If the lawsuits and the legislation against CrapCare don't convince you, perhaps the polls will..

If not, I have to ask..

What WOULD you have to see to get ya'all to finalize realize that John Q Public does NOT want CrapCare??

Open revolt in the streets???

Michale.....

Exactly...

So, if both Liberals AND Conservatives don't like CrapCare, doesn't it stand to reason that the country will be WORSE off rather than better off for CrapCare having passed?

I guess there is no real answer to that. Only time will tell..

Don't worry.. I'll attempt to refrain from saying, "I told ya so"... :D

Michale.....

true, a public option would make a whole lot more sense. alas, that wasn't to be, and that's another main reason support for the new law is relatively low. both the liberal and conservative sides are against a mandate with no public option, just for different reasons.

It's pretty sad that THAT^^^ seems to be the Democratic Party slogan....

Michale.....

At least nothing wouldn't have given the insurance companies 336 Billion dollars in new revenue..

If the insurance companies are the villains here, why did Obama just give them a huge payoff???

Michale.....

that's a good point. i guess it depends on the individual, and you're right about the fine being too low, especially if the person CAN afford it. in that type of case i'd hand it off to the IRS to collect. if the person can't afford it, i don't know what to tell you. it's weak legislation, but it still seems better than nothing.

A $750 dollar a year fine???

Surely, you jest...

If people won't pay for insurance, what makes you think they are going to pay a fine???

Are you going to advocate taking someone's house because they can't pay for insurance???

How is that any different than the way things are now??

Michale.....

Are you speaking metaphysically and the "product" was freedom and democracy??

Or are you speaking more in the ...er.. tangential sense.. :D

Seriously, though...

How can ya'all sit buy and nod yer had happily at this??

How would you feel if the GOP was in power and forced every American citizen to buy Body Armour and upgrade it on a yearly basis at a cost of $20K+ per year???

Ya'all would have a conniption fit...

How is CrapCare any different??

Michale.....

Michale.....

Fodder for the debate:

It is not "unprecedented" for Congress to pass a law forcing citizens to buy a product. First time it happened was in 1792, and it was signed by none other than President George Washington.

-CW

No denying that...

But in this case, it's different..

Never before has Congress FORCED an American citizen to purchase a product that they may not want to purchase..

If CrapCare is so good for the American People, it would behoove Congress to lead by example and take part in CrapCare, no??

No reputable poll has ever shown a majority of Americans to be against health care reform or the reforms that were passed.

Yer kidding, right??

What poll do you consider "reputable"???

CNN?? Rasmussen???

Every poll in the country has shown that the majority of Americans are against CrapCare.. They only vary in the degree of that majority...

Hundreds of Republican amendments were incorporated in spite of Republican refusal to negotiate in good faith or support their own initiatives.

Betcha can't name one... :D

You and Republicans pillory Democrats for being unable to get anything done even with super-majorities, control of congress, and the executive on the one hand, then pillory them "ramming things through all by themselves" if they do accomplish anything—

The problem here is that Democrats were not serving their constituents and the American people, AS THEY SHOULD BE..

They were furthering their own selfish agenda..

And THAT is why the GOP is the Party of NO right now...

And THAT is why the American people are behind the GOP in stopping the Democrats from further ruining this country..

The simple fact is, the American people did NOT want CrapCare..

So, this begs the question..

WHY did the Democrats push for something that was not wanted??

Michale.....

Congress routinely exempts congress itself from federal regulations, have you only noticed it now? It says nothing about health care but a lot about congress, regardless of party affiliation.

The only "strategy" of the Republican party is the "Big Lie" which you're clearly promoting with your regurgitation of fact-free Republican talking-points.

No reputable poll has ever shown a majority of Americans to be against health care reform or the reforms that were passed.

Hundreds of Republican amendments were incorporated in spite of Republican refusal to negotiate in good faith or support their own initiatives.

You and Republicans pillory Democrats for being unable to get anything done even with super-majorities, control of congress, and the executive on the one hand, then pillory them "ramming things through all by themselves" if they do accomplish anything—All the while delaying and obstructing because you're so committed to defending democracy that if you actually lose an election you've no choice but to bring government to a halt until and unless you win again.

Which, of course, you're sure to do because you think Americans are too stupid to blame the obstructive party for a lack of progress or credit the productive party if there is progress.

By whatever passes for reason among conservatives you've convinced yourselves that Democrats will be blamed no matter what happens or why and those halcyon days of Republican rule, unchecked by laws, reason, or reality that nearly destroyed America will soon return so that you may complete God's work in destroying America to "save it."

You may be right.

P.T.Barnum famously quipped "no one ever went broke underestimating the American public."

I, however, am not quite prepared to admit to being that stupid—or to expect it from my fellows. I'd certainly not find such a "win" anything to celebrate.

The problem with THAT theory is that Obama and the Democrats have already pissed off that segment of the voting public by forcing thru CrapCare by hook or by crook...

So, the independents you speak of are already firmly in the GOP camp, at least for the upcoming mid-terms.. Those independents WANT the GOP to punish the Democrats for their arrogant back room deals and angry arm twisting..

The GOP's strategy is sound..

The ONLY group that will be pissed off by the GOP obstructionism is a group that would never have voted GOP anyways. The Democratic Party base..

A base that will most likely stay home in the mid-terms because of the piss-poor way that Democrats handled CrapCare..

So, the likely result of the mid-term elections is a GOP blowout..

Michale.....

The Democrats have proven that they can pass ANYTHING they want.

They don't need the GOP's help, input or ideas..

The Democratic Party doesn't even need the consent or support of the American People.

All the Dems need are the backroom bribes, the angry arm twisting and the ability to completely ignore the will of the people..

So what exactly is the problem here???

Michale.....

If the Democrats want to screw over the country over and over again, why on earth do ya'all feel that the GOP should help them do that??

Perhaps if the Democrats weren't such big hypocrites over everything, it would be different..

Check out page 158 of CrapCare.. Congress exempts Congress from having to to partake in CrapCare..

Get that?? CrapCare is such crap that not even CONGRESS wants to have to use it..

And THIS is the bill that ya'all are touting as such a win.. {{{sssiiiiggggghhhhhh}}}

The well has truly been poisoned... It's the Hoffan drug, all over again. :D

Michale.....