I must be getting "hysterical" again.. :D

Michale.....

I suppose HIS outburst was caused by Right wing rhetoric too, eh??

Why can't you simply admit what every logical, rational and politically agnostic person already knows..

Left wing rhetoric is just as violent, just as vitriolic and just as nasty as Right wing rhetoric..

It just doesn't get as much air play because the majority of the MSM is in the bag for the Left...

Michale.....

Sorry... I had forgotten about this discussion. Busy weekend..

Ah, the shooting incident? Maybe you've heard about it in the news?

There hasn't been much indication that it was hatred of the government that prompted Loughren's attack..

From reports, the targeting of the Congresswoman stemmed from a 2007 incident..

It's more likely that the impetus was more Loughren's attitudes towards women that prompted the attack, not some fanciful government conspiracy..

And he was a Kerry supporter in '04. And the girl friend you cite has not seen him in 3 years...

Several "girlfriends" have been quoted. One stated information about Loughren that was a couple months old..

Dude. You have 6 unanswered posts in a row. That is hysterical or at least as hysterical as the left you accuse as such.

Prolific does not hysterical make...

Yes. But then I have already stated to what degree.

And yet, you have stated ZERO evidence to back up that belief..

Why is that??

Even now, it's being reported that Loughren was a Left-Wing truther that had a pathological hatred of Bush..

And yet, you STILL think the attack was prompted by the Right???

But credit where credit is due.. At least you don't buy into that total BS about the Palin Map... Would be nice if the likes of Cesca and Osborne and Kos et al be as logical as you in that regard...

http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/nate-beelers-toons/2011/01/birds-blame

Already cited facts. How much extra credit do I get?

Musta missed those facts amidst all your hysteria in a vain attempt to blame the Right. :D

Michale.....

Ah, the shooting incident? Maybe you've heard about it in the news?

No, I cite his girl-friends opinion from a couple weeks ago...

And he was a Kerry supporter in '04. And the girl friend you cite has not seen him in 3 years...

I am not hysterical.

Dude. You have 6 unanswered posts in a row. That is hysterical or at least as hysterical as the left you accuse as such.

And, as per your usual MO, you rush to defend the Hysterical Left with personal and illogical attacks..

Now this is just plain bullshit and you know it.

Do you believe that the political vitriol from the Right had ANY bearing on the Tuscon massacre??

Yes. But then I have already stated to what degree.

Do you believe that Palin's map had ANY bearing on the Tuscon massacre??

No.

You get extra credit if you can answer unequivocally YES or NO.. Citing facts to back up your answer would also be a bonus..

Already cited facts. How much extra credit do I get?

What does his reasons for hating the government have to do with anything??

Was that 9-yr old girl representative of the government???

You cite classmate opinions from 2004.

No, I cite his girl-friends opinion from a couple weeks ago...

But don't let that get in the way of battling the hysterical left by out doing them on the hysterics...

I am not hysterical. I simply list, in a logical and rational fashion, why the Hysterical Left is totally whacked in it's accusations that the Right is responsible for the Tuscon massacre.

And, as per your usual MO, you rush to defend the Hysterical Left with personal and illogical attacks..

Let's lay it out..

Do you believe that the political vitriol from the Right had ANY bearing on the Tuscon massacre??

Do you believe that Palin's map had ANY bearing on the Tuscon massacre??

You get extra credit if you can answer unequivocally YES or NO.. Citing facts to back up your answer would also be a bonus..

Michale.....

Your claims that his rantings against grammar as mind-control indicates a Right Wing responsibility is simply grasping at non-existent straws...

Ah, no.

I said,From what I have read, [Loughner] (corrected for spelling) was quite bipartisan when it came to finding reasons to hate the government. Then gave examples of the gold standard and the mind control through grammar. Both of which have direct links to the right. Both examples are from a youtube video posted by Loughner weeks before the shooting. You cite classmate opinions from 2004.

I listed them as his reasons to hate the government, not blame for the attack. There is a difference.

But don't let that get in the way of battling the hysterical left by out doing them on the hysterics...

Really???

So wrong is only wrong if it has a wide audience??

Just did. Gold standard. Grammar plot. 2 > ZERO.

Really??

What makes that Right Wing?? There isn't any Left Wing loons that rant about government control???

Really???

I point out Loughren's Leftist affiliations, not as blame for the attack, but rather to show the Hysterical Left how completely and utterly whacked their blaming the Right really is...

There is absolutely nothing that indicates that the Right has ANY responsibility in the Tucson attack.

Your claims that his rantings against grammar as mind-control indicates a Right Wing responsibility is simply grasping at non-existent straws...

Loughren was a liberal.. There is evidence to support this fact.

Did that have ANY bearing on his actions?? No evidence supports such a claim..

Just as there is no evidence to support that any Right Wing influences had any bearing on his actions.

"Mom was great. Dad was great. I'm just a shithead."
-Jeff Foxworthy

Anyone who makes the claim that political ideology is somehow to blame for Tucson is trying to use a tragic event to further a partisan agenda.

And that's just sad.. It's pathetic..

Michale....

I think it's a stretch to equate obscure bloggers with national media figures.

Yet you STILL want to tie him to the Right despite NO EVIDENCE to support such a tie-in..

Just did. Gold standard. Grammar plot. 2 > ZERO.

ALL of my posts deal with how the Hysterical Left is trying to make this attack an indictment of the Right.

---

Even more interesting, Loughner was a Kerry supporter in that election..

This guy has Left Wing scumbag written all over him and yet the Hysterical Left is trying to blame the Right..

Really?

However, there is a LOT of evidence of connections between Loughren and the Left...

Really?

Once again, you seem to equate popularity as the problem..

In essence, you are saying that it's OK that the afore mentioned bloggers are the Becks and Limbuaghs and Hannitys of the Left because they don't have the audience that Beck et al have..

Personally, I think that's a cop out..

Wrong is wrong, regardless of whether it has a large audience or not..

I think Limbaugh is on the decline and only included them because you did and I would challenge you to find any post beyond this one where I mentioned Hannity…

Hannity, Beck, Limbaugh are simply examples of the scapegoats the Hysterical Left uses...

From what I have read, Loughren was quite bipartisan when it came to finding reasons to hate the government. His last writings/youtube video mention the gold standard, a hallmark of the libertarian/republican politics of Ron Paul. As well as the whole government control through grammar thing which is true nut job level radical right

Yet the scumbag is cited by people who knew him as a "liberal pot-head"... And he was a Kerry supporter in '04..

Yet you STILL want to tie him to the Right despite NO EVIDENCE to support such a tie-in..

And how many of your posts on the subject are trying to tie it to the left?

Interesting that.

ALL of my posts deal with how the Hysterical Left is trying to make this attack an indictment of the Right.

As I indicated, that IS a Left vs Right issue...

Michale.....

Yet, from our previous discussions, you do seem to think that Beck, Hannity, Limbaugh et al DO "represent a large cross section" of the Right.

Well, nothing close to the inconsistency of your own comments...But I would guess the viewers/listeners of Beck & Palin are 2 to 3, maybe even 4 orders of magnitude greater than the mystery bloggers you cite. I think Limbaugh is on the decline and only included them because you did and I would challenge you to find any post beyond this one where I mentioned Hannity…

There is absolutely ZERO evidence of a connection between Loughren and the Right..

So is "ZERO" the new "FACTS"? Something to trot out when you know you are wrong?

From what I have read, Loughren was quite bipartisan when it came to finding reasons to hate the government. His last writings/youtube video mention the gold standard, a hallmark of the libertarian/republican politics of Ron Paul. As well as the whole government control through grammar thing which is true nut job level radical right.

The attack is NOT a Left vs Right issue. Period.

The sad and pathetic attempts by the Hysterical Left to MAKE it a Left vs Right issue, IS a Left vs Right issue…

And how many of your posts on the subject are trying to tie it to the left?

Interesting that.

Every group political or not has a fringe elements. I think it rare that a group has responsibly for or should be blamed for that fringe.

What I'm not so sure about is that the axe grinding some how represents a large cross section of the left. Or that most on the left are somehow responsible for it.

But yet, you seem to think that Beck and Limbaugh are representative of the Right.

Don't you see the inherent inconsistency in your statements??

On the one hand, you don't think that the OInks and Cescas and Suzies and Marshs of the "media" (blogosphere) "represent a large cross section of the Left"...

Yet, from our previous discussions, you do seem to think that Beck, Hannity, Limbaugh et al DO "represent a large cross section" of the Right.

"Can you explain this, Colonel?? .... The fact is there was no transfer order. Santiago wasn't going anywhere. Isn't that right, Colonel."
-Tom Cruise, A FEW GOOD MEN

:D

I think that since Giffords had stated to colleagues that she thought the political vitriol had gotten bad enough that something bad might happen, the subject is perfectly open to discussion.

Fine.. Let's discuss it.

But any discussion must rest on the EVIDENCE. Not the same political vitriol that Giffords was concerned about.

So, where is the evidence of a link between Loughren's actions and the political vitriol from the Right??

There is absolutely ZERO evidence of a connection between Loughren and the Right..

However, there is a LOT of evidence of connections between Loughren and the Left...

So, what's more likely??

That Loughren was a closet Republican who snuck away and hid in the closet to listen to Limbaugh and had SARAH PALIN tattoed across his chest??

Or is it more likely that political vitriol had NOTHING to do with Loughren's attack and that the Hysterical Left is just epitomizing Rahm's "never let a crisis go to waste" mantra and using this disgusting crime to further the Hysterical Left's attacks on the Right..

Employing Occam's Razor, the answer is clear..

Ironic, though, eh?? The Hysterical Left is employing the EXACT same vitriol that they are castigating the Right over.

The Tucson attack is NOT a Left vs Right issue.

It's a sad story of a scumbag who wanted his 15 minutes of fame and decided to get it by killing innocent people. Loughren didn't know and didn't care whether he killed a Democrat or a Republican. Both Democrats AND Republicans were among his victims..

The attack is NOT a Left vs Right issue. Period.

The sad and pathetic attempts by the Hysterical Left to MAKE it a Left vs Right issue, IS a Left vs Right issue...

Michale.....

I think hat since Giffords had stated to colleagues that she thought the political vitriol had gotten bad enough that something bad might happen, the subject is perfectly open to discussion. I think it will be impossible to prove or disprove that Palin/Limbaugh/Beck were in part indirectly responsible by how they fanned the flames of that vitriol and if the vitriol had influence on the shooter. Whereas their direct responsibility is just plain silly. On the other hand I don't mind their feet being held to the fire over it either.

As to what the bloggers did. I don't follow them in general and got news about the whole thing from Google news and local/national TV news so I never noticed it as bad as you seem to. Some, I would guess, are just following what I would call the William Randolph Hearst school of sensational journalism to increase their page views. Others I'm sure are axe grinding as you say. What I'm not so sure about is that the axe grinding some how represents a large cross section of the left. Or that most on the left are somehow responsible for it.

Every group political or not has a fringe elements. I think it rare that a group has responsibly for or should be blamed for that fringe.

Upper Right Corner. There for all to see...

Plus one of those is a semi-regular poster here..

I think you would have a hard time finding people who did not know who Beck, Limbaugh and Palin are.

Plus if you look at some of the seriously wacko right wing blogs out there it's just as bad.

So, you and I are in complete agreement.

The Left has wackos, just like the Right has wackos..

Strange how the Hysterical Left never seems to see this...

As to that video, most times I follow a google news link and it goes to a conservative blog or newspaper in a mostly conservative city there are similar things written in the comments about Obama. Go to a fairly unmoderated Xbox 360 forum and there will be similar things posted about PS3 users. Go to a star wars blog and similar things will be posted about Star Trek fans.

Being one of those Star Trek fans and having more than a passing knowledge of the genre, I don't think I have EVER witnessed where a Trek fan ever wished an agonizing death on a Star Wars fan..

Further, I do a LOT of repairs on both 360s and PS3s and, as such, have a presence in hundreds of forums for both platforms..

Once again, I have never read any posts where PS3 fans wished death on 360 fans...

Such immaturity seems to be the sole purview of the Hysterical Left.. And, to be fair, the Hysterical Right...

But, since you are here... Lemme ask you..

What do YOU think of the accusations from the "whacked" Left that people like Palin, Beck and Limbaugh are "responsible" for the Tucson massacre??? Accusations that came literally MINUTES after the attack was reported....

Pretty whacked, eh??

Michale......

Michale.....

I'll take your word for it but one major difference is that I and probably most people have never heard of those bloggers. I think you would have a hard time finding people who did not know who Beck, Limbaugh and Palin are. Plus if you look at some of the seriously wacko right wing blogs out there it's just as bad. Just as an aside, to me Oink was by far the best music torrent site to ever exist on the net. When was the name usurped for politics?

As to that video, most times I follow a google news link and it goes to a conservative blog or newspaper in a mostly conservative city there are similar things written in the comments about Obama. Go to a fairly unmoderated Xbox 360 forum and there will be similar things posted about PS3 users. Go to a star wars blog and similar things will be posted about Star Trek fans.

Welcome to humanity.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3s4YfBKs39Y

There are no violent extremists on the Left, are there.. :^/

See what the Cescas and the OInks and the Jamies and the Willises and the Suzies of the Left promote??

How is this any different than what they accuse Beck and Limbaugh of??

Michale.....

Within MINUTES of the Tuscon attack, the Hysterical Left was screaming to high heaven about how Palin shares responsibility for the attack..

After several days of these bogus accusations, Palin responds..

THEN the Hysterical Left and the Leftist MSM starts slamming Palin for "trying to make it all about her"..

Get that??

The Hysterical Left and the Leftist MSM make the Tuscon tragedy about Palin within MINUTES of the attack..

THEN, when she responds to defend herself, the Hysterical Left and Leftist MSM claim that it is PALIN who is trying "to make the story about her"

You can't see it, but I am shaking my head sadly..

All you have to do is look at the titles of the commentaries from the Hysterical Left in the upper right corner of CWs website. You'll see exactly what I am talking about..

It's not that the Hysterical Left has a differing viewpoint that bothers me..

It's the complete and utter moronic way that they present their viewpoint. THAT's at the heart of my disgust for the Hysterical Left...

Michale.....

What did ya'all think of Obama's speech last night?

I think it was pretty close to dead on..

The president struck just the right tone, in effect saying that ALL Americans had to take a good long look in the mirror and assess how we treat and talk to and about our fellow Americans..

I give the speech an A- because he did make a minor flub that will make prosecuting Loughren a little bit harder..

Other than that one ding, it was a damn fine speech.

Michale.....

Another person who knew Laughren has come forward..

"He did not watch TV. He disliked the news. He didn’t listen to political radio. He didn’t take sides. He wasn’t on the left. He wasn’t on the right."

Is there ANY evidence of a connection between Laughren and Palin?

No there is not..

Is there ANY evidence that Laughren even SAW Palin's "bulls eye" map??

No there is not..

Is there ANY evidence of a connection between Laughren and Limbaugh???

No there is not..

Is there ANY evidence that Laughren even LISTENED to Limbaugh??

No there is not..

Is there any evidence that Laughren did NOT listen to Limbaugh??

Yes there is...

"These are the facts of the case. And they are undisputed."
-Captain Jack Ross, A FEW GOOD MEN

And yet, Hysterical Left bloggers like OInk and Cesca STILL insist that the Tucson rampage is the Right's fault...

Like I said... Those bloggers (and many more like them) ARE the Becks and Limbaughs of the Hysterical Left....

Michale.....

Actually, I think that the icons are more of an Archery target than a dart board..

Hence, the only logical conclusion is that Dems think it's perfectly OK to target people with weapons, as long as the weapon is a bow and arrow... :D

Michale.....

Oh com'on dsws..

That's a nit pick that is really not even worth it...

First off, Palin's map targeted DISTRICTS, not people... The DNC map targeted STATES..

"A difference which makes no difference IS no difference..."
Commander Spock, MY ENEMY MY ALLY

As far as the difference in the types of target icons.. One can easily say that Palin's icon is nothing more than a surveyors mark..

However, to nip THAT little nit in the bud....

http://planetmoron.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451c1dc69e20147e169ac3e970b-popup

There's the DCCC map from last year.. This map sports gun-target style bulls-eyes and specifically mentions targeting specific Republicans **BY NAME**... In other words, Democrats targeted PEOPLE....

I don't even have to bother mentioning the Dem Rep who said that FL Gov Scott should be thrown up against a wall and shot.. This same Dem Rep is castigating the Right for "lack of civility".. Sheeya right...

If someone wants to blame vitriolic political attacks for the tragedy, that's fine. It's a totally moronic claim without a SHRED, an IOTA of evidence, but by all means, make the claim..

But to point the finger at one Party over another is pure and unadulterated political bigotry..

I know that, with one or two exceptions, those of us here at CW.COM are above that sort of thing..

It's also very telling back when James J. Lee took hostages at the Discovery, no one on the Right screamed about Al Gore fostering, promoting or inciting ecological terrorism...

"Acts of monstrous criminality stand on their own. They begin and end with the criminals who commit them"
-Sarah Palin

Truer words were never spoken...

Michale....

The RNC talking point about the DNC 04 map is complete BS, though. The Palin map targets individuals with gun-sight crosshairs, and the DNC map targets states with generic concentric circles that could just as well be dart-board targets.

This guy is supposed to just give out the facts of the case in a dispassionate and non-emotional manner.

He is NOT supposed to ad-lib to a political firestorm that has absolutely NOTHING to do with his job..

This guy is a piss-poor cop..

And that's about the gravest and lowest claim I could make about anyone..

Michale.....

The Tucson shooting has absolutely NOTHING to do with Palin, Limbaugh or any alleged hate-mongering from the Right.

According to reports, this Loughner's hatred of Giffords stems from an incident in 2007.. No one, outside of Alaska, had even HEARD Of Palin at the time..

As far as the much-ballyhooed "target map" that Palin used in the 2010 elections. Hysterical Bloggers on the Left have blamed that for Loughner's rampage..

Interestingly enough, it looks a LOT less sinister than the one the DNC used in the 2004 campaign

http://www.verumserum.com/media/2010/03/DLC-Targeting-map.gif

Even more interesting, Loughner was a Kerry supporter in that election..

This guy has Left Wing scumbag written all over him and yet the Hysterical Left is trying to blame the Right..

It's completely and utterly pathetic how bloggers like Cesca et al are trying to profit from this heinous crime..

One hysterical blogger claimed that the Left "has no Beck"...

What those bloggers don't realize is that they ARE the Becks of the Left...

Your commentary is dead on, CW.. Sometimes people do very bad things and the reasons why will never be known..

But it's clear that vitriolic political nastiness had little, if anything, to do with the Tucson shooting.

I only wish those on the Hysterical Left would get SOME semblance of a clue.. But, I guess that if they DID get a clue then they would no longer be hysterical, eh... {{{siiiggghhhh}}}

Michale.....

Well, if we're going to address existential angst, I have to tie it in to our previous conversation:

"...and his ghost... may be heard...
...as you pass by that billibong..."

-CW