Unless one happens to be a former High School Geek.. :D

Not me, of course. :D I was on the High School Dive Team.. Actually competed against Greg Louganis..

Not that I was much competition. :D

Michale.....

This brings out really positive memories in a whole lot of people.

I think the standardized test statistics, oddly enough, are compelling as well. Not that I agree with standardized testing, but I'd of guessed charter schools would have been higher more often. If only because I'd think they'd be able to "cherry pick" students.

Here's my second iteration at 3 bullets (ok, 4 bullets). I'm doing the same thing - brainstorming and riffing off your comments so please just take as an iteration. Also, I'm thinking about this as a bit of a sell so trying to focus only on the positive.

What makes our public education system one of the best in the world?

1) Teacher-driven learning puts control in the hands of professional educators, not businessmen or bureaucrats; learning comes first
2) Education is a right and not a privilege (not every country can say this)
3) An education should teach students how to think and lead; not how to follow or recite answers to multiple choice questions
4) Public schools provide stability and community

Then, I'd talk about what some of the early proponents in our country were thinking when they proposed public education. Would have to research this as I know little about it.

Then, I'd add in some personal stories from prominent folks to make it real. People like Barack Obama. How they succeeded and what it meant to them. This is why I added a bullet about "Learning how to think". I was taught very early on that thinking and leading is more important than memorizing and reciting.

Think and Lead (over)
-------------------
Follow and Recite

Then, I'd throw in some of the statistics you mentioned about public schools compared with charter schools. And I'd add the note about Googling embezzlement as it's very powerful and hands on.

Good discussion! You've got me envisioning the Keynote presentation in my head :)

-David

p.s. Hey Michale! Been working on a side project so I have been hiding in a bit of a hole since NYs. Apologies my friend. No hellacious NYs Eve stories (this year) :)

Where ya been hiding!!!?????

Long recuperation from a hellascious New Years Eve party??? :D

Michale.....

ok i'll bullet-point a few ideas that are tossing around in my head, but consider this a disclaimer that it's basically just brainstorming, not a coherent argument:

- public schools take everyone and don't discriminate. (whatever the reason for it, charters reliably end up about 20% more segregated by race, class, disability, etc.)

- on average, public schools frequently perform better on tests than neighboring charters (not that i agree with testing at all, but 37% do better, 46% the same, 17% worse - not a bad record).

- Public schools as an organization don't have any agenda other than educating students. (individuals might, but the organization does not. the same cannot be said for most charters.)

- Public schools protect children from the abuses of wall street and corporations. (public schools are not allowed to cut too many corners to save money, while private companies are not regulated enough to prevent corner-cutting that puts kids at risk for more than just a mediocre education.)

- public schools are answerable to their entire neighborhoods (not just a select few parents and students).

- public schools put learning before profit.

- public schools provide stability. (with very little oversight, charters can easily turn from good to bad and back.)

(also, google charter school embezzlement and see how many hits you get. google public school embezzlement and quite a few of the hits are still about charters.)

~joshua

p.s. I posted this to my Facebook page and here's one of the comments from a teacher friend of mine in Indianapolis:

"Thanks for posting this! Spread the word---when I say these exact same things--people dismiss them because I am a teacher...I have spent the last year reading tons of research and it all says we are really headed the wrong direction ...with these stupid high stakes tests "test" and "growth models"....they are going to lose generations of teachers too, because we ALL feel under attack!"

i could generate three pretty good points any time, but they wouldn't be the right three.

that's a good point. it's been awhile since public schools have had to justify their very existence, and it certainly wouldn't hurt do develop a clear narrative to combat the seductive myth that has been constructed to favor privatization and deregulation of yet another resource. i don't think i can generate three bullet points on the spur of the moment, but i'll definitely give it some thought. thank you.

~joshua

Was trying to say that I think it's hard for the average person to understand the argument FOR public education. Especially when there is so much hype and marketing around the entire "privatization = good" applied to everything argument.

To me it's things like the following:

1. We're a country where education is a right, not a privilege.
2. Under a public system, educators enjoy the freedom to do what they know is best for students as professional educators. Not what is best to meet a profit goal.
3. Resources can be allocated fairly and not based on who has the most money.

Interested in your take. If someone posed the question to you, why should we keep the public school system, how would you respond?

I'm also going to up the ante by asking you to put in the frame of 3 bullet points.

The reason I ask is not out of any sort of disagreement. Rather the contrary. I believe in our public school system. But the opposition has a version of these 3 bullet points that they repeat over and over. And I don't believe the public school system does.

Off the top of my head, here's the bullet points you're fighting against (most of which in one way or another you mentioned in your narrative):

1. Pay for performance; teachers can be hired/fired/and paid based on performance
2. Private schools create competition that will force public schools to improve and reform
3. Private schools give parents choices

This is a powerful narrative that, as you mentioned, forms much of the basis for the movie Waiting for Superman .

I'm not trying to argue whether it's true or not. My personal opinion is that it isn't.

What I believe though is that what public schools need is a better narrative. People need to be reminded of what's so great about public schools. And I play devil's advocate here because I think the three of you might be able to do a better job at this than myself.

Again, truly enjoyed your article. It got me thinking about many things so hope you don't mind the commentary.

Best
David

Just have to say excellent article. Though I was familiar with the consequences of NCLB, I hadn't heard about the Value-Added approach.

I think you hit the nail on the head in terms of who is driving many of the educational policy changes in our country. Again, it's not a one or the other Republicans or Democrats, but both parties at the urging of corporate lobbyists for private education companies. Companies that stand to make a lot of money from changes.

Its hard for the average person to understand

Your name links to "page not found" at http://www.livejournal.com/newyorkpoet instead of to http://newyorkpoet.livejournal.com/.

Yes, I take no credit of my own for the idea, shamelessly cribbed from the university system.

I agree that as described it would be hard to implement in small to medium-sized high schools, and for classes taken by few students even in large high schools. But class size can vary less dramatically too. A small high school might have one teacher do the freshman English class for the whole school, using lecture to teach mechanical skills and survey a broad range of literature, and three teachers doing the sophomore English class with lots of writing and critique, instead of two teachers for each year.

Although I should have, I didn't initially make the connection between CW's introduction and you..

At the risk of being corny, I am truly honored to be on the same blog as someone of your education and caliber... :D

Michale.....

Amen to THAT...

Michale.....

Excellent commentary..

thank you, i think i'm blushing. somehow i think that if the president actually listened to you (or CW, or any of the regulars in this little corner of the web), we'd all probably be a bit better off.

what you're advocating is most similar to the traditional university model, with a large lecture by a lead professor, followed by a smaller recitation section, usually taught by a graduate student. this model might be effective in some high schools, but i'm not sure how it would or could be implemented in a public school setting.

For what it's worth, I did something I have never done before..

I emailed President Obama with the link to this commentary and the note, "This is shameful.."

Maybe the President will read it and, better yet, HEED it...

Michale.....

You can't get much interaction in a class of 30 students. The options are basically lecture, test, time designated for individual in-class work on assignments, and small-group work with minimal teacher involvement. Instead of two such classes, I would rather see a 45-student lecture section and a 15-student discussion section, with each student spending three fourths of their time in lecture and one fourth in discussion.