I fracked up the HTML... AGAIN.....

Here is the pic that goes with the above caption...

http://mfccfl.us/temp/barryjoe.jpg

Michale.....

But... But... WIGGLE room is how OLD Washington used to do things...

Where is the NEW Washington??? :D

On another note, you haven't had a Photo Caption piece in a while...

Allow me to contribute...

"We did it, Barry!!! We really fracked the American people, but good!!! This is a big fucking deal!!!"

Michale....

THere you go -- fixed. Posting tags with the angle brackets sometimes causes them to disappear on certain browsers, so I always post tips with other brackets. I really need to get on Liz' suggestion to have a "commenting tips" page here...

Gotta say, you're right about the 5 day thing, and though he could weasel by saying it was posted 3 days on House site, then he signed it 2 days later, I guess. His statement seems very carefully parsed to leave him this wiggle room.

-CW

Oh my god, what a maroon I am...

That's what I get for not reading the fine print, I spose....

My bust... :^/

Michale.....

CW, ya steered me wrong!! :^( heheheheheh

Ya mind fixing my []?? :D

Thanx

Michale...

I'm not doubting you, but I don't remember the 5 day promise from Obama. With the state of my memory at times, this doesn't mean it didn't happen, just that I don't remember it. Got a cite?

Oh, you KNOW I do... :D

"When there's a bill that lands on my desk as President you, the public, will have 5 days to look it up online and find out what's in it before I sign it. So that you know... What your government's doing.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2010/03/23/flashback_obama_promises_public_5_days_to_view_bills_before_he_signs_them.html

Now THERE is a Joe Wilson moment, if ever there was one...

On a side note... Why the '[]' for that but the Greater Than/Less Than symbols for the attributes?? :D

Michale.....

For the curious, it's a "span" tag. To make the following work here in comments, replace the brackets below with angle brackets (characters above period and comma on a US keyboard), and it should work. But don't forget the [/span] tag at the end to turn it off.

[span style="background-color: rgb(0, 255, 0);"]

Woo hoo!

OK, sorry, the silliness is now really officially over.

:-)

-CW

I'm not doubting you, but I don't remember the 5 day promise from Obama. With the state of my memory at times, this doesn't mean it didn't happen, just that I don't remember it. Got a cite?

I do remember Pelosi (and quite possibly Reid) promising to post bills online 72 hrs before a vote. This is a new thing in Congress -- they've never done it before -- so there's not a lot of precedent, but largely they've kept to the spirit of the promise, if not the letter (last-minute tweaking is unavoidable, and the GOP learned quickly to complain that every single change didn't get 72 hrs, which is understandable since it would have given the GOP the tool to endlessly delay everything). Pelosi, in particular, has done a good job of keeping to this new 3-day "rule."

OK, having said that, I have to descend into silliness here. Which has nothing to do with you. I just saw some cool html in a HuffPost article, and had to try it out here to see what happens. Not sure if I'll ever use it, even in comments, but bright green highlighting just looked cool enough to give it a whirl. OK, enough silliness, sorry for the interruption. We now return you to your regularly-scheduled comments....

-CW

He signed CrapCare into law a mere 36 hours after it was forced thru by the House.

This, despite a promise he made to allow the American public FIVE DAYS (count them... 1 2 3 4 5... FIVE DAYS) to read thru the legislation before he signed them..

Where, oh where, is the BUSH LIED crowd now???

Michale.....

Once again, I freely admit that our Health Care industry and our Health Insurance industry is in need of some serious reform..

I also point out (once again) that CrapCare does absolutely NOTHING to address this reform. In fact, it's a financial boon to those Insurance companies, giving them over 336 BILLION (Yes, with a B) dollars in new revenue...

CrapCare is an Insurance Company's wet dream come true...

So, WHY in the hell are ya'all so happy and excited that CrapCare has been signed into law???

Michale.....

Insurance is supposed to be a pool of people sharing risk based on the fact that not all will incur debts simultaneously and no one knows with certainty who will incur debt or the amount of debt, but, statistically it is possible to quantify the likely amount and frequency of indebtedness for a large enough group of people.

Insurers used to be the managers of insurance pools and for that service were paid fees—until they decided they'd rather engage in fraud and theft instead of performing a service.

The odds of a coin toss coming up heads or tails is 50/50, no matter how many previous coin tosses were heads or tails. The odds of any individual toss are always 50/50. Statistics can not predict individual outcomes with any accuracy.

Insurers like Vegas casinos and state lotteries exploit peoples ignorance of that simple fact. "feeding a slot-machine 500 times does nothing to improve your chances of winning. Playing the same Lotto numbers every week does nothing to improve your odds. Having a "preexisting condition" does not mean you are a "higher risk".

Insurers carve up the general pool into smaller "risk" pools, not to be fair or lower premiums for "low risk" policy holders, but simply as an excuse to overcharge and pocket the difference. Then, adding insult to injury, they deny benefits and cancel policies when claims are actually filed, not to "control fraud" but to perpetrate fraud. Because that's what selling a service you have no intention of providing is. Fraud.

The mandate to purchase insurance, the ban on "pre-existing condition" frauds, ect. that you deride as "crapcare" simply say that we, as a nation, want and are willing to pay, for insurance. But we want actual insurance, not insurance frauds.

I've no problem with Dems wasting a year in a fruitless quest for "bipartisanship," Republican voters deserved the chance, even if Republican leadership and the Republican party did not. And I've no problem with giving insurers the opportunity to remain solvent. Though, like the Republican leadership, I fully expect them to refuse to reform and eventually force us to abandon them and adopt single-payer public financing. But, not unlike Republican voters, their shareholders and policy-holders deserve the chance we're giving them.

Yes its "crapcare." Its also stupid to allow others to speak, debate and have opinions—when you could simply ask me what's really right to begin with. But I'm also willing to tolerate the first amendment in the sure and certain knowledge that you'll all see the light—eventually. ;D

1. You are young and don’t want health insurance? You are starting up a small business and need to minimize expenses, and one way to do that is to forego health insurance? Tough. You have to pay $750 annually for the “privilege.” (Section 1501)

2. You are young and healthy and want to pay for insurance that reflects that status? Tough. You’ll have to pay for premiums that cover not only you, but also the guy who smokes three packs a day, drink a gallon of whiskey and eats chicken fat off the floor. That’s because insurance companies will no longer be able to underwrite on the basis of a person’s health status. (Section 2701).

3. You would like to pay less in premiums by buying insurance with lifetime or annual limits on coverage? Tough. Health insurers will no longer be able to offer such policies, even if that is what customers prefer. (Section 2711).

4. Think you’d like a policy that is cheaper because it doesn’t cover preventive care or requires cost-sharing for such care? Tough. Health insurers will no longer be able to offer policies that do not cover preventive services or offer them with cost-sharing, even if that’s what the customer wants. (Section 2712).

5. You are an employer and you would like to offer coverage that doesn’t allow your employers’ slacker children to stay on the policy until age 26? Tough. (Section 2714).

6. You must buy a policy that covers ambulatory patient services, emergency services, hospitalization, maternity and newborn care, mental health and substance use disorder services, including behavioral health treatment; prescription drugs; rehabilitative and habilitative services and devices; laboratory services; preventive and wellness services; chronic disease management; and pediatric services, including oral and vision care.

You’re a single guy without children? Tough, your policy must cover pediatric services. You’re a woman who can’t have children? Tough, your policy must cover maternity services. You’re a teetotaler? Tough, your policy must cover substance abuse treatment. (Add your own violation of personal freedom here.) (Section 1302).

7. Do you want a plan with lots of cost-sharing and low premiums? Well, the best you can do is a “Bronze plan,” which has benefits that provide benefits that are actuarially equivalent to 60% of the full actuarial value of the benefits provided under the plan. Anything lower than that, tough. (Section 1302 (d) (1) (A))

8. You are an employer in the small-group insurance market and you’d like to offer policies with deductibles higher than $2,000 for individuals and $4,000 for families? Tough. (Section 1302 (c) (2) (A).

9. If you are a large employer (defined as at least 101 employees) and you do not want to provide health insurance to your employee, then you will pay a $750 fine per employee (It could be $2,000 to $3,000 under the reconciliation changes). Think you know how to better spend that money? Tough. (Section 1513).

10. You are an employer who offers health flexible spending arrangements and your employees want to deduct more than $2,500 from their salaries for it? Sorry, can’t do that. (Section 9005 (i)).

11. If you are a physician and you don’t want the government looking over your shoulder? Tough. The Secretary of Health and Human Services is authorized to use your claims data to issue you reports that measure the resources you use, provide information on the quality of care you provide, and compare the resources you use to those used by other physicians. Of course, this will all be just for informational purposes. It’s not like the government will ever use it to intervene in your practice and patients’ care. Of course not. (Section 3003 (i))

12. If you are a physician and you want to own your own hospital, you must be an owner and have a “Medicare provider agreement” by Feb. 1, 2010. (Dec. 31, 2010 in the reconciliation changes.) If you didn’t have those by then, you are out of luck. (Section 6001 (i) (1) (A))

13. If you are a physician owner and you want to expand your hospital? Well, you can’t (Section 6001 (i) (1) (B). Unless, it is located in a country where, over the last five years, population growth has been 150% of what it has been in the state (Section 6601 (i) (3) ( E)). And then you cannot increase your capacity by more than 200% (Section 6001 (i) (3) (C)).

14. You are a health insurer and you want to raise premiums to meet costs? Well, if that increase is deemed “unreasonable” by the Secretary of Health and Human Services it will be subject to review and can be denied. (Section 1003)

15. The government will extract a fee of $2.3 billion annually from the pharmaceutical industry. If you are a pharmaceutical company what you will pay depends on the ratio of the number of brand-name drugs you sell to the total number of brand-name drugs sold in the U.S. So, if you sell 10% of the brand-name drugs in the U.S., what you pay will be 10% multiplied by $2.3 billion, or $230,000,000. (Under reconciliation, it starts at $2.55 billion, jumps to $3 billion in 2012, then to $3.5 billion in 2017 and $4.2 billion in 2018, before settling at $2.8 billion in 2019 (Section 1404)). Think you, as a pharmaceutical executive, know how to better use that money, say for research and development? Tough. (Section 9008 (b)).

16. The government will extract a fee of $2 billion annually from medical device makers. If you are a medical device maker what you will pay depends on your share of medical device sales in the U.S. So, if you sell 10% of the medical devices in the U.S., what you pay will be 10% multiplied by $2 billion, or $200,000,000. Think you, as a medical device maker, know how to better use that money, say for R&D? Tough. (Section 9009 (b)).

The reconciliation package turns that into a 2.9% excise tax for medical device makers. Think you, as a medical device maker, know how to better use that money, say for research and development? Tough. (Section 1405).

17. The government will extract a fee of $6.7 billion annually from insurance companies. If you are an insurer, what you will pay depends on your share of net premiums plus 200% of your administrative costs. So, if your net premiums and administrative costs are equal to 10% of the total, you will pay 10% of $6.7 billion, or $670,000,000. In the reconciliation bill, the fee will start at $8 billion in 2014, $11.3 billion in 2015, $1.9 billion in 2017, and $14.3 billion in 2018 (Section 1406).Think you, as an insurance executive, know how to better spend that money? Tough.(Section 9010 (b) (1) (A and B).)

18. If an insurance company board or its stockholders think the CEO is worth more than $500,000 in deferred compensation? Tough.(Section 9014).

19. You will have to pay an additional 0.5% payroll tax on any dollar you make over $250,000 if you file a joint return and $200,000 if you file an individual return. What? You think you know how to spend the money you earned better than the government? Tough. (Section 9015).

That amount will rise to a 3.8% tax if reconciliation passes. It will also apply to investment income, estates, and trusts. You think you know how to spend the money you earned better than the government? Like you need to ask. (Section 1402).

20. If you go for cosmetic surgery, you will pay an additional 5% tax on the cost of the procedure. Think you know how to spend that money you earned better than the government? Tough. (Section 9017).

http://blogs.investors.com/capitalhill/index.php/home/35-politicsinvesting/1563-20-ways-obamacare-will-take-away-our-freedoms

Michale.....

There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that Obama was ever interested in REAL bi-partisanship..

If Obama really believed in bi-partisanship, he would have dropped CrapCare when it became apparent it would not pass without a whole bunch of angry arm-twisting and bribes....er... sweetheart deals for his political cronies..

75% of the American people are against CrapCare.. The fact that Obama rammed CrapCare thru anyways simply proves that Obama is all about furthering the Left's agenda...

Anyone who's going to throw around sweeping generalizations, slogans, and condemnations of either party on Health Care, should begin stating:

Let's just say that, in my case, with my family, all the entitlements, goodies and free stuff that the Democratic Party is giving to the lower income families, it would be a big big boost for myself and my wife.

For my children's sake, I am ecstatic that CrapCare passed.

That's the only silver lining I can see. I will get to have ya'all pay for my children and my grandchildren care.. :D

Granted the standard of care will go way WAY down..

But, hopefully, once the GOP regain the majorities in both the House and the Senate, we can keep the few (VERY few) good things about CrapCare and put in some REAL reform..

Michale.....

No one is claiming that our Health Care system is in serious need of some serious reform.

The problem is, is that CrapCare is NOT reform at all in any way, shape or form.

It's a 336 BILLION dollar a year entitlement to the Insurance Companies..

Ya know?? Those same Insurance Companies that Obama has vilified?? They are singing in glee at the 30 million new customers they are going to have.

That is, of course, assuming that CrapCare will survive all the court challenges, which is doubtful.

I am simply astounded that such a gross constitutional violation of a bill is being lauded as the second coming around here..

The ONE thing that Republicans and Democrats can agree on is that CrapCare is... well.. crap...

Ink,

1) Obama essentially applied nonviolence principles to the legislation. He was the polar opposite of the right-wing frame (NOT twisting arms, NOT bending rules, NOT being angry or dictatorial).

What planet are you on, Ink??

Not twisting arms or bending rules?? WTF!?? Obama was ALL about twisting arms. Obama was ALL about flat out BREAKING rules. Not to mention all the backroom sweetheart deals he had to bribe congress with to get their votes...

As far as not being angry or dictatorial? Again.. WTF??? You obviously didn't see Brett Baier's Obama interview...

Liz,

So, in other words, Michale, you think that this healthcare reform bill is a historic moment, indeed!

Yes, Crapcare is a historic moment in the same manner that 9/11 was a "historic" moment..

It's certainly nothing to be happy about any more than 9/11 was something to be happy about.

CW,

She is NEVER afraid of saying "That's just wrong" or "you're lying" to Republicans, and then

Does she say it to Democrats as well?? If so, I wonder why we haven't heard her saying it over and over and over and over again in the last few weeks..

Michale, you're 1,000 quatloos down. Another grand when the Senate votes, as I remember it. Heh. That's what is historic, to me. OK, sorry, I shouldn't rub it in...

Looks like we may have a draw then.. Because CrapCare Redux is not making it out of the Senate to Obama's desk. Best case scenario (for Dems) is that it's bounced back to the House. Worse case is that it is simply ruled dead by the Senate Parliamentarian...

Michale.....

Here's the cite you're looking for.

From June 9, 2009:

"The statistics on this are staggering, and are a national embarrassment. A recent study showed that 62 percent of all personal bankruptcies in America are due to medical reasons. The majority of which were people who had health insurance."

When they previously crunched the bankruptcy data, in the early 90s (or perhaps as late as 2000, I forget the exact date), only eight percent of bankruptcies were due to medical reasons.

I always thought Dems should have LED with this fact, in every discussion, as "this is what we're trying to fix."

Osborne -

(2) You're right about that. I bet "Repeal!" isn't going to be nearly as good a campaign slogan as Republicans now think it's going to be.

(3) I remember Rahm picking fights with the base. The words "fucking retarded" do spring to mind. And I believe that if Obama had come out in September and said "you know what, we don't have the votes, we're giving up on the public option" he would have gotten a lot of grief for it at the time, but the wounds would have healed faster than the way it played out. Just my take on it.

(4) I missed that about Obama and Emanuel, but if you're right, it just puts more of the onus on Reid.

As for the rest of it, largely agree with your analysis. Especially (5) - one year from now, nobody will remember all the "process" issues, but they will remember the victory.

As for DWS, I had never heard of her before this debate began. But WOW she is really impressive when she speaks. She is NEVER afraid of saying "That's just wrong" or "you're lying" to Republicans, and then going on to quote some facts which prove her right. She's a fireball, and I hope she rises in party stature as well. Go get 'em, Debbie!

:-)

Michale, you're 1,000 quatloos down. Another grand when the Senate votes, as I remember it. Heh. That's what is historic, to me. OK, sorry, I shouldn't rub it in...

-CW

9/11 was a "historic" moment...

And it's likely that CrapCare will do more harm to this country than a hundred 9/11s....

So, in other words, Michale, you think that this healthcare reform bill is a historic moment, indeed!

Well said, Michale! :)

Wasserman-Schultz would make an excellent President. Not to mention how it rolls off the tongue: President Wasserman-Schultz ... I love it

What era does that sound like, Chris?

2) Obama actually did his own polling between Senate cloture and the Brown debacle. He was thus able to "pivot" on financial reform the day after Massachusetts. Watch: in six weeks, all we'll be talking about is CFPB and no one will be talking about a public option...until November, perhaps.

3) I don't remember Obama picking fights with his base. Actually, I remember that last December there weren't 60 votes for reform with just liberals and progressives together. You needed Joe Lieberman or Olympia Snowe and you got them by stripping the public option out of the bill...which doesn't mean there will be no public option. In fact, with Grayson and Reid bringing it back I can count eight times the public option has supposedly died and been revived.

4) It's worth mentioning that Obama and Rahm Emanuel wanted to go to reconciliation last November, but the Senate parliamentarian wouldn't let them. They may very well get permission to move forward on financial reform, given the new role of credit regulation in the safety of taxpayer debt. So if the GOP wants to stick up for banks these next six weeks, I say let 'em grandstand.

5) Victory is the only god most Americans worship on Sunday afternoons. By November, key demographics will be buzzing about benefits from the health care bill, the economy will have improved, and the Republicans will have invoked class warfare without even trying. That's why even SOME Democratic courage to attack would be most welcome -- the GOP can undo themselves on C-SPAN providing fodder for issue ads. This November has potential for epic win and I hope progressive organizers seize this opportunity early.

6) Obama really needs a win or tie in November. He's got a much slimmer majority than FDR or LBJ, which is why he's less able to deliver on reform.

7) Wasserman-Schultz is great veep material and Obama should really consider replacing Biden in 2012 with someone of her mad skillz. Unlike Bush, Obama has no one to succeed him -- Biden's not presidential material, and she is. She has GOT to come out of the House or she'll never be able to run. The Age of Stupid must end.

1.) what sort of health insurance they have, 2.) how close they are to retirement, 3.) how many family members they've seen deal with a serious medical problems in the last five years.
For example, 1& 2.) I am a retired federal employee, have both Medicare and Blue Cross as my back-up and am glad I do. Medicare has paid for thousands of dollars worth of testing after I had an apparent stroke.
On the other hand, 3.) I lost my brother three years ago when he went for five years after losing his job, unable to get any medical insurance. He held on for years hoping he could get some treatment when he reached 65 and became eligible for Medicare. He died eleven days before then.

I'm not going to sling around any adjectives, but would like to observe that an enormously high number of Americans go into bankruptcy after our Health Care Industry didn't "care" for them. Chris has cited the percentage of bankruptcies involved. I have forgotten it. Help me here, CW.

I think only, that there are others out here, like me, who don't give much of a hoot about slogans; we just have given up on the corporate version of Health "Care."

Let's face the facts...

Waterloo was a "historic" moment.

The Charge Of The Light Brigade was a "historic" moment...

9/11 was a "historic" moment...

And it's likely that CrapCare will do more harm to this country than a hundred 9/11s....

Michale......