An Edsel? Man, that's a low blow.

Heh.

-CW

I agree, the progress of the fundraising drive has been phenomenal so far. Thanks to everyone who has donated precious resources to keep this site alive!

I have just finished updating the donation instruction page, with up-to-date instructions for how to fill out the PayPal page for both PayPal accounts and for debit/credit cards, so check it out, even if you saw it before. Plus, there is a kitten.

Heh.

-CW

The progress on the fund drive is very heartening!

And, I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one who is feeling completely frustrated by the way things have been progressing, otherwise ... :-)

Well, maybe I was a bit snippy, but my reaction to your comment was: "Geez Louise, you're asking the man to say EXACTLY what he just said!!"

Hrrmph.

On the good news side of things, due to a particularly good evening donation-wise, we have CROSSED HALFWAY already! That's right, we are over halfway to our goal for the Fundraising Drive! Woo hoo! Thanks to everyone who has donated already for a spectacularly successful drive so far...

-CW

So, maybe this IS the start of Obama acting like he should..

Time will tell...

Michale.....
117

And, like so many other Obama speeches, it sounds really really pretty..

Call me cynical...

I just can't get excited about Obama's speeches any more...

I WON'T get excited about Obama's speeches anymore.

It's time for Obama to quit speechifying and start acting...

Obama needs to start ACTING like the president we all voted for...

THEN I promise.. I'll get excited again...

But, it seems to me, it's the same old Obama. Talking about Republicans (fellow Americans) as "hostage takers"...

That's utter crap and everyone here knows it. Or at least, they SHOULD know it....

Michale.....
116

Give me a freakin' break. Go read that speech. The whole thing. Obama spends the ENTIRE FREAKIN' SPEECH extolling Americans' ability to be exceptional. The whole thing is a paen to American exceptionality.

You can either believe your own eyes -- reading that speech -- or you can believe someone who tells you "Obama goes out of his way to avoid mentioning anything that might portray America as the exceptional country that it is."

Obama went out of his way to give this speech. The entire speech is EXACTLY what you are asking him to do and say. He is challenging America to CONTINUE being exceptional, and not falling behind. What the heck is so odious to you about that?

In other words, please, peddle that nonsense someplace else.

-CW

Michale.....
115

Actually, the V-2 contributed a lot towards the Space Race as well, odious as that is to admit. We co-opted a bunch of the Nazi rocket scientists to help out with our rocketry efforts, and may not have made it to the moon without their contributions.

Be that as it may, it's probably not the best "rallying cry" from a PR point of view. :D

Obama's trying to shock people

To be perfectly honest, I think that people have grown very weary of the "shocks" that Obama has brought to this country...

As for your last comment, it's not worthy of rejoinder. See my comments in the article on the blind faith of "American exceptionalism," which I have to say I included just for you.

Obama has yet to embrace "American exceptionalism" except when he is busy denigrating it...

This country *IS* exceptional.. Nothing wrong with admitting that...

One more thing. Godwin's Law doesn't really apply here, I think. If you're talking about the V-2, it's pretty hard not to mention Nazi Germany in some way, so it's actually germane to the subject being discussed.

Still it's always wise to put for the caveat, just to pre-empt accusations of "trolling" and the like.. :D

David,

I think it's tough to say that with any certainty unless you've developed mind reading technology. If you have, that would be really cool. Clue us in!

My guess is that Obama goes out of his way to avoid mentioning anything that might portray America as the exceptional country that it is...

Michale.....
114

I think it's tough to say that with any certainty unless you've developed mind reading technology. If you have, that would be really cool. Clue us in!

But I do think it brings up the value of focus groups. If I were the administration, I'd seriously consider hiring folks like yourself to run things by for exactly this type of thing.

If you're talking about the V-2, it's pretty hard not to mention Nazi Germany in some way, so it's actually germane to the subject being discussed.

Now I'm thinking about the book "Gravity's Rainbow". Maybe I shouldn't be included in any focus groups :)

-David

One more thing. Godwin's Law doesn't really apply here, I think. If you're talking about the V-2, it's pretty hard not to mention Nazi Germany in some way, so it's actually germane to the subject being discussed.

-CW

Actually, the V-2 contributed a lot towards the Space Race as well, odious as that is to admit. We co-opted a bunch of the Nazi rocket scientists to help out with our rocketry efforts, and may not have made it to the moon without their contributions.

Footnote: the Smithsonian Air And Space Museum (on the National Mall in D.C.) has a V-2 "buzz bomb" in it.

David -

Yeah, I thought the core idea was workable, but also thought it needed a bit of refining. Well, that's why they roll these things out early, to fine-tune them. Anyone willing to bet me 100 quatloos that this won't be a prominent part of Obama's SOTU? My money's on it being included in the speech.

Michale -

I think you're reading it wrong. Nobody's saying Sputnik was wonderful, or the USSR for that matter. Obama's trying to shock people -- shock them out of their complaisance. So the shock imagery is necessary. What Obama's saying is it was a shock back then to imagine that the Evil Empire (as Reagan put it) was ahead of us in any way. That's the kind of shock Obama is trying to provide. Although, like I said, it's tougher because there is no single shocking Sputnik focusing the public right now. The closest I could come was the Chinese bullet train, but Americans have long sneered at trains, so it doesn't really pack enough punch, I think.

But I do think you're right, Obama could balance it with the positive historical outcome. "We faced a Sputnik moment, and we responded with the Apollo decade!" or something along those lines. I like using "Apollo" as a rejoinder, that's a pretty good idea. Looks towards the future (as Obama is doing -- read the whole speech), and has a rousing amoung of optimism for the can-do American attitude.

But we can't call it an Apollo moment yet, because we haven't responded. Obama can call for an Apollo-like future, but it is more accurate at this point to identify where we're at right now as a Sputnik moment. Saying we're in an "Apollo moment" right now would be delusional, because we simply have not responded yet.

But I see David likes the "Apollo" construction as well. Maybe we're on to something. Maybe someone should send this comment thread to the White House...

Heh.

As for your last comment, it's not worthy of rejoinder. See my comments in the article on the blind faith of "American exceptionalism," which I have to say I included just for you.

-CW

You may need to "reload" the page in your browser to see it, but our holiday fundraising total has been inching upwards on the "thermometer" graph at the top of the page.

A hearty "thanks" to everyone who has donated so far, as we've passed the milestone of 1/3 of our fundraising goal! Woo hoo!

All donations, from the very small to the generous "matching funds" pledges, are extremely welcome.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled comments...

-CW

Simple...

Apollo symbolism emphasizes American exceptionalism...

And Obama must have none of that...

Michale.....

I don't think that's true. Especially if you read the full text of the speech above.

But I do like your idea better. It's a vast improvement. Name it after the American response (Apollo), rather than the trigger (Sputnik).

When I hear Apollo, it brings to mind all of the wonder and amazement of the space program. What we did in an incredibly short amount of time because we summoned the will to do it.

Thanks, Michale! I wouldn't have even thought to go in this direction. This is the beauty of the Internet - you learn something new every day!

This is exactly the type of focus testing I'd like to see progressives do more of.

-David

An Apollo Moment.

A Manhattan Project.

It seems that Obama delights in going out of his way to denigrate and ignore American ingenuity and achievement...

Michale.....
111

What do you think would be more convincing?

Seriously. Not trying to be confrontational, but interested in what would sell you on the idea of innovation.

I think I'd try to reframe our current position as an opportunity rather than something to be afraid of.

"The world is changing. We can either live in fear of it and deny it. Or we can look to lead.

We can either invest in new technologies and new ideas. Or we can be passed by. This is the nature of economics.

Its when times are toughest that smart companies look for new ways to do things and new opportunities. Look at some of the most successful companies out there. (Give examples)

What we can't afford to do is pretend that the world isn't changing."

Something like this. What're your thoughts, Michale? Would you present it differently?

This is an interesting little thought exercise.

-David

"One small nation. Beaten, bankrupt, war-torn. Rose in just a few short years to be one step from global domination."
-Spock, STAR TREK, Patterns Of Force

Michale.....
110

It sounds Russian. It conjures memories of the Cold War. But that will probably be about it.

I hope they're field testing this and gauging how it works. Put it in front of some people and see how they react.

They have the right idea. Looking for a metaphor or a short 3-5 words that describes their vision. But I think it needs a bit of fine tuning!
-David