http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703900004575325131111637728.html?mod=WSJ_WSJ_US_News_5

Michale.....

It seems a Federal Judge agrees that the Obama Administration way over-reacted in the 6 month moratorium on all deep sea drilling.

Michale.....

You can bet that McChrystal is set to retire from the military and then hold press conference after press conference after press conference.

I relish the next couple months prior to the mid-terms to see the administration's total and complete incompetence laid bare.

Michale.....

Obama fired McChrystal...

Nothing like changing a commander in the middle of a vital offensive.

Why ANYONE thinks Obama is capable of being CnC is beyond me..

Michale.....

At least the Left would think so.. :D

Michale.....

It does have a certain poetry to it, doesn't it? :D

Hay, I'm a poet and I don't know it.
But my feet show it because they're LongFellows.. :D

Feel free to use it at your leisure. :D

Michale.....

...
...
...

I'm bored.

But I will give you credit for "tangible inaction," Michale. I'd really like to use that somewhere. I'm just not sure where.

'Night
David

Inaction can be as tangible as action.

Or, as the esteemed Captain Kirk said...

"Failure to make a decision is a decision in itself. And it is usually the wrong decision to make."

An example of Obama's tangible INACTIONS are simply too numerous to list..

His slow and lazy response to the oil spill is simply one of the latest manifestations of tangible inaction.

Michale.......

We are talking tangible and factual actions taken and not taken by Obama that show his lack of competence.

I thought we were talking politics. So I thought we were talking about a series of assertions based on premises and a reasoning mechanism for moving from premise to conclusion. Now these assertions can be based on various models (economic, political, etc.) and supported by evidence or historical data, but at their heart remain assertions. Please do not confuse assertions with facts. That would not be logical :).

Cheers
David

p.s. How can an action not taken be tangible?

Now your 50 Million Elvis fans comparison is amusing and all.. But we're not talking personal preferences or opinions.

We are talking tangible and factual actions taken and not taken by Obama that show his lack of competence..

If you want to try and compare it to Dubya, if you have the Hysterical Right saying the same thing as the Hysterical Left about Bush, then I would say you have a valid point.

But you don't, so you don't..

Not a very smooth move but it doesn't interest me all that much.

The interesting part will be what Obama does about it..

I suppose we can also talk about illegal immigration and why the federal government is aligning with a foreign power to legally attack a sovereign state of the United States...

:D

Michale.....

Using your logic, all you have to do to prove someone is incompetent is to find 2 people (one from the right and one from the left) who disagree with a 3rd. Hmm. I think I could find another person from right ... (stop it, akadjian!)

Let me show you how easy this is using Michale logic:
1. Ron Paul disagreed w/ President Bush's decision to go to war with Iraq
2. Arianna Huffington also disagreed.
3. One is a liberal, one a conservative
4. Conclusion: George W. Bush is incompetent

We'll definitely have to chip in to get you that "Jump to Conclusions" mat though.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/125/331634958_387617c29f.jpg

On another note, whatcha think of the McChrystal issue? :D

Not a very smooth move but it doesn't interest me all that much.

Two mortal enemies.. They hate each other, can't stand each other.. They would as soon commit hari-kari would a dull rusty spoon rather than agree on ANYTHING.

These two mortal enemies agree that President Obama is incompetent..

It's rather ironic in a way.. President Obama has actually succeeded in bringing Right and Left together to agree on something.

Unfortunately, for President Obama, the one thing he got them to agree on is his own lack of competence...

On another note, whatcha think of the McChrystal issue? :D

Michale.....

I think this could be said about any President using your argument. The left wants more left. The right wants more right. Or someone else wants something different.

I guess I just don't find it interesting to just say "he could be better". I'm more interested in the how. And I think it's another leap entirely to say he's incompetent.

But, my point is.. If two people take diametrically opposing paths, yet reach the same conclusion.

This is not necessarily the case. My favorite example is the Elvis album: "50 million Elvis Fans Can't Be Wrong". All I will say is, yes they can :)

Cheers
-David

Exactly...

We agree that Obama should be a better president.

How we come to that conclusion is by totally different paths..

But, my point is.. If two people take diametrically opposing paths, yet reach the same conclusion.....

How likely that the conclusion is wrong??

Michale.....

In terms of conclusions, neither is arguing that Obama is incompetent. That seems to be your argument.

And your proof seems to be, the right disagrees with him and the left disagrees with him so therefore he's incompetent.

I see it more as the right wants him to move further right. And the left wants him to be more progressive. I see him trying to pursue a centrist path. But I don't see a conclusion that he's incompetent from this.

I see him trying to chart a middle ground. Pretty much what he ran on. (For the record, I don't agree w/ this centrist path, but I don't think he's incompetent.)

No, I believe he should do the right thing by ALL Americans.. Even if it pleases NO ONE... :D Bet THAT puts yer logic circuits into melt-down, eh? :D

Obama seems to have gotten the pleasing no one part down anyways ... :) At least when it comes to pundits. Time will tell w/ the people.

And honestly, I'm with you here. Though we'd probably differ on what the right thing would be.

Cheers
David

If this was the Obama that I voted for, he would put the needs of the military and the country ahead of his own petty desires. He would give McChrystal a good dressing down and then tell him to get his ass back to work.

But I have a feeling that the Obama we have now is going to fall back to pure pettiness and vindictiveness and fire McChrystal, the military and the country be damned..

Don't get me wrong. There are good and rational for both decisions. That's why I said it was a WIN WIN for Obama.

Michale.....

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/06/22/AR2010062200813_pf.html

Michale.....

You are looking at the conclusional methodology, not the conclusion itself...

If you'll forgive the Godwin, I'll give you an example..

I put forth the conclusion that Hitler was an evil psychotic scumbag.

My conclusional methodology is to outline the attacks and warfare that Hitler perpetrated on neighboring countries...

You put forth the conclusion that Hitler was an evil psychotic scumbag.

Your conclusional methodology is to outline the brutal murders of 6 million Jews.

We both have different methodology, but our conclusion is the same...

I know, that's not the best of examples...

Now, let's look at the Obama conclusion.

Both people come to the same conclusion, but for different reasons..

It seems to me that if two people can take a completely different circuitous route but yet come to the same conclusion, well that would say a lot for the validity of the conclusion..

Fair enough. So why cite Barone?

Why would I cite Green?? He is as opposite from me on issues of CounterTerrorism and National Security as is possible to be and be on the same planet..

I don't with his reasons, but I agree with his conclusion. Obama is incompetent...

Just as, in my example, we would agree that Hitler is a scumbag but for different reasons...

Kidding, kidding. But do you really believe he could please everyone?

No, I believe he should do the right thing by ALL Americans.. Even if it pleases NO ONE... :D Bet THAT puts yer logic circuits into melt-down, eh? :D

But it seems that the only people Obama wants to please are the Democrat politicians who strive to maintain the status quo.. No better example of this than CrapCare..

NO BODY wanted CrapCare.. Not the Left, not the Right (albeit for different reasons) and not the American people, certainly. The only people who wanted CrapCare was Obama and a handful of powerful Dems, who desperately DESPERATELY needed ANYTHING even remotely similiar to a win. And their got their Pyrrhic victory, be it by hook or by crook.

So let me ask the question a different way. What did Bush do differently than Obama that you respect?

Bush's leadership ability shone in the aftermath of 9/11..

This pretty much sums it up...

http://sjfm.us/temp/ATT00099.jpg

Bush made some extremely unpopular decisions for the good of the country.. Yea, I know, I know.. Iraq was NOT one of those.. :)

Now, I do have to give Obama some credit. I applaud that he has continued many of Bush's necessary policies. He DOES deserve credit for that, I'll grant that..

And who knows... When we get another 9/11 style attack on US proper, perhaps Obama will outshine Bush in the leadership department.

I honestly doubt it, but we're probably going to find out real soon. All the clues are out there..

Michale.....

But haven't these 2 people come to two completely different conclusions? Both cannot possibly be right since they contradict each other.

Here's the core of the 2 arguments:
1) Green wants Obama to be more progressive and nationalize BP
2) Barone wants Obama to lay off of big business. Barone would never be for nationalizing BP.

The only thing both of these have in common is that they want Obama to do something differently.

One is saying that Obama should be further right. The other, further left.

They can't both be right. So I'm not sure what you're trying to prove.

That's why I wanted to know what you thought he should do differently. And you said, nationalize BP. So you would disagree with Barone who wants to go easier on BP.

Fair enough. So why cite Barone?

THAT is what I would have Obama do to be a great leader for ALL Americans, and ALL of the world's citizens.

I thought you wanted him to be his own man and not try to please all of the people all of the time :)

Kidding, kidding. But do you really believe he could please everyone?

If you do, then I think you're the one who wants him to be a messiah. And I'm not even sure a messiah could please everyone.

Let's look at this a different way. You seem to respect Bush. And he certainly didn't try to please everyone.

So let me ask the question a different way. What did Bush do differently than Obama that you respect?

Cheers
David

I just focused on the PS part of your last post and missed this question:

"What would you have Obama do differently, Michale, to be a "great leader for ALL Americans""

I'll post the same thing here that I posted elsewhere...

I would have Obama say, "FRAK YOU" to the Democratic Party, say "FRAK YOU" to the Republican Party and do what is right for Me... And YOU.... And CW.... And Liz.... And Kevin... And even Matt... And all the rest of us...

THAT is what I would have Obama do to be a great leader for ALL Americans, and ALL of the world's citizens...

Michale.....

Let me put it this way...

Two people...

From opposite ends of the spectrum...

Using different sources, different methods, but coming to the same conclusion..

What are the odds that the conclusion could possibly be wrong?

Michale.....

Well, he has very much lead from the center. He's certainly not a progressive.

So I'm not sure what you're referring to. He's even continued most of the Bush/Cheney war policies.

Now I certainly don't agree with his centrist strategy. But the criticism that he's somehow a leftist/socialist who is not governing from the center is ridiculous.

In fact, he does very little for his progressive base. This is my issue w/ Obama. It's Green's issue as well.

What would you have Obama do differently, Michale, to be a "great leader for ALL Americans"?

Cheers
David

p.s. Citing first Green, then Barone, in the Examiner confuses me. Why are you citing both of these articles? Which do you agree with?

It can't be both since Barone would accuse Green of "thuggery" for trying to nationalize BP.

To a casual observer, it looks like you're just trying to list people from both sides who disagree with Obama.

How?

He led me to believe that he was something he wasn't. He led me to believe that he was a man that could be a great leader for ALL Americans...

I don't like being fooled..

I guess I am more angry at myself... But what kind of nutcase would I be if I took it out on myself? :D

If you will pardon the obvious flaws in the comparison, think of it as a woman who marries a guy that promised her the world, promised her trips to Pandora and Eden and Utopia. Once she marries the bum, she finds out he's a garbage collector that makes $25K a year and lives with his mother..

She would be a tad pissed at the guy, no??

Now, I am SURE ya'all can have fun with THAT, eh?? :D Have a ball...

I hate to say it. And I may be wrong. But it does look like you're angry with him and just trying to take him down at every opportunity.

I am very angry with him. And I will point out every reason available to justify my anger at him...

But there are two things I won't do.

1. Make shit up

and

B. Overlook any good he has done.

I'll give credit where credit is due.. Grudgingly, to be sure, but I will do it..

For example. It's great that Obama got 5 Billion for the Gulf Coast citizens. He should have gotten a LOT more (nationalize the fuckers!!) but at least he got the 5 Billion..

Howz that?? :D

With Bush, I'd try to separate the act from the man. Because while it's true I didn't like him because I completed disagreed with his philosophy of government occasionally he would do things I would agree with.

If true, you were probably the ONLY one from the Left that did... :D Well, you and CW... :D

But we should also give credit where credit is due. And I thought he did a good thing w/ BP.

Only if it succeeds.. I know you said it goes without saying, but it DOES need to be said...

It's like saying that the Eagles did a good thing with Michael Vick..

It's only a good thing if Vick does good with the Eagles...

Forget the harshness of my previous posts... I was in a pissy mood this morning...

"Don't drive angry.. DON'T drive angry.."
-Bill Murray, GROUNDHOG DAY

Michale......

Many good points in this commentary as well..

Oh David,

I wanted to follow up on something, since you apparently missed it before.

If it had been a Republican President in office at the time of the oil spill and this Republican President did and did not do exactly the same things as President has done and not done, I would still be castigating that Republican President in the exact same manner as I am President Obama.

The question is, would be be SUPPORTING that Republican President in the same manner you are supporting President Obama now?

Michale.....

http://www.smirkingchimp.com/author/david_michael_green

Michale.....

It was written in 2009...

BEFORE CrapCare passed....

One has to wonder Green's opinions today, with all the other bonehead mistakes that have been made since then....

He makes some real good points in this OpEd piece. Of course, the points will be missed by those who are still gulping the Obama Koolaid by the gallon...

Michale.....

Hear it from a progressive, like yourself.

http://www.opednews.com/articles/1/Now-I-m-Really-Getting-Pis-by-David-Michael-Gree-091219-496.html

Michale.....

Of course. This goes w/o saying.

He fooled me and that carries with it a certain amount of hostility, to be sure.

How?

I hate to say it. And I may be wrong. But it does look like you're angry with him and just trying to take him down at every opportunity.

With Bush, I'd try to separate the act from the man. Because while it's true I didn't like him because I completed disagreed with his philosophy of government occasionally he would do things I would agree with.

Anything that tarnishes the golden boy is nothing but hysterical political machinations and is simply not true.

This isn't the case w/ anyone I know. Most folks I know tend to think that there has been a large shift to the right in our country over the past 40 years. And we believe this shift is responsible for certain things like our financial crisis.

Most folks I know are looking for a better way. So we feel responsible to help. Does this mean we agree w/ Obama all the time? Of course not.

But we should also give credit where credit is due. And I thought he did a good thing w/ BP.

Cheers
David

First off, the real story behind Obama's alleged "victory" is that BP told Obama to frack off on some key points.

BP was successful in arguing that it shouldn’t be liable for any economic fallout from President Barack Obama’s decision to call a six-month moratorium on deep-sea drilling, and also rejected a request to pay for anything other than a restoration of the region’s coastline to conditions existing before the April 20 accident, the newspaper said.

Funny how no one has heard THAT story, eh?

And let's face it.. The Gulf Coast citizens are only getting $5 Billion.. Almost half has already been spent as of last week..

Cheer Obama all you want.. But the "victory" is very hollow.. It's much like the "victory" of CrapCare.. It's better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick, but that is all...

David,

And modest too!

One of my finer qualities.. :D

Michale, we already know you don't respect Obama. And are willing to say anything to try to make people think the same.

Only if it's factual or if it's an opinion supported by facts...

And I am constrained to point out that I am not the only one. How many of Obama's die hard worshipers are saying to themselves today, "well gee whiz.. Maybe executive experience IS important."

Obama's poll numbers are in free fall. Europe, which worshiped the ground that Obama walked on, are slamming him daily.. Have you READ some of the news out of Europe??

I shouldn't have to convince anyone of anything. The facts clearly speak for themselves.. At least, to those who actually CARE about the facts, over hero-worship...

If Obama had been more pro-active, you'd find something else bad to say about him.

If he had nationalized BP, you'd be screaming that he was socialist. (I really think it's funny, though, Michale, that you're picking this critique up from the left in an effort to find whatever criticism will stick.)

Such an accusation is not only completely unfair, it's totally untrue..

Unlike most everyone in here, *I* don't base my opinions or "facts" on political partys.

And you KNOW it..

I never change my position based on political considerations. I have said from the start that BP is a foreign corporation and will not have the same concern for doing the right thing by Americans that an American company would...

Frankly, I am offended that you would hurl out such a completely unfounded accusation. That's really not like you.

Truth be told, I have only read one other person who has advocated nationalization.

My opinions are mine and mine alone and I will thank you for not implying otherwise...

This is why Obama shouldn't spend too much time listening. They are going to be criticizing him no matter what he does.

And yet, listening to the media is exactly what Obama does..

It's become quite easy to predict Obama's moves a week ahead. All one has to do is read what the media is saying he should do. If there is a general consensus amongst the media that Obama should do A, then sure enough.. A week later Obama is doing A... If there is a general consensus that Obama should say B, then a week later, Obama is crowing B..

It's happen far too often to be a mere coincidence...

The difference is, you want to see him impeached or beheaded, and we support him but would like to see him work towards a more progressive agenda.

I don't recall ever pushing impeachment for Obama.. But plenty have... FROM THE LEFT....

We get that you don't like Obama. I think it was the 24x7 anti-Obama comments that clued me in ;).

It's not a question of not liking him. He fooled me and that carries with it a certain amount of hostility, to be sure.

You were correct before when you said that I don't respect him. I don't. There is nothing really to respect about the man...

But not liking him is one thing. Him doing something right with BP is another.

It's only doing "right" with BP if BP actually fulfills it's pledges.. When BP bails on the coast and hides behind legal protections, then Obama will have failed and failed miserably..

Of course, not in your eyes. It will be all BP's fault for not following thru and Obama will be blameless.

That will be the spin out of the White House and you'll buy it, hook line and sinker...

Because, by and large, ya'all really don't care about facts.. Anything that tarnishes the golden boy is nothing but hysterical political machinations and is simply not true...

Regardless of the actual facts of the issue...

Kevin,

P.S.- Really liked your comment [5]!!!

Nice dig.... :^/

Michale......

Glad you liked it too. Maybe I'm dense and everyone else on this site has known this for some time, but is akadjian a play on words and you're "a Cajun"? Just curious.

Kevin
P.S.- Really liked your comment [5]!!!

Well said, Joe! Thanks for posting, Kevin!

Thanks, Kevin!

I don't know if you've seen this, but your heartthrob is in good form...
http://www.bobcesca.com/blog-archives/2010/06/what_the_vice_p.html#comments

Enjoy.

Kevin.

If there were a huge reason for ripping Obama, I could see it. But instead it looks more like the media trying to stir up controversy. If it bleeds, it leads.
I really thought Obama's actions this week were pretty admirable.

Think what would have happened if the GOP were in charge. The government would be picking up the majority of the tab.

I will say that I am right about my opinions regarding Obama's performance.

And modest too!

Michale, we already know you don't respect Obama. And are willing to say anything to try to make people think the same.

If Obama had been more pro-active, you'd find something else bad to say about him.

If he had nationalized BP, you'd be screaming that he was socialist. (I really think it's funny, though, Michale, that you're picking this critique up from the left in an effort to find whatever criticism will stick.)

Most of Obama's critics are the same way.

This is why Obama shouldn't spend too much time listening. They are going to be criticizing him no matter what he does.

The way Obama should go about responding is something like the following: "This is about doing what's right for those who were wronged. I'm not doing this for my popularity. And we're not going to back down on BP because of corporate lobbying or pressure from the media. I'm going to do what's right."

Do what's right and let the idgits say what they may.

Catch up.. Reactive. Never PRO-active, always reactive.

We've all been urging Obama to be more pro-active.

The difference is, you want to see him impeached or beheaded, and we support him but would like to see him work towards a more progressive agenda.

The other difference is that you want to bloody him up so that a fine upstanding Tea Party candidate or someone else (I'm really not sure who since you really don't talk much about who you support) can be elected.

We get that you don't like Obama. I think it was the 24x7 anti-Obama comments that clued me in ;).

But not liking him is one thing. Him doing something right with BP is another.

Cheers
David

http://www.usnews.com/articles/opinion/2010/06/18/mort-zuckerman-world-sees-obama-as-incompetent-and-amateur.html?PageNr=1

Pretty much says it all...

Michale......

Well, how can I not, now?? :D heheheheehehehe

I really want to go in depth on this and I will, but just not now.. Weekends are bad for me.

But I WILL say one thing and it's food for thought..

Obama's response to the oil spill emergency can be summed up in one word.

UNDERESTIMATE

He has underestimated everything about this spill from day one.

Everything he has done has been "catch up". Catching up to the emergency, catching up to the media reports..

Catch up.. Reactive. Never PRO-active, always reactive.

I will go into it a lot more in depth when I get time. If you want a preview, you can read my posts over at Bob Cesca's. Warning, they are not for the faint of heart..

I will say that I am right about my opinions regarding Obama's performance..

Do you know how I know I am right??

Because, if it had been a Republican President and said Republican President had done all of the EXACT same things as Obama has done, ya'all would be saying EXACTLY the same things I am saying now...

The only difference is that we would all be in agreement... :D

Toodles for now...

Michale....

I'm actually astonished that I haven't gotten much backlash for this week's MIDOTW yet. I was really expecting some blowback. Then again, we haven't heard from Michale yet (heh).

Maybe more people than I thought actually liked Obama's speech, who knows?

-CW

You’re beautiful.