I mean, seriously. Doesn't your own chosen President deserve the benefit of the doubt??

Michale.....

72

Me personally, it's hard not to find a lot of humor in this whole TSA situation. As a metaphor, I think it's quite emblematic of what our country has become.

So, what's your solution? :D

The kind of peace that BJ is talking about only works if everyone feels and thinks the same..

That is not the world we live in.

Sad, but true..

Michale.....

69

Right??

I wouldn't misconstrue humor as anything other than an attempt to leaven the mood.

Me personally, it's hard not to find a lot of humor in this whole TSA situation. As a metaphor, I think it's quite emblematic of what our country has become.

Cheers
David

Colonel Flagg: I've got to nip this guy in the bud. This sort of behavior is contagious, you know. One guy decides he's not gonna fight anymore, it catches on, and pretty soon you know what we've got?
B.J.: Peace?

That sometimes curtailment of constitutionally protected freedoms IS necessary for Public Safety.

I mean, it's not a huge deal. Such a concept has been widely accepted since the SCOTUS ruling limiting Freedom Of Speech, IE yelling FIRE in a crowded theater example.

So, we're all on the same page so far.

Right??

Michale.....

67

hehehehehehehehehe

Now THAT was funny!!! :D

Michale.....

66

Can we agree that curtailment of constitutionally protected freedoms in the interests of public safety is both logical and desirable?

Can we agree on that much?

Michale.....

65

These new directives are being instituted by a Democratic Party government and President Obama.

The Chosen One...

"Now that's a hint and a half for your ass.
-Eddie Murphy, DELIRIOUS

Michale.....

62

A bunch of people are inconvenienced and/or embarrassed..

But what happens if *I* am right and *YOU* are wrong??

Hundreds, perhaps thousands of innocent people could die..

Color me silly, but it seems to be a no-brainer of a choice...

Michale.....

61

Then you will simply have to stay out of High Security areas such as airports and the like...

a nearly 60 year old person is unlikely to be a threat to take down an airplane on which they are flying

And once word gets around that authorities are ignoring 60 year old people, how long do you think it will take the terrorists to find 60 year old people willing to blow themselves and hundreds of other people up??

Don't think it can happen? I can assure you, over 2 decades in the field have proven to me it CAN happen, it DOES happen.

The minute the good guys start making exceptions, that's then the bad guys start exploiting them..

I say again I resent being treated like a criminal in my own country;

What's the alternative??

Letting the REAL criminals get buy with the tools and the trade to kill hundreds of innocent people??

Is your comfort worth that??

I know that mine isn't...

I adore the Fourth Amendment.

And I simply am ecstatic about the First Amendment.

That doesn't mean I can scream "FIRE!!!" in a crowded theater..

Strange how any Constitutional discussions from the Left seem to ignore that one itty bitty, but oh so relevant, point.. :D

Michale.....

60

Oh where to begin.. :D

I thought all you conservative types were in love with the Constitution;I am a liberal and I adore said document.

The US Constitution is not a suicide pact. It's a document that MUST be tempered with the realities of the world we live in.. The freedoms guaranteed to us by the Constitution are not absolute..

For example, you can't yell FIRE!! in a crowded theater (unless, of course, there IS a fire) even though the US Constitution guarantees you freedom of speech.

Why can't you?? Because the freedom must be tempered with common sense. Exercising this freedom in this manner would create a situation whereas innocent people could be hurt or killed.

Ergo, your rights end where Public Safety begins...

All things being equal, Public Safety ALWAYS trumps The Bill Of Rights...

Always....

Finally I would remind you of what the great Benjamin Franklin said"For those who prefer security above liberty;you deserve neither.

Actually, what ole' Ben said was, "Those who give up an essential liberty for a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

So, let's examine that..

Define "essential" liberty? Is it essential that everyone pass thru airport security un-molested give that such a pass could result in the deaths of hundreds or thousands of innocent people??

Given the possible results, "essential" takes on a whole different meaning..

Is not being inconvenienced such an "essential" liberty given the probable consequences??

I don't think so...

Now, let's look at the phrase "temporary safety".. How do you define "temporary"?? Well, dictionary.com defines it thus:

lasting, existing, serving, or effective for a time only; not permanent: a temporary need; a temporary job.

Now, I don't know about you, but I am thinking that almost 10 years without a successful terrorist attack on US Proper is NOT what Franklin meant when he said "temporary".

If you want complete and unregulated freedoms, then you have to accept the consequences of OTHER people having complete and unregulated freedoms.

And such consequences could be tragic, as we saw on 11 Sep 2001...

Michale......

59

I am sure that software could be written to take the raw data and make a "composite sketch" of the subject, rather than displaying the raw video..

The problem is that there would be people who would complain about THAT as well..

Let's face it. Americans just LOVE to complain about something.. Especially if the government is involved...

I put the question to a bunch of people at a local FL Newspaper blog..

I asked if they would prefer to be searched in this fashion or if they would prefer to be dead..

Many said they would rather be dead...

More power to them. If they want to make such an utterly ridiculous choice, that is their right.

But they DON'T have the right to impose such whacked out priorities on other people..

Michale.....

58

This wasn't the technology from the original inventor, but was mentioned in the story. The idea is similar. In this case, show a stick figure w/ any identified foreign objects.

http://www.newser.com/story/105689/boston-first-to-receive-g-rated-scanners.html

Of course, I'm sure they could find a way to make a stick figure dirty :)

-David

As I do with all JEEPS.....

"Welcome to the party, pal!!!
-John McClane, DIE HARD

Don't worry, you'll get used to it. :D

Even if all flyers and crew fly entirely naked after a full body x-ray, cavity search, and monitored bowel movement, we cannot prevent commercial aircraft from being blown out of the sky. There are simply too many vectors for attack.

True, but there isn't any reason to make it EASY to do...

"The only people flying to the mid east ARE terrorists.. 'Will you be sitting in ARMED or UN-ARMED?? In case of cabin seizure, a small gun will fall from ceiling compartment. Grab it, run to the front of the plane and claim it in the name of allah' "
-Robin Williams, LIVE AT THE MET

Actually a much better answer is realistic and workable security,

Sorry, can't do that. The Left gets all hysterical about profiling..

coupled with the clear understanding that everyone dies from something. There is risk to flying as there is to crossing the street.

I reject this completely..

"Sorry, it's just too damn inconvenient to keep ya'all safe. By flying, you acknowledge and accept that you will likely be killed in a terrorist attack."

What needs to be clearly understood is that a person's life is infinitely more valuable than some arbitrary, subjective and/or situationally dependent "principles"..

Nude scans, as pointed out by the Government Accounting Office and Israeli security experts, will not improve airline security.

It WILL "improve" it. It just won't make it foolproof...

What will "improve" security even more is profiling.. But that's already been shot down...

It will, however, assist in the further harassment of recreational drug users (not a TSA mandate, but a large part of their actual work) and in improperly tracking and seizing cash being carried on commercial aircraft, also unrelated to the TSA mission, but of great value to the Federal Government.

Can't argue with the logic here.. :D Nor can I condemn the TSA for catching more lawbreakers... :D

But it's all really simple... We have 3 choices..

1. Relax all security procedures so that the public is happy and watch airplanes start falling out of the sky..

2. Continue on as we are and the public will eventually get used to it..

3. Phase out aggressive pat downs and scans, while phasing in a rigorous profiling regime that will actually enhance airport security...

I would prefer #3, but I'll settle for #2...

Michale.....

57

Come to think of it, so does this! :D

Michale.....

56

And, for the record, I think that constitutes a "button push".. :D

Michale.....

55

I also included the line, just in case anyone tried to take me seriously:

"Since the American public's willingness to listen to reason and logic is known throughout the world as being second to none..."

Heh. You simply can't read that without identifying it as satire, no matter what your politics. Heh heh.

Having said that, though, I also think the public has the ability to adjust faster than people think to bizarre situations, at times. Anyone who lived through WWII knows we're all capable of radical lifestyle changes when seen as necessary by the public.

The most amusing description of my above scenario is found in Robert A. Heinlein's "The Puppet Masters." The movie was crap, the book is excellent. It's an alien invasion-of-the-body snatchers type of storyline (came out in the 1950s, I believe). The aliens are grey "slugs" which attach themselves to your spine and start controlling humans. To combat this, the public is forced to wear skimpy clothing. When the slugs counter by all sorts of sneaky means, "Operation Sun Tan" begins, and the free parts of America (those not taken over by the aliens) go nudist. Like I said, it's an interesting scenario....

-CW

I think in reality it is time to repeal the ill named Patriot Act.

And replace it with.... what???

Shirley, you don't want to give Terrorists free reign??

As an aside, that joke just misses something when typed out. :D

"The threat is real. I repeat, the threat is verified and it is real."
-Government Flunky, UNDER SEIGE

Michale.....

54

Somehow, I just knew you'd be the one to spot the Ripley quote. I threw in a quote from the original "A Modest Proposal" too, for the literary set to spot.

I also threw the Ripley quote in just in case anyone accused me of being serious here. Because the full quote is a marvelous example of "overkill"... which is exactly what the situation called for, but Ripley was the one with the cojones to point it out:

"I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure."

:-)

-CW

Got a link?? I don't doubt you, but I would like to read up on it..

Michale.....

53

It sounded brilliant. TSA wanted nothing to do with it 5 years ago.

-David

I know you meant this tongue in cheek, but there is a certain reality to this.

Liquid explosives can be secreted into the fibers of clothing. Fortunately most of these do give off a distinctive odor that can be detected thru conventional sniffer technology.

But not all. Plus there are masking agents available to thwart sniffer technology.

The hardest part is not the explosives, but rather the detonator..

A good security method is simply to render all passengers unconscious for the duration of the flight..

Even that is not fool proof as you have have a human bomb with explosives AND detonators surgically implanted with a timer...

This whole problem DOES have an easy, safe and 99.99% effective solution.

Follow the Israeli model.

There is a reason why El Al is the safest airline on the planet.

But NOOOOOOOOOOO Gods forbid we might actually hurt a terrorists' feelings by profiling...

The blame for our current predicament lies utterly and completely at the feet of the Left due to their illogical and irrational intransigence against profiling..

Michale.....

48

I would dispute this..

In all claims of sexual assault, battery or simple assault, two elements are missing.

Legality and Intent..

To quote the learnéd philosopher Ellen Ripley, "It's the only way to be sure."

Don't tease me!! :D Kudos on the movie quote..

But in your tongue in cheek commentary, you hit upon the one thing, the very thing that really pisses me off about this whole issue...

Everyone screams and whines and cries about this and everyone is saying, "there has to be a better way!"...

But NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON has come up with any better way...

Except for you, of course. :D Well, me too..

I have suggested a long time ago, we need those X-Ray Scanners from TOTAL RECALL. Then NO ONE can complain about any porn or nekkid-ness...

And yer dead on balls accurate about the hypocrisy of all this..

The ones who are screaming the loudest about the searches and the nekkid scanners would be the ones screaming the loudest when a plane is blown from the sky...

It will be interesting to see if the government bends on this.. I'm sure the Obama administration will cave like the political animal it is.

That's what I liked about Bush. HE would have said, "This is the way it's going to be. Saving yer ass, whether you like it or not. Deal with it."

Michale.....

46

Actually a much better answer is realistic and workable security, instead of security theater, coupled with the clear understanding that everyone dies from something. There is risk to flying as there is to crossing the street.

Nude scans, as pointed out by the Government Accounting Office and Israeli security experts, will not improve airline security.

It will, however, assist in the further harassment of recreational drug users (not a TSA mandate, but a large part of their actual work) and in improperly tracking and seizing cash being carried on commercial aircraft, also unrelated to the TSA mission, but of great value to the Federal Government.

...Stan (fully clothed!)