Or James Steward in Harvey? Or Jake Gyllenhaal in Donnie Darko?

:)
-David

OK, I ain't gonna touch THAT one at all!! :D

Michale.....

OK, now I'm having trouble getting the image of "Giant carrot sticks for all!" out of my head...

:-)

-CW

I agree with pretty much all you said, but this made me laugh.... :D

Michale.....

I have a favorite quote that I heard from a friend at work that's similar. Don't know the source but it goes:

"Just because I'm paranoid, doesn't mean they're not out to get me."

-David

p.s. As far as things getting done by the private sector, conservative leadership has pushed for "voluntary" cooperation.

Obama went along w/ this idea in his Mortgage Modification Plan. The trouble so far is that there hasn't been an incentive for mortgage companies to help consumers and so it hasn't gotten done.

In fact, the incentive is almost the opposite. They make more money if they simply foreclose on homes.

So I'm with you. There's got to be either a carrot or a stick or a stick made out of a giant carrot.

The private section will, by definition, act in their own best interests. Not saying this is a bad or good thing. It just is the way they're setup.

So any private sector solution has to have an incentive. That said, the lobbyists will fight tooth and nail for carrots and what will help them make the most profit. And this isn't always in the best public interest.

I would have thought that government enforcement was a given.

I can't see how these things would get done, except by government enforcement.

I'm voting for Satan. Since no one can be more evil than Satan.

If you are a fan of CW's (The Network, not our illustrious host.. :D) SUPERNATURAL, you will see that Satan is actually a pretty sympathetic guy. :D

North would be funny if he weren't so crazy. But claiming that only paranoid, see enemies behind every tree conservatives are capable of defending America and everyone else is weak has been a conservative strategy for years.

"Of course I'm paranoid! Everyone's out to kill me!!"
-Garak, DEEP SPACE NINE

:D

Michale.....

The 4 points are Republican talking points, yes. But nowhere in any of their points does it say anything about government enforcement.

You know what conservative leaders think of government enforcement?

One word: socialism.

BTW- I do wish they would decide whether Obama was a socialist or a fascist because by definition he can't be both. I'm voting for Satan. Since no one can be more evil than Satan.

@CW
North would be funny if he weren't so crazy. But claiming that only paranoid, see enemies behind every tree conservatives are capable of defending America and everyone else is weak has been a conservative strategy for years.

Take the public option out of health care reform, and you may not have a bill at all.
-Nancy Pelosi, 9 Sep 2009

As long as legislation makes quality health care more accessible and affordable, we will go forward with that bill.
-Nancy Pelosi, 11 Sep 2009

I guess the Far Left has no hope of seeing the public option. No one wants to pick up the gauntlet.

Michale.....

I don't see how that could be.

These are Republican points.

Perhaps President Obama should call their alleged "bluff" and institute these, eh? :D

Michale.....

"One Fish, Two Fish, Red Fish, Oliver North is a nut"

I'm amazed more soldiers don't get annoyed at the outsourcing of our military, personally.

-CW

"If the government enforces those 4 points, the Insurance Companies will HAVE to reform."

Try getting this past conservatives and see how far something like this goes. You would be labelled a "socialist" in a second :).

I joke, but I'd be willing to wager every quatloo I have that this would be the reaction. I like the thought though.

And to your point, Republicans often do a better job of getting people onboard with simple easy to grasp concepts, especially making what I would call "the business case".

Obama's made some significant strides in this area though. Particularly with small business owners.

@CW
Ollie North? Hmmm ... Lemme guess. Disney's Holiday on Ice?

Ok, I couldn't find much other than his new book and stint in Hannity's Freedom Concert and rant on narco-terrorism. A little Google help please?

Perhaps it's because Republicans are trying to change the military so that more of it is "private industry."

Do you game at all???

UBISoft has a somewhat new release out.

HAWX

It's a Flight Simulator that postulates a scenario where PMCs (Private Military Contractors) fight all the world's wars. And military loyalty goes to the highest bidder.

It's an awesome Flight Sim with a really engrossing back story.. If your computer has the horsepower, I highly recommend it. :D

But I digest... :D

Michale

RE: your point on the military.

Perhaps it's because Republicans are trying to change the military so that more of it is "private industry." Google what Oliver North's been up to in the past week for some details.

-CW

I would think so too.. Apparently, there is SOMETHING about it that won't work or else the Obama Administration would be trotting that out as a fine example of excellent government management.

Now pardon me while I go throw up. :D Something about those three words just won't stay down... :D

And I'd also agree that the 4 points you mentioned are things that sound pretty good to me.

I like them too. Not just because they came from the Republican Rebuttal, but because they make sense. They are simple, easy to grasp concepts that would go a LONG way towards mollifying the public and getting them on board with DunselCare.

One wonders why Obama, Pelosi and the like can't see something that seems very obvious to Joe Q Public.

The insurance industry is not going to reform itself though. Look at how well this worked with the banks. If incentives are not there one way or another, in the form of a carrot or a stick or additional competition, these things will not happen.

If the government enforces those 4 points, the Insurance Companies will HAVE to reform.

Or they will cease to exist.

"I will veto any bill that does not include a public option."

That woulda been a hoot, eh? :D

Michale.....

And I'd also agree that the 4 points you mentioned are things that sound pretty good to me.

The insurance industry is not going to reform itself though. Look at how well this worked with the banks. If incentives are not there one way or another, in the form of a carrot or a stick or additional competition, these things will not happen.

That's the only other thing I'd add.

-David

p.s. That and Obama's speech would have been a lot stronger had it sounded like this:

"I will veto any bill that does not include a public option."

Exit stage left .... :)

He didn't narrow any choices. Granted he spoke forcefully about what he would like to see.

But that was really the only thing different than what has been said all along.

DunselCare is exactly where it was 24 hours ago. It hasn't been pared down, it hasn't been limited by options off the table. It's still the same bloated and All-Options-Possible piece of felgercarb it was 24 hours ago.

In that regard, Obama's speech was a failure.

Michale.....

Whaaa happened?

Did 17 million Americans suddenly get health insurance in the last week??

On another note, does anyone have a problem with these 4 things?

All individuals should have access to coverage regardless of pre-existing conditions.

Individuals, small businesses and other groups should be able to join together to get health insurance at lower prices, the same way large businesses and labor unions do.

Provide assistance to those who still cannot access a doctor.

Insurers should be able to offer incentives for wellness care and prevention.

These all seem like really good points to me. Does anyone differ??

Michale.....

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_health_care_fact_check;_ylt=Ah200MDUucDfMd1AG71tjZkGw_IE;_ylu=X3oDMTE2YnM3cjhzBHBvcwM0BHNlYwN5bi1yLWItbGVmdARzbGsDLWZhY3RjaGVjazpv

That was South Carolina Rep Joe Wilson. He yelled, "You Lie!" which was completely and utterly uncalled for. But, I am constrained to point out (as ya'all knew I would) that it's on par with how Democrats treated Bush, so.... cest la' vie'....

But, I axe ya...

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/ap/20090910/capt.3f095c0b499a4d069c1deef318dfb193.obama_health_care_heckling_cap138.jpg?x=252&y=345&q=85&sig=NxWK8rltTLIPBpWPvuG3YQ--

Doesn't he look like Corbin Bernsen?? :D

As to the speech itself, I read the transcript and I must admit, it all sounds pretty good.

Obama did draw one "bright line in the sand". He said that any new health care legislation must not add to the deficit. He said this 3 or 4 times so that is as bright a line as could be. A "Read My Lips" moment, to be sure.

Time will tell if that line suffers the same fate..

It also seems that those on the Left did not get the message they wanted.

All in all, the speech could have been written by the GOP. It threw plenty of bones to the Right, but the Left didn't get much. Granted, the Left's position can be summed up in one word. "Government Run Insurance". (OK, 3-words)

Was the speech a "game changer"? I don't think so. I think the odds of SOME sort of package making it to Obama's desk has gone up. From 60-40 Against to 60-40 For. It'll probably still be DunselCare, but at least Obama can portray it as a "WIN"..

It will be interesting to see how Democrats pick up the ball from here... Will they embrace the spirit of bi-partisanship that Obama espoused? Or will the fall back into the partisan morass of bigotry and bickering.

David,

One thought: I wonder why no one ever uses the military as an example of government that works.

Simple. The US Military is not a "business". It's motivations are far far different from a business. It's not worried about profits or becoming self-sustaining.

Obama made clear that any government run option MUST be self-sustaining. If you look at any other government run business, you will realize what a high bar that actually is.

And it's that reason (amongst many others) why we will never have a government run healthcare for the general population.

Michale.....

I also thought his framing was solid. When he's on his game, no one does it better.

One thought: I wonder why no one ever uses the military as an example of government that works.

Conservatives always say we have the best military in the world, but somehow they seem to forget that this is big bad government.

-David