I know you weren't looking to put him down. But I'm hard-pressed to think of a bigger turnout for any D.C. event. Maybe a Vietnam war rally, at some point. But as aerial-view attendance goes, that was one of the biggest turnouts my eyeballs have seen. A sea of people, shoulder-to-shoulder, on both sides of the pool and extending that far back beyond it? That's multi-hundreds of thousands.

I remember the chairs. Pics are online, Chris. I'll go dig some up. You'll see that Beck's crowd — which was shoulder-to-shoulder — covered the same area as MLK's event.

Just wanted to say, I wasn't trying to put Beck down in any way, I actually said it was a big crowd, by DC standards. Not huge, but medium-big. And that it was an impressive turnout. Anybody that can get 100K+ folks out is doing pretty good in DC, which sees rallies and marches and events with some mighty tiny crowds, at times. One thing to keep in mind is Beck himself filed his permit for 300K, so anything bigger than that should have totally spilled out into adjoining areas. But, like I said, it was a decent turnout, that's for sure. I think there's going to be another one of these on 9/12, don't know if Beck's behind it or the Tea Parties. That one will be all political (this one couldn't be, due to tax laws, as it was raising money for a charity). So we'll see how many turn up for that one.

-CW

I seriously doubt MLK would have shown up for Beck's rally, as Beck said on Fox on Sunday that he "didn't agree" with the entire economic aspect of MLK's agenda, which was an enormous part of what he was trying to do.

I mean, do you listen to yourself sometimes?

Chris1962 -

What estimates are given for the IHADream speech? Haven't heard any. Interesting thing about that was (if memory serves) the audience for MLK was actually in chairs. Yep, they set up thousands of folding chairs for folks. Don't know if everyone got a seat, though, I'd have to see some pictures, especially of the edges. I don't know what having chairs would do to crowd density, might raise it or might lower it. But check the photo you posted, and look for the amount of green in the crowd areas. If you can see more green, the crowd's lighter. If you can barely see any green, the crowd's tight. Totally green areas are usually those where either security barricades are set up, or (more likely) have no line-of-sight to the stage, or access to loudspeakers or video screens (picture yourself on the ground, walking around). Anyway, just curious if you've got a photo of the MLK rally and any crowd estimates.

-CW

I think the more embarrassing question for Sharpton and the Left in general is, "Which rally would Dr Martin Luther King be more inclined to attend?"

I think with the patriotism and inclusion that Becks rally had in abundance and the vehemence and divisive rhetoric that was the staple at Sharpton's rally, it's clear that MLK would have been more likely to attend Beck's rally..

Ouch.. That's GOTTA hurt... :D

Michale.....

Odd, since the crowd was just as large as Martin Luther King's turnout in the 60's, covering the same area at the mall. 'D

President Obama's top education official urged government employees to attend a rally that the Rev. Al Sharpton organized to counter a larger conservative event on the Mall.
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/local/Education-secretary-urged-his-employees-to-go-to-Sharpton_s-rally-651280-101839293.html#ixzz0y8cpjOYY

Michale.....

I'm not saying you don't have a valid point about appearances, mind you. But I am saying you're wrong that it's never happened before. Because it most certainly has. There's nothing new under the sun in politics, in other words.

Fair enough.. I don't mind agreeing that it has happened before...

As long as we agree it's pathetic, then we're good.. :D

Michale.....

Took a look at your photo -- that's a very nice shot of the crowd, just wanted to say that. Someone stood in a very long line to get to the top of the Washington Monument to take that photo. After having seen it, I still stand by my estimate, though.

-CW

GOP Takes Unprecedented 10-Point Lead on Generic Ballot
http://www.gallup.com/poll/142718/GOP-Unprecedented-Lead-Generic-Ballot.aspx

Rasmussen's been showing this size lead for awhile now. I'm surprised it's showing up on Gallups RV's so soon.

When comparing photos, remember there are two parts to the Mall. The Mall itself, between the Capitol and the Wash. Mon., and then the Reflecting Pool part. I don't think 500,000 people could even fit in the RP part -- there just isn't enough room. Check a map of DC to see what I'm talking about.

Anyway, I stand by my off-the-cuff figuring. Around 100,000, possibly as great as 250K, but probably closer to 100K. Last time around, I guessed 75K, and the organizers were claiming 2 million, which is just laughable. This is why the Park Police gave up crowd estimating, because nobody's ever happy (they gave up after they pointed out that there weren't a million men at the Million Man march, which I actually agree with -- maybe half a million, maybe 750K, but not a million).

-CW

I don't know how to put this politely, so I'll just say it. Your memory needs refreshing. Actually, that was fairly polite, now that I think about it.

Look into the period 1980-1982 for some economic data. Then compare to 2009-now.

Here's an excerpt from Nancy Reagan's Wikipedia page:

"The new china, White House renovations, expensive clothing, and her attendance at the wedding of Charles and Diana, Prince and Princess of Wales, gave her an aura of being "out of touch" with the American people during an economic recession. This and her taste for splendor inspired the derogatory nickname "Queen Nancy"."

I'm not saying you don't have a valid point about appearances, mind you. But I am saying you're wrong that it's never happened before. Because it most certainly has. There's nothing new under the sun in politics, in other words.

-CW

LOL. Well, I guess 87,000 turned out for the Million Man March and Martin Luther King's speech, in that case. Because Beck's event is just as stuffed on both sides of the mall, and beyond, as either of those two event were.

I can only imagine what time of day the CBS picture was taken. 9:00 AM, by any chance? 'D

How so???

I don't remember it as bad..

Granted, I was overseas a lot, but I think I would have remembered if things were as bad back then as it is now...

CBS paid someone to photograph and count the crowd.

Yea, but CBS also said that they had papers the reflected badly on Bush's National Guard years.. :D

I probably wouldn't believe CBS if they reported that water is wet and the sky is blue.. :D

Michale.....

Actually, under Reagan, the economy was just as bad, if not worse.

Chris1962 -

CBS paid someone to photograph and count the crowd. They came up with 87,000. That's a far cry from a half a million.

-CW

Because the Left is dedicated to projecting their own downfalls onto Righties? What do I win?

And not one arrest.....

Why is it that the rallies from the Left are all about violence and the rallies from the Right come across as a neighborhood barbecue???

Michale......

It's not the number of vacation days that is the point...

It's the extravagance of the Obama Lifestyle that is COMPLETELY at odds with the message that Obama wants to send..

Michale.....

http://i866.photobucket.com/albums/ab223/Chris11962/RESTORINGHONORcrowd.png

I think we're talking more like 500,000. Minimum.

Especially when the Left writes off Obama's golf days as work days.. :D

Tell ya what... Let's compare the number of Golf Days for Obama with the number of Vacation Days for Bush.. :D

Michale.....

I love how Bush's WORK DAYS at his home AND Camp David, with cabinet members and military figures, are counted as "vacation days" by the Left.

About that, it's really funny..

The hysterical Left was up in arms about how it was "sacrilegious" that Beck would do his schtick on the same day at the same place where MLK did his famous, "I HAVE A DREAM" speech..

These same hystericals, though, don't see ANY problem with having a Cordoba Mosque a couple blocks from the site of the worst terrorist attack on US soil committed by Islamic Terrorists.

I mean, honestly. Even if the hysterical Left DOESN'T view Ground Zero as "sacred" ground, you would think they would at least UNDERSTAND how someone could...

But logical and rational thinking is not in the make-up of the hysterical Left. To be fair, neither is it part of the hysterical Right, so......

Michale.....

At this point in his term, Obama's been on vacation for 80 days.

And golfing every other day. :D

But that's not my point..

Obama has said time and time again that Americans must tighten their belts and forgo certain pleasures, make sacrifices... Yet, they take lavish vacations, jet setting to Spain and have his office with a, no doubt, very expensive make-over.

From the White House china Nancy demanded, to the new 747 Air Force One (and Two -- pricey items, indeed), please don't give me all the "I'm shocked!" and "never before in history" stuff now.

But NONE of that was done during the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression. NONE of that was done by Presidents who make it a point almost every day that Americans need to tighten their belts and make sacrifices...

So, with respect, it's not really a fair comparison...

Seriously... With Obama's constant words about tightening one's belt and making sacrifices etc etc etc... It just boggles the mind that the Obamas would be so totally and utterly ignorant as to how Americans are viewing this..

I won't even bother mentioning that if it was a GOP President, the Left would be howling for blood.. :D

To be fair, I know YOU wouldn't.. But you have to admit that the nearly entirety of the Left WOULD be...

NYPoet,

hmm, might have had something to do with the higher taxes they would have had to pay had they kept it there.

OK.. Good.. So we agree that businesses are allowed to make decisions about their money based on financial interests and not what's good for the country.

So, in the here and now, since it is better for their bottom line to hold onto the money until Obama et al are finished wrecking the economy and things REALLY start to improve, it's logical for those businesses to hold onto their money.

and to be fair, some of the modest tax increases that led to a stronger economy in the 90's were passed by bush senior, which in my mind was a brave and principled stand against the tax-alarmist wing of his own party.

Good point...

Michale.....

seems like the rich didn't put it in their pockets during the Clinton years, eh? :D

hmm, might have had something to do with the higher taxes they would have had to pay had they kept it there.

and to be fair, some of the modest tax increases that led to a stronger economy in the 90's were passed by bush senior, which in my mind was a brave and principled stand against the tax-alarmist wing of his own party.

Oh, Pu-LEEZE.

At this point in his term, Obama's been on vacation for 80 days. At this point in Bush's first term, he had been on vacation a whopping 220 days. That's almost a 3-to-1 ratio. Ronald Reagan spent more on "the presidency" than anyone since, is my guess. From the White House china Nancy demanded, to the new 747 Air Force One (and Two -- pricey items, indeed), please don't give me all the "I'm shocked!" and "never before in history" stuff now. Didn't Obama cancel a new helicopter Marine Corps One because it would have cost too much? Like I said, Puh-leeze. If the man needs new curtains after a year and a half in office, I don't begrudge him those curtains.

To temper this, I raise a subject I raised last year (if memory serves). To whit: Tea Party rally attendence. Last year, outlandish claims led me to address the subject in either a column or here in the comments. People were claiming "1-2 million" people showed up, which was absolute horsefeathers. I estimated the crowd at around 75,000, which I thought was fair.

Beck's rally, on the other hand, was a lot bigger. I heard him claim "300,000 low end" and "650,000" high end, which I truly think is optimistic. Now, the other end of the Mall, which houses the Lincoln Memorial and the Reflecting Pool (from the LM to the Washington Monument), is a lot shorter than The Mall section from the WM to the Capitol -- by about half. But it is much harder to tell exactly how many people are there (than from shots of The Mall section), because of two reasons -- the RP divides the whole area, and occupies the center ground; and there are two lines of trees (on each side) which make overhead or even aerial photography tough (to get a clear shot of the crowd). The third, more minor, issue is "crowd pack," or how closely everyone is sitting/standing.

But, having said all of that, from the photos I've seen so far (and I admit I haven't seen a definitive overhead shot yet), it looks to me like that crowd is at least 100K, and possibly as large as 250K. That's a lot of people. That's a medium-large demonstration, by any measure.

So, to be scrupulously fair, I have to say, the Beck rally had a pretty good turnout. 100-250K is nothing to sneeze at, even in the eternally-hard-to-impress DC.

-CW

What the HELL is Obama thinking???

First his wife goes on a "LET THEM EAT CAKE" Jet Set tour of Spain...

NOW, while the Obama's vacation in Posh and Style in Martha's Vineyard, Obama's office is getting a face-lift....

Jeezus H Christ!!

How can ANYONE **NOT** catch the stench of "royalty" about the Obamas and their sense of entitlement and their "DO AS I SAY NOT AS WE DO" mentality???

For someone who had such a firm handle on the "pulse" of the people during the campaign, Obama is making some pretty moronic and bone-headed mistakes...

Surely I am not the only one that sees this, eh?? I mean, forget partisanship and taking sides and what have you..

Surely ya'all aren't going to defend this, eh???

Michale.....

Things were bad under the GOP.

Things are much MUCH worse under the DP...

THAT is what voters are taking into the voting booths with them..

Michale...

{{cough}} Clinton {{cough}} tax cuts {{cough cough}} super rich {{{cough cough}}}

Seems like the rich didn't put it in their pockets during the Clinton years, eh? :D

Michale.....

reagan said that if you cut taxes for the rich, they'll spend it to create jobs and grow the economy. thirty years of evidence says that when you cut taxes for the rich, they put it in their pockets and let the economy fend for itself.

Why don't you just make your username here a clickable link back to your website ... that way you don't have to bother yourself with all of those shameful plugs. :)

With RINO's and conservative sell-outs representing their own interests instead of the people back home, Tea Partiers have plenty of reason to be infuriated. That's the whole reason they're cleaning house. And it would seem they have a lot of Republican voters behind them, and a lot of incumbents getting their conservative acts together. Those seats belong to "we, the people," to fill as we see fit, and it's high time somebody reminded politicians of that. I think the Tea Partiers are doing a spectacular job of it.

I've barely begun to hear about it, so I don't know where all this punditry is presumably coming from. Maybe one has to be tuned in at just the right time. 'D

And if Nancy Pelosi gives it that publicity for free, how can that be a bad thing? If the idea is superior, then Americans will resoundingly support it. If the idea stinks, then there will be a different result. So what's to lose?

ROFL. The scenario you describe sounds like a classic 24-hour news cycle:

Republicans: We'd like to bring this bill to the floor.
Pelosi: No.
Katie Couric: And now a look at the weekend weather...

I think the Republicans would need a decent amount of floor time to properly present the plan to the public and (here's a novel thought) allow them to study, absorb, discuss, and approve it. And I don't see that happening 'til after January, when Speaker Pelosi is no longer. 'D

So, are Democrats girding their loins for the fight,

"Uh huh.. hu...huh... He said 'loins'.. uh huh huh huh."
-Beavis

The top two answers, almost by an order of magnitude, were the following:

Being too quick to bargain away the strongest and best part of legislation.

This illustrates perfectly, the problem I have with Political Parties and their ...er... "followers"...

Many of the choices you gave for that poll have the COUNTRY's interests at stake..

But the most popular choices are the ones that are based on the agenda of the PARTY....

Thereby proving, once again, that the majority care about Party before Country...

Talk about your {{{{{sigh}}}}} moment... :(

Tax cuts for billionaires, or deficit reduction?

Do you know how many Americans will choke on their drinks when they hear Democrats attempting to be "Deficit Warriors"???

I mean, seriously... Democrats fighting for lowering the deficit??? After fighting tooth and nail, fighting the AMERICAN PEOPLE to raise the deficit to unheard of heights!??

NOW they want to fight to LOWER it???

I mean, com'on.. Many Americans may have been born at night, but it wasn't LAST night..

This will be seen as the sad political election year gimmick that it is...

American Voters won't fall for it. They may be stoopid. But they ain't THAT stoopid...

Clinton actually raised taxes

The Clinton years were a fluke, due the dot.coms.. You really can't take ANYTHING from the Clinton years and apply it accurately to the here and now.

Business has lots of money right now

Yes they do. And it's THEIR money.. They are holding onto it because they aren't sure how bad Obama and Geinther are going to frak up the economy..

You want business to release some of that money into the economy?? Get the Obama administration to put some sanity back into play instead of this insane spend and spend and spend some more plan..

Com'on People.. I realize it's fun to be PollyAnna, but seriously..

The ONE question that voters face this election is simple..

"Are we better off NOW than we were under Republicans?"

And the undeniable fact is, the answer is NO... Not by a long shot..

This is why Democrats will lose and lose big this election..

Anyone wanna place some bets?? :D

Michale.....

But if Ryan's ideas are the greatest thing since sliced bread (as many rightwing pundits have been saying for months), then all it needs is a little publicity. And if Nancy Pelosi gives it that publicity for free, how can that be a bad thing? If the idea is superior, then Americans will resoundingly support it. If the idea stinks, then there will be a different result. So what's to lose?

Where are the courage of your convictions? Bring it to a vote!

-CW

Let's get everyone on record, how's that? Bring it to a vote!

I think you'd be hard-pressed to find many Americans who've even heard of Paul Ryan, much less his road map proposal. I think a vote would be a tad premature for legislation that proposes such huge changes. I think he's a real visionary, though. I like his ideas a whole helluva lot more than the bloated, disfunctional, Big Bro government we've got going on now.

Come to think of it, you didn't forget about him at all ... at least, not subconsciously!

The title of this weeks FTP harkens back to a very important speech Biden gave just before the big election ... the 'Augean Stables' speech, as I will forever affectionately refer to it.

Perhaps you might find a way to make up for this significant omission next week. :)

On second thought, you might want to save that for a Tuesday or Thursday column - that way I avoid a lot of HP frustration.

Hey, you know who I forgot this week? Joe Biden. He deserves at least an Honorable Mention this week for showing some fire in the belly. I totally forgot about this when writing today's column, but was just reminded of it while watching Washington Week on PBS...

Mea culpa, Joe.

-CW

Where is the historical and empirical evidence that would support the argument that extending the Bush tax cuts to the top two percent of the wealthiest Americans and to the top three percent of American small businesses will spur the economy?

Answer: There is no such evidence.

Secretary Geithner spoke earlier this month on tax and fiscal policy at the Center for American Progress. His address will be of great interest to all those who are not familiar with the current debate about what should happen to the Bush tax cuts, scheduled to expire this year.

As part of this event at CAP, there was also a healthy, if completely unfair, debate with a center-right guy about the way forward that was both very instructive and amusing. Oh, I kid the center-right guys. :)

Seriously, though, any Democrat making an appearance on the Sunday talk shows for the rest of this year would also do themselves a big favour by paying particular attention to all of the sound arguments Geithner makes here ...

http://www.c-span.org/Watch/Media/2010/08/04/HP/A/36679/Treasury+Secretary+Geithner+on+Tax+and+Fiscal+Policy.aspx

So you'd be on board with bringing Ryan's budget to a vote? It does all of that, by rationing Medicare via vouchers. Think it'll get many votes from Republicans? I don't. Last I looked, I think it had like 13 or 14 cosponsors....

Let's get everyone on record, how's that? Bring it to a vote!

-CW

Sure ya can, if you'd like to get this economy moving again. Just slash a bunch of federal programs, starting with HCR.