People are angry about not enough jobs being generated as the economy recovers. And people are blaming the party in power.

What I don't hear from people is, boy, those Republicans sure have some great ideas.

Perhaps not.. But what you ARE hearing, what the American people said with the mid-term shellacking is that the GOP ideas are better than the DP ideas..

Personally, I think that if there were a 3rd button on election day that read "Eff you both Republicans and Democrats!" that this button would have won the election by the greatest margin in the history of elections.

Most likely... :D

Liz,

But, I am hoping that Michale's computer goes out of commission for a bit ...

I'm joking! Keep 'em coming, Michale... :)

I might be buying Mrs CW a new car for Xmas!! hehehehehehehehe

Michale.....

35

p.s. Liz- are you sure? A matching donation for every comment Michale makes? :) He doesn't appear to be holding back.

Well, I did make a stipulation ... a stipulation which appears to have been publically thrown out the window! What is Michale up to now ... forty something??? Oh, well ... as you say, it's all for a good cause.

But, I am hoping that Michale's computer goes out of commission for a bit ...

I'm joking! Keep 'em coming, Michale... :)

I'm just

I don't think any of us are denying that Republicans didn't win in 2010, my friend.

But why they won? Look to the exit polls.

People are angry about not enough jobs being generated as the economy recovers. And people are blaming the party in power.

What I don't hear from people is, boy, those Republicans sure have some great ideas.

Personally, I think that if there were a 3rd button on election day that read "Eff you both Republicans and Democrats!" that this button would have won the election by the greatest margin in the history of elections.

Cheers
-David

p.s. Liz- are you sure? A matching donation for every comment Michale makes? :) He doesn't appear to be holding back.

(You know I'm kidding folks. This is good fun for a good cause.)

jerome answered: re:Do you approve or disapprove of Barack Obama's performance as president?...

jerome answered: re:Tell us how you think President Barack Obama has handled the economic crisis so far. What's he done right? And what's he gotten wrong?...

Ya'all are basically pulling a Pelosi..

Complete denial of reality even after it reaches out and Gibbs-smacks ya'all upside the head.. :D

Michale.....

27

... there's an op-ed by Warren Buffett that you REALLY need to read. Don't have time to scare up a link, just Google "Warren Buffett" and "Uncle Sam" and you'll see it. You have been waiting for this for a long time, so it WILL be worth the effort to hunt it out.

Thanks for that 'Dear Uncle Sam' letter heads up. It was a refreshing read.

Now, all that is needed to shut me up would be a comprehensive article singing the praises and expounding upon the efforts of a certain beleagured and much maligned treasury secretary who has been working tirelessly on behalf of Main Street America.

Be sure and let me know if and when you happen across a lengthy piece like that ... :)

Actually, I believe what I believe because of the facts, not despite or without regard for them. I thought you knew that. :(

And, while it is quite admirable to be open to considering all of the possible outcomes, it’s prudent to acknowledge relative probabilities, too.

As for the reality of things ... clearly, we might as well live in parallel universes given our apparent divergent perspectives on the political reality of the Obama/Biden administration. Of course, I say that with all appropriate love and affection. :)

How did you sneak that in!!??? :D

Four, Michale -- DADT repeal is favored (most recent poll I've seen) by a THREE-TO-ONE margin by the American people. So who is pushing an unpopular agenda, and who is "speaking for the American people" in this instance, hmmm?

Yes, DADT repeal is favored 3-1. I (personally) think it's more important to wait for the December report, but that's just me. I am sure most Americans don't have that level of interest in the issue.

But, like I said to David, if one cheery picks the issues of the DP agenda, one can find a few here and there that Americans will agree with..

But, sadly for the Democrats, the DADT issue is the exception that proves the rule...

I can name another issue that would probably sit well with the American people. The DREAM Act...

If the Democrats were smart, they would hold DADT and DREAM in reserve and push those issues AFTER the GOP takes control, rather than wasting them on the Lame Duck session...

But then again, if Democrats were smart, they wouldn't have just had their arses handed to them in the last election... :D

Michale.....

26

I first off loved the duel of opposing data;proving once again the truth of the axiom"There are lies,damn lies,and statistics."The only numbers I have ever put any faith in are the ones printed in theDaily Racing Formall else is subject to a jaundiced eye.I think the best example would be the Nevada Senate race;the polls up to the election showed the obtuse Angle heading to victory by 6 or 7 points;the result was Mr.Reid by 5;it is my firm conviction that the polllsters were doing their polling in every church parking lot in Nevada;there is no other reasonable explanation.
Finally for all the Nancy Naysayers I leave you with this she has more huevos than any Republican male in the field.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/21/magazine/21fob-q4-t.html

So, yer gonna believe what you choose to believe regardless of the facts.. :D

Well, I admire your tenacity and your honesty. It's why I like you so much...

Me?? I tend to go with the reality of things. I readily concede that things may be just as Bashi hopes they will be.

It's entirely possible that you and he are right, that it's all a Grand Illusion. That Obama and the Democrats are right and pure in everything they do.

But, it's ALSO possible that I am right (again) and that Obama and the Democrats will crash and burn even worse in 2012 than they did in 2010.

The difference here is I acknowledge that both outcomes are possible.

Ya'all refuse to even consider the latter possibility...

But I luv ya'all anyways.. :D

Michale.....

25

But, let me put a hypothetical to you. Let's say that things go as I predict and 2012 makes 2010 look like nothing. Will you still maintain that the voters are stoopid...er.. uninformed..

Yes I will!

Or would you concede the possibility that the voters are right and it's you who is mistaken..

No I wouldn't!

Exactly which "fact" are you disputing?? And, if you are going to dispute it, please provide some facts of your own...

Further, you still have yet to explain how Obama and the Democrats can bring the Independents and NPAs back into their camp by furthering the Leftist agenda..

Economic recovery CAN'T happen while the size of government increases exponentially..

It's simply not possible...

Therefore, the economic recovery that you base your opinion on won't happen as long as Democrats and Obama push the far Left agenda..

Ergo, there is nothing in the next two years that could possibly happen (sans natural or "man made" (that STILL cracks me up :D) disasters) that would give Independents or NPAs any reason to think that Obama and Democrats can properly lead this country.

Conclusion: If Obama wants to be re-elected and Democrats want to regain/increase their majority, they are going to have to do things that appeal to the Independents and NPAs of this country..

It's simple logic.

Now, I'll ask again..

If you have any FACTS that dispute this, by all means, please share...

Because, the facts as they exist in the here and now show a completely different outcome than the one you are hoping for.

Many of the arguments you make were the same ones made BEFORE the mid-term elections..

Guess what? Those arguments proved to be totally and utterly false..

What makes you think 2012 will be any different??

Michale.....

24

Well, it's nice to know that your use of "fact" has not gotten any better or more accurate.

The first thing you have wrong is that everyone to the left of Atilla the Hun has a homogeneous view. Hint: they don't. Stop trying to put words in to everyone mouth in order to further your argument, it's silly.

Independents are not a party or homogeneous bunch either. They swing left or right for a multitude of different reasons. But in the end I think if the economy and jobs are improving, Obama has a good chance to get those votes. In September 2008, before the election I saw a Warren Buffet interview. His opinion was that if the government jumped in and worked to improve things we could recover in as little as two years. If the government did nothing the economy would recover naturally in about 5 years maybe a little more. He thought aggressive government action was the way to go as what was spent helping the economy recover would be less than what would be lost if the recession deepened and lasted longer. With the most obstructionist minority party in the history of the senate doing some blocking, I think the two years has been extended out to three or four years, which would put serious recovery at right around the spring/summer before the 2012 elections. Yup, Obama's chances are looking up...

You accuse the left of being delusional, which very well may be true but no more than your hate of Obama has made you...

As are mine. This is the most seats the GOP has picked up since the 1930s...

Go ahead. Minimize it all you like.. As I said above, denial is not just a river in Egypt..

But the fact is, this recent election was a referendum on the policies of Obama and the Democrats. Just like the election of Scott Brown and the GOP governors and over and over again..

The American people have spoken loud and clear that they do not like the agenda of the Democratic Party.

Democrats pursue that rejected agenda at their own peril..

Do you HONESTLY think that 2012 will be any better for Democrats???

What do you base that on?? Oh wait.. Let me guess...

HOPE. :D

Michale.....

23

Of course, that should read:

Obama and the Democrats simply CANNOT win without Independents and NPAs.. This is fact.

Michale.....

22

Sorry, Bashi, but you are incorrect..

The GOP turned over more seats to their side than any other time since the 1930s... I believe the Net Gain stands at 62 right now with about a half dozen seats still undecided..

The turn-over was the second highest in US history..

You can deny the facts all you want.. But that doesn't make them any less factual..

I also think Obama's chances in 2012 are quite good

What do you base that on??

Seriously... Anyone who think Obama has a good chance of being elected.. What do you base that on??

The American people want change and they are not going to get it from the Republican house.

.....you hope.. :D

They (and you) almost complete ignored the Republicans in the senate playing obstructionists...

And you completely ignored Democrats playing obstructionists when the GOP is in power..

Such is the nature of partisan politics.. The difference is that I recognize it in BOTH Partys and ya'all only complain about it when the GOP does it. Ya'all think it is fully justified when the DP does it..

But here's the thing. Obama has massively lost the Independents and the NPAs.

This is FACT...

Now, you want Obama and the remaining Dems to push the far Left Democratic Party agenda..

And you HONESTLY believe that the Independents and the NPAs will come swarming to the Democratic Party afterwards??

Seriously???

Here are the facts..

Obama and the Democrats simply CANNOT win with Independents and NPAs.. This is fact.

Obama and the Democrats cannot swing Independents and NPAs to their side by pushing their extreme Left agenda. This is fact.

So, the only POSSIBLE way for Obama to win re-election and the only POSSIBLE way for Democrats to not lose even MORE seats in Congress is to tack right and tack right fast...

If there is a flaw in my logic, I would LOVE for someone to point it out...

I mean that in all seriousness..

Michale.....

21

One, editing posts ain't going to happen any time soon, as it is programmatically a tough change to make. Sorry about that. But I think I fixed everyone's tags, for now...

Two, the 2010 midterms had a lot to do with the state of the economy. Don't forget to factor that in, when making rash 2012 predictions, everyone.

Three, for Elizabeth, there's an op-ed by Warren Buffett that you REALLY need to read. Don't have time to scare up a link, just Google "Warren Buffett" and "Uncle Sam" and you'll see it. You have been waiting for this for a long time, so it WILL be worth the effort to hunt it out.

Four, Michale -- DADT repeal is favored (most recent poll I've seen) by a THREE-TO-ONE margin by the American people. So who is pushing an unpopular agenda, and who is "speaking for the American people" in this instance, hmmm?

Gotta run, I'll answer more comments later, I promise.

-CW

A good chunk of voters couldn't tell you what this administration's policies are if their very own lives depended on it. That is the sad truth of the matter.

For you to be right, that would mean that the vast majority of voters have been fooled on a scale unprecedented in human history...

OR

The vast majority of voters completely understand what the Democrats have done to this country and they don't like it.

Employing Occam's Razor, the latter option is the most likely..

Time will tell which one it is... But, given the history of the last year, where time after time the voters rejected the Democrat agenda, I think the answer is self-evident.

But, let me put a hypothetical to you.

Let's say that things go as I predict and 2012 makes 2010 look like nothing.

Will you still maintain that the voters are stoopid...er.. uninformed..

Or would you concede the possibility that the voters are right and it's you who is mistaken..

Michale.....

20pd

Just like 2010 made 1994 look like a picnic...

+10 seats in the house and -2 seats and failure to take the senate over 1994 is a HUGE victory over 1994 in your book?

What happens in this lame duck session will be almost completely forgotten in two years they might as well get as much done as possible.

I also think Obama's chances in 2012 are quite good and will depend mostly on who the Republicans can up with to run against him. The American people want change and they are not going to get it from the Republican house. Do you really think they will blame Obama for the failure of the other party they voted for to bring change? They (and you) almost complete ignored the Republicans in the senate playing obstructionists...

A good chunk of voters couldn't tell you what this administration's policies are if their very own lives depended on it. That is the sad truth of the matter.

For this to be accurate, the GOP incumbents would have had to lose as many seats, proportionally, as Democrats lost.

The facts show that this did not happen.

Regardless of whether or not ya'all want to admit it, the Mid-Terms were abut the policies of Obama and the Democrats.

The American public overwhelmingly, with every political decision/election of the last year, stated that they don't want these policies.

If Democrats continue to ignore the American people, 2012 will make 2010 look like a picnic...

Just like 2010 made 1994 look like a picnic...

I am at a loss to understand why this simple concept will not be grasped.

Do you honestly believe that the American people are behind the Democratic Party?? After the "shellacking" that the DP just got??

I guess denial is NOT just a river in Egypt, eh?? :D

Michale....

19

About the only thing [the exit polls] seem to show is that people are unhappy with the economy and they want something to change. With the Dems in power, they took the hit.

This is a perfect example of folks voting against their own best interests.

The exit polls indicate that voters were inclined to put back into power those who were most responsible for the economic mess we are in and to kick out those who are desperately trying to fix that mess.

Of course, as you would agree, the Obama/Biden administration have done precious little to dissuade voters from engaging in this sort of self-destructive behavior. If the exit polls showed nothing else, they have amply demonstrated that Obama/Biden have been responsible for one of the worst communication strategies and public education campaigns in the history of the world.

You mean if I talk about policy and leave out all the stuff about how he's a socialist anti-God liberal Muslim hell-bent on destroying this country? :)

Ok, ok. It's just too much fun to say that.

But to be fair, I have a hard time articulating what Obama's agenda is. Why? Because I think he could do a better job telling us what it is.

I think part of this is because his leadership style is more bottom-up than top-down. By this I mean, he likes to hear from all points of view and then chart a course.

To try to understand what went on in the elections, I'd look to the exit polls. These polls don't show Republicans as more popular than Democrats. About the only thing they seem to show is that people are unhappy with the economy and they want something to change. With the Dems in power, they took the hit.

Cheers
David

Many voters were not well informed about the issues and what this administration has been doing. I'm fairly certain that most could not even articulate what the Obama/Biden/Geithner agenda is. So, there's that.

That might explain a small modest gain by the GOP over the Dems.

But that wouldn't explain the tidal wave that the mid-terms was.

I suspect that people are a lot more informed than ya give them credit for.

That WOULD explain the Tidal Wave. :D

Michale

18

That will probably be about a weeks worth! hehehehehehehe

My cheque book is at the ready!

How else can one explain the results of the Mid Terms??

Many voters were not well informed about the issues and what this administration has been doing. I'm fairly certain that most could not even articulate what the Obama/Biden/Geithner agenda is. So, there's that.

And, on top of that, many voters have extremely short memories. Which makes it easy for them to vote against their own best interests, as they are often wont to do.

Of course, California voters provided the exception to prove that long-standing rule. :)

Hay now! Let's keep things above the belt!! :D

Michale

17

I am literally betting the farm that the demise of the duck is premature;I believe that DADT is dead;after all is said we are talking about 10% of the population.I believe some sort of "compromise"will be worked out as to tax cuts and unemployment;yes Michale the politicians are venal but not stupid.They are going to need taxpayers to pay for the extension of the war in Afghanistan.Every day I am sure that I made the right decision in not having children;I now think we are a nation of incompetent British.I think with that last statement that will assure a healthy dialogue.:)

Isn't it a bit audacious to assume that the Republican agenda is the agenda of the American people?

Did you just miss the last election??

If you give people the actual details and talk to folks about these things, people tend to agree with a lot of what Democrats are doing.

You mean, if you cheery pick the few good items and try to bury and suppress all the crap, then yes. People will tend to agree with what the Democrats are doing.

But the problem with that approach is that the American people have caught on to that sort of propaganda and are not buying what the Democrats are selling.

How else can one explain the results of the Mid Terms??

Michale....

16

Keep those amusing comments coming!

Amusing?? :D Consider what CW said above. Obama is unlikely to have ANY legislative successes over the next two years..

Barring any natural or "man-made" disaster, Obama is not going to have the opportunity to shine..

Given this, I can't see how anyone expects Obama to win a re-election.

Also, consider the fact that, for Obama to win re-election, he is going to have to woo back Independents and NPAs to his camp. And that group is not only growing, but also it has the "FOOL ME ONCE" attitude about Obama.

So, Obama will have to do some pretty amazing things to woo back Independents and NPAs. Amazing things that are sure to royally piss off his base.

It's a perfect Lose-Lose for Obama. If he caters to the Independents and NPAs, he loses his base. If he caters to his base, he loses the Independents and NPAs.

Obama can't win re-election unless he has BOTH in his camp. I don't see how it's going to be possible for Obama to achieve this.

I'm going to match your pledge up to 200 comments. :)

That will probably be about a weeks worth! hehehehehehehe

Michale.....

15

Isn't it a bit audacious to assume that the Republican agenda is the agenda of the American people?

I think there's lots in the Democratic agenda that's pretty popular with Americans: improving the economy, tax cuts for the middle class, regulations on the banking industry, protecting social security, improving health care legislation, etc.

If you give people the actual details and talk to folks about these things, people tend to agree with a lot of what Democrats are doing.

The inevitability of Obama being a 1-term'er is approaching certainty.

Even better. Nothing to lose!

Keep those amusing comments coming! I'm going to match your pledge up to 200 comments. :)

Sorry, CW, but I think yer dreamin' here. :D

The inevitability of Obama being a 1-term'er is approaching certainty.

Michale.....

14

But, then again, we ARE talking about greedy politicians who are utterly and completely clueless on their jobs..

Their job is to do the will of the American people, NOT push their unpopular agenda.

Oh well, it will just make things that much easier for the GOP in 2012..

Michale....

12

...Stan