But with the evidence so far??? It's clear that Libya will follow the course of Egypt and Iran.. Another Islamist America Hating government..

I have to wonder if Obama will accept the responsibility for that?? As far as I recall, Carter never owned up to Iran...

Michale......

If one has never seen it, this would be a good time to watch the film The Wind and the Lion. Loosely based on an historical event, an adventure yarn and a love story is over-arched with a good deal of political commentary (and cartooning), and illustrates just how far the American treatment and understanding of North Africa has not come in a century.

My two favorite guesses are:

On the top floor of the hotel that all the international journalists are trapped in (guaranteeing that he wouldn't be bombed by NATO).

In Sirte, far from Tripoli.

Anyone else want to venture a guess?

-CW

First, OT. At the time, I wrote in a post to the effect that S&P was going to pay for telling the truth. Tonight, the S&P Board removed the CEO, who will be replaced by the CO[-perating]O[-fficer] Of Citibank. No better fox to guard the hen house, at least none who would accept the pay cut. Besides, loose cannons are far too dangerous when the ship is made of paper-mache.

Regarding Libya, if you conclude I need some tin foil for headgear, so be it. But two points. In an earlier post, I referenced a report on the Israeli debkafile website regarding US-NATO concurrence in giving the job to the Russians to get us out of this. Mention was there made of a role in the new government to be given to one the Col.'s sons.

Last Thursday the same site reported a meeting on an island off Tunisia, identifying by the helicopters used, as entailing representatives of the hostile parties, Italy, France and others. By Saturday, that article had been redacted from the site. Sunday, the stunning victory. Monday, Saif al Islam (a son), reported as arrested, showed up at the Rixos Hotel where many of the press are billeted in Tripoli, and took some on a junket. (This latter from Reuters, updated online minutes ago).

The fog of war is very thick in the desert. And it has been since February.

Back soon.

Thanks, I will check it out. I've learned to pay close attention to what you say (and the links you forward) on Libya!

Everyone else -

Go read Matt's article, it is definitely worth your time!

-CW