Comments on: How Democrats Need To Frame The Healthcare Debate http://www.chrisweigant.com/2009/08/10/how-democrats-need-to-frame-the-healthcare-debate-2/ Reality-based political commentary Tue, 09 Jun 2026 05:31:16 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: Chris Weigant http://www.chrisweigant.com/2009/08/10/how-democrats-need-to-frame-the-healthcare-debate-2/#comment-5689 Chris Weigant Thu, 20 Aug 2009 23:10:12 +0000 http://www.chrisweigant.com/index.php/2009/08/10/how-democrats-need-to-frame-the-healthcare-debate-2/#comment-5689 Dorkfish - Ah, but who picks up the tab if patients are uninsured and show up at an emergency room unable to pay? The answer, no matter how it is sliced, is "all of us." Either the insurance companies subsidize this in part, or the hospital subsidizes it in part, or it is reimbursed through direct or indirect payments from government (all our taxes). One way or another, the cost is spread around until it reaches almost everyone. Insurance likes to claim that Medicare is underpays doctors, but this misses a key argument. Underpays by whose price? If I have insurance, walk into a hospital, and get an operation, my insurer may have bargained for a rate of $7,000 for that operation, since they pay for so many of them a year they can afford to bargain. Medicare maybe pays $6,300 for the operation. But if I am uninsured and walk into the SAME hospital, get the SAME operation by the SAME doctor, they will charge me something like $10,000 (or maybe $20,000, who knows?). Those with the least ability to pay get hit with the highest costs. That is the free market, and either leads to me not being able to pay the 10 grand and declare bankruptcy (see previous note on who winds up paying for this ultimately), or me paying a LOT more than either Medicare or insurance pays -- FOR THE SAME THING. Is that really fair, I ask you? Or is that discrimination? -CW Dorkfish -

Ah, but who picks up the tab if patients are uninsured and show up at an emergency room unable to pay?

The answer, no matter how it is sliced, is "all of us." Either the insurance companies subsidize this in part, or the hospital subsidizes it in part, or it is reimbursed through direct or indirect payments from government (all our taxes). One way or another, the cost is spread around until it reaches almost everyone.

Insurance likes to claim that Medicare is underpays doctors, but this misses a key argument. Underpays by whose price? If I have insurance, walk into a hospital, and get an operation, my insurer may have bargained for a rate of $7,000 for that operation, since they pay for so many of them a year they can afford to bargain. Medicare maybe pays $6,300 for the operation. But if I am uninsured and walk into the SAME hospital, get the SAME operation by the SAME doctor, they will charge me something like $10,000 (or maybe $20,000, who knows?). Those with the least ability to pay get hit with the highest costs. That is the free market, and either leads to me not being able to pay the 10 grand and declare bankruptcy (see previous note on who winds up paying for this ultimately), or me paying a LOT more than either Medicare or insurance pays -- FOR THE SAME THING. Is that really fair, I ask you? Or is that discrimination?

-CW

]]> By: Dorkfish http://www.chrisweigant.com/2009/08/10/how-democrats-need-to-frame-the-healthcare-debate-2/#comment-5629 Dorkfish Tue, 11 Aug 2009 14:45:37 +0000 http://www.chrisweigant.com/index.php/2009/08/10/how-democrats-need-to-frame-the-healthcare-debate-2/#comment-5629 The basic premise is that somehow if you have insurance through the government that you won't face bankruptcy? The fact is that we don't have to imagine what government healthcare looks like, we already have it in the form of Medicare. The simply reality is that of ALL the major medical plans out there, Medicare has by FAR the most coverage holes. You chance of a coverage gap or denied care are much higher. In addition to that, the number of doctors that can afford to take medicare payments (the one's Obama wants to reduce further) is shrinking fast. The end result is that we ALREADY have doctors refusing to see, or are limiting Medicare patients. As a side note, where do you think that the decrease Medicare payments are subsidised? Private insurers pick up that slack. While the idea is noble, the cost remains the issue and thus far, there is nothing coming out of Washington that trully (from an insurance standpoint) address' this issue. A simple solution to your concern Chris, is legislation that protects the public from creditors in the event of major illness. In today's medicare world, you may not face banruptcy, you just don't get all the treatment options that are available. Sadly, most Medicare patients are not aware of this. As Michale so put, I am not against reform, but the government running insurance, for which it has a track record far worse than private insurance companies, just doesn't fly. The basic premise is that somehow if you have insurance through the government that you won't face bankruptcy? The fact is that we don't have to imagine what government healthcare looks like, we already have it in the form of Medicare. The simply reality is that of ALL the major medical plans out there, Medicare has by FAR the most coverage holes. You chance of a coverage gap or denied care are much higher. In addition to that, the number of doctors that can afford to take medicare payments (the one's Obama wants to reduce further) is shrinking fast. The end result is that we ALREADY have doctors refusing to see, or are limiting Medicare patients. As a side note, where do you think that the decrease Medicare payments are subsidised? Private insurers pick up that slack. While the idea is noble, the cost remains the issue and thus far, there is nothing coming out of Washington that trully (from an insurance standpoint) address' this issue.
A simple solution to your concern Chris, is legislation that protects the public from creditors in the event of major illness. In today's medicare world, you may not face banruptcy, you just don't get all the treatment options that are available. Sadly, most Medicare patients are not aware of this. As Michale so put, I am not against reform, but the government running insurance, for which it has a track record far worse than private insurance companies, just doesn't fly.

]]> By: Michale http://www.chrisweigant.com/2009/08/10/how-democrats-need-to-frame-the-healthcare-debate-2/#comment-5628 Michale Tue, 11 Aug 2009 10:49:19 +0000 http://www.chrisweigant.com/index.php/2009/08/10/how-democrats-need-to-frame-the-healthcare-debate-2/#comment-5628 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/arianna-huffington/is-health-care-reform-abo_b_256127.html Very well said here.... Michale..... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/arianna-huffington/is-health-care-reform-abo_b_256127.html

Very well said here....

Michale.....

]]> By: Michale http://www.chrisweigant.com/2009/08/10/how-democrats-need-to-frame-the-healthcare-debate-2/#comment-5627 Michale Tue, 11 Aug 2009 10:32:00 +0000 http://www.chrisweigant.com/index.php/2009/08/10/how-democrats-need-to-frame-the-healthcare-debate-2/#comment-5627 Actually, Dave that's not entirely accurate. The more apt description, under Democrats and ObamaCare, is that "You Pay The Government" but then the government decides that you don't really need the treatment because A> Yer going to die eventually anyways and/or 2> There are people who need the treatment more than you do. And then the government will keep your money and charge you even MORE for daring to pay for a treatment that said government decides you don't really need. Welcome to ObamaCare. Regardless, Democrats are on record as saying that the Single Payer program is on the chopping block anyways. No one is denying that HealthCare needs reform. Yet no one, not one single person, can show how ObamaCare = Reform. Strange that, eh? Michale...... Actually, Dave that's not entirely accurate.

The more apt description, under Democrats and ObamaCare, is that "You Pay The Government" but then the government decides that you don't really need the treatment because A> Yer going to die eventually anyways and/or 2> There are people who need the treatment more than you do.

And then the government will keep your money and charge you even MORE for daring to pay for a treatment that said government decides you don't really need.

Welcome to ObamaCare.

Regardless, Democrats are on record as saying that the Single Payer program is on the chopping block anyways.

No one is denying that HealthCare needs reform.

Yet no one, not one single person, can show how ObamaCare = Reform.

Strange that, eh?

Michale......

]]> By: akadjian http://www.chrisweigant.com/2009/08/10/how-democrats-need-to-frame-the-healthcare-debate-2/#comment-5626 akadjian Mon, 10 Aug 2009 20:35:18 +0000 http://www.chrisweigant.com/index.php/2009/08/10/how-democrats-need-to-frame-the-healthcare-debate-2/#comment-5626 My favorite visual so far: Why the Public Option Sucks! http://www.farleftside.com/2009/8-3-09.gif My favorite visual so far: Why the Public Option Sucks!

http://www.farleftside.com/2009/8-3-09.gif

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