"Be wary of the benefits of hindsight and be skeptical of the capacity for foresight." ... US Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner.

You know what that quote reminds me of? Especially in the context of who said it and why??

"IGNORE THAT MAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN!!!"

Michale32086

A vacation from politics. We could all do with two weeks off a year. 'D

Liz!!! I'm kidding!!! You had said something about feeling sorry for him, and feeling somebody had to defend him, and it reminded me of a wounded pup. I'm shocked by the level of offense you've taken. To me, he gets a look on his face like a wounded puppy every time he gets yelled at by Congress. I thought we had chuckled about that on the HuffPo board and was seeking to remind you of it.

I don't share your admiration for Timothy Geithner. Far from it. I remember him as one of Clinton's economic team members, all of whom I hold personally responsible for having recklessly bamboozled Congress into deciding not to regulate OTC derivatives, based on their assurances that the first near-meltdown had been nothing more than some kind of quirky little anomaly. They, more than anyone in the country at the time, knew it wasn't, yet nevertheless fought hard to have the CFTC stripped of its regulatory authority, so as not to disrupt the swingin' economic boom. (Personally, I think behind that decision was also an effort to help keep Clinton in office, whose only saving grace at that time had been the booming economy.)

And because of that reckless victory of theirs, the derivatives market was able to continue operating in complete secrecy, same as before, with no oversight whatsoever, until it had finally grown into a $600 TRILLION time bomb, by '08. That was the point at which the entire global economy nearly collapsed. And had Clinton's team not succeeded in thwarting regulation — and driving out of office the CFTC chairperson who trying to get the market regulated — that second near-meltdown would not have occurred.

As for stopping the collapse, I also recall Geithner having put together a scheme, with his boss Berneke, to save Bear Stearns, but which backfired, instead, and ended up sealing Stearns's demise. Again, I was far from impressed with the financial fire-fighting extraordinaire.

And so here we all are today (facing a double-dip recession, hello), with Geithner now on Obama's team and in the throes of conducting damage control, personally working the phones with the goal of somehow convincing Big Business (which is presently sitting on $1.8T in cash, patiently waiting for a decent business atmosphere to present itself) that Obama is not anti-business. A little late for that, in my personal opinion, but that's Timothy Geithner's new challenge; one at which I fully expect him to fail miserably.

While I'm happy to hear that your 401K is looking healthier these days, Liz, I took a hit in 2008 that makes me physically nauseas to think about. So not only do I indeed fail to appreciate Geithner's public service to our great country, I personally feel he belongs behind bars. On what charge, I don't know, as I don't believe gross incompetence and reckless endangerment are prosecutable offenses. But as for the future of the global economy, I continue to perceive him as a menace, a threat, and as incompetent as the day is long.

If I'm missing something brilliant about this man, I'm all ears, Liz. But if you're going to take that level of offense over a reference to him as a pup — like I had personally insulted a family member — perhaps we shouldn't pursue this discussion and look for something else to gab about. Lord knows this administration has certainly given us plenty of subjects to choose from. 'D

Not wanting to gang up on Liz here, but I would also dispute the statement that the economy is in "full-fledged recovery.

Hey, not to worry - I can take it! :)

Oh, here's a new favourite quote I'd like to share with you ...

"Be wary of the benefits of hindsight and be skeptical of the capacity for foresight." ... US Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner.

Words to live by, if you ask me.

I'm afraid that if you want to have a civil discussion with me here about what the treasury secretary has achieved over the course of the last couple of years and more, then you will have to show a little more respect for people than demonstrated by your comment #24.

Besides, have we not covered a lot of this ground already, in another time and place? Is your medium term memory really so short that you have forgotten where we were in the fall of 2008? Are your powers of observation so limited that you cannot see the substantial progress that has been made - thanks, in no small part, to the efforts of Secretary Geithner, a public servant who you would so effortlessly demean?

I'm sorry, CB but I have officially run out of time for that sort of nonsense.

A

Not wanting to gang up on Liz here, but I would also dispute the statement that the economy is in "full-fledged recovery".

That *might* have been true a couple months ago... But the latest numbers out show that we're back on a downward spiral with the real possibility of a double-dip recession.

And the latest projections are that things are going to get much worse in the months leading up to the mid-terms.

I don't have to spell out for anyone what THAT means....

Michale.....

Fast-forward to today. The economy is in a full-fledged recovery

Wait, wait. Whoa... LOL. Exactly what did that little Geithner pup do that was so extraordinary? 'D

Think back to the fall of 2008 when the entire financial system was teetering on the edge of an abyss. Check that ... think back to the fall of 2008 when the economy was in free-fall and spinning full into the abyss. That is not hyperbole. But, it is something that already seems to have been forgotten by most.

Enter one Timothy Geithner, financial fire-fighter extraordinaire.

Fast-forward to today. The economy is in a full-fledged recovery, my retirement savings are back to where they used to be a year and half ago plus a modestly healthy increase and on a positive trend.

Is everything coming up roses? Absolutely, positively unequivocally NOT! But, neither is the economy tanking at a frightening rate.

That's what I call a good start to a tremendous success story, thanks to the leadership and decisive action by the beleaguered treasury secretary. But, alas, the praise - not to mention the thanks of a grateful nation - will come, as per usual, in another lifetime.

It's always fun chatting with you, too. :)

As for the treasury secretary ... it's not loyalty. In fact, I didn't know who Geithner was before he was nominated as treasury secretary. It's just appreciation for a job well done. Besides, somebody has to defend him - he's taking fire from all sides, all the time and mostly from people who don't know the first thing about him or what he's been doing for the last couple of years.

And, I haven't given up on bringing you into the fold - consider yourself forewarned! :)

Fortunately, I had just arrived back in Hamburg after a brief jaunt to Berlin when Germany won their quarter-final game.

The streets in Hamburg were mayhem - car horns blasting from all directions and German flags of all shapes and sizes flying everywhere. On the ride back to my hotel, my taxi driver had one hand out the window waving his flag and the other on the wheel. I was just hoping we wouldn't kill anybody on the way!

It was spectacular all around, needless to say.

Chris1962 has entered the stadium. 'D

On the topic of "The Party of 'No'": Repubicans are saying "no" for good reason. The Tea Partiers are perched to "Bennett" them if they help Obama get his agenda through. They didn't send representatives to Washington to have them represent the other side. And the Republicans are listening. Here's a great example of it, right at the beginning of this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqver_bf4Po&feature=related

We have?

I think we've spent quite a bit of time debating. But maybe that's just me and because I like you and think it's fun to debate.

I probably shouldn't have used such a broad brush..

But there have been more than few instances where there has been... uh... some expression of frustrations, to put it kindly.. :D

Michale.....

So glad you made it to Hamburg! The volcano has not been in the news much of late so I'm guessing it has quieted down.

Were the Germans upset about their World Cup loss? Or, were you there before then? For the record, I think they had a great run this year.

Someday I hope to spend some serious time cavorting about Europe so I have to say I'm a bit jealous :).

Cheers
David

Could you give us one example of legislation where Obama has not compromised and taken a moderate path?

He seems to be always trying to compromise (though I'm not sure what good this does him). It looks like this to me: Republicans propose a far right solution, Obama proposes a middle of the road compromise to win Republican support, Republicans say "he's not willing to take us seriously". Repeat.

I can list countless Obama concessions to conservatives. But I can't think of any Republican compromises. If you know of any, feel free to list them.

Republicans seem to be staking everything on generating anti-Obama sentiment. And hoping for big wins in the election.

The "party of no" ... *sigh*

ya'all have stated that it's because of this attitude of mine that ya'all are less inclined to debate the issues..

We have?

I think we've spent quite a bit of time debating. But maybe that's just me and because I like you and think it's fun to debate.

Cheers
David

You know me.. I follow Patrick Swayze's ROADHOUSE advice on being nice..

"You be nice. Until it's time NOT to be nice."

:D

Michale.....

Somehow I'm not surprised that you and Chris1962 are getting along famously. I've had some fun conversations with him, too ... as you might imagine. :)

This is the only Banter Wire blog where you'll find me. But, I hope you're being nice. :)

Call me an optimist (no really, go ahead. It's OK.. :D) but I honestly believe that Republicans WOULD be more inclined to help if Obama and the Democrats would actually take seriously the ideas and issues that Republicans have.

But, for Obama and the Democrats, their idea of bi-partisanship consists of, "We're the majority. It's our way or the highway. You can get on board with OUR plan or you can go pound salt."

With an attitude like that, do you wonder WHY the Republicans are so obstructionist??

The dynamic we have here at CW.com is a perfect example of this..

I have been told time and time again how I run roughshod over everyone, how I am so forceful and arrogant, how with me, it's "my way or the highway".. While there may be SOME smidgen of truth to that :D ya'all have stated that it's because of this attitude of mine that ya'all are less inclined to debate the issues...

Rather ironic, no?? In here, I am acting like the Democrats and ya'all are acting like the Republicans... :D

So ya'all might have a little understanding on why the Republicans are so obstructionist and ya'all didn't even know it! :D

Liz,

You are not missing a thing at HP - except a lot of frustration. I've taken to expressing my frustration in no uncertain terms - but, it's almost out of my system and I'll soon be back to my normal friendly self ... maybe ...

I popped in for a few over there. About 42 minutes worth. :D Got a few posts in and met a somewhat kindred soul over there.. Wish that Chris1962 could find their way over here!! :D

By the bi... I am conversing with a "Liz" over at another Banter Wire blog. Would that be you, per chance??

Michale.....

[Chris Weigant responds:]

Sorry for shoehorning in on your comment here, Michale, but my browser's acting up and doesn't want to let me reply from the main site (Bad browser! Bad! Bad!!!).

I have passed along your invitation to Chris1962 in comments to my Wednesday column over at HuffPost. Oh, and for everyone's info, Chris is female (I run into this confusion all the time -- the price of having a gender-neutral name, I guess).

-CW

Thanks for the Geithner tip - I don't usually miss the PBS Newshour but I didn't see that one.

I watched the video and was struck by something ... well, two things. First, I am losing faith in Jim Lehrer's journalistic capabilities.

And, Geithner has a certain way about him that is not at all endearing to most people - of course, I'm not one of them! But, I can see how many people would find him aloof and less than empathetic. To which I would counter by asking why that should matter if he's doing an effective job - and he is - as treasury secretary.

I would also say that if people would take the time to watch even one of the many congressional hearings he has testified before, they might see him in a different light. But, probably not.

Anyway, thanks again for the heads up which is always very much appreciated! :)

You are not missing a thing at HP - except a lot of frustration. I've taken to expressing my frustration in no uncertain terms - but, it's almost out of my system and I'll soon be back to my normal friendly self ... maybe ...

That is reassuring. I guess the crowd at Huffington Post is not representative of the electorate at large. What a relief that is!

And, on a lighter note ... I finally made it to Hamburg - last week - and on the flight home the captain was kind enough to inform us that we would be flying over the southern tip of Iceland. How deliciously appropriate, I thought. :)

I don't know if most people see it quite that way. Other than some liberal pundits (but that's their job). I certainly don't. Though I would like to see him fight harder to drive a progressive agenda.

I think he could actually turn things around in terms of public opinion pretty quickly if he would talk more about his vision. And here's a thought ... maybe talk about how we could do even more if Republicans would help instead of being instant opposition.

And I think he's starting to ...
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/politics/ap/obama-set-to-boost-democratic-senate-candidates-talk-jobs-in-missouri-nevada-98006374.html

Some great quotes in that article:
"We don't have to guess how the other party will govern because we're still living with the results from the last time they governed."

He wants to make sure big corporations are "playing by the same rules" as small businesses.

Michale.......

Hundreds Of Fishermen Missing Checks From BP
BP Gives No Indication Of When Payments Resume
http://www.wdsu.com/news/24178322/detail.html

BP is a foreign company..

What do they care what happens to Americans.

A better case for Nationalization can't be made.

Michale.....

The Gallup poll shows that Obama's Approval rating is down to 38% amongst the group that is VITAL to any political party.

Independents...

No Political Party can hope to have ANY kind of decent showing in elections without that one group...

It's a bona fide fact that it's us Independents that decide ALL elections..

Kinda makes me all warm and fuzzy... :D

Obama, and by extension Democrats, don't seem to be doing too well with that all important group.

I'm just sayin'........

Michale.....

I am and it was.... :D

with nothing to back Obama up but public opinion -- to set aside the whopping sum of 20 billion dollars for a restitution fund which will be administered not by BP but by an independent overseer.

Let's keep this in perspective..

A- Considering the damage already done and the all-but-assured damage still to come, 20 Billion is not "whopping" by any standard..

B- It's not even 20 Billion. It's 5 Billion a year for 4 years. It's also interesting to note that the tally so far is at around 3-4 Billion. And we're just 1 month into the first year...

C- Obama got NOTHING from BP that will hold BP to their agreement. There is nothing stopping BP from reneging on their "pledge" and telling Obama (and US, incidentally) "Frak off, we'll see you in court."

Obama had a rare opportunity for some REAL leadership here. Unfortunately, he blew it. As he is wont to do.

Liz,

It's been my experience that most people see this bill as another big sellout to Wall Street and not an effort to reign them in.

There's a reason for that...

Because, for all intents and purposes, that is exactly what it is..

It professes to help Main St but there is nothing in it that actually DOES that..

I can hardly wait for the fun to begin at the Huffington Post.

Yea, go ahead.. Rub it in.. :D

In general, you can count on Obama's numbers going down and such a downward trend will accelerate.

Why??

As we come closer to Election Day, we will begin to hear more and more about the malfeasance of this administration. In particular, all the bad stuff of CrapCare (which is pretty much ALL of CrapCare) will be played up on the airwaves left and right and center...

In short, we will hear over and over and over ad nasuem how bad the Democrats have governed the last 4 years.

Of course, the Democrats will try and counter that by trying to seize on any and every gaffe, small or large, committed by the Right..

But that will simply exacerbate the Democrats downward slide.

I mean, seriously....

RIGHT:
"DEMOCRATS had 4 years to do something good for the country and all they did was run the country into the toilet!!!"

The Democrats Response:
"Yea, well... Rush Limbaugh made another racist remark!!!"

It's really a no-brainer...

Michale.....

Well, at least Obama forced BP to drill TWO relief wells, doubling their chances of having it work....

I don't think Obama will get a bump on the Wall Street bill mostly because I don't think a lot of people outside the Beltway are paying all that much attention to it, one way or another. Sure, the left is calling the bill a sellout, and the right is calling it Armageddon (or whatever, haven't been keeping up, probably involves Karl Marx in one way or another...), but the majority of Americans, I think, barely even know it exists. That's just a gut feeling, though, I could be wrong.

Oh, hey, Geithner was on PBS' "The News Hour" last night, only caught about half of it, but you should look up a transcript if interested. I think it was the lead-in segment to the show.

You know, I originally started this column because of withdrawal symptoms from doing the "2008 Electoral Math" series of columns, but it has turned into a nice way to sum up each month as we pass it by, I have to admit.

:-)

-CW

A lot has to go right if BP is to be successful in plugging the hole(s) leaking God knows how many hundreds of thousands of barrels of oil per day. Their track record of successful operations during this crisis is not reassuring. We may have to face the possibility that this well cannot be repaired. What that means for 2012, I shudder to think.

As for the president getting a bump from the Wall Street reform bill, I'm not putting any money on that, either. It's been my experience that most people see this bill as another big sellout to Wall Street and not an effort to reign them in. The president is a corporatist, don't you know, and he and his crack economic team are well on their way to ruining the country. Given that scenario, it's hard to see the harbinger of any good poll news there.

The only hope I see in all of this is that Obama/Biden and crew will finally step up their communication game and start fighting back to correct the record of nonsense that continues to build up within the inept confines of the media and blogosphere.

By the way, you are building up a very nice record here on President Obama that will set the gold standard when looking at these things in retrospect at the end of the second term of the Obama administration. There will be nothing out there that will even be worthy of comparison.

I guess what I'm trying to say here is that your tireless efforts will be rewarded ... in another lifetime! :)

Seriously, all of your hard work is very much appreciated ... even when the results are somewhat depressing.